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Patrice Macmahon
No Vacancies No Vacancies.
42
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Posted - 2017.01.27 18:55:51 -
[31] - Quote
Inir Ishtori wrote:Patrice Macmahon wrote:
Javelin Rails with two tracking computers and Muraders V out DPS's a Blaster Null Kronos at 25km. You can check the EFT dps graph to confirm numbers. Standard Antimater Rails out DPS's the Javelin Rails at 60km.
Well, I had to download Pyfa to confirm my own EFT numbers and *my* numbers disagree with yours quite substancially, probably because you used a slightly gimped blaster fitting - ie only 3 mag stabs. Please compare your DPS at range against this one: [Kronos, blaster pimp fit null] Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Domination 500MN Microwarpdrive Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L Bastion Module I [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II Warden II x2 Hobgoblin II x5 Salvage Drone I x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Cap Booster 800 x15 I also usually used level 5 implants for large hybrid turret damage, ROF and falloff if that is of any relevance. I also ran exact same fitting with rails and see no real point in fitting less than 4 mag stabs.
I'll dive into these numbers when I get home. We are taking falloff losses into account. I may have misspoke when I said null, but I may mean void. Even then, the rail kronos out DPS the blaster kronos in all scenarios where mag stabs are equal - at 35K or more. 25K may have been the void marker.
Spot positioning is something I may have to experiment with, but that still means you are dependent upon positioning, full pocket agro, and waiting for rats to come within 45km to deal decent damage as you blap the closer targets. It's the removal of the need to position that speeds up mission times. In either case, the raw DPS from guns in ideal conditions, is a difference of somewhere around 150-200 DPS when comparing Javelin to Null, but its the fighting in falloff where the Blaster fit starts loosing out quickly.
I'll give it another round.
Are you really running a 4th mag stab? even then the damage and falloff equilizers at range will be the same difference, the change will be that both numbers go up approximately the same amount, especially at 5x stacking penalties (Rigs, + 4 Mag stabs). That heavy into stacking penalties and you might find something different to speed up mission times (Like an nano, or low slot scan booster)
But I'll take another look.
-á"Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."-á
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Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
93
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Posted - 2017.01.27 19:15:32 -
[32] - Quote
This is what both Pyfa an EFT show me with all skills at level 5:
http://imgur.com/a/D3P65
Upper line is a blaster Kronois, lower is a rail one. |
hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2017.01.27 20:34:40 -
[33] - Quote
Inir Ishtori wrote: You can also just aggro the entire pocket while you MWD/MJD to the most convenient spot. The premier example is Angel Pirate Invasion, where you don't even usually have to move at all and can fit 3rd TC instead of a prop mod. 2-3 ships can get stuck on geometry though and you might have to MJD just at 0-5 km on them. First pocket of The Assault (Serpentis) is similar.
Yes I know you can. Though even then if the aggressed spawn is very far it takes time for them to get to you. But even this is not a problem. To me the problem is many spawns appearing in different places, like in the Blockade or in Going Berserk. Yes it is possible to chase them all around the grid. I just found that the extra performance gain is not worth all the fuss.
Quote:Quote:Quote: - Faction AM ammo costs a lot more than Null or Void.
This argument is null and void, pun intended. First off, this cost is not that higher, if at all. And secondly it is quickly recouped esp. considering ammo conservation bonus of Marauders. Well I checked the prices over Eve Market yesterday, faction AM is 4 times as expensive as Null, seems quite substancial. If you do not go for (mostly) full clears, less so - that we can agree on. I consider only full clears. I don't blitz missions.
You need antimatter for cases which call for extra tracking or for the midrange between Null and Void (and Void is very situational due to range and tracking penalty).
I don't know how much currently Faction AM costs. 1k ISK? That makes 5 mil for a 5k batch. Which will suffice for at least 10 missions which on average should net you 100 mil ISK. Even if Faction AM was total waste of ISK that would mean you made 95 instead of 100 in that evening. My claim is that when you shoot Faction AM, in the same time you should be able to do maybe 11 missions, worth maybe 110 mil. This is the cost recouping I have been talking about. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5227
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Posted - 2017.01.27 20:53:32 -
[34] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:I consider only full clears. I don't blitz missions. Oh you will... just wait.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Patrice Macmahon
No Vacancies No Vacancies.
42
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Posted - 2017.01.27 20:59:32 -
[35] - Quote
Inir Ishtori wrote:This is what both Pyfa an EFT show me with all skills at level 5: http://imgur.com/a/D3P65 Upper line is a blaster Kronois, lower is a rail one.
*Noted*
Using your fit with only the gun and ammo swaps. Added in the two 5% damage mod and the 5% falloff bonus implants, since we are doing optimal theory crafting.
1) That's a pretty huge discrepancy between pyfa and EFT. - I confirmed your numbers on PYFA. I assume the latest version of EFT has not been properly updated in quite some time then, or it's calculations are off?
The Void VS Javelin overtake happens at 23km The Null VS Javelin overtake happens at 42km The Null VS Antimatter overtake happens at 53km Antimatter VS Javelin Overtake happens at 64km - with DPS hovering around 800 at 95km or so.
For the Rail Fit - Antimatter overtakes the Javelin at 63-ish km, still pushes 800 DPS out to 90Km (This is where the efficiency comes in)
The Null Fit does 14% more damage in the primary engagement bubble (out to 45km) compared to a Javelin fit. If rats are on you within VOID range, DPS is up 39%, but it can be argued that you didn't shoot things out fast enough inside the original engagement bubble (Unless you MJD'ed to zero).
This engagement bubble has to be reached with MJD and slowboating. So efficiency wise it comes down to optimal positioning to allow that 14% improvement to have an impact. During a 20 minute period, compared to a javelin fit - under optimal conditions you will save two minutes and thirty seconds. Gate transversal requires slow boating / MJD'ing, or both. An AB or MWD fit Kronos can simply burn the gate while shooting.
So my to question to reach an answer is this: how much time do you spend during that twenty minutes MJD'ing and slow boating to get into position and to gates?
A note on the tank:
2) I am personally balking at the two slot tank on the ship. I take it this is for only blitzing Thermal / kinetic missions? Rather than full clears? On a worried note - The explosive hole leaves you a viable target for gankers - as 4 navy mag stabs makes the ship a loot pi+¦ata. It's a good fit, but makes me nervous, and makes the ship less Omni capable for all missions.
-á"Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."-á
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2509
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Posted - 2017.01.27 21:03:29 -
[36] - Quote
Neutrons with 4 magstabs and a t2 rof rig cycle in 3.9s according to eft I'm just going to be lazy and round that to 4s, so that is one round every second or 3600 rounds/hour. at the current price of 1018.94 isk that is 3.668m/hour in ammo assuming you sat there and shot your guns continuously for a whole hour (which is a pretty ridiculous assumption). With plain t1 ammo its around 600k/hr, the difference is ~3m/hr. The +15% damage should allow you to easily kill an extra 3m/hr and easily pay for itself.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5227
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Posted - 2017.01.27 21:05:32 -
[37] - Quote
Guys, if you can afford the Marauder - the least of your concerns should be the cost of proper ammunition... Chainsaw is right - the extra DPS easily pays for itself over time.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2017.01.28 21:13:16 -
[38] - Quote
Patrice Macmahon wrote: So my to question to reach an answer is this: how much time do you spend during that twenty minutes MJD'ing / MWD'ing in burning into range and then back onto position and to gates? If you are shooting rats outside of 42km, then you are a significant disadvantage (lower DPS) than a rail fit.
Everything depends on which mission you do. In some you only MJD or MWD once at the last stage for 20 seconds to get in a good spot, in gateless missions also maybe once or twice. In others there is a bit more work to be done, including refitting between the propulsion mods. You usually still can shoot things while flying around most of the time.
