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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3903
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Posted - 2017.02.08 15:21:47 -
[151] - Quote
Recettear Hariere wrote:This lossmail i simply included because it takes a special kind of person to pod a 3 day old rookie and not even lose a single comment about it. i certainly learned something from it, but that doesnt make this... ah lets keep it at that.
i will pod anyone, hundreds of pods a day, what makes a 3day old char more important than the guy with a highgrade pod?
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
27
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Posted - 2017.02.08 15:32:09 -
[152] - Quote
again and again? why did you let yourself get killed again and again? something tells me you like surprise, or not so surprise, buttseks?
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Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
5
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Posted - 2017.02.08 15:36:52 -
[153] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Recettear Hariere wrote:This lossmail i simply included because it takes a special kind of person to pod a 3 day old rookie and not even lose a single comment about it. i certainly learned something from it, but that doesnt make this... ah lets keep it at that. i will pod anyone, hundreds of pods a day, what makes a 3day old char more important than the guy with a highgrade pod?
IMO If you're lowering yourself to sealclubbing you should at least have the grace to tell them what went wrong. I agree that its not obvious wether the target is green as grass or just 100th iteration of some vet in disguise who was just lazy. but that answer is included in the killmail, or rather, the fitting in it. |
Recettear Hariere
Kittens and Puppies Engineering Inc.
5
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Posted - 2017.02.08 15:37:37 -
[154] - Quote
Rei Y wrote:again and again? why did you let yourself get killed again and again? something tells me you like surprise, or not so surprise, buttseks?
who are you even talking to. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3903
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Posted - 2017.02.08 15:38:44 -
[155] - Quote
Recettear Hariere wrote:If you're lowering yourself to sealclubbing you should at least have the grace to tell them what went wrong. I agree that its not obvious wether the target is green as grass or just 100th iteration of some vet in disguise who was just lazy. but that answer is included in the killmail, or rather, the fitting in it.
im protecting my space from people who want to shoot our big toys.
however you seem to not grasp the abilities of a new player and put full responsibility in the ganker, i get mails and convos all the time from new players asking what happened and how to avoid it, they get told how to avoid myself and they also get the loss reimbursed. we aint all bad and sometimes interaction with your killer can pay off.
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Salvos Rhoska
2061
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:03:39 -
[156] - Quote
Psst...
You, yeah you...
Come closer.
Ill tell you the secret to all conflict...
Are you listening?
Are you ready...?
Here it is:
Whom makes the most mistakes, loses.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5382
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:04:47 -
[157] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:however you seem to not grasp the abilities of a new player and put full responsibility in the ganker, i get mails and convos all the time from new players asking what happened and how to avoid it, they get told how to avoid myself and they also get the loss reimbursed. we aint all bad and sometimes interaction with your killer can pay off. How about not shooting them in the first place? The reason is that it's a source of income. It's easy to justify your actions by putting the onus on the new player for contacting you to get reimbursed (and this would also be the rarest of exceptions). Why not let them off with a warning? Because you know that the next group at the next gate almost certainly won't, so why give up that potential income to a rival? Ransoms are a running joke because contrary to popular belief they're almost never honored.
I have to hand it to you, though - you've developed the perfect meat grinder. The problem is that it also relies on a steady stream of new players completely oblivious to the risks and willing to venture out of high-sec.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3903
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:16:52 -
[158] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lan Wang wrote:however you seem to not grasp the abilities of a new player and put full responsibility in the ganker, i get mails and convos all the time from new players asking what happened and how to avoid it, they get told how to avoid myself and they also get the loss reimbursed. we aint all bad and sometimes interaction with your killer can pay off. How about not shooting them in the first place? The reason is that it's a source of income. It's easy to justify your actions by putting the onus on the new player for contacting you to get reimbursed (and this would also be the rarest of exceptions). Why not let them off with a warning? Because you know that the next group at the next gate almost certainly won't, so why give up that potential income to a rival? Ransoms are a running joke because contrary to popular belief they're almost never honored. I have to hand it to you, though - you've developed the perfect meat grinder. The problem is that it also relies on a steady stream of new players completely oblivious to the risks and willing to venture out of high-sec.
steady stream of new players? lol no, new players have nothing of value so new players are hardly "a source of income", its the vets which provide me with my income when they warp into me in travel ceptors full of shekels, new players are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
how about you stop doing missions and killing my Angel friends?
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5382
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:20:05 -
[159] - Quote
Then if you have nothing to gain - you have no reason to shoot new players. Oh, right... you're "educating" them. How silly of me. I think the best thing to happen to low-sec would be to turn CONCORD lose there.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3903
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:21:25 -
[160] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Then if you have nothing to gain - you have no reason to shoot new players. Oh, right... you're "educating" them. How silly of me.
I dont shoot new players...
why do you highsec carebears seem to think everyone does something for gain in this game, are you so brainwashed with min maxing that you think people cant have fun unless there is money involved?
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5382
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:24:31 -
[161] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:I dont shoot new players... You just said they are often in the wrong place at the wrong time and that you reimburse them for ship losses if they contact you. So you'll forgive me if I call bullsh*t. Yeah, I just looked at your killboard and it's littered with shuttles, rookie ships and Ventures.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3903
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:29:24 -
[162] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lan Wang wrote:I dont shoot new players... You just said they are often in the wrong place at the wrong time and that you reimburse them for ship losses if they contact you. So you'll forgive me if I call bullsh*t.
there is a difference between shooting and bombing, mainly bombing you are killing stuff coming towards the gate, not jumping through...so yeah i dont shoot new players i bomb them. not hard to avoid my playstyle tbh
i dont need to scram players, ransom or shoot them, they are dead pretty much instantly, and no im not going to check every char that appears on my overview.
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Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel
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Salvos Rhoska
2062
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:34:22 -
[163] - Quote
All of us where noobs, once.
Its not hard to tell who is, and who isn't, despite the Alpha situation.
If their ship is crap cheap and crap fit, reimburse them and give them some advice.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5382
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:37:49 -
[164] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:there is a difference between shooting and bombing, mainly bombing you are killing stuff coming towards the gate, not jumping through...so yeah i dont shoot new players i bomb them. not hard to avoid my playstyle tbh
i dont need to scram players, ransom or shoot them, they are dead pretty much instantly, and no im not going to check every char that appears on my overview. You're arguimg semantics and further justifying your actions by saying 'Well, I smartbomb everbody so it's not my fault for killing new players - they shouldn't have been travelling through that gate...'
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3905
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:38:02 -
[165] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I just looked at your killboard and it's littered with shuttles, rookie ships and Ventures.
are you assuming its only new players who fly these ships? you will be suprised who puts high grade pods, plex and bpo's inside shuttles.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27536
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:39:27 -
[166] - Quote
Recettear Hariere wrote:.... you skillfully evade the reasons i gave. Your reason is that you want to punch someone where they're vulnerable, which is fair enough; your method on the other hand destroys some of the meta-game of Eve that makes it so interesting to play. IMHO that is not a good thing.
You want to punch someone in the nuts via their alts? Do what everybody else does, infiltrate, gather intelligence, and get them when they're least expecting it, stab them in the back, steal their stuff; that is some of the game-play your solution destroys.
Quote:Point stands, this is hardly their only activity in the game. You do realise that the entire concept of Eve is based around conflict, and that the economy is powered by the destruction resulting from it?
If you produce stuff, destruction causes demand, if you mine destruction causes demand via production, if you farm LP destruction provides the market for the LP items you exchange it for, etc, etc. You don't get to play Eve as a single player game because everything is intrinsically linked.
Judging by your suggestion you'd be okay with me theoretically killing your industry alt while you move stuff to market because you theoretically ganked my newb ship a while back?
Quote:.... Its not about people doing whatever they do, its about the ******** amount of wealth that vets have accumulated and that disables certain rather important mechanics for them. Financially effective ganking vs "harvesting tears". Plain sadism should come with a pricetag, in ingame currency as well as in a bad reputation. Why shouldn't they have wealth? They have time and money invested in Eve, that is their reward for it. Remove it and their prior knowledge and experience means that 2 weeks after reset they'd have more wealth than someone without that knowledge and the ones that suicide gank now would still suicide gank then. A newbies disadvantage is not wealth, it is knowledge and experience; both of which, like wealth, take time to acquire.
Ganking is financially viable, CODE. proves it. As long as they keep ganking the unwary, the foolish, the greedy and the afk, people who have interests in the market, and on occasion the targeting and destruction of NPC industry/ production chain alts, will keep funding their SRP. Tears are a bonus, if nobody produced them it would be impossible to farm them.
Paying other people to blow up miners and haulers makes sense if you happen to sell or make those ships and the modules that get used on them.
