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Omar Alharazaad
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
3243
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Posted - 2017.02.13 13:41:16 -
[271] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:In the instance that you ignore that advice, and do pay ransom, and they actually honor it, be sure to send them a further payment of that ransom amount again as a bonus for honoring the deal, cos you where blessed to meet such a super rare pirate unicorn of honor. If they honor the ransom the player and corporation don't get blacklisted or bountied; that's their reward. What's interesting is that none of the low-sec gangs sell "protection" or "escort" security for travelling through or operating in their space. Why is that? Is it simply more fun to 'poke holes in a ship until the candy falls out'? oi. sometimes that candy is top notch stuff. don't begrudge a man for doing violence for profit. I got a tasty 300 mil isk module off a guy who chose poorly just a couple weeks ago. Paid for the outfitting of my Navygeddon. Sometimes you just know, especially after being all so intimate with a customer for a few minutes, where the money is at. If it's in their wallet instead of on their ship then it's in your best interest to hit the wallet. My point was mainly that if your'e going to actually offer to set them free for a price then you most likely should, as what happens next can affect both your own reputation and that of those whom you associate with.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5474
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Posted - 2017.02.13 13:56:39 -
[272] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:most are pirates not merceneries, bountied? is that even a thing? ISK is ISK. One way to get high-sec players into low-sec is by providing escort. The problem is that most pirates would rather shoot them, which kind of defeats the purpose. According to my spell check 'bountied' is indeed a word (had to check it twice).
The reality is that it's probably more lucrative gate camping for hours on end because you really only need one blingy ship to recoup your efforts. And therein lies the problem: Shiny things are less likely to be ransomed, it's more fun to shoot them and then there's the fanatic devotion to killmails and ratios.
So we're back to why players stay in high-sec again... Maybe it's time to evolve?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1496
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Posted - 2017.02.13 13:57:13 -
[273] - Quote
Honoring bounties has less to do with honor per se, but with business. Typically you make more money off a ransom than a kill, and you will want to be known as a guy who honors ransom, otherwise nobody will pay. Unfortunately, these days this does almost never work anymore. People go in expecting ransoms to not be honored, and no matter how well-known you may be, most of the juicier targets you manage to catch are not even aware of their immediate surroundings, much less so of the pirates roaming the region, so they wouldn't know whether a certain individual, corp or alliance honors ransoms or not. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5475
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Posted - 2017.02.13 14:08:17 -
[274] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Honoring bounties has less to do with honor per se, but with business. Typically you make more money off a ransom than a kill, and you will want to be known as a guy who honors ransom, otherwise nobody will pay. Unfortunately, these days this does almost never work anymore. People go in expecting ransoms to not be honored, and no matter how well-known you may be, most of the juicier targets you manage to catch are not even aware of their immediate surroundings, much less so of the pirates roaming the region, so they wouldn't know whether a certain individual, corp or alliance honors ransoms or not. The problem is that too many players have been burned - all it takes is for a player to be betrayed once and that's it. There's too much risk for the token reward of operating out of low-sec unless you decide to become a pirate.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Gretek Moergyn
Non-Sedentary T U A R E G
3
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Posted - 2017.02.13 22:10:14 -
[275] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lan Wang wrote:most are pirates not merceneries, bountied? is that even a thing? ISK is ISK. One way to get high-sec players into low-sec is by providing escort. The problem is that most pirates would rather shoot them, which kind of defeats the purpose. According to my spell check 'bountied' is indeed a word (had to check it twice). The reality is that it's probably more lucrative gate camping for hours on end because you really only need one blingy ship to recoup your efforts. And therein lies the problem: Shiny things are less likely to be ransomed, it's more fun to shoot them and then there's the fanatic devotion to killmails and ratios. So we're back to why players stay in high-sec again...
