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Pixel Piracy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2017.02.05 08:09:05 -
[1] - Quote
Why can't we see some amount of immersion injected into the mission running side of EVE? Right now it seems very cold, dead and grindy. Without even changing gameplay and adding in some immersive elements like story telling and voice acting the somewhat dull experience of running your 10,568th mission may become something actually interesting. I believe this could attract a much larger audience to the game, people who are into space adventure such as Freespace and its like. It would also provide a platform to express the rich lore of the game that is often overlooked. Such content would of course me toggled on or off at the players discretion, ensuring that those who do not wish this kind of gameplay could ignore it.
Here are a couple of examples using L3 missions.
Cargo Delivery
Current gameplay: 1. The player warps to location ~35km out from a manufacturing facility. 2. The player approaches the warehouse container 3. When the warehouse is looted, hostile ships spawn in 4. The player engages in combat with the hostiles 5. The player survives (we hope)
Same gameplay with flavor: 1. Upon warping in the player receives a video comms from the facility. Something along the lines of "We read you on grid. Preparing docking for your approach." And maybe some random faction-based banter (this would especially breathe life into lore). 2. Upon looting the container hostile ships warp in with warp animations and sound rather than simply appearing. Facility comms warns the player they are detecting incoming hostiles but get cut off as you receive voice comms from the enemy ships declaring that they're about to kill you or something equally as unsociable. 3. Once the player destroys the hostiles they receive a congratulatory communicate from the facility and subsequently a call from their agent thanking them and requesting they return to the station.
What Goes Around Comes Around
Current gameplay: 1. The player warps to location and encounters a number of hostile ships. 2. The player engages the hostile ships in combat 3. The player survives (we hope)
Same gameplay with immersion: 1. The player warps to location and encounters hostile targets. The player is hailed by the hostile ships and can decide whether or not to accept. If accepted comms are opened and the hostiles threaten or warn you to leave the area immediately. If ignored nothing happens but it gives the sense of immersive gameplay (I would suggest they attack but that would antagonize the L4 professionals). 2. When hostiles commence attacking the player a voice communication is received advising the player that they warned them or similar. 3. Throughout combat the player receives taunting voice comms based on the faction of the hostiles. 4. The player destroys the hostiles, receives a congratulatory confirmation from agent and a request to return to station. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2916
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Posted - 2017.02.05 08:24:16 -
[2] - Quote
Just something for Cargo Delivery: You do not need to fight them. You just loot the warehouse and warp off. Fighting the Blood Raiders is a waste of time for the low mission rewards.
Another thing: While this sounds really awesome in theory, the reality is that the 3 or 4 variations of the banter will become very repetitive very quickly. I wonder how long we have to wait until it is possible to procedurally generate conversations that are not repetitive and still have something to do with the missions.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Pixel Piracy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2017.02.05 08:38:16 -
[3] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:While this sounds really awesome in theory, the reality is that the 3 or 4 variations of the banter will become very repetitive very quickly. I wonder how long we have to wait until it is possible to procedurally generate conversations that are not repetitive and still have something to do with the missions.
Yeah this would be the major problem. But if they had the budget to get like 50-100 odd people to voice act (heck I am pretty sure the fans would do it for free) and then randomly picked from that pool of conversations it would negate repetitiveness to a large extent. New voice talent could be added each patch / release to further diversify the resources to pick from.
In this way CCP could post out the content and host competitions for who can submit the best voice acting. Winners would obviously be immortalized in the game but may also receive other prizes. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11496
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Posted - 2017.02.05 08:43:59 -
[4] - Quote
You are aware that CCP is actually a VERY small company that employs around 300 something people (and I am honestly highballing that number too)... right?
How did you Veterans start?
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Pixel Piracy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
27
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Posted - 2017.02.05 09:07:01 -
[5] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:You are aware that CCP is actually a VERY small company that employs around 300 something people (and I am honestly highballing that number too)... right?
Well their 2009 annual report stated that they employed 600 people, twice that amount, throughout 2008-09. So unless they've dramatically culled staffing positions, which I severely doubt seeing as they are opening multiple international offices, I would be more inclined to say the number would be above 600 now.
I do agree though that it would mostly be a budget issue. That's why I raised the idea of fan made contributions. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5244
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Posted - 2017.02.05 12:13:15 -
[6] - Quote
Pixel Piracy wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:You are aware that CCP is actually a VERY small company that employs around 300 something people (and I am honestly highballing that number too)... right? Well their 2009 annual report stated that they employed 600 people, twice that amount, throughout 2008-09. So unless they've dramatically culled staffing positions, which I severely doubt seeing as they are opening multiple international offices, I would be more inclined to say the number would be above 600 now. I do agree though that it would mostly be a budget issue. That's why I raised the idea of fan made contributions.
