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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5791
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:20:43 -
[31] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:No. People should be able to post on whatever character they like. Of course! agendas are so much easier to hide this way! I would hope someone running for the CSM would be able to think a bit deeper on an issue than that. Keep in mind this is someone who is looking to reduce criticism of his agenda, IMO. My agenda is clearly stated in my CSM campaign thread. Why should I care about "reducing the criticism of my agenda". It is all there for everyone to read and judge as they see fit, with ultimately a vote or not.
Right which is why you want to limit people's ability to post....sure, whatever you say.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3641
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:26:33 -
[32] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Right which is why you want to limit people's ability to post....sure, whatever you say.
but only the people HE thinks should have to post under a main anyone else can still use alts
BLOPS Hauler
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46717
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:30:32 -
[33] - Quote
Van Doe wrote:Why do you think sharing personal information on the internet is such a big issue? Move to Saudi Arabia if you like being stalked by authoritys. Sorry, but I don't know in the slightest what you are on about here.
We aren't talking about sharing personal information here.
Borat made a claim, with no further explanation or reasoning, that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guy.
I asked him how that can be justified and now you are on about moving to Saudi Arabia?
The logic in both of those lines of thought is a bit hard to follow.
Quote:The fakt is if anonymity is broken it is way more likely to male decisions based on assumptions. And les likely on facts. Hooray. That's my whole point in this thread. Borat's proposal wants to remove that anonymity. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3641
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:32:29 -
[34] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Why do you think sharing personal information on the internet is such a big issue? Move to Saudi Arabia if you like being stalked by authoritys. Sorry, but I don't know in the slightest what you are on about here. We aren't talking about sharing personal information here. Borat made a claim, with no further explanation or reasoning, that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guy. I asked him how that can be justified and now you are on about moving to Saudi Arabia? The logic in both of those lines of thought is a bit hard to follow.
thats van doe for you.
if it helps van is saying they are against this idea as well and is talking about how important it is to be able to speak anonymously
BLOPS Hauler
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5793
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:51:58 -
[35] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Right which is why you want to limit people's ability to post....sure, whatever you say. but only the people HE thinks should have to post under a main anyone else can still use alts
Yeah, I got that.
WTF is the exact determinant of "well known". I get the feeling it is posters Borat doesn't like.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Van Doe
7
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:55:27 -
[36] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Why do you think sharing personal information on the internet is such a big issue? Move to Saudi Arabia if you like being stalked by authoritys. Sorry, but I don't know in the slightest what you are on about here. We aren't talking about sharing personal information here. Borat made a claim, with no further explanation or reasoning, that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guy. I asked him how that can be justified and now you are on about moving to Saudi Arabia? The logic in both of those lines of thought is a bit hard to follow. Quote:The fakt is if anonymity is broken it is way more likely to male decisions based on assumptions. And les likely on facts. Hooray. That's my whole point in this thread. Borat's proposal wants to remove that anonymity. Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions. You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty. Even a real life simulator would be true in parts. And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy. Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity
I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy.
afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46718
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Posted - 2017.01.29 10:57:47 -
[37] - Quote
Van Doe wrote:Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions. You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty. Even a real life simulator would be true in parts. And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy. Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys?
It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players - or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5793
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:02:18 -
[38] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions. You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty. Even a real life simulator would be true in parts. And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy. Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys? It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them?
Right which is why Anonymous is actually a special group of the Bilderburg Group! No, it is totally true!
[/sacarsm]
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Van Doe
7
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:03:30 -
[39] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions. You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty. Even a real life simulator would be true in parts. And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy. Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys? It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them? Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government.
Try oppose Saudi goverment openly What would you think would happen? Try oppose goon doctrine What would you think would happen?
I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy.
afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46719
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:08:12 -
[40] - Quote
Van Doe wrote:Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government. Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion.
Borat is claiming the opposite. |
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Van Doe
7
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:08:39 -
[41] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions. You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty. Even a real life simulator would be true in parts. And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy. Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys? It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them? Right which is why Anonymous is actually a special group of the Bilderburg Group! No, it is totally true! [/sacarsm] Come on really? You can easily counter Bilderberg by aluminum armor plate. If they really would be anonymous how could it be you know about them?
I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy.
afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
85
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:12:20 -
[42] - Quote
How did I miss that....
Scipio Artelius wrote: ... Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times. ...
sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
85
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:13:43 -
[43] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government. Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion. Borat is claiming the opposite.
Re-read what I posted. You are making false statements.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3645
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:17:12 -
[44] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government. Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion. Borat is claiming the opposite. Re-read what I posted. You are making false statements.
yeah to be fair he is "helping the little guy" by forcing only the ppl he deemes "well known" to post with their main
BLOPS Hauler
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THX 1138c
Minerva's Legion
0
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:19:06 -
[45] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:How did I miss that.... Scipio Artelius wrote: ... Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times. ...
sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician. I confirm everything van doe says is 100% true and accurate. If i like him you all like him |
Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46719
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:19:42 -
[46] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Because anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government. Yes exactly. That's what all of us in this thread, except Borat, have at the heart of our discussion. Borat is claiming the opposite. Re-read what I posted. You are making false statements. You said:
Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.
In post 11 in the thread. That is the opposite of what Van Doe said above that:
anonymity os the only weapon the small guy has fighting the government. |
Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46719
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:20:31 -
[47] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:How did I miss that.... Scipio Artelius wrote: ... Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times. ...
sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician. Nice out of context post. Read the rest of the post, which explains exactly how that statement applies. |
Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
85
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:31:47 -
[48] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: You said:
Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.
Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course.
My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys, they are
1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.
2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46719
|
Posted - 2017.01.29 11:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: You said:
Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.
Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course. My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys, they are 1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys. 2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only. What is your criteria of 'well known'? |
Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
85
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:41:09 -
[50] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: You said:
Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.
Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course. My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys, they are 1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys. 2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only. What is your criteria of 'well known'?
The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less. Like I said I am just suggesting to apply something that CCP has added this year as a CSM candidates requirements to the forum posters.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46719
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:41:56 -
[51] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:[The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less. Which is? |
Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
85
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:44:45 -
[52] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:[The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less. Which is? Sorry, I am not working at CCP. I do not know the details.
Candidate for CSM XII
Check our Minarchist Space Project!
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3645
|
Posted - 2017.01.29 11:45:52 -
[53] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: You said:
Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.
Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course. My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys, they are 1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys. 2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only. What is your criteria of 'well known'?
what's his criteria for little guy?
as some one else stated earlier i would count R&K as a small group. and then we go back to the 'well known' is it well known by everyone in eve or do well know characters inside communities count? i mean there are A LOT of small groups and solo players that are well known in the FW community the WH community the HS community. These people would be made to run with their best know alts if they went for CSM so do thay also give up the right to post with an alt?
what about the little guy in the large groups?
you still haven't really explained why anyone in eve should not be able to freely voice their ideas and opinions w/o fear of repercussions.
what if some one well know in the veldspare trade knew about a trick in getting veldspar that was unbalanced and gave an advantage to those who know about it. He wants to post a suggestion to fix this exploit but is afraid it would alienate him from his business partners and cost him everything if they found out he let the secret slip
BLOPS Hauler
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46719
|
Posted - 2017.01.29 11:46:06 -
[54] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Borat Guereen wrote:[The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less. Which is? Sorry, I am not working at CCP. I do not know the details. And yet you suggest that it be used as a criteria for all players in the forum?
Your joking right? Who's going to police this to make sure all characters that post on the forum aren't alts of some 'well known' character?
When does someone suddently become 'well known' enough that they are no longer entitled to post on characters that they've posted on in the forum for years?
What if all of a sudden, they fade in terms of community awareness? When do they get to use alts again if they need to?
How is this actually going to work in practice, while not infrigning on the issues raised above?
If someone is well known, but fears being doxxed for something they want to post in the forum, are they just supposed to not post in the forum? |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
471
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:51:12 -
[55] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:
1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys.
Just to pick up on this one point. My understanding is that if a CSM posts on an alt that alt will have the CSM tag. I recall this from a post in Market Discussions where a CSM posted on a different character to their "main" and people were asking who this CSM flagged person was.
Otherwise, I'm not sure how practical this proposal is. If you look at people that alt post and divide them into 1. people that are not well known in the community want to hide their identity because they are posting something that might annoy others and 2. the "celebs" (quick shorthand for the rich and famous, CSMs, etc). The second category will always have someone around that they can use to post on their behalf. And if that is true then the proposal can be avoided by group 2 and only affects group 1 who most of the above posters seem to accept that they have a reasonable justification for alt posting.