Quote: A note on the tank:
2) I am personally balking at the two slot tank on the ship. I take it this is for only blitzing Thermal / kinetic missions? Rather than full clears? On a worried note - The explosive hole leaves you a viable target for gankers - as 4 navy mag stabs makes the ship a loot pi+¦ata. It's a good fit, but makes me nervous, and makes the ship less Omni capable for all missions.
I stated previosly that I flew my Kronos in Gallente space against predominatly Serpentis, Angels and Guristas. If you fight against Angels, you fit an explosive hardener. For everything else EANM seems fine. All I can say is that it worked for me, even though sometimes overheating was necessary, ie for full stage aggro in Worlds Collide pockets.
As for gankers... Staying away from premier ganking spots helps, I guess. People also have been fitting a lot more bling on less EHP all these years and were doing mostly fine(other than when sitting afk on a gate etc). Just use some common sense and pay a bit of attention to the game, I'd say. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5240
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Posted - 2017.01.30 17:17:53 -
[39] - Quote
The only thing that sucks with rails is that they do very poorly against anything (including frigates) under 25km and basically cannot hit anything under 10km unless you switch out to tracking speed. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Kronos. I'm sure there's and ideal fit - I just haven't happened upon it yet...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2017.01.30 21:30:11 -
[40] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:The only thing that sucks with rails is that they do very poorly against anything (including frigates) under 25km and basically cannot hit anything under 10km unless you switch out to tracking speed. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Kronos. I'm sure there's and ideal fit - I just haven't happened upon it yet... Web. I haven't found better solution. The good news is having slot for that is easy on Kronos. |
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5243
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Posted - 2017.01.30 22:03:03 -
[41] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Web. I haven't found better solution. The good news is having slot for that is easy on Kronos. Yes, you can run a stasis web. That still won't let you hit frigates and seems a bit of a waste just to be able to hit the occasional cruiser that ventures too close.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5243
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Posted - 2017.01.30 23:41:01 -
[42] - Quote
I'm back on the blasters bandwagon for the Kronos. There are just too few missions where you need an 80km+ weapon and quite a few more where you need to be able to easily hit cruiser size targets at ranges less than 25km. Switching to 350mm rails helps, but then you might as well be running blasters anyway with the DPS drop. With three range-scripted tracking computers you can easily hit out to 76km, which is more than enough for insta-blapping frigates and destroyers. 40-60km seems to be the 'sweet' spot for blasters when using Null. Void is excellent against those persistent enemies as well as those NPCs that like to close to point-blank range.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5243
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Posted - 2017.01.30 23:50:25 -
[43] - Quote
Double post.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Patrice Macmahon
No Vacancies No Vacancies.
42
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Posted - 2017.01.31 15:08:30 -
[44] - Quote
Did LOT of shooting this weekend...
Rails are significantly safer, and you are much less likely to agro the full room due to positioning. Blaster Kronos can shoot out a full room of agro fairly quickly, but you are burning through cap boosters to keep the tank on in certain rooms. I also found I was having to leave the bastion Module off to control range and get DPS consistantly higher than what I was getting off a Javelin Rail fit.
So unfortunately it comes down to role.
Full Room Clears and Safety - Rail Kronos with MWD.
Blitzing and Damn the Cap Boosters - Blasters. - But at this point why are you not running a Vindicator?
-á"Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."-á
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5249
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Posted - 2017.01.31 17:04:16 -
[45] - Quote
If you run missions often enough you know which NPCs not to trigger. I've never had to run cap boosters on any of my Kronos fits, and I manage just fine with a 2-slot tank (damage control and large armor repairer). In Bastion my Kronos can strike out to 79km, which is usually enough to smite frigates and turrets. If I need to pull 10-15km range that's what the MWD is for. There are only three missions I've found where NPCs will not close distance on you: "Assault", the Guristas in the first room on "Worlds Collide" and "Intercept the Saboteurs". For those missions it's easy enough to swap a tracking computer for a large micro jump drive. I'm not really a fan of any of these missions, so I tend to just skip them wherever possible.
