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Nachshon
Caldari Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:15:00 -
[1]
Many people have pointed out how the local channel is often used for reconnaisance. I know this better than most - I use it ALL THE TIME. The point is, it becomes easy to see pirates and enemies in a system. Systems where pirates are on local will be avoided. Even pilots in cloaked ships appear on local.
I have a way to fix this issue - make local optional. Players wishing to avoid notice may choose not to go on local, and will not appear there.
There is a drawback - a player who is not on local cannot see who IS on local. A pirate could stay off local, and attack unsuspecting players - but he might walk right into a paramilitary fleet with no warning.
Whether you are cloaked or not will make no difference - you could be in a titan, and if you are not on local, nobody will know you are there (unless they turn on the sensors). ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship.
The True Meaning of Freedom |
Ridley Tree
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:30:00 -
[2]
I'm not sure what it is, but something about me just really absolutely loves this idea. ------
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:44:00 -
[3]
local is totally messed up. AT LEAST cloaked ships need to be removed.
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:44:00 -
[4]
People who would be most advantaged by being invisable in local, ie: pirates, gankers, cloakers, etc, would just quickley turn it on, see who's around and turn it back off again, with 30 people in local the chances are no-one would ever spot you unless you name begins with A... errr... like mine
Would just make outpost systems even less defendable from the menace of cloaked combat ships looking for easy ganks imho, i'm sure local will be removed / changed into a constelation wide channel at some point, but right now we don't have the tools to make it workable and ballanced, scanner and probes just aint good enouth. -
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Vincent Gaines
Avis de Captura
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:51:00 -
[5]
remove local completely.
however after putting in constellation sov tools (destroyable sentry guns, hostile gate activation, or something)
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Rikher
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:54:00 -
[6]
Local could be changed to - well, I can't remember how it's called right now... - you know like the trade channel where you'll only see the guys that actually type something. So you could keep a low profile in local and still know how many people are in the system.
Also on the overview should be only the ship names not the player names.
-- 50freefly > one day when I'm filthy rich I am going to officer fit a noobship 50freefly > and go pvping in it |
Ash Vincetti
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.21 21:55:00 -
[7]
"Ok guys, all turn off local now. The scouts on the rear and front please turn your locals on so you can pre-scout anyone who has local active. As soon as you go on system check the main belts and give us a warp-to as soon as you tackle anyone..." ----- /ash :: sig goes here :: |
MrDisposable
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.04.21 22:00:00 -
[8]
well alts kinda shoot that idea in the foot eh?
Plus how do you balance the equation? Pirates/attackers already have the advantage of position, organization, and initiative.... you want for them to have stealth capability aswell eh?
The predominant reason why BoB is and has been ruling this game? They are almost always the attackers. Eve favors attackers enough already. ______________ BoB Alts
"This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!"
"Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve." |
Darius Shakor
Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.04.21 22:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: SiJira local is totally messed up. AT LEAST cloaked ships need to be removed.
Agreed on that as a bare minimum change. ------
Shakor Clan Information Portal |
Vincent Gaines
Avis de Captura
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Posted - 2007.04.21 22:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rikher
Also on the overview should be only the ship names not the player names.
yep.
I've been a proponent of this for a long time, it removes primary calling as a tactic, and instead forces the FC to make tactical decisions on types of ships to engage.
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Trina Polaris
Pwny Express
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Posted - 2007.04.21 22:21:00 -
[11]
Horrible Idea.
This only advantages people who are sitting in a hostiles station system etc. The scanner doesn't tell you whether it is a hostile or friendly ship, let alone if it is currently being piloted.
Given this, people infiltrating a system (say a gang of six) will always have the upper hand because they know their on numbers and what ships they are flying. If they go into an outpost system, they can assume any other ship is hostile. On the flip side, residents of the system won't ever know they have arrived and won't know that the ships they see on scanner are hostile.
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Lenaria
Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2007.04.21 23:40:00 -
[12]
That will make low-sec completely empty. Pirates will not find one single target to shot there. This will also make 0.0 system much less populated and much more boring due to absolutely needed of gate camp on every gate. Not to speak the neccesaty of 2-3 trial accounts alts who will monitor gates all the time... Horrible idea if introduced mindlessly.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.04.21 23:48:00 -
[13]
There are other ways to find hostiles besides local, and I believe the point of this thread and the thousands like it over the years have been that people want to be forced to use those other methods rather than rely on local.
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Cihl
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Posted - 2007.04.22 00:09:00 -
[14]
There is actually a very simple fix for the "local channel" problem. And that is: Make it a recent speaker channel, like the help channel.
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hom3gr0wn
Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.22 02:01:00 -
[15]
I like the idea of not having a local at all makes it more realistic, if they dont get rid of local at least let the cloakers go invisible in local when they cloak would make the game a little more interesting... destroyable sentry guns would be nice for systems that alliance claim soverignty.....
