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The Larold
Living in Silicon Valley Is Too Expensive
73
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Posted - 2017.02.07 16:08:10 -
[1] - Quote
I'm curious how many of you out there feel "dirty" when you're not training at an optimal SP rate? For high-sec only folks, I would imagine 2,700 SP/hour is a regular thing. For null-sec and PvP folks, I can imagine "optimal" is using perhaps +3 or +4 implants.
For example, If I was mapped Int / Mem, I would be willing to train the following types of skills indefinitely: Int / Mem skils Int / x skills (e.g. Navigation stuff) Mem / Int skills (e.g. production stuff)
However, once I drop below 2,520 SP / hour, I start to feel really inefficient. (Yes, I realize this is somewhat ridiculous and restrictive.) But I'm almost never willing to train anything for more than a day or two at a sub-optimal rate. If I am desperate to unlock something, I'll buy an injector or two.
I'm curious how you all think in terms of what you're going to train sub-optimally, for how long, and how you deal with being mapped to one thing, but really needing a different set of skills - say - a set that requires 5+ injectors. I'm wondering if there are folks out there as OCD as I am.
I've been mapped to Perc / Will for about a year and a half, and I've probably spent no more than 48 hours training at less than 2,520 SP / hour. Injectors here and there.
And yes, I think it's things like this that strongly show a need for removing attributes.
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1208
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Posted - 2017.02.07 16:12:49 -
[2] - Quote
When I first started, I obsessed over my attributes and getting the most SP for my subscription but when it always came time to press the buttons - I chickened out. I did do the PER/INT remap that was and maybe still is the recommended new player setup. After a while, now that my supporting skills are good enough and I can fly anything that I want to, I hardly even look at my skill queue anymore.
@lunettelulu7
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Ayx Shewma
The Scope Gallente Federation
139
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Posted - 2017.02.07 17:07:11 -
[3] - Quote
The Larold wrote:I'm curious how many of you out there feel "dirty"
...
However, once I drop below 2,520 SP / hour, I start to feel really inefficient. .....If I am desperate to unlock something, I'll buy an injector or two.
.... I'm wondering if there are folks out there as OCD as I am.
...
Seriously, you might need medication
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1244
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Posted - 2017.02.07 17:11:39 -
[4] - Quote
It used to not be an issue for me when I first started playing as we really had no clue what was available. +5s were mythical implants and the learning skills werent even known about for months if not a year or two for us, then became mandatory and after that it became more meaningful.
I can see how for new people or the OCD it might be an issue but by now for me I just add skills. ET has a skill queue of 744 days 9h 33m and 50s. After a certain point its like what else can I ADD to the queue.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2017.02.07 17:28:18 -
[5] - Quote
Since the "Training Skills" went away I find I'm much more calm about the whole thing, and the difference between optimal and pessimal training could be overcome by throwing a skill injector at it, so I don't feel like "I'm gonna die if I don't get every possible skillpoint" the way I did in the beginning.
On a somewhat related note, I think would be cool would be if CCP would start letting Omega players have a second character on the account train in parallel for free at Alpha (half speed) rates. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
814
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Posted - 2017.02.07 17:43:03 -
[6] - Quote
I stopped caring what or how fast I train a long time ago.. Usually sitting in an all-5 clone with remapping to a group of skills (int/mem right now) and then I just train all the skills in one category that I remotely care about from top to bottom.. Jump cloning whenever I want to do something else (HG crystal for my blops).
I do the same with my alts. Just remapping to something and then training from top to bottom for the sake of training something..
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5343
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Posted - 2017.02.07 17:52:03 -
[7] - Quote
With skill injectors and the occasional accelerator it's less of an issue now.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1595
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Posted - 2017.02.07 17:55:33 -
[8] - Quote
Are there people as OCD about min/maxing as you are? Yes, I am sure there are.
Will CCP change the game to make you feel better about your skill point accumulation mini game? FFS I hope not. Attribute choice is really the only meaningful long term decision you have with your character any more. And as others have noted, sub optimal arrangements can be overcome by injectors, if you really feel like you're missing out.
I train what I need. Unless the remap is going to save me three or four days, I generally don't worry about it. But when you're training skills that take 20 days, saving half a day is like "Meh".
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Order of Contention
15
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Posted - 2017.02.07 18:01:21 -
[9] - Quote
Attributes and player optimization of skill training times adds a minor degree of depth to the game. They are something that you don't need to pay attention to, but that for those willing to put in the effort/resources can give you a competitive edge. We don't need CCP to water down the game further by removing functions like this, even if they seem minor. Details make the game. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1463
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Posted - 2017.02.07 18:05:19 -
[10] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:...I hardly even look at my skill queue anymore.