So yes, if you want to MJD out and snipe from afar rails probably suit this style of play best. It's kind of boring, though - and I prefer clearing my missions faster and getting to the next one (and potentially a Burner).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2017.01.31 18:32:46 -
[46] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:hmskrecik wrote:Web. I haven't found better solution. The good news is having slot for that is easy on Kronos. Yes, you can run a stasis web. That still won't let you hit frigates and seems a bit of a waste just to be able to hit the occasional cruiser that ventures too close. Blasters. Maybe on a Vindicator you need the extra range to tank. The Kronos doesn't have that problem. Yesno. It's true that when frigs get under your rails you will not hit them. But let's be honest, when frigs get under your blasters you will not hit them too even with double scripted antimatter. You carry drones for a reason anyway.
The difference is just both the minimal and maximal shooting range, both in terms of ability to hit and in effective DPS. While blasters comfortably destroy stuff as close at 5km, they struggle at 70km. Rails easily project to 120km, maybe even to 150km if I bothered to fit sebo, but under 10-15km they cease to be relevant.
So it's just a matter of situation, what engagement range the mission throws at you, and of the decision, how do you prefer to position yourself.
It's not the question which gun is better or worse. It's the question which playing style enforced by given gun suits you more. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5250
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Posted - 2017.01.31 19:31:34 -
[47] - Quote
I can blap frigates from 20-80km without issue. Once they get below 20km though, that's drone territory. Blasters do not struggle at 5km - so I'm not sure where you get that impression. They can strike out to 40km without much of a DPS penalty and hitting targets at 75km isn't a problem, either (although with a damage reduction).
As I indicated, the vast majority of NPCs will in fact close range to some extent (some even to point-blank range). This is advantageous for blasters and less so for rails (particularly for 425mm rails which have poor tracking characteristics below 25km). Between a range of 40-50km blasters will outperform rails. Beyond that, rails certainly have an advantage. But it has less to do with play styles than the fact that the majority of missions spawn NPCs well under 60km.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
95
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Posted - 2017.01.31 21:38:20 -
[48] - Quote
Patrice Macmahon wrote:
[...]Damn the Cap Boosters - Blasters. - But at this point why are you not running a Vindicator?
For obvious reasons: better damage projection even out of bastion, better tank and cap management, ECM resistance(very important imo), much shorter cooldown on MJD, great range on tractor beams and of course a much larger cargohold for all those cap boosters |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5250
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Posted - 2017.01.31 23:51:14 -
[49] - Quote
Here are the actual numbers. Short of running an Officer fit, with full V skills you'll at best be able to squeeze maybe another 1-2% total DPS out with a fourth Faction magstab. Excluding costs (you almost need to run rails with Federation Navy AM), both blasters and rails do roughly the same damage out to 60km. Keep in-mind that blasters have better tracking, so they will get penetrations, smashes and wrecks more frequently than rails. Also, with a cycle time on the off-chance they do miss it's easily offset. Damage below excludes drone damage.
Kronos Blaster GÇó 4x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L GÇó 3x Faction Magstab, Hybrid Burst Aerator II, +6 implants GÇó 1155 DPS @20km; 1100 DPS @30km; 1050 DPS @40km; 900 DPS @50km; 750 DPS @60km
GÇó 4x Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L GÇó 3x Faction Magstab, Hybrid Burst Aerator II, +6 implants GÇó 1617 DPS @15km; 1400 DPS @20km; 700 DPS @30km .....