Yes, so we return to the frustration that inspired the post that began this thread. The consensus seems to be that nothing is ever going to change because the players do not want it to change. I hope that this game we all enjoy will not suffer as a result. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5924
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Posted - 2017.02.13 23:41:36 -
[276] - Quote
Gretek Moergyn wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lan Wang wrote:most are pirates not merceneries, bountied? is that even a thing? ISK is ISK. One way to get high-sec players into low-sec is by providing escort. The problem is that most pirates would rather shoot them, which kind of defeats the purpose. According to my spell check 'bountied' is indeed a word (had to check it twice). The reality is that it's probably more lucrative gate camping for hours on end because you really only need one blingy ship to recoup your efforts. And therein lies the problem: Shiny things are less likely to be ransomed, it's more fun to shoot them and then there's the fanatic devotion to killmails and ratios. So we're back to why players stay in high-sec again... Yes, so we return to the frustration that inspired the post that began this thread. The consensus seems to be that nothing is ever going to change because the players do not want it to change. I hope that this game we all enjoy will not suffer as a result.
Oh FFS. Look the op did the in-game version of slamming his head into a wallGǪrepeatedly. He went to one of the most violent systems in game and tried to get through in a T1 frigate. It is like you are walking down the road, you see a big hole in the road. Do you just keep going and fall into or do you walk around it? Seriously how many ships does one have to derp before they sit down and think, maybe there is a way around it? Nope better to nerf other peopleGÇÖs game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Gretek Moergyn
Non-Sedentary T U A R E G
3
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Posted - 2017.02.14 02:06:11 -
[277] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Gretek Moergyn wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lan Wang wrote:most are pirates not merceneries, bountied? is that even a thing? ISK is ISK. One way to get high-sec players into low-sec is by providing escort. The problem is that most pirates would rather shoot them, which kind of defeats the purpose. According to my spell check 'bountied' is indeed a word (had to check it twice). The reality is that it's probably more lucrative gate camping for hours on end because you really only need one blingy ship to recoup your efforts. And therein lies the problem: Shiny things are less likely to be ransomed, it's more fun to shoot them and then there's the fanatic devotion to killmails and ratios. So we're back to why players stay in high-sec again... Yes, so we return to the frustration that inspired the post that began this thread. The consensus seems to be that nothing is ever going to change because the players do not want it to change. I hope that this game we all enjoy will not suffer as a result. Oh FFS. Look the op did the in-game version of slamming his head into a wallGǪrepeatedly. He went to one of the most violent systems in game and tried to get through in a T1 frigate. It is like you are walking down the road, you see a big hole in the road. Do you just keep going and fall into or do you walk around it? Seriously how many ships does one have to derp before they sit down and think, maybe there is a way around it? Nope better to nerf other peopleGÇÖs game.
First of all, I have no idea what "FFS" means. Maybe it's a generational thing--I suspect that I'm much older than most people here. But I don't speak d00d. Sorry.
Second, if you are implying that I want to "nerf other people's game," please go back and read what I have written, assuming that you actually care about understanding the issues being discussed here. I don't care about "nerfing" anyone's game. If you are implying that the person who began this thread wants to "nerf other people's game," then quote him/her directly.
I play the way I want to play and you and everyone else can play the way you want to play. I could not possibly care less how you play. If you are in 0.0 space I am never going to meet you, so have fun doing whatever you want to do. I mean that sincerely. This is a great game and we should all enjoy it.
I suggested a possible answer for those who want to encourage more hi-sec types to venture into 0.0. The consensus seems to be that such a player-agreed change in how piracy/gate camping is conducted is not practical.
Fair enough.
I'm getting tired of repeating myself to people who don't bother to read what I wrote earlier, so this is my last post in this thread.
Happy flying, everyone! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27604
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Posted - 2017.02.14 02:10:06 -
[278] - Quote
Gretek Moergyn wrote:First of all, I have no idea what "FFS" means. The clean version is for goodness sake, replace goodness with the crude form of fornicates.
Quote:Maybe it's a generational thing--I suspect that I'm much older than most people here. But I don't speak d00d. Sorry. I wouldn't put money on that if I was you, many of us have been gaming for 30+ years.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5926
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Posted - 2017.02.14 06:34:07 -
[279] - Quote
Gretek Moergyn wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Gretek Moergyn wrote:
Yes, so we return to the frustration that inspired the post that began this thread. The consensus seems to be that nothing is ever going to change because the players do not want it to change. I hope that this game we all enjoy will not suffer as a result.
Oh FFS. Look the op did the in-game version of slamming his head into a wallGǪrepeatedly. He went to one of the most violent systems in game and tried to get through in a T1 frigate. It is like you are walking down the road, you see a big hole in the road. Do you just keep going and fall into or do you walk around it? Seriously how many ships does one have to derp before they sit down and think, maybe there is a way around it? Nope better to nerf other peopleGÇÖs game. First of all, I have no idea what "FFS" means. Maybe it's a generational thing--I suspect that I'm much older than most people here. But I don't speak d00d. Sorry. Second, if you are implying that I want to "nerf other people's game," please go back and read what I have written, assuming that you actually care about understanding the issues being discussed here. I don't care about "nerfing" anyone's game. If you are implying that the person who began this thread wants to "nerf other people's game," then quote him/her directly. I play the way I want to play and you and everyone else can play the way you want to play. I could not possibly care less how you play. If you are in 0.0 space I am never going to meet you, so have fun doing whatever you want to do. I mean that sincerely. This is a great game and we should all enjoy it. I suggested a possible answer for those who want to encourage more hi-sec types to venture into 0.0. The consensus seems to be that such a player-agreed change in how piracy/gate camping is conducted is not practical. Fair enough. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to people who don't bother to read what I wrote earlier, so this is my last post in this thread. Happy flying, everyone!
Heh, not sure you are older than me...but maybe, I'm closing in on 49.
But yes, Jonah has it right. Consider it an expression of exasperation.
My point is that the OP was just being obstinate and foolish. He kept running into the same obstacle and didn't sit down and figure out if there is a way around that obstacle. In this case there literally is. To gain access to the LS pocket of which Tama in one entry point there are at least 2 others that are much, much less heavily camped.
BTW, here is the dotlan map, not Tama is highlighted.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Citadel/Tama#kills24
Here is another entrance to that pocket.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Citadel/Hysera#kills24
Here is another entrance,
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Citadel/Tannolen#kills24
And yet another,
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/The_Citadel/Nagamanen#kills24
So literally 3 routes into that pocket. And there are numerous other pockets of LS to explore many of which are far less violent. Did the OP even come here and ask about Dotlan?
No, much better to come here and rage like a petulant baby then stomp off and go play some other ****** game. Literally...screw him. Sorry if that is harsh.
Yet instead of coming here and asking advice, looking at the in game map, looking at dotlan the OP comes here and posts in a butthurt and rage quitting manner. TBQH he is probably gone an no longer following this thread. But if that is the case good riddance. I don't say that to be an *******, but because I love EVE...as it is and even more as it was. People coming here and saying, "Too hard!!!" "Too much PvP!!!" "Gankers suck!!!!" Leads CCP, in desperation IMO, to keep dumbing down and nerfing the styles of play that lead to growth in the game. Maybe I'm wrong, but successive nerfs to HS PvP seem to coincide with declining PCU.
And here is the Grand Mother Phoking* Irony of this. If the OP had come here and said, "What am i doing wrong, please help." He'd likely have gotten good advice. Yeah, some forum boobs might post nonsense or troll him, but sifting through that nonsense he'd have found people pointing out a number of things to do....like don't go through Tama it is one of the most violent LS systems in game, and maybe one of the most violent systems overall. You can get into NS and LS, just don't be stupid about it. Don't go through HED-GP to get into Catch and don't go through Tama.
Again and again I see these claims of "The consensus seems to be that such a player-agreed change in how piracy/gate camping is conducted is not practical." But where is this consensus? That people come here and whine? Sure if a player is bad and loses multiple ships do you think he might be more prone to show up here and whine than if he were successful or to pick an alternate route? In short you consensus is likely bullshit just like newspapers are likely bullshit. They pick stories that will sell add revenues not stories to inform you or make you more well rounded.
I'm sorry you feel I'm too harsh, but your going off of biased data. Did you know CCP looked at ganks for new players and found, surprisingly, that new players who were ganked stayed with the game longer than those who were killed legally and those not killed at all? No? Gee.**
*Phoking is a Vietnamese restaurant in Orange County CA. You can even buy t-shirts with phrases like "How may I phoking help you?" And Pho is pronounced more like 'fuh'.
**Watch the statistical know-nothings will show up to poo-poo that study based on lies and half-truths.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5926
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Posted - 2017.02.14 06:44:20 -
[280] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Gretek Moergyn wrote:
Maybe it's a generational thing--I suspect that I'm much older than most people here. But I don't speak d00d. Sorry.
I wouldn't put money on that if I was you, many of us have been gaming for 30+ years.