Quote:From what i've read about him, this mittani guy you mentioned better has some guards when he's mining if his industry toon was flagged as such. is that a problem? not really. he has people who will do that. hell, he has people who will do the mining. Mittens has won Eve, AFAIK he no longer logs in but continues to influence the actions of 1000's of people without leaving the couch or touching the client.
Quote: Do you happen to have a list of their hauling alts? Me neither. Why should anyone be able to escape the consequences of their actions by switching hats? thats just cowardness.
It's not cowardice, it is the nature of the game. The destruction of BoB came about because of an alt, the Guiding Social Club assassination came about through the use of alts. What you consider to be a trivial thing to change has massive repercussions for a game that produces stories like these and is renowned for doing so.
So I say nay, your solution, to what many don't see as a problem, is an antithesis to everything Eve stands for.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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Feyd's Survival Pack
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5382
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Posted - 2017.02.08 16:57:16 -
[167] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:are you assuming its only new players who fly these ships? you will be suprised who puts high grade pods, plex and bpo's inside shuttles. Just concede that you're a pirate, that you shoot anything and everything - and stop trying to white knight it. Because all the stuff about being generous to new players is just complte horsesh*t. You fly a smartbomb-equipped Machariel that you run continuously within range of the gates in Tama to catch players both leaving and entering the system.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27536
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lan Wang wrote:are you assuming its only new players who fly these ships? you will be suprised who puts high grade pods, plex and bpo's inside shuttles. Just concede that you're a pirate, that you shoot anything and everything - and stop trying to white knight it. Because all the stuff about being generous to new players is just complte horsesh*t. You fly a smartbomb-equipped Machariel that you run continuously within range of the gates in Tama to catch players both leaving and entering the system. So what if she is, PL used to hotdrop people with capships on the Amamake gate all the time. Some FW dudes took it down.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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Feyd's Survival Pack
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5382
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:02:44 -
[169] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:So what if she is, PL used to hotdrop people with capships on the Amamake gate all the time. So now it's ok because PL once did something similar? You've completely missed the point, but that's fine.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27536
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:14:17 -
[170] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:So what if she is, PL used to hotdrop people with capships on the Amamake gate all the time. So now it's ok because PL once did something similar? You've completely missed the point, but that's fine. No you're missing the point, gatecamping and smartbombing are totally valid ways of killing people, if a little indiscriminate. We get that you don't like some of the tactics used by people in Eve. However, Eve is an extremely competitive game with very few rules, playing "dirty" is allowed by those rules, and always has been; which is what makes Eve different from the majority of other MMO's, and the reason many of us play it.
The reaction that you should have to the use of those tactics is to find out how to get around them, that is what many of us would rather see you do, just as we did. I'm sure CCP had it in mind too when they designed the game and its mechanics, this game is as much about solving the problems presented by others as it is about power, influence and conflict.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15124
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:16:44 -
[171] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: So now it's ok because
It's ok because it's not prohibited by the rules of the game, and this is a video game we are talking about. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5384
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:23:40 -
[172] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's ok because it's not prohibited by the rules of the game, and this is a video game we are talking about. I really don't care what anyone does. Just don't be disingenuous about it... If you're going to get on a soapbox and claim to be charitable - your actions should reflect that. I have more respect for a player that says 'Well, I'm an a**hole because this game needs a**holes and my purpose in the game is to serve as a warning to others.' I might not like their playstyle and I might disagree with it, but that's also my prerogative.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15125
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:40:06 -
[173] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:[quote=Jenn aSide]It's ok because it's not prohibited by the rules of the game, and this is a video game we are talking about. I really don't care what anyone does. [/quote[
This is obviously not true, you spent a couple pages arguing with Lan about what he does.
I actually see this alot here, the "I don't care what you do, just be honest about it" thing. If you don't care, why do you care if they are telling the truth about whatever? How would Lan saying "you know, you're right, I just love to kill new people because Im crazy and want them to leave the game" change anything.
Knowing Lan for all these years I have no reason to doubt him even if what's being discussed is silly.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15125
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:42:30 -
[174] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote: The reaction that you should have to the use of those tactics is to find out how to get around them
But crying on a forum is so much easier. The added "think of the children new players" stuff is just icing. No matter what, you can never explain to some people that blowing up people is a good thing in a video game. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat Snuffed Out
3907
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:42:44 -
[175] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Lan Wang wrote:are you assuming its only new players who fly these ships? you will be suprised who puts high grade pods, plex and bpo's inside shuttles. Just concede that you're a pirate, that you shoot anything and everything - and stop trying to white knight it. Because all the stuff about being generous to new players is just complte horsesh*t. You fly a smartbomb-equipped Machariel that you run continuously within range of the gates in Tama to catch players both leaving and entering the system.