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.04.22 02:09:00 -
[16]
No.
Pressing the scan button every 5 seconds to see if anybody is warping to your belt is a non-starter.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.04.22 02:17:00 -
[17]
And no to cloakers being removed from local too, they already sit in systems afk 24x7 with no way to remove them.
Having invisible people flying around ganking everybody is stupid.
I was a cloaker in Planetside.
There is no downside to the cloaker playstyle, all you gotta do is wait for someone to be alone or get careless.
Meanwhile you're cloaked, you can get up and have a sandwich.
Where's the downside? Where's the risk/reward?
There is none.
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Mista Sexamalicious
Sexa Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.22 02:35:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Mista Sexamalicious on 22/04/2007 02:33:26
Originally by: Nachshon Many people have pointed out how the local channel is often used for reconnaisance. I know this better than most - I use it ALL THE TIME. The point is, it becomes easy to see pirates and enemies in a system. Systems where pirates are on local will be avoided. Even pilots in cloaked ships appear on local.
I have a way to fix this issue - make local optional. Players wishing to avoid notice may choose not to go on local, and will not appear there.
There is a drawback - a player who is not on local cannot see who IS on local. A pirate could stay off local, and attack unsuspecting players - but he might walk right into a paramilitary fleet with no warning.
Whether you are cloaked or not will make no difference - you could be in a titan, and if you are not on local, nobody will know you are there (unless they turn on the sensors).
I for one, like this idea. As it is now I play w/o chat windows open and rely on the scanner to tell me who may be near me.(the min. tab says whether or not there's more than one other person in local and I act accordingly). OFC I'm cloaked more often than not.
If I do have a chat window open while playing (especially Local)I always have the, X players, clicked so I can't see who is in local unless they text. ( reduces lag in a major way when the screen loads). Try it.
SEXEH!
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Riffsajet
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Posted - 2007.04.22 02:37:00 -
[19]
basicly what it boils down to is pirates and griefers just looking for another angle to gank miners and haulers ..... as if they need more help ! they call carebears "whiners" ......they should really look hard at themselves.. please leave "local" alone .... go fix the things that are broken instead !
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Mista Sexamalicious
Sexa Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.22 02:39:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Riffsajet basicly what it boils down to is pirates and griefers just looking for another angle to gank miners and haulers ..... as if they need more help ! they call carebears "whiners" ......they should really look hard at themselves.. please leave "local" alone .... go fix the things that are broken instead !
Are you serious? Have you looked at the players who have been whining lately? Come on. SEXEH!
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Riffsajet
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Posted - 2007.04.22 02:56:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Riffsajet on 22/04/2007 02:54:36
Quote: Are you serious? Have you looked at the players who have been whining lately? Come on
ya i"m serious ...here is an example: whinage
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Mista Sexamalicious
Sexa Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.22 03:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Riffsajet they should really look hard at themselves..
Yeah misread this.
Originally by: Riffsajet
please leave "local" alone .... go fix the things that are broken instead !
Local is broken. It wasn't the best Idea to begin with tbfh. (proof given by that mod that, I think but but don't quote me here, Goons used.) Which was why CCP implemented the Friend or Foe in Local just recently. ( To give everyone a level playing field. I respect them for that.)
Now if they would have just removed local umpteen years ago we wouldn't be having this convo now. Would we?
SEXEH!
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Riffsajet
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Posted - 2007.04.22 03:45:00 -
[23]
Quote: Local is broken. It wasn't the best Idea to begin with tbfh. (proof given by that mod that, I think but but don't quote me here, Goons used.) Which was why CCP implemented the Friend or Foe in Local just recently. ( To give everyone a level playing field. I respect them for that.)
I still think it"s a bad idea,advantage goes to hostiles entering systems,if they do remove local then i would like something to be implemented on our scanners... say a flashimg ticker or something saying a ship has entered system, i would be in favor of using our scanners if local is removed.
"Modern war never fights or enters hostile territory without intel and or good radar intelligence,thus the need for better scanners will be needed..i hope i"m not babbling on this subject :)
If not then i will be forced to set alt scouts on all gates incoming to said systems...
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Awenn
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Posted - 2007.04.22 04:08:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Awenn on 22/04/2007 04:06:50 Edited by: Awenn on 22/04/2007 04:05:37 I'm a total noob, but...
If someone is cloaked, they should be able to see local without being seen *until* they speak. Then they blow their cover i.e. no-one should be listed in local until they speak. I don't think it's fair or immersive that a non-gameplay system affects the gameplay. A similar thing in literature/movies occurs when a character refers to something outside the context of the narrative world. This is called "breaking the fourth wall", and is generally considered bad.