Kronos Rail GÇó 4x 425mm Railgun II, Javelin L GÇó 3x Faction Magstab, Hybrid Burst Aerator II, +6 implants GÇó 997 DPS @40km; 950 DPS @50km; 900 DPS @60km; 600 DPS @100km
GÇó 4x 425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy AM (4x cost) GÇó 3x Faction Magstab, Hybrid Burst Aerator II, +6 implants GÇó 982 DPS @60km; 950 DPS @80km; 840 DPS @100km
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5250
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Posted - 2017.02.01 00:02:02 -
[50] - Quote
Some Kronos fitting tips (and indications you're doing it wrong)... GÇó Not running a Faction or Deadspace MWD GÇó Not running at least 2 tracking computers (3 is preferable) GÇó Running capacitor rigs, cap batteries or cap boosters GÇó Running a stasis web, grappler or target painter instead of a 3rd tracking computer GÇó Running any kind of tracking enhancer GÇó More than two armor tank modules, including a large Deadspace armor repairer GÇó Warp speed of less than 4.0 AU/s and align time of less than 8.05s GÇó Less than 1150+ DPS with blasters or 950+ DPS with railguns
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2017.02.01 17:09:40 -
[51] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I can blap frigates from 20-80km without issue. Once they get below 20km though, that's drone territory. Blasters do not struggle at 5km - so I'm not sure where you get that impression. They can strike out to 40km without much of a DPS penalty and hitting targets at 75km isn't a problem, either (although with a damage reduction).
As I indicated, the vast majority of NPCs will in fact close range to some extent (some even to point-blank range). This is advantageous for blasters and less so for rails (particularly for 425mm rails which have poor tracking characteristics below 25km). Between a range of 40-50km blasters will outperform rails. Beyond that, rails certainly have an advantage. But it has less to do with play styles than the fact that the majority of missions spawn NPCs well under 60km. With rails I can blap frigates at 35km and with a luck I can as close as at 20km too, thank you very much.
Regarding struggling I have been talking about the other end. Nulls are great until about 50km, then damage drops. You still can kill battleships at 70-80km but it takes noticeably longer. And no, while you have extra tracking you are in deep falloff so you don't have as many wrecking or penetrating shots.
I'm not reading PYFA/EFT stats. I'm talking about mission completion times. Call me incompetent, but under my command the difference of time when using blasters and rails wasn't very dramatic (but yes, blasters had slight advantage). It wasn't much bigger than that caused by difference due to having spawn variances, landing position variances, different warping times, etc.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Some Kronos fitting tips (and indications you're doing it wrong)... [....] Well, I could stand behind that. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5258
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Posted - 2017.02.01 19:27:57 -
[52] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:With rails I can blap frigates at 35km and with a luck I can as close as at 20km too, thank you very much.
Regarding struggling I have been talking about the other end. Nulls are great until about 50km, then damage drops. You still can kill battleships at 70-80km but it takes noticeably longer. And no, while you have extra tracking you are in deep falloff so you don't have as many wrecking or penetrating shots.
I'm not reading PYFA/EFT stats. I'm talking about mission completion times. Call me incompetent, but under my command the difference of time when using blasters and rails wasn't very dramatic (but yes, blasters had slight advantage). It wasn't much bigger than that caused by difference due to having spawn variances, landing position variances, different warping times, etc. I'm not saying you can't use rails - or that rails aren't effective on the Kronos. What I'm trying to get across is that the majority of missions involve NPC spawns at ranges less than 60km. In addition, on these missions NPCs have a tendency to gravitate towards the player as opposed to moving away. These are conditions advantageous to blasters.
With respect to tracking, what you may not fully appreciate is that you can move and shoot with blasters at relatively high speeds and still enjoy excellent DPS. This is not the case with rails where you must remain basically stationary for the most part.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2017.02.01 20:21:45 -
[53] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: I'm not saying you can't use rails - or that rails aren't effective on the Kronos. What I'm trying to get across is that the majority of missions involve NPC spawns at ranges less than 60km. In addition, on these missions NPCs have a tendency to gravitate towards the player as opposed to moving away. These are conditions advantageous to blasters.
I'm getting the feeling that we both defend the same thesis, just from different angles. Mine is that BOTH rails and blasters are viable guns for running missions with Kronos. Most rat battleships spawn and/or orbit at ranges from 20km to 60km so either choice of gun will work. Which in itself is quite a thing comparing to ACs-or-GTFO-Vargur or Tach-Paladin (I know pulses but IMO they are situational and I can't fly Golem so I can't comment).
Quote: With respect to tracking, what you may not fully appreciate is that you can move and shoot with blasters at relatively high speeds and still enjoy excellent DPS. This is not the case with rails where you must remain basically stationary for the most part.
Well, with rails you can afford not moving at all. One variable less to take care of. This is the main reason it's my weapon of choice. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5259
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Posted - 2017.02.01 20:30:05 -
[54] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:I'm getting the feeling that we both defend the same thesis, just from different angles. Mine is that BOTH rails and blasters are viable guns for running missions with Kronos. Most rat battleships spawn and/or orbit at ranges from 20km to 60km so either choice of gun will work. Which in itself is quite a thing comparing to ACs-or-GTFO-Vargur or Tach-Paladin (I know pulses but IMO they are situational and I can't fly Golem so I can't comment). Quite possibly. I did recently switch over to rails and found that the mission clear times for me dropped. I don't know if it was my skills (all V) or fit, but in the missions I normally run they just seemed underwhelming. Hence why I switched back to blasters and immediately noticed an improvement (particularly with the 'fun' factor).
One minor advantage with blasters is that you can run the cheap Null and Void ammunition. You almost have to run Federation AM with rails.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2017.02.01 21:09:55 -
[55] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I did recently switch over to rails and found that the mission clear times for me dropped. I don't know if it was my skills (all V) or fit, but in the missions I normally run they just seemed underwhelming. Hence why I switched back to blasters and immediately noticed an improvement (particularly with the 'fun' factor).
Out of curiosity, how much dropped for you? To me it was if certain mission took 17-18 minutes with blasters, with rails it was 20-21. But it could vary wildly. A few missions actually took longer with blasters (Gone Berserk if memory serves).
As for the "fun" factor. It's very subjective, personal. I used to enjoy chasing reddies back and forth but then I got tired of having to think in terms of two or three ships to pop ahead.
Quote: One minor advantage with blasters is that you can run the cheap Null and Void ammunition. You almost have to run Federation AM with rails.
I would say that if the cost of ammo is your concern then you are running ship and missions wrong. But I don't think you're running either wrong so I will say that it should not be your concern. :) No, really. Do calculate or measure how many missions can you run on a given batch of ammo, how much money you make out of those missions and then compare this value to the price of said batch. Even if faction AM goes out as the most expensive, which I doubt, it's still peanuts in the grand scheme.
Speaking of, even when I was flying blaster fit Kronos I still used AM a lot. I don't remember exact thresholds but it used to be Null far and AM close. Void only for structures or when I had web or when doing transversal trickery. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5259
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Posted - 2017.02.01 21:51:14 -
[56] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Out of curiosity, how much dropped for you? To me it was if certain mission took 17-18 minutes with blasters, with rails it was 20-21. But it could vary wildly. A few missions actually took longer with blasters (Gone Berserk if memory serves).
As for the "fun" factor. It's very subjective, personal. I used to enjoy chasing reddies back and forth but then I got tired of having to think in terms of two or three ships to pop ahead. Probably not more than a few minutes. I tend to skip over missions like Assault or Worlds Collide that really aren't conducive to blasters. I prefer missions like Spy, Damsel or Beserk. I agree the 'fun' factor is certainly subjective, but I find I'm enjoying guns a lot more than I ever did missiles.
Quote:I would say that if the cost of ammo is your concern then you are running ship and missions wrong. But I don't think you're running either wrong so I will say that it should not be your concern. :) No, really. Do calculate or measure how many missions can you run on a given batch of ammo, how much money you make out of those missions and then compare this value to the price of said batch. Even if faction AM goes out as the most expensive, which I doubt, it's still peanuts in the grand scheme.