You cant run a machariels smartbombs constantly what are you talking about, no i sit in a position from a certain gate which is easy enough to avoid, what exactly am i trying to "white knight" here, i am a dirty pirate and will kill anything i havent denied that, you seem really angry that people who do this sort of gameplay actually interact with players who die, does this not fit into your agenda or something?
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Salvos Rhoska
2066
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:42:48 -
[176] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:It's ok because it's not prohibited by the rules of the game, and this is a video game we are talking about.
This is pointless.
You know, as well as I do, that the majority of GD posting involves discussion about how things are vs how x person(s) think it should be.
Im sure you yourself disagree with umpteen rules and mechanics of EVE. We all do.
Thats why we all come here to discuss them.
That something is the way it is, does not mean it has to stay that way.
Im not saying Im agreeing with Arthur, but I am saying that claiming it is the way it currently is, is not an argument against someone else's argument to change it.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15129
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:48:50 -
[177] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:It's ok because it's not prohibited by the rules of the game, and this is a video game we are talking about. This is pointless. You know, as well as I do, that the majority of GD posting involves discussion about how things are vs how x person(s) think it should be. Im sure you yourself disagree with umpteen rules and mechanics of EVE. We all do.
No I do not. What you did here is called "Projecting".
Quote: Thats why we all come here to discuss them.
That something is the way it is, does not mean it has to stay that way.
Im not saying Im agreeing with Arthur, but I am saying that claiming it is the way it currently is, is not an argument.
You think that because you dislike "umpteen rules and mechanics" that everyone does.. it's nto true. hell off the top of my head, the only thing I don't really care for is how High Sec Incursions pay a bit too much for the amount of safety you get from the combination of your fleet's logi and CONCORD. and I don't sit up at night worrying about it lol.
I don't have a problem with a single other thing that anyone does in game as long as it's within the EULA. I come here to discuss the game yea, but not with an eye to changing it to suit me better. Players should adapt to the game, not the other way around.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5385
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:52:38 -
[178] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This is obviously not true, you spent a couple pages arguing with Lan about what he does. Whatever. I'll concede the point that you can apparently be just as disingenuous in the forums as you can in-game. I'm not going to re-hash everything all over again because I felt I already made my case and there's no point in dragging this out further. Respectfully, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2652
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:56:21 -
[179] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote: Thats why we all come here to discuss them.
That something is the way it is, does not mean it has to stay that way.
Im not saying Im agreeing with Arthur, but I am saying that claiming it is the way it currently is, is not an argument.
You think that because you dislike "umpteen rules and mechanics" that everyone does.. it's not true. QFT
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Yebo Lakatosh
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
47
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Posted - 2017.02.08 18:08:08 -
[180] - Quote
Recettear Hariere wrote:That isnot cool. you can do that of course, nothing would really change on your abillity to act that way, it simply opens up alternatives. I'm baffled when my actions in a videogame are measured and judged by real life studies and moralities. Let me just step over that part of the reasoning by stating that there are people who embody themeselves, and their own actual approaches in such a virtual environment, but there are also others who prefer to act in a vastly different way. It's just too easy to suspect RL frustartion or similar influences behind a gamer's actions, and it won't get you closer to understanding the motivations of their vast majority - if you have such ambitions.
Recettear Hariere wrote:[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frustration%E2%80%93aggression_hypothesis]This lossmail i simply included because it takes a special kind of person to pod a 3 day old rookie and not even lose a single comment about it. i certainly learned something from it, but that doesnt make this... ah lets keep it at that. In my eye, that player only conveyed a message: "If you fly the way you did, you will lose ships." I would consider you lucky that it happened on your 3rd day - if it were only on the 30th, you would have lost more, and started to looking into what you were doing wrong later.
I chat sometimes with players who never get podded before, and they keep cashing in PLEX, buying ships I wouldn't even dare to look at, not to mention flying them. I often try to warn them, but people prefer to learn from their own mistakes. And big ships are shiney. I'm a bit sad for them, buty you know... if I'll be able to get them the incentive to learn by guns, I won't leave it for the next guy on the next camp.
I think you are in an infinitely better position by having all those very cheap ships lost. I'm convinced you are on the right track.
They say Alpha clones are only for trying stuff. I say it's just the Hard Mode.
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