This.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Keno Skir
1253
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Posted - 2017.02.07 18:09:19 -
[11] - Quote
I would have way more SP right now if i cared at all about my training rate, but since actual skills count for loads more than SP i try to focus on what really matters rather than some arbitrary SP/s rate
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
<Gùï> Contact me regarding my trusted Alliance Creation Service <Gùï>
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Lena Crews
Cynosural Edge Curatores Veritatis Alliance
57
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Posted - 2017.02.07 18:13:12 -
[12] - Quote
The Larold wrote:I'm curious how many of you out there feel "dirty" when you're not training at an optimal SP rate? For high-sec only folks, I would imagine 2,700 SP/hour is a regular thing. For null-sec and PvP folks, I can imagine "optimal" is using perhaps +3 or +4 implants.
For example, If I was mapped Int / Mem, I would be willing to train the following types of skills indefinitely: Int / Mem skils Int / x skills (e.g. Navigation stuff) Mem / Int skills (e.g. production stuff)
However, once I drop below 2,520 SP / hour, I start to feel really inefficient. (Yes, I realize this is somewhat ridiculous and restrictive.) But I'm almost never willing to train anything for more than a day or two at a sub-optimal rate. If I am desperate to unlock something, I'll buy an injector or two.
I'm curious how you all think in terms of what you're going to train sub-optimally, for how long, and how you deal with being mapped to one thing, but really needing a different set of skills - say - a set that requires 5+ injectors. I'm wondering if there are folks out there as OCD as I am.
I've been mapped to Perc / Will for about a year and a half, and I've probably spent no more than 48 hours training at less than 2,520 SP / hour. Injectors here and there.
And yes, I think it's things like this that strongly show a need for removing attributes.
When I played years ago I was really hung up on skill training speed.
Now... I don't really care. I have enough skills to fly "good enough" ships to do what I want. Taking a few extra days to train a skill to V isn't going to bust me up much.
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
70
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Posted - 2017.02.07 18:20:52 -
[13] - Quote
Besides SP farming what do you need optimal training speed for? I did a remap early with this character, and then I reset it back to a more even spread once I realized that I train what I want to train, based on what I want to do in the game.
SP optimization in my mind has and will always be about getting an alt up to speed as quickly as possible, so you can start plexing that account as soon as possible. |
Sweet Adamas
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2017.02.07 19:26:55 -
[14] - Quote
When you are really young you want 2700sp because you have so many core skills to train.
Once you have them plus some offensive skills you start to not care as much |
Uncle Bork
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2017.02.07 19:34:04 -
[15] - Quote
I was always more concerned about waking up at the right time to swtich my skills so I wouldn't lose time, but that was a ways back in time. I also forgot all about the learning skills. I don't even bohter with them now. I grab a set of risk appropriate implants and chaarge forward.
Five-minute EVE
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Cade Windstalker
741
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Posted - 2017.02.07 19:47:33 -
[16] - Quote
If anything I'm the opposite of most of the people in this thread. The more SP I've gotten the less reason I've had to train things non-optimally. Since I already have almost all of the "necessary" stuff for what I want to do a little more waiting for something new, better, or extra doesn't bug me much so I try to stay as close to optimal training as much as I can. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1596
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Posted - 2017.02.07 19:54:36 -
[17] - Quote
I know this may horrify some people but I have a character ending training tonight at midnight, and it will be 6 am tomorrow before I actually start up the other queue on that account.
Because I, like the honey badger, have 0 ***** to give.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Order of Contention
17
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Posted - 2017.02.07 20:13:27 -
[18] - Quote
Elenahina wrote: > character ending training tonight at midnight, and it will be 6 am tomorrow before I actually start up the other queue on that account.
*horrified screeching ensues* |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2532
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Posted - 2017.02.07 20:45:45 -
[19] - Quote
I think I did amarr tactical destroyer from 0 to 5 on an int/mem remap, and infomorph psyc to 5 and a few levels of advanced. beyond that I have the SP I'm not too worried either way. I don't feel like I need to train most stuff that comes out immediately, and most of the old stuff I already have trained. if it is a good skill I'll train it off remap.
I'm under 7days on my drone remap and it will be a per/wp after that to catch up on all the new skills like the other tactical destroyers, t2 cap guns, command destroyers, and other skills like non amarr carriers. After that probably do a leadership remap, and then after that who knows what as CCP adds stuff over the next year or two.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1244
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Posted - 2017.02.07 20:58:24 -
[20] - Quote
This thread does make me wonder if people would want to buy skill injectors, not extractors, from CCP directly if or when CCP would add new skills for players for a very short time span and only to train those specific new skills?
Atm the SP loss for new skills with injectors is hampered by the relative SP age of a pilot but Im curious how people would feel if this could be limitedly circumvented through a direct purchase.
