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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5291
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Posted - 2017.02.05 20:55:44 -
[1] - Quote
Now that CCP has opened the door for paid content (skill extractors and injectors) and expanded this to include CONCORD ships (available with the purchase of EVE FanFest and EVE Vegas tickets), maybe we'll start seeing some unique paid content available exclusively for $$ or Aurum (not unlike other games with micro transactions).
Ah yes, I can already feel the arteries hardening in the most vehement of EVE purists... "Not in my sandbox!" Yeah, well - we've heard the same argument before... Being able to extract skills was going to kill EVE... then F2P was going to kill EVE. Strangely enough, EVE appears to be thriving at the moment.
My suggestion is to introduce an option to purchase a re-sculpting for either Drifter or Jove for Aurum. This could be purely cosmetic or offer a few perks with some disadvantages (additional ship bonuses at the expense of reduced skill training, as an example). In addition, offer a powerful frigate, cruiser and battleship variant of each race for general play (also with Aurum). Most if not all of these ship models are already in-game - so most of the work is already in-place (although some might need updating).
While these wouldn't be as powerful as AT ships they would be more powerful than anything currently able to be manufactured in-game. There would also be no insurance on these ships, so caveat emptor. Only Drifter or Jove characters would be able to board and fly these ships, and Drifter and Jove characters would feature a permanent suspect status (making them eligible for attack from anyone - anywhere).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5244
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Posted - 2017.02.05 21:46:03 -
[2] - Quote
I do hope you have fire insurance on that clone. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1954
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Posted - 2017.02.05 22:23:08 -
[3] - Quote
Them trolls
Akrasjel Lanate
Founder and CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
19
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Posted - 2017.02.06 13:44:18 -
[4] - Quote
While we're at it I'll take sleeper ships and that rogue drone domi, as a payed extra of course.
-10 for content locked behind anything but your isk wallet |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3727
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Posted - 2017.02.06 14:11:01 -
[5] - Quote
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote: -10 for content locked behind anything but your isk wallet
You are a little late for that m8
To be honest the ops point isn't outlandish
I can remember thinking (no way eve will have micro transactions) or no way eve will become f2p
Hell ccp even tried to go for dailies. At the end of the day there are fewer and fewer devs that care about what eve is and more that care about how much it can make them
BLOPS Hauler
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Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
93
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Posted - 2017.02.06 15:03:48 -
[6] - Quote
Can't we just get rid of skill injectors and extractors and have ccp apologize for the mistake?
If they add jove it needs to be for everyone for character creation, and that just means a free resculpt for everyone. Thats the best option. |
Cade Windstalker
737
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Posted - 2017.02.06 15:19:58 -
[7] - Quote
I think you got at least part of your info wrong OP. The fanfest ships are purely cosmetic. They don't offer any of the ridiculousness of a real POLARIS frigate or anything of the sort. Injectors are functionally no different from buying a character, this just lets you do it one piece at a time and pick your name instead of ending up with your titan pilot named "McGuffin McCheeseToes" because that was the best price you could find.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:To be honest the ops point isn't outlandish
I can remember thinking (no way eve will have micro transactions) or no way eve will become f2p
Hell ccp even tried to go for dailies. At the end of the day there are fewer and fewer devs that care about what eve is and more that care about how much it can make them
Lugh, no one is getting rich making Eve. The game needs to pay its devs and server costs though, and if we want Eve to keep growing and developing it needs to keep up with the times. We've been seeing falling populations for years now, not particularly due to anything CCP have done but just due to normal MMO attrition. People have been complaining for CCP to do something for years and they have, we've had 10k more daily average in the last few months than we have for the last few years. On top of that we're seeing some of the older gang of players poking back in to check on things now that they can log in and poke around without paying for PLEX.
The idea that Eve has to remain what it's always been is just blind nostalgia.
At the same time though just because Eve has done a few things in one direction doesn't mean we should be rushing down the slippery slope like OP is suggesting. Offering blatant P2W dreck like this is just bad practice that Eve doesn't need. It's barely working for the F2P MMOs that are doing it, and to Eve it would just kill the game. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3729
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Posted - 2017.02.06 15:26:09 -
[8] - Quote
With alphas eve already has blatant pay to win. No matter how hard people want to try to twist definitions to somehow find a way they can bend their brain to make it not so.
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
737
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Posted - 2017.02.06 15:37:02 -
[9] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:With alphas eve already has blatant pay to win. No matter how hard people want to try to twist definitions to somehow find a way they can bend their brain to make it not so.