Is that a challenge? I played pong when if first came out! Take that!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Hakawai
State War Academy Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:05:17 -
[281] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: [...] Did you know CCP looked at ganks for new players and found, surprisingly, that new players who were ganked stayed with the game longer than those who were killed legally and those not killed at all? No? Gee.**
**Watch the statistical know-nothings will show up to poo-poo that study based on lies and half-truths.
The reason you get pushback is because it's an obvious case of "correlation is not causation".
Imagine you asked all current "old-timers":
- Have you ever been ganked?
- Were you ever ganked as a rookie?
What answers would you get? What conclusion could you draw from the answers? None - in a game like EVE those answers carry no information at all.
A supporting issue: it would be nearly impossible to get answers from everyone who stopped playing EVE. It would be difficult enough to get good answers from any beginner.
How could "what's the main reason you stopped playing EVE?" be answered? I was ganked once? /lol. People stop playing games because they get bored. And there is no simple answer to "why did you get bored?".
Here are some "secret" principles of gaming:
- New players like to get set up fast, and get access to the "real game" fast.
- They don't like to be bored while they're setting up
- They have a limited tolerance for other people wasting their time (boring non-consensual activities)
- They prefer to play with nice people
- They have a limited tolerance for grovelling to get access to essential aspects of the game (like becoming part of a good Corp)
So how does Gate Camping at the 0.5/0.4 interfaces fit in? |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
3127
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 07:11:22 -
[282] - Quote
It's definitely the game's fault that you decided to jump into Tama over and over and over again.
There is no conceivable way it could have been avoided.
You certainly could not have jumped into low sec anywhere other than Tama.
You were forced, unfairly, to continually feed yourself into one of the biggest meat-grinders in the game.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:15:20 -
[283] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: [...] Did you know CCP looked at ganks for new players and found, surprisingly, that new players who were ganked stayed with the game longer than those who were killed legally and those not killed at all? No? Gee.**
**Watch the statistical know-nothings will show up to poo-poo that study based on lies and half-truths.
The reason you get pushback is because it's an obvious case of "correlation is not causation". Imagine you asked all current "old-timers":
- Have you ever been ganked?
- Were you ever ganked as a rookie?
What answers would you get? What conclusion could you draw from the answers? None - in a game like EVE those answers carry no information at all.
Perhaps you missed the part about it be new players. It is right there in what I wrote, "...new players...."
Quote:A supporting issue: it would be nearly impossible to get answers from everyone who stopped playing EVE. It would be difficult enough to get good answers from any beginner.
This is why you use random samples. Holy ****, did I say statistical know-nothings or what? Where I work we use random samples of 50,000 for close to 5 million customers. We use a sample that big so that we can break it down into smaller groups. If we wanted to get a good picture of the typical customer we could probably go down to just 5,000. So yeah...80,000 is probably pretty good.
Quote:How could "what's the main reason you stopped playing EVE?" be answered? I was ganked once? /lol. People stop playing games because they get bored. And there is no simple answer to "why did you get bored?".
They did not ask players that. You clearly are ignorant of the study. Let me help you...
CCP took a sample of 80,000 and broke them down into:
Those killed:
1. Illegaly--i.e. suicide ganked. 2. Killed legally--e.g. a war dec. 3. Those not killed at all.
Groups 1 and 2 stayed with the game the longest with 1 slightly beating out 2.
Next time go watch the presentation vs. speaking out of ignorance. There are valid criticism to be made of the presentation, but you have not made any.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:20:21 -
[284] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:
- They have a limited tolerance for grovelling to get access to essential aspects of the game (like becoming part of a good Corp)
BTW, did you read the part about asking for help/guidance here vs. rage quitting like a little b**ch? If he had come here and said, "How can I get in there," I'm sure 1 or more people would have pointed him to dotlan and said, "Try those other routes," or even suggest other LS pockets to go explore that are less dangerous.
There are nice people in game FFS. But when you come here like an entitled **** swizzler you aren't going to find the nice people.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:21:14 -
[285] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:It's definitely the game's fault that you decided to jump into Tama over and over and over again.
There is no conceivable way it could have been avoided.
You certainly could not have jumped into low sec anywhere other than Tama.
You were forced, unfairly, to continually feed yourself into one of the biggest meat-grinders in the game.