Personally, I post on my main, in part because I try to keep the conversation polite. |
Van Doe
7
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Posted - 2017.01.29 11:51:41 -
[56] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: You said:
Anonymity always helps the powerful more than it helps the little guys.
Yes I did and I stand by that as a general belief. You have the right to disagree, of course. My propositions are not to remove anonimity for the little guys, they are 1/ if you have an alt that is well known in the community, you should post on the forums with that alt, much like CCP asks CSM candidates to run with their best known alts. If you are a little guy, you do not have well known alt, so this does not apply to little guys. 2/ Offer a minor economic advantage in-game to players that chose to link alts from multiple accounts publicly together, while retaining the capability to keep alts insulated if tehy so chose. Again, it is a choice that everyone can make, and nothing again that would forcefully remove anonymity from the little guys, especialy as it would mostly be a choice for players that have more than one account only. No The forum is part of the game/eve universe.
Don't interfere with it. As I said earlier I need to find out the system this one guy is living in to afk his brain out You may ask why? The only reason for this is because I don't like his point of view on afk cloaker. And I would like to get his tears in my collection. So what kind of benefit would have someone not anonym over the harasser? Dose it complicates my ability to mess with him? Yes it dose. Is this content to figure out who someone is and find his weak spots? Yes it is. Should it be easy? No it should be hard. Since you feel why more satisfied if after a lot of struggle and time invested you achieved your goal.
If your so bad into figure out who someone is Try make it content by making a homepage to search for a toon and link his relations to other toons.
I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy.
afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
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Van Doe
8
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Posted - 2017.01.29 12:45:23 -
[57] - Quote
For example www.toonrelations.com
Search_Van Doe_
Van Doe
Confirmed alts: THX 1138c
Unconfirmed alts: THX 1138b
Possible Location:
90% Jita 5% Rens 5% Dodixie
Profession: 90% Station trader 6% miner 2% pve player 1% hot dropper 1% afk cloaky
Possible agenda Make make hit drops great again
Confirmed agenda Speculating with faction items Trys to raise prices for large armor plates
Good standing to Afk corp Neutral to Neutral corp Bad standing to Care Bear corp
Latest activities Discusses issus in eve forum
If you pull a hp out of your ass you earned my respect. And maybe safe from me hot drop on your shinny ship And if im in a good mood you might get a plex donation
I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy.
afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5795
|
Posted - 2017.01.29 19:24:16 -
[58] - Quote
Van Doe wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Van Doe wrote:Eve is a game based heavily on social interactions. You might as well could say eve is a alternate realty. Even a real life simulator would be true in parts. And if you force people out anonymity with his toon it might have gameplay efects on the game we all enjoy. Same is true how you may face consequences in rl if you are forced out of anonymity And what does any of this have to do with Borat's claim that anonymity benefits the powerful more than the little guys? It's not even clear now what you are on about. Are you in favour of Borat's proposal - to eliminate anonymity from the forums for a small group of players, or are you in favour of all players being able to maintain their anonymity where it suits them? Right which is why Anonymous is actually a special group of the Bilderburg Group! No, it is totally true! [/sacarsm] Come on really? You can easily counter Bilderberg by aluminum armor plate. If they really would be anonymous how could it be you know about them?
Sarcasm.
Quote:remarks that mean the opposite of what they say, made to criticize someone or something in a way that is amusing to others but annoying to the person criticized
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5795
|
Posted - 2017.01.29 19:26:17 -
[59] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:How did I miss that.... Scipio Artelius wrote: ... Using different characters can help lend credibility to an argument at times. ...
sure, much like paying actors to fill a politician;s meeting room and applaud or laugh when prompted help lends credibility to that politician.
Says the guy who admits to creating an alt so he can try to get on the CSM to manipulate game mechanics for his own agenda....but ironically wants to strip anonymity in commenting from others.
Dude you broke my irony and hypocrisy meters wtih that one post. Well done.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5795
|
Posted - 2017.01.29 19:29:48 -
[60] - Quote
Borat Guereen wrote:
The same criteria that CCP chose to apply to CSM candidates, no more, no less. Like I said I am just suggesting to apply something that CCP has added this year as a CSM candidates requirements to the forum posters.
And one of those criteria is "running for the CSM". Ironically, you are running for the CSM with a deliberately created alt for the purpose of protecting your main.
Hmmm...maybe you should be automatically disqualified for the CSM on those grounds.
Post with your main.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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