Alphas are a limited trial, that doesn't make "Omega" suddenly "pay to win" it's just the default state of the game. When Alphas didn't exist we didn't call Omegas pay to win, so there's no reason we should start now just because CCP have created an unlimited time but limited function trial state.
Besides that we all know that giving people the ability to make fully functional free characters would be abused to Jove and back by the playerbase, so it's not like anyone is claiming that limiting Alphas was a bad decision, except maybe some of the new Alphas who aren't used to Eve yet. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1593
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:14:25 -
[10] - Quote
But all the noobs kept complaining they "need" 500 million skillpoints on day one so they can fly zee titan and win.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3731
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:19:47 -
[11] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:With alphas eve already has blatant pay to win. No matter how hard people want to try to twist definitions to somehow find a way they can bend their brain to make it not so. Alphas are a limited trial, that doesn't make "Omega" suddenly "pay to win" it's just the default state of the game. When Alphas didn't exist we didn't call Omegas pay to win, so there's no reason we should start now just because CCP have created an unlimited time but limited function trial state. Besides that we all know that giving people the ability to make fully functional free characters would be abused to Jove and back by the playerbase, so it's not like anyone is claiming that limiting Alphas was a bad decision, except maybe some of the new Alphas who aren't used to Eve yet.
and thats where ppl start the twisting
p2w = bad
alphas were not bad
so alpha is not p2w
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
737
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Posted - 2017.02.06 16:43:25 -
[12] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:and thats where ppl start the twisting p2w = bad alphas were not bad so alpha is not p2w
No... that wasn't my point. Let me see if I can rephrase things in a way that's more clear.
Alphas are a limited trial, nothing more and nothing less. If you want the full functionality of the game then you have to pay for it, like with hundreds of other games and products throughout history.
This does not make Omegas "pay to win" it makes them the full intended state of the game without the trial. You could have, in theory, played Eve for years on a series of three month trial accounts, but that didn't make Eve pay to win then any more than Alphas do now.
Pay to win would be if I, as a normal PLEXing player who isn't actually paying anything, could pay CCP for something that can only be gotten through a payment of real life money and gives me a distinct material advantage over someone who doesn't pay for that item and is incapable of earning it otherwise.
Basically if I could pay for a SKIN that gave my ship 1% more to all resists or something.
That would be pay to win, the Alpha/Omega distinction isn't, it's just a trial state and no more creates a pay 2 win system than the old trial system did. |
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1110
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:00:30 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Now that CCP has opened the door for paid content (skill extractors and injectors) and expanded this to include CONCORD ships (available with the purchase of EVE FanFest and EVE Vegas tickets), maybe we'll start seeing some unique paid content available exclusively for $$ or Aurum (not unlike other games with micro transactions).
Ah yes, I can already feel the arteries hardening in the most vehement of EVE purists... "Not in my sandbox!" Yeah, well - we've heard the same argument before... Being able to extract skills was going to kill EVE... then F2P was going to kill EVE. Strangely enough, EVE appears to be thriving at the moment.
My suggestion is to introduce an option to purchase a re-sculpting for either Drifter or Jove for Aurum. This could be purely cosmetic or offer a few perks with some disadvantages (additional ship bonuses at the expense of reduced skill training, as an example). In addition, offer a powerful frigate, cruiser and battleship variant of each race for general play (also with Aurum). Most if not all of these ship models are already in-game - so most of the work is already in-place (although some might need updating).
While these wouldn't be as powerful as AT ships they would be more powerful than anything currently able to be manufactured in-game. There would also be no insurance on these ships, so caveat emptor. Only Drifter or Jove characters would be able to board and fly these ships, and Drifter and Jove characters would feature a permanent suspect status (making them eligible for attack from anyone - anywhere).
Purchasable ships yes as long as you can get them in game as well....say from concord or introduce bailing mechanic on NPC so you can attack and then board ship if npc decided to bail it.
Drifter face yes perks no i for one would pay a wagon of cash to fly old tempest fleet model(updated of course) and others as aurum exclusive mk I.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2474
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:13:58 -
[14] - Quote
Alphas are a trial character that is limited in ability but unlimited in the time of use. You have to be careful with generic terms that can have opposite meanings for the same thing.
The key word is TRIAL account. The real confusion comes into play when folks operating a TRIAL ALPHA account think they deserve anything more than they already have.