Irony, your name is SurrenderMonkey.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Amon Schi
Bergbau und Co inPanic
5
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:24:47 -
[286] - Quote
Laszlo Miklos wrote:I think this is just another in the long line of EVE Darwinian selection. Adapt or die.
It's a harsh galaxy out there. You either learn from your mistakes (which, quite frankly, were pretty stupid) or you go play another less demanding/challenging game.
Your lack of experience, understanding of game mechanics, failure to learn from your mistakes and the resulting rage quit post leads me to believe that you self-identify as a cheese danish ( no offense towards the Danes intended).
This!
Podcast by Amon Schi
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Hakawai
State War Academy Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:33:29 -
[287] - Quote
If you do know something about sampling and statistics, you'll know how difficult it would be to get good data supporting the claim that being ganked makes people more inclined to stay.
It's a lot more likely to be one of several proxies for a style of play or an initial condition (such as a person who already has a friend in a good nullsec corp).
If you want to keep selling your interpretation, find the original material, check that it really shows what you're claiming, and link the solid evidence (not the whole thing- I won't do the analysis for you, because the claim is highly unlikely). |
Hakawai
State War Academy Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:45:11 -
[288] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Hakawai wrote:
- They have a limited tolerance for grovelling to get access to essential aspects of the game (like becoming part of a good Corp)
BTW, did you read the part about asking for help/guidance here vs. rage quitting like a little b**ch? If he had come here and said, "How can I get in there," I'm sure 1 or more people would have pointed him to dotlan and said, "Try those other routes," or even suggest other LS pockets to go explore that are less dangerous. There are nice people in game FFS. But when you come here like an entitled **** swizzler you aren't going to find the nice people. This has nothing to do with the quoted comment.
You should have gone for the one that points out that people don't like having large amounts of their time wasted. Gate Camps are impassible for new players (perhaps even for old timers), and they are located so there's no convenient, (reasonably time-efficient) bypass. As a chokepoint in defense of "owned" space, they're a great idea. At a 0.5/0.4 interface they're just a time-waster.
One interpretation of 0.5/0.4 gate camping (with much better logic behind it than the "ganked players stay" argument /lol) is that the old timers are trying their best to discourage new players from leaving HighSec.
But why? Here there's too little to data to form a hypothesis, but one aspect for which there's supporting data: perhaps it's because old timers enjoy whining about new players staying in high sec? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 07:45:32 -
[289] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:If you do know something about sampling and statistics, you'll know how difficult it would be to get good data supporting the claim that being ganked makes people more inclined to stay. It's a lot more likely to be one of several proxies for a style of play or an initial condition (such as a person who already has a friend in a good nullsec corp). If you want to keep selling your interpretation, find the original material, check that it really shows what you're claiming, and link the solid evidence (not the whole thing- I won't do the analysis for you, because the claim is highly unlikely).
And here it is. I don't agree with the conclusions so therefore it must be wrong.
That's it. That is all these types have. Note, how there is no reply to my comments that the presentation was not about veterans, but new players. 80,000 players and then CCP looked to see if they were ganked in their first 15 days. First. 15. Days. That is new players who were ganked.
Nope...so much easier to say, "I don't like the results and here are some generic bullshit reasons."
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:49:32 -
[290] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Hakawai wrote:
- They have a limited tolerance for grovelling to get access to essential aspects of the game (like becoming part of a good Corp)
BTW, did you read the part about asking for help/guidance here vs. rage quitting like a little b**ch? If he had come here and said, "How can I get in there," I'm sure 1 or more people would have pointed him to dotlan and said, "Try those other routes," or even suggest other LS pockets to go explore that are less dangerous. There are nice people in game FFS. But when you come here like an entitled **** swizzler you aren't going to find the nice people. This has nothing to do with the quoted comment. You should have gone for the one that points out that people don't like having large amounts of their time wasted. Gate Camps are impassible for new players (perhaps even for old timers), and they are located so there's no convenient, (reasonably time-efficient) bypass. As a chokepoint in defense of "owned" space, they're a great idea. At a 0.5/0.4 interface they're just a time-waster. One interpretation of 0.5/0.4 gate camping (with much better logic behind it than the "ganked players stay" argument /lol) is that the old timers are trying their best to discourage new players from leaving HighSec. But why? Here there's too little to data to form a hypothesis, but one aspect for which there's supporting data: perhaps it's because old timers enjoy whining about new players staying in high sec?