It says on that very page that they've shut two offices since then...
And am I the only one who gets irritated with cutscenes in games after I've already seen them once? A 'teehee thank you for saving me' from the damsel 500 times is still just running damsel in distress 500 times, just with annoying voices added to it.
And how many languages would you want the voice acting in? (Actually, did they do the voiced tutorial in all five official ones?) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3746
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Posted - 2017.02.05 14:46:23 -
[7] - Quote
Pve could do with a big refresh (and i think we are at the beginning of one), but you are being naive if you think it wont be repetitive even after one. Cut scenes are nice a couple of times but are then skipped or turned of completely. This is the same with npc's opening comms. It is going to be tedious to dismiss them every time.
Voice acting is good for immersion and giving instructions but makes things difficult to keep updated and modernise. Right now if ccp want to change a mission or add a new one, anyone can write up any dialog or edit text. Its cheap, its easy. If it has voice acting in, you have to pay a voice actor to do it or you might even have to try to get hold of the same voice actor for continuity reasons, and if you can't, you have to hire a new voice actor and redo the WHOLE thing (this just happened with aura).
It may however, be feasible to create more immersive generic chatter for rats and other npc's. Race flavoured Taunts, death cries, war chants etc. Right now pirates have garbled chatter. Generic greetings and thankyous from agents would also probably be doable. Things like that.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1162
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Posted - 2017.02.05 15:23:16 -
[8] - Quote
EvE actually has sound? When did they add that?
Seriously, voice overs might make it a little less boring, until you can recall from memory every single line and say them in perfect unison with the game. So in the end why waste the dev time implementing a feature that will only eliminate the boredom for a very short period of time. It would be better for the game and all of it's players to continue to use that dev time on things that will really make a difference. |
Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
19
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Posted - 2017.02.05 15:57:42 -
[9] - Quote
These are just minor steps in between you showing up on grid, and you completing the mission objective. Eve aint Star Trek Online |
Tabyll Altol
Vision Inc Hole Control
181
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Posted - 2017.02.08 12:29:51 -
[10] - Quote
Most players mant a max income the won-Št care for anything other than this. Because PVE just gives you the ISK for your PvP ships.
If you want different PVE content go step out of Highsec and go to LS/0.0/WH.
-1 |
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Cade Windstalker
742
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Posted - 2017.02.08 15:59:15 -
[11] - Quote
This sounds great, and probably would be the first time.
After about the dozenth time seeing the same coms message most players would probably start looking for a way to turn off the audio at the least. So now we have an expensive to produce feature that adds very little in the long run.
IMO this really isn't a worthwhile use of CCP's time and resources. |
Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2017.02.08 17:15:34 -
[12] - Quote
SWTOR has to be the most immersive MMO I have ever played. The story is downright amazing, the interaction is amazing, the only reason I left was because the story ran out. And because my Inquisitor stopped being a wrecking ball of immeasurable proportions.
In the end, in spite of all of this immersion, the PVE was still repetitive. Still grindy. Still the same old **** different day.
PVE will always be that way.
If they could somehow (and I know this would be insanely impossible to actually implement) use the PVE to create very limited PVP engagements, I would imagine that you'd see a lot more enjoyment from it.
For example... the burner missions. Great concept, good way to introduce a player to the idea behind PVP (fighting things that are as strong or stronger than you, and quite possibly losing your ship until you know how to beat the PVE portion).
Imagine that all of the Lvl 4 missions had a chance for the burners to show up. Just like in low/null when a pirate warps in.
Heck, if you're in a deadspace pocket they could even make the burner show up in "local" 5-10 seconds before they warp to your mission site and start pushing your raven's poop in.
The unpredictability removes the grind. You can't just mindlessly F1 anymore.
It's not "immersion" in the sense of the OP, but it is at least a reduction in the incessant grind that PVE offers.
Edit: Imagine that all of the lvl 4 missions had about a 30%-50% chance for the burners to show up. Random burners, so you can't just hard-counter them the same as the actual burner missions.