OP - stop trolling. You've been on this forum long enough (you actually stated it) to know the response your blatant play to win suggestion will evoke. I call troll because you put in zero time and zero effort in fleshing out the idea. You just threw a rotten apple in the barrel and walked away. If you're really serious about your idea - put some effort into it and do it right.
Recommend closing an obvious troll post that lacks any semblance of depth, forethought or effort. (It's a poor product even by trolling standards). |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5313
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:14:27 -
[15] - Quote
No, the default state is now Alpha - which is free to play. Previously when your subscription lapsed character training was suspended. Now it just defaults to a reduced rate, altered skillset and ship and module limitations.
EVE has always had pay2win features - PLEX being the prime example, but we also had the Character Bazarr (which most seem to forget about). Now we have Skill Extractors (and as a result, Skill Injectors). The Chinese Serenity server has paid remaps and paid name changes - and we already have paid character resculpts. We have numerous paid vanity items like ship SKINs and apparel, and while these may not have the same effect they are paid microtransactions nonetheless.
There is nothing inherently wrong with offering paid content, because you can still accomplish the same in-game through hard work or acquiring said items in the marketplace. CCP already offers free ships as part of various bundles, and while these may not be the greatest - they weren't player manufactured, either. If the concern of introducing more powerful ship variants into EVE is that they aren't player produced then the answer is simple: Sell single-run blueprint copies that need to be manufactured.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Cade Windstalker
738
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:28:56 -
[16] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:No, the default state is now Alpha - which is free to play. Previously when your subscription lapsed character training was suspended. Now it just defaults to a reduced rate, altered skillset and ship and module limitations.
EVE has always had pay2win features - PLEX being the prime example, but we also had the Character Bazarr (which most seem to forget about). Now we have Skill Extractors (and as a result, Skill Injectors). The Chinese Serenity server has paid remaps and paid name changes - and we already have paid character resculpts. We have numerous paid vanity items like ship SKINs and apparel, and while these may not have the same effect they are paid microtransactions nonetheless.
There is nothing inherently wrong with offering paid content, because you can still accomplish the same in-game through hard work or acquiring said items in the marketplace. CCP already offers free ships as part of various bundles, and while these may not be the greatest - they weren't player manufactured, either. If the concern of introducing more powerful ship variants into EVE is that they aren't player produced then the answer is simple: Sell single-run blueprint copies that need to be manufactured.
OP, Alpha is not the default state it's the ground state, the lowest possible way to be playing the game other than not having an account at all. The way the game is intended to be played is still in a payed form. That's what the game is designed around and the way that the vast majority of players logging in everyday play.
PLEX has never been particularly pay ot win. It lets you get money off of other players, but it doesn't let you do anything you couldn't with enough time and effort. Even Skill Injectors are only a more piecemeal form of the Character Bazaar.
Also don't hold up the Chinese server as an example that Tranquility should be following. It's a completely different server catering to a different culture and clientele and not under CCP's direct management. Just because something is accepted over there doesn't mean it should be on TQ.
OP you also seem to be missing something that you yourself almost state here. Nothing that CCP has ever put into the game through paid content is more powerful than things acquired normally, in fact everything that I can think of (and apparently you as well) is worse or purely for vanity. The one time something CCP gave out got used in a broken away, the Luxury Yacht, they precision nerfed that application of the thing.
Selling a BP for real money is no different from selling the ship, that's purely window dressing on a bad idea, which is that something inherently better than what is normally available can be paid for with real money to be acquired. That's just a bad idea from start to finish.
So, just to be clear OP, the issue with your idea is the bit where you want to sell OP ships for real money. It doesn't matter if it's a blueprint, it doesn't matter if it's the hull whole hog. The problem is that you're advocating for 'gold ammo' in the game. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5314
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Posted - 2017.02.06 17:30:38 -
[17] - Quote
You're forgetting about the CONCORD ships.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Cade Windstalker
738
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Posted - 2017.02.06 20:34:55 -
[18] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:You're forgetting about the CONCORD ships.
I'm not, we've seen zero indication that those ships are going to be anything like as powerful as actual CONCORD ships. They flat out say:
Quote:...this vessel has its CONCORD subsystems stripped out...
Anyone expecting these things to be more powerful than the Gnosis and the like are likely to be disappointed. CCP also said at Eve Vegas there would be another way to get these ships, so they're not purely for money either. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1594
|
Posted - 2017.02.06 21:02:09 -
[19] - Quote
If anyone else thinking that McGuffin McCheeseToes would be an great name for a character?