You don't have to grovel FFS. That is the point. Just ask for help and there are plenty of people who would offer good advice. Simple pointing to Dotlan and how to use it would be good advice. How to use the in game map would be good advice. Many of the "bitter salty vets" would likely point to those things.
The gate camp is a lesson. When you run in to it. Look for an alternate solution vs. reshipping and doing that same thing again and again expecting a different result. Seriously, that is often the definition of insanity and at the very least stupidity.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
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Posted - 2017.02.14 07:52:23 -
[291] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:If you do know something about sampling and statistics, you'll know how difficult it would be to get good data supporting the claim that being ganked makes people more inclined to stay. It's a lot more likely to be one of several proxies for a style of play or an initial condition (such as a person who already has a friend in a good nullsec corp). If you want to keep selling your interpretation, find the original material, check that it really shows what you're claiming, and link the solid evidence (not the whole thing- I won't do the analysis for you, because the claim is highly unlikely).
And here is another thing. People confronted with data that conflicts with their preconceived notions usually have this response. Instead of saying, "Hmmm....maybe I was wrong." They say, "No, I am not wrong and here are the reasons I can ignore this thing that presents results contrary to my prior beliefs." There is a word for that: dogmatism.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Hakawai
State War Academy Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2017.02.14 08:17:54 -
[292] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: [...] That's it. That is all these types have. Note, how there is no reply to my comments that the presentation was not about veterans, but new players. 80,000 players and then CCP looked to see if they were ganked in their first 15 days. First. 15. Days. That is new players who were ganked.
This is at least a start at providing data. To summarize:
- CCP checked some stats for the first 15 days of 80K new players
- They identified a split "ganked/not ganked"
- They found a correlation between "ganked" and "continued playing after 15 days"
Now we need confirmation of the "fuzzy parts" of your claim ( it's a general rule in statistics that "fuzzy" claims tend to be poorly supported by the data) Were these trials? If trials plus subscriptions, how many were "direct subscription"? Did they actually say "ganked", or something else? If they actually said "died to PvP", did they look for the context (e.g. there's a difference between Faction War and Gate Camp) Did CCP seriously suggest there's a meaningful correlation between "ganked" and "playing on", or was it a joke? How did they define "continued playing"? One month? One year? |
Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46882
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 08:29:59 -
[293] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: [...] That's it. That is all these types have. Note, how there is no reply to my comments that the presentation was not about veterans, but new players. 80,000 players and then CCP looked to see if they were ganked in their first 15 days. First. 15. Days. That is new players who were ganked.
This is at least a start at providing data. To summarize:
- CCP checked some stats for the first 15 days of 80K new players
- They identified a split "ganked/not ganked"
- They found a correlation between "ganked" and "continued playing after 15 days"
Now we need confirmation of the "fuzzy parts" of your claim ( it's a general rule in statistics that "fuzzy" claims tend to be poorly supported by the data) Were these trials? If trials plus subscriptions, how many were "direct subscription"? Did they actually say "ganked", or something else? If they actually said "died to PvP", did they look for the context (e.g. there's a difference between Faction War and Gate Camp) Did CCP seriously suggest there's a meaningful correlation between "ganked" and "playing on", or was it a joke? How did they define "continued playing"? One month? One year? It's possible to go and watch the presentation yourself. Nearly all of these questions are directly answered in it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 08:34:07 -
[294] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: [...] That's it. That is all these types have. Note, how there is no reply to my comments that the presentation was not about veterans, but new players. 80,000 players and then CCP looked to see if they were ganked in their first 15 days. First. 15. Days. That is new players who were ganked.
This is at least a start at providing data. To summarize:
- CCP checked some stats for the first 15 days of 80K new players
- They identified a split "ganked/not ganked"
- They found a correlation between "ganked" and "continued playing after 15 days"
Now we need confirmation of the "fuzzy parts" of your claim ( it's a general rule in statistics that "fuzzy" claims tend to be poorly supported by the data) Were these trials? If trials plus subscriptions, how many were "direct subscription"? Did they actually say "ganked", or something else? If they actually said "died to PvP", did they look for the context (e.g. there's a difference between Faction War and Gate Camp) Did CCP seriously suggest there's a meaningful correlation between "ganked" and "playing on", or was it a joke? How did they define "continued playing"? One month? One year?
No. They found the following:
1. Those ganked played the longest. 2. Those killed legally played the next longest, most likely the same as in 1--i.e. the difference is statistically insignificant. 3. Those who were not ganked played the shortest time in game.
The rest of your questions are just obfuscation because the results do not comport with your prior beliefs. This is why I think frequentist statistics is bullshit. If the data suggest your priors are wrong you should update your priors based on the new data. Nope instead we get nonsense questions like, "were these trials". Yeah, some probably were trials, but after the gank most opted to go for a paid account. Duh!
Were they ganked/did they actually say ganked? Duh they looked at the killer(s). Were the killer(s) killed by CONCORD? If yes, then suicide ganked. There was no interview FFS.
I mean holy ****...go watch the ******* presentation it is on ******* youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y
Really...go watch the ******* presentation so you don't come off like a complete ignoramus. BTW, a gate camp won't involve CONCORD you moob.
And here is something for you butthurt anti-ganking/anti-pvp NUBs.
My interpretation of this presentation is that player-on-player interaction is good for retention. That also includes positive/cooperative player-on-player interaction. In fact, this presentation does not look at that kind of player-on-player interaction. It is quite possible that such interaction has an even stronger retention effect. Did you dipthongs even think of that? No, you were so busy trying to "disprove" this presentation with a load of nonsense because it did not fit with your prior belief therefore it must be wrong.
BTW, read that last sentence again.
I am calling you a dogmatic fool.
"Hi, I'm presented with data that goes against my prior beliefs, so instead of re-evaluating my prior beliefs, I'll do anything and everything to justify clinging to those beliefs."
I got some bad news for you, that is the basis of junk science.
Methodologically speaking you are a freaking nightmare. Let me throw a bunch of **** at the wall and see what sticks.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 08:36:44 -
[295] - Quote
Scipio is a much more patient person than I am.
But, in my defense the person I'm responding too clearly did not watch the presentation despite it being out for over a year and yet that person is holding for as if they know what they are talking about...but clearly don't.
I do not like fools.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Hakawai
State War Academy Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 08:40:42 -
[296] - Quote
I don't use youtube at all.
There must be some original material somewhere on one of CCP's sties? Or at least a static copy of the presentation? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 08:43:12 -
[297] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:I don't use youtube at all.
There must be some original material somewhere on one of CCP's sties? Or at least a static copy of the presentation?
Either you go watch youtube or perhaps you should just STFU since I don't feel like transcribing the presentation.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5927
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 08:46:45 -
[298] - Quote
Oh, and I doubt CCP will make anything available on their site as it would likely run into problems with player confidentiality agreements.
Maybe you could hire a lawyer who contacts CCP, and you guys work out a NDA and you can then have access to the data, but frankly I doubt it.
Maybe you should just watch the presentation youtube and simply pretend you are in the audience.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46883
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 08:47:20 -
[299] - Quote
Hakawai wrote:There must be some original material somewhere on one of CCP's sties? Or at least a static copy of the presentation? It will be in CCP's twitch channel in addition to their YouTube channel:
https://www.twitch.tv/ccp/videos/all
There are 3 Fanfest videos from 2015. They are 7 - 8 hours long each and there are no time stamps I can see, but CCP Rise's presentation will be in there somewhere. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3925
|
Posted - 2017.02.14 09:05:48 -
[300] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:It's definitely the game's fault that you decided to jump into Tama over and over and over again.
There is no conceivable way it could have been avoided.
You certainly could not have jumped into low sec anywhere other than Tama.
You were forced, unfairly, to continually feed yourself into one of the biggest meat-grinders in the game.
this is the thing about Tama, you look on twitch there is a stream called "IsTamaCamped" which actually streams the otherside of the gate, you jump into Nourv and there is dozens of mobile depots AROUND the gate with a link to the stream and various notices mentioning the gate is camped ffs people even have citadels marked "GATECAMP AHEAD!!!!", yet people by the hundreds still persist on jumping through that gate to feed the campers regardless of the overview being littered with warnings.
Tama is the most camped system and also the system with the most amount of warnings in the game.
It just starts to get funny how stupid people are in this game.
Alliance Logo Design Service
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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"Okay. So that was a pile of word salad..." - Bjorn Tyrson
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