Edit 2: The burners would have a hefty bounty on them relative to the missions, but they'll warp off when they're near death. So you need to point them. |
Cade Windstalker
747
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Posted - 2017.02.08 19:44:01 -
[13] - Quote
Old Pervert wrote:SWTOR has to be the most immersive MMO I have ever played. The story is downright amazing, the interaction is amazing, the only reason I left was because the story ran out. And because my Inquisitor stopped being a wrecking ball of immeasurable proportions. In the end, in spite of all of this immersion, the PVE was still repetitive. Still grindy. Still the same old **** different day. PVE will always be that way. If they could somehow (and I know this would be insanely impossible to actually implement) use the PVE to create very limited PVP engagements, I would imagine that you'd see a lot more enjoyment from it. For example... the burner missions. Great concept, good way to introduce a player to the idea behind PVP (fighting things that are as strong or stronger than you, and quite possibly losing your ship until you know how to beat the PVE portion). Imagine that all of the Lvl 4 missions had a chance for the burners to show up. Just like in low/null when a pirate warps in.Heck, if you're in a deadspace pocket they could even make the burner show up in "local" 5-10 seconds before they warp to your mission site and start pushing your raven's poop in. The unpredictability removes the grind. You can't just mindlessly F1 anymore. It's not "immersion" in the sense of the OP, but it is at least a reduction in the incessant grind that PVE offers. Edit: Imagine that all of the lvl 4 missions had about a 30%-50% chance for the burners to show up. Random burners, so you can't just hard-counter them the same as the actual burner missions. Edit 2: The burners would have a hefty bounty on them relative to the missions, but they'll warp off when they're near death. So you need to point them.
The problem with this, and pretty much every "make PvE more interesting by adding risk" idea is that PvE still needs to be a net gain for the player engaging in it. If I'm running Level 4s in a cheap 200m battleship and I've got a 50% chance of losing my ship to a super-NPC every mission then I'd better be making more than 400m per mission or I'm not going to touch that with a 10ft pole. That's the reason CCP made the Burner Missions entirely optional, because they require fairly specialized ships and if you go in without one you are absolutely going to get take apart.
The same would go for any kind of PvE that incorporated PvP vs other players. Since someone is basically guaranteed to lose their ship in the affair you would need to make the reward consumant to the risk in some way.
Overall it feels like the best way for CCP to go with this stuff has been group content solutions. It lets CCP amp up the difficulty to the point where a single ship either can't complete the content or has such a hard time doing so that the most economical solution is to bring friends. It's worked in Wormholes and Incursions and both have showed more long term viability and community than Level 4s ever did.
Throw something like that into Null that requires a fleet and pushes people to move around outside of a small pocket (which may bring you into conflict with others) and you have a pretty good recipe for content soup. There's even been indications already from CCP that they want end-game PvE in Null to be more group focused. |
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
677
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Posted - 2017.02.09 09:28:15 -
[14] - Quote
whatever PVE added to the game, after doing it a couple of times, will be boring, grindy and won't be immersive.
Just Add Water
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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
392
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Posted - 2017.02.09 10:27:47 -
[15] - Quote
Pixel Piracy wrote:Rivr Luzade wrote:While this sounds really awesome in theory, the reality is that the 3 or 4 variations of the banter will become very repetitive very quickly. I wonder how long we have to wait until it is possible to procedurally generate conversations that are not repetitive and still have something to do with the missions. Yeah this would be the major problem. But if they had the budget to get like 50-100 odd people to voice act (heck I am pretty sure the fans would do it for free) and then randomly picked from that pool of conversations it would negate repetitiveness to a large extent. New voice talent could be added each patch / release to further diversify the resources to pick from. In this way CCP could post out the content and host competitions for who can submit the best voice acting. Winners would obviously be immortalized in the game but may also receive other prizes.
ha ccp with a budget, that's funny.
it'd just go out the window into the volcanos of Iceland with the half-made/failed games they have done and the rest of their stupid ideas they come up with while they magically become a 1b company like my robotics company I used to work at.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2017.02.09 11:39:12 -
[16] - Quote
Nice idea, imagine some love for the mission runners... sadly CCP guidelines seem to be...
* Do the big corps/alliances want it?
* Will it make the big corps/alliances happy?
If the answer is no to either or yes to both, it wont ever happen. |
Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
23
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Posted - 2017.02.09 13:24:37 -
[17] - Quote
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance wrote: Nice idea, imagine some love for the mission runners... sadly CCP guidelines seem to be...
* Do the big corps/alliances want it?
* Will it make the big corps/alliances happy?
If the answer is no to either or yes to both, it wont ever happen.
Grow up.
I wouldn't be against more missions with randomized spawn chains, I would not agree to burners showing up in the middle of a fit I'm equipped exactly the opposite for, I don't see that improving anything. Do you want to make PvE interesting by making it more dangerous?
New players don't get this quick but if you're not sold on PvE combat now, it's never going to get more exciting. I like missions and ratting but they're essentially the same process. The content will get tougher and more profitable, but it's important to be realistic and understand that the vast majority of PvE is going to be showing up on grid and cleaning house, rinse, repeat. |
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