Just thinking out loud. Flame away.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
11498
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Posted - 2017.02.07 21:03:10 -
[21] - Quote
I think I have been training at an average rate of 2000 /hr.
Mostly because I train based on what I need at the moment and keep my attributes stuck on Perception/Intel (for flexibility reasons).
Implants? I either use pirate implant sets for performance reasons or no implants at all. The attribute gain from the pirate sets are just a bonus in my mind.
I will get the skills I want sooner or later. I would rather focus my attention on the game itself.
How did you Veterans start?
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Akane Togenada
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
35
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Posted - 2017.02.07 21:03:45 -
[22] - Quote
Did a generalist remap (Int 23, Per 21, Mem 21) when I started and am not gonna change it. For my exploration training a (Int 27, Mem 21) would probably have been better but I see the slightly slower training as an advantage since it allows me to get better at the game before having trained into the more expensive ships and modules.
Generalist remap gives me peace of mind since I don-¦t have to think about anything else then to ensure the training queue is never empty. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5346
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Posted - 2017.02.07 21:05:45 -
[23] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: This thread does make me wonder if people would want to buy skill injectors, not extractors, from CCP directly if or when CCP would add new skills for players for a very short time span and only to train those specific new skills? Atm the SP loss for new skills with injectors is hampered by the relative SP age of a pilot but Im curious how people would feel if this could be limitedly circumvented through a direct purchase. Just thinking out loud. Flame away. I'm not sure if it would have any effect on the market - at least initially. At some point it might crash it due to unlimited SP being seeded, but this is just speculative.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Jax Bederen
Dark Horse Deux
304
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Posted - 2017.02.08 11:12:58 -
[24] - Quote
Left my in the same position as i started. Never felt dirty, never cared enough. Oh, look a injector... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10518
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Posted - 2017.02.09 05:32:45 -
[25] - Quote
Every once in a while, like when I read a thread like this, I am reminded to log in and train something.
But for the most part, I don't have a skill training more often than I do. Though as a forum alt I don't really need any skills other than wit and a thick skin.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Lianara Dayton
Society for Peace and Unity
50
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Posted - 2017.02.09 08:57:46 -
[26] - Quote
I'm currently at a point where I don't really care about skills on my mains so SP/h is largely irrelevant to me (I don't even bother with non-combat implants most of the time).
The only characters I care about SP/h are the ones that are on a limited subscription (such as the three accounts that I got 120 free multi-training bonus days on and want to complete certain skills within that time frame - which is actually a joke since I could just PLEX them if required).
On my alpha accounts I really don't give a damn. I'm only training them up because of some strange sense of completionism (I want a fully trained alpha character of each race) or with some vague idea of giving the characters to friends that I want to get hooked to EVE some time in the future (but I doubt that's ever gonna happen so meh).
Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1112
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Posted - 2017.02.09 09:02:42 -
[27] - Quote
2000/h 140mil+ sp
on / off cant complain.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
18350
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Posted - 2017.02.09 10:30:31 -
[28] - Quote
Train the skills, not the sp total tbh. I got caught in the sp/hr initially, and in hindsight, it cost me a lot more than the extra few hundred thousand sp were ever worth. Training a skill you don't really want just because it matches your stats is a training rate of 0 sp/hr. Once you realize that, going "off spec" is a lot more relaxed.
Also CCP should just get with the program and decouple stats from skill training altogether. It serves no good purpose, and it penalizes low sp players because they're the ones who most need diverse training plans.
Stat increasing implants can be replaced with sp/hr increasing implants ranging from +0.5% to +2.5% and the day to day job of increasing training speed can be done with lower powered cerebral enhancer boosters. (Ie not quite as good as the +10/+12 event drop boosters... Say in the +5-8 sp per minute range).
Ccp can then think up some other roles for stats like modifying module efficiency by a few per cent, or whatever, people can pick a stats combo that reflects what they actually want to do in game and get on with playing it.
"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."
Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
290
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Posted - 2017.02.09 15:36:02 -
[29] - Quote
"How long are you willing to train at non-optimum rate?" Roughly 10s. The time it takes to plug in new implants and adjust skill queue after a remap.
I still havent trained common int/mem skills that were added a few years ago, like armor layering and sensor compensation, becuase i was mapped for per/will for over 3 years. That means i would rather wait 3 years till my skill plan switches attributes than training inefficiently. |
Tanuki Kittybeta
Ripperoni in Pepperoni Trigger Warnings
85
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Posted - 2017.02.10 04:33:13 -
[30] - Quote
ive never obsessed over perfect skill training. ive always been at sub optimal pace since i started. i can already fly everything i want to and i'm just 3 months from being able to fly a titan even tho i will never get into one lol |
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