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Amanda Wilkins
Caldari Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:11:00 -
[31]
Originally by: D Jed Warp to 0 makes me sad because it makes battleships just as safe warping through lowsec as my frigate.
That is so ******* not true. Your frig aligns nearly instantly, the BS takes a looooong time. In that time, it can be warpscrambled and webbed, if the crew on the other side knows their ****. Also... bubbles...
REAL PVP isn't ganking missionrunners in low-sec.
;-) Amanda
Amanda Wilkins CEO of Dromedary, Goat, Albatross and Fish Protector of the Bunnies of Stain
... because we DGAF! |
Tiamara
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:13:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rasahl Tlev when was the last change in this game that actually benefited pvpers?
"fixing" loggoff*snip*? "reducing" lag during fleet battle? changing gangs to fleets?
Fixed it for you. -Ivan K
I feel that I can make a good summary of this.
lol noob.
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gamertrav
Momentum. Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:16:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cipher7
They have never nerfed PVP because Eve has never had PVP. blah blah blah
I have to say you're totally wrong here. I've had many even fights in EVE, some won, some lost. I had fun in all of them though :)
As for warp to zero, I don't see the problem. Like someone said theres 2 sides to a gate, I actually think it's easier to get someone as they warp away from the gate, since they start at 0m/s. Besides, most people had instas before anyway and there's still dictors and warp bubbