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Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg
Hand of The King TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
6
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:34:33 -
[1] - Quote
So as a miner I have often looked at a roid.
And as a Miner I have often been part of a mining operation. And the worst thing about it is how the current iteration of mining lasers fight against those very core values.
What I want to propose is a difference in how mining lasers Work. Which also changes how reprocessing works
There is no difference in yield at all. The yield will be the same over the same amount of time. Maybe higher due to elimination of player error.
Basically what I propose with this Document https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11gJCRtHq_bZr0K60zViMQFt6b_ocGVcQvOeckQV71CA/edit?usp=sharing
Is to reduce the duration of all mining lasers to 1 sec. And then compensate across the board that way.
Do check out. Give comments etc. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3557
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:37:51 -
[2] - Quote
but... all mining lasers already mine by the second....
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
713
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:42:12 -
[3] - Quote
I don't think you understand how your mining lasers work...
If you shut off a mining laser early it gives you the amount it mined in that time, which means you can already manually do this ,or something approximating it. This just massively increases load on the server, takes away some of CCP's ability to fine-tune mining because everything is now on a one-second interval (meaning you're getting into fractions of an m3 for base values), and making mining ever so slightly less thought intensive and interactive because you no longer need to figure out when to shut off your lasers to get the last little bit of that rock in the most efficient way possible... |
Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg
Hand of The King TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
6
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:43:08 -
[4] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but... all mining lasers already mine by the second....
Yes and no. What I propose removes the ohh there was 2 m3 left in roid but I spent 180 s mining it.
Or the 2 people mining same roid. 1 person gets done 3 sec and removes the roid which Means other guy gets 0.
By reducing the duration of the cycle to 1 sec. and reducing the yield to compensate mining becomes an much smoother and realistic scenario.
Also it is less annoying.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3558
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Posted - 2017.01.24 21:46:59 -
[5] - Quote
ooooooooh so this just takes away any amount of needed player interaction that was left got it
BLOPS Hauler
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Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg
Hand of The King TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
6
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Posted - 2017.01.24 22:09:54 -
[6] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:ooooooooh so this just takes away any amount of needed player interaction that was left got it There was none anyway.
This just streamlines and makes mining smoother and less unrealistic.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3713
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Posted - 2017.01.24 22:23:36 -
[7] - Quote
This means the client communicating with the server a hundred times more than it does now... Or we can have the client communicate with the server once or twice every 120 seconds or when the button is clicked, whichever happens first.
On top of that, the nature of rocks and their volume, this properly fucks up mining yields.
This can only have adverse affects on server load and yield. So when it can only benefit lazy people, im gonna say no. In true care bear fashion (just like wanting mining speed bonuses instead of yield bonuses) you are screwing yourself AND everyone else by wanting to be lazy and stupid.
So bad. So stupid.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg
Hand of The King TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
6
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Posted - 2017.01.24 22:54:34 -
[8] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:This means the client communicating with the server a hundred times more than it does now... Or we can have the client communicate with the server once or twice every 120 seconds or when the button is clicked, whichever happens first.
On top of that, the nature of rocks and their volume, this properly fucks up mining yields.
This can only have adverse affects on server load and yield. So when it can only benefit lazy people, im gonna say no. In true care bear fashion (just like wanting mining speed bonuses instead of yield bonuses) you are screwing yourself AND everyone else by wanting to be lazy and stupid.
So bad. So stupid.
Why all the personal attacks.
I agree did not forsee that with 1 sec duration the calls to server would be dramtically higher. This is a valid argument against my proposal.
Now if this could be made less problematic. Or would not have a massive problem towards to overall calls. Is the any argument to be made against this system without namecalling others?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3558
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Posted - 2017.01.24 23:10:10 -
[9] - Quote
Yes biggest issue is this system tales away the reward of large groups of miners working and coordinating to ensure no rocks are over mind. It removes all point in a scanner meaning you can now fully tank your ship with less yield penalty. You can no go fully afk knowing you won't be wasting crystal hp or target any rock at random knowing there is no risk of over mining.
Just because you can put 0 effort into mining in the current system does not mean those who do put in the effort are not rewarded
BLOPS Hauler
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Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg
Hand of The King TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
6
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Posted - 2017.01.24 23:42:45 -
[10] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Yes biggest issue is this system tales away the reward of large groups of miners working and coordinating to ensure no rocks are over mind. It removes all point in a scanner meaning you can now fully tank your ship with less yield penalty. You can no go fully afk knowing you won't be wasting crystal hp or target any rock at random knowing there is no risk of over mining.
Just because you can put 0 effort into mining in the current system does not mean those who do put in the effort are not rewarded
Valid argument and take my hat of for that.
Depends entirely on the content you are mining of cause. While it detracts ffrom a strategic point of view. It is a system I feel wrong personally.
When I look at the scenario I see stuff happening due to game-mechanics and not due to a Space simulator. The strip miner or miner is a laser and a tractor beam in one. (else ores would just fly away from the roid the instant it got split from it.) Then it makes no sense that lets say you are mining a roid and some other guy (not on your team) mines the same. If he finishes it off first you get nothing due to game mechanics where as you would in a realistic sense of the way at least get some of it. Due to your laser having mined some of it.
On top of that Mining an astroind that has less than what you would spend time getting. Makes no sense at all your laser keeps hitting the roid but technically you are hitting Space, but due to game mechanics the roid has no dissapered.
My main reason for wanting the system to change is due to realisme and smooth sailing.
p.s. ice mining is basically this system except you get 1 ice every 360 sec instead of 10000 ice every 360 sec (in which when reprocessed gives the same amount 1 ice would.) |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3558
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Posted - 2017.01.24 23:52:46 -
[11] - Quote
Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Yes biggest issue is this system tales away the reward of large groups of miners working and coordinating to ensure no rocks are over mind. It removes all point in a scanner meaning you can now fully tank your ship with less yield penalty. You can no go fully afk knowing you won't be wasting crystal hp or target any rock at random knowing there is no risk of over mining.
Just because you can put 0 effort into mining in the current system does not mean those who do put in the effort are not rewarded Valid argument and take my hat of for that. Depends entirely on the content you are mining of cause. While it detracts ffrom a strategic point of view. It is a system I feel wrong personally. When I look at the scenario I see stuff happening due to game-mechanics and not due to a Space simulator.
ah now i see your issue
eve is not meant at all to be a simulator if you want that look at a game like elite
EVE is very much an arcade sandbox and as such gameplay trumps realism.
in this case it is good gameplay to give more reward to those who put in more effort
BLOPS Hauler
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1579
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Posted - 2017.01.25 01:08:35 -
[12] - Quote
Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg wrote:...Or the 2 people mining same roid. 1 person gets done 3 sec and removes the roid which Means other guy gets 0....
Congratulations everyone, someone figured out the pvp part of mining.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3713
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Posted - 2017.01.25 01:12:31 -
[13] - Quote
It's because of this:
Before barges had mining time bonuses they had yield bonuses. When people argued for mining time bonuses over yield bonus it was because of two reasons;
1- it makes afk mining less wasteful. 2- it makes multi boxing hulk less wasteful/easier.
Anyone who wasn't an afk miner or tried to multi box with too many hulks got no benefit from that change. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. In fact, they lost yield because of how ore volume works with mining yields, and their barges lost cap life time. I really don't feel that's fair. I think attentive miners should be rewarded over lazy. And i really don't think we should cater to multi-boxers. This is a game where multi boxing is allowed, not a game FOR multiboxers.
So anyways, your idea is an extreme version of mining time bonuses, which ONLY benefits people who either aren't paying attention or are multi boxing. Everyone else loses yield. So yeah, stop it already!
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
276
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Posted - 2017.01.25 04:26:06 -
[14] - Quote
I used to be a full time miner, now im just a paper pusher and manufacturer.
But this idea is garbage, it will enable AFK play even more. And the argument of someone busting your rock.....well pay attention, pull your laser, have a survey scanner............
and quit being lazy, miners like you are the reason a lot of people despise miners.
-10 for this idea
PS: If you are going to play the game, then PLAY the game or go find a different game to occupy your time. |
Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46690
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Posted - 2017.01.25 06:13:03 -
[15] - Quote
Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg wrote:This just streamlines and makes mining smoother and less unrealistic.
Less unrealistic?
What is realistic mining of asteroids in space? |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
391
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Posted - 2017.01.25 07:17:15 -
[16] - Quote
Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but... all mining lasers already mine by the second.... Yes and no. What I propose removes the ohh there was 2 m3 left in roid but I spent 180 s mining it. Or the 2 people mining same roid. 1 person gets done 3 sec and removes the roid which Means other guy gets 0. By reducing the duration of the cycle to 1 sec. and reducing the yield to compensate mining becomes an much smoother and realistic scenario. Also it is less annoying.
No, because every second that the laser has to account for, a package has to be sent to ccp servers. while im a miner too I under stand this brings problems with the new much larger amount of data that would have to come from every player and clog the server. PVE/PVP types have been wanting DOTS and damage per sec for weapons. the amount of pings needed would be akin to DDOSing our own servers just to play and im assuming you would like to play the game but you know what assuming makes you.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg
Hand of The King TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
6
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Posted - 2017.01.25 07:20:46 -
[17] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote: So anyways, your idea is an extreme version of mining time bonuses, which ONLY benefits people who either aren't paying attention or are multi boxing. Everyone else loses yield. So yeah, stop it already!
If you bothered actually looking past initial Words, you would see that in which I propose this idea, the yield would be the same no one would lose anything.
Apart from Lugh Crow-Slave no one have had a proper argument as to why my system is perhaps not good.
Either you point towards issues my sytem is already preventing or simply going for namecalling as uncivilised men/woman.
Also I fail to see the problem with making mining less wasteful.
Agondray wrote:Sophie Mcgalien Hoeeg wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:but... all mining lasers already mine by the second.... Yes and no. What I propose removes the ohh there was 2 m3 left in roid but I spent 180 s mining it. Or the 2 people mining same roid. 1 person gets done 3 sec and removes the roid which Means other guy gets 0. By reducing the duration of the cycle to 1 sec. and reducing the yield to compensate mining becomes an much smoother and realistic scenario. Also it is less annoying. No, because every second that the laser has to account for, a package has to be sent to ccp servers. while im a miner too I under stand this brings problems with the new much larger amount of data that would have to come from every player and clog the server. PVE/PVP types have been wanting DOTS and damage per sec for weapons. the amount of pings needed would be akin to DDOSing our own servers just to play and im assuming you would like to play the game but you know what assuming makes you.
Valid argument. Server problems make this idea very hard indeed. |
Mala Zvitorepka
A.I.R.
4
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Posted - 2017.01.25 09:48:12 -
[18] - Quote
Well, you can already point 2 strip miners at 2 different roids (with drones at the third) and the worst that could happen is a waste of 2-3 minutes (and on average half of that), which isn't meaningful amount of time lost, especially for completely afk play. If you select good rocks from the start (need scanner), you will end up with full cargo before they are gone (on procurer).
Nah, mining could do with a more active gameplay redesign. |
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
143
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Posted - 2017.01.25 10:08:54 -
[19] - Quote
.... Survey scanner user master race ?
In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen :
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
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