Speaking of, even when I was flying blaster fit Kronos I still used AM a lot. I don't remember exact thresholds but it used to be Null far and AM close. Void only for structures or when I had web or when doing transversal trickery. Well, in fairness I did say it was a minor point. Once you move into any Marauder your cost of operation goes down significantly, so you're right in that it's peanuts in the grand scale of things.
I do like only having to run two types of ammunition, though (both cheap). I use Null L almost exclusively, switching to Void L for structures, Federation, Mercenaries and the occasional Angel that ventures too close. I get a lot of use out of my MWD so closing to optimal range for either typically isn't an issue.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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hmskrecik
The Scope Gallente Federation
233
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Posted - 2017.02.01 22:32:49 -
[57] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I tend to skip over missions like Assault or Worlds Collide that really aren't conducive to blasters. I prefer missions like Spy, Damsel or Beserk.
Funny you mentioned Assault and WC because they are one of the best missions, bounty wise. :) And while I would recommend against attempting Assault with blasters, Worlds Collide is quite doable. For entry pocket you need a propulsion anyway and subsequent ones are either good or acceptable, in terms of rats distance.
Quote: I do like only having to run two types of ammunition, though (both cheap). I use Null L almost exclusively, switching to Void L for structures, Federation, Mercenaries and the occasional Angel that ventures too close. I get a lot of use out of my MWD so closing to optimal range for either typically isn't an issue.
Fair enough. Whether to shoot with Void or AM up close is just a personal preference. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5259
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Posted - 2017.02.01 22:36:05 -
[58] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Funny you mentioned Assault and WC because they are one of the best missions, bounty wise. :) And while I would recommend against attempting Assault with blasters, Worlds Collide is quite doable. For entry pocket you need a propulsion anyway and subsequent ones are either good or acceptable, in terms of rats distance. Yes, there are definitely good bounties to be had. But I just find it takes too long to run. My end goal is the "Enemy" series where you can snag upwards of 200-million.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2017.02.02 01:10:48 -
[59] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Some Kronos fitting tips (and indications you're doing it wrong)... GÇó Not running a Faction or Deadspace MWD GÇó Not running at least 2 tracking computers (3 is preferable) GÇó Running capacitor rigs, cap batteries, cap boosters or a cap stable fit GÇó Running a stasis web, grappler or target painter instead of a 3rd tracking computer GÇó Running any kind of tracking enhancer GÇó Running more than three armor tank modules, including a large Deadspace armor repairer GÇó Warp speed of less than 4.0 AU/s and align time of less than 8.05s GÇó Less than 1150+ DPS with blasters or 950+ DPS with railguns
These tips are somewhat strange.
So you don't fit a TE and maybe just fit only 3 Magstabs as hinted in a post above, but go with 3 TC. Now you get worse damage and damage projection than the fit I suggested - and need to pay attention to the capacitor on top of that.
Now you want great warp speed AND shorter align time. Unless you go for an Ascendacy set you'll have to drop Burst Aerator rig, which is quite a DPS loss, and fit some agility mod in the lows.
Therefore I wonder: what does your Kronos fit looks like? |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5259
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Posted - 2017.02.02 02:09:53 -
[60] - Quote
* 4x Neutron Blaster Cannon II * Gist X-Type 500MN MWD * 3x Tracking Computer II, optimal range script * 3x Faction Magnetic Field Stabilizers * Damage Control II * 2x Intertial Stabilizer II * Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer * T2 Aerator Rig, T2 Hyperspacial Rig * High-Grade Ascendancy 1-4, Migrade Ascendancy 5, WS-816 * Ogdin, EM-805, +6 gunnery implants
V skills on everything. I could get about 1-2% more DPS with a 4th mag stab, but I prefer another 1.5s off my align times. Just over 8s to align and a warp speed of 4.29 AU/s. I've yet to run out of capacitor and I don't have to really close attention to it. I can actually shield tank quite a few missions...
If we're comparing this to your fit, I get the same DPS (+6 implants for me) with greater range since I have 3 range-scripted tracking computers (76km in Bastion). So actually more DPS and more maneuverability. But to each their own.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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