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Elmicker
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.22 04:28:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Elmicker on 22/04/2007 04:25:06 Allowing anyone to hide from local, whether it be a blanket local removal or the removal of cloakers would absolutely break Eve beyond all recognition.
It'd stop every activity in 0.0 other than PvP (which'd last about a week until everyone ran out of isk), if cloakers can hide from local; how do you know there's not 20 recon ships sitting 30km off your alliance mining op? Sure, you could keep up a 100-man gatecamp for a week beforehand, but the current aim is to discourage blobbing and camping and push 0.0 combat towards smaller tactical skirmishes. That, and no one in their right mind wants to do that.
Local is fine. Changing it would break eve. Even adding sovereignty modules that give you an accurate local would break it. They wouldnt work in lowsec, so that'd empty out sharpish. It'd also force you to put up a pos in every single system you'll ever operate in. Do you have any idea how time and isk-intensive that'd be?! Operating sovereignty poses in outpost systems is bad enough, but having to put up, fuel and defend a large POS (smalls + meds are far too easily destroyed) in every single system you use is just absurd.
People need to stop whinging about local; the majority of the people doing it are either pirates ****ed about WTZ, or people who've never been beyond their local 0.4.
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.22 04:43:00 -
[26]
NO
This is a game and is meant to be fun. If this was changed it would only be a positive change for 1 particular play style, everybody else would suffer. This would make it extra easy for pirates, but make everything a cautious monotonous bore for the rest of us. A miner wants to mine 1 system over, and he automatically has to have a scout on each gate to watch for hostiles, and maybe an escort just in case some enemy got into local. That takes about 5 people doing nothing so 1 person can mine in a 2-gate system (1 guy watching the gate on each entry gate, and 3 to defend the miner) and that is not fun. Id hate to even think of what it would take to move a large fleet, or even maintain simple sovereignty.
This is A GAME (yes this is a game ppl) DOES NOT have to have ANY bearing to real life whatsoever. Removing ANYONE from local, cloaked or not would just add tedium (tedium is boring) to everyones playtime. Local also makes it so the game doesnt feel so 'lonely', I dont think there is anyone who could go 20 jumps in this game with nobody in local without saying 'where the **** is everyone' we need player interaction, thats the fun part of eve. And I dont think it will ever happen, CCP has pretty much made sure that local is here to stay. They have already added many new features to loacl, and i dont think they would be adding features to something they are trying to get rid of
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Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.22 05:23:00 -
[27]
The idea of removing pilot names from the overview gives me a hard-on. Hell, maybe just a column under overview settings with ship type would be cool.
Anyways, back to the local thing. I jump into a system, or someone jumps into a system I am in. Usually the first thing they do is a bunch of show infos.
My info comes up first. It gives them my corporation (known PvP/pirate corp), my character age and most importantly.. my security status. It took them about 5 seconds to get that info.
Now, I have to actually wait for my screen to load, then I have to check all of the belts/stations in the system - no easy task in a large system. So, I've spent maybe 30 to 60 seconds looking for a target, I warp to where I think they are, and I am left in their warp trail. Their destination? The station.
So yeah, maybe something should be done about local. - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.22 05:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Awox The idea of removing pilot names from the overview gives me a hard-on. Hell, maybe just a column under overview settings with ship type would be cool.
Anyways, back to the local thing. I jump into a system, or someone jumps into a system I am in. Usually the first thing they do is a bunch of show infos.
My info comes up first. It gives them my corporation (known PvP/pirate corp), my character age and most importantly.. my security status. It took them about 5 seconds to get that info.
Now, I have to actually wait for my screen to load, then I have to check all of the belts/stations in the system - no easy task in a large system. So, I've spent maybe 30 to 60 seconds looking for a target, I warp to where I think they are, and I am left in their warp trail. Their destination? The station.
So yeah, maybe something should be done about local.
And pirates are the only ones who would benefit from such a thing. Everyone else would suffer. And based on the backstory the jump gates record when you enter/leave system.
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Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.22 05:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ghosttr And pirates are the only ones who would benefit from such a thing. Everyone else would suffer. And based on the backstory the jump gates record when you enter/leave system.
Or just even war targets. War targets already stick out like hell thanks to standings in the local window. How the hell are you suppose to disrupt industrial operations when they can be in warp to the station before you even know which belt they are in?
I know people who manage to run lvl4 missions and avoid being probed out by pirates due to sorting through their scanner, so really, how hard would it be for NPCers or strip miners to check just for hostile ships on scanners?
Really.. - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.22 05:36:00 -
[30]
Oh, and by disrupt industrial operations I mean actually destroying the equipment they use to make the money. Not just force them to hide in the POS or dock up (in which case they could just as easily go get a sandwich and a cup of tea)... - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
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