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5321
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Posted - 2017.02.06 21:16:14 -
[20] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Anyone expecting these things to be more powerful than the Gnosis and the like are likely to be disappointed. CCP also said at Eve Vegas there would be another way to get these ships, so they're not purely for money either. Time will tell I guess.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Cade Windstalker
739
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Posted - 2017.02.06 22:05:06 -
[21] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Anyone expecting these things to be more powerful than the Gnosis and the like are likely to be disappointed. CCP also said at Eve Vegas there would be another way to get these ships, so they're not purely for money either. Time will tell I guess.
I look forward to someone who is totally not your alt complaining on the forums about how not-powerful these CONCORD hulls are and all the money paid to get one in six months time
(seriously though, whether it's you or not, we both know *someone* is going to be making that thread...) |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5321
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Posted - 2017.02.06 22:59:57 -
[22] - Quote
I have a feeling they will be on par or close to Faction equivalents, but you may be entirely correct. If I was attending EVE FanFest and EVE Vegas this probably wouldn't be a bad deal. Otherwise, it kind of seems like a waste to deny tickets to someone that really wants to attend just to obtain a ship that I'm not necessarily crazy about.
That being said, I'd drop some serious coin on something like a T3 State Raven Battleship.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
19
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Posted - 2017.02.07 13:27:15 -
[23] - Quote
Is this discussion about adding an enhanced race with special ships for real money or is that Star Trek Online bullsh-t over with? |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5334
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Posted - 2017.02.07 13:29:20 -
[24] - Quote
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:Is this discussion about adding an enhanced race with special ships for real money or is that Star Trek Online bullsh-t over with? Never played it, so I really don't have a frame of reference.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Cristl
531
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Posted - 2017.02.07 19:28:05 -
[25] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:With alphas eve already has blatant pay to win. No matter how hard people want to try to twist definitions to somehow find a way they can bend their brain to make it not so. Alphas are a limited trial, that doesn't make "Omega" suddenly "pay to win" it's just the default state of the game. When Alphas didn't exist we didn't call Omegas pay to win, so there's no reason we should start now just because CCP have created an unlimited time but limited function trial state. Besides that we all know that giving people the ability to make fully functional free characters would be abused to Jove and back by the playerbase, so it's not like anyone is claiming that limiting Alphas was a bad decision, except maybe some of the new Alphas who aren't used to Eve yet. and thats where ppl start the twisting p2w = bad alphas were not bad so alpha is not p2w Just pointing out that this is a classically valid logical argument.
"p2w = bad" I assume means: p2w is a subset of the set-of-bad-things (maybe picture a Venn diagram with a big oval containing bad things (murder, arson, jaywalking...) with a small oval (p2w games) in it.
"Alphas were not bad" states that alphas are outside the big oval
"so alpha is not p2w" so if we're outside the superset (bad things), then we can infer that we're outside the subset (p2w games).
This is proof by modus tollens.
Anyway, Lengthy Lessons in Logic for Lugh aside, Eve has always had some element of pay to win (can cash real money for better ships, mods and characters). Adding alphas really didn't change this. I don't feel they were added as seamlessly as possible, but here we all are. They are irrelevant to any p2w argument: they're an extended trial and/or way for super-casuals to add to the Eve universe. |
Cade Windstalker
740
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Posted - 2017.02.07 19:29:53 -
[26] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I have a feeling they will be on par or close to Faction equivalents, but you may be entirely correct. If I was attending EVE FanFest and EVE Vegas this probably wouldn't be a bad deal. Otherwise, it kind of seems like a waste to deny tickets to someone that really wants to attend just to obtain a ship that I'm not necessarily crazy about.
That being said, I'd drop some serious coin on something like a T3 State Raven Battleship.
Given that we have the Sunesis and Gnosis as reference points I wouldn't expect anything more powerful than that just in a bigger hull. Both of those ships are perfectly decent, and have their acolytes, but neither is particularly OP or above and beyond anything else in the game.
Quote:T3 State Raven Battleship.
*twitch twitch twitch*
I'm sorry, I think I had a small seizure there....
Just oh gods no. That is the *last* thing Eve needs. The last thing we heard from CCP on T3 Battleships was "no, that would be broken" and thank $#%# they've held to it. (and before anyone points at the T3Ds they said at the same time that they were looking at smaller T3 ships, so that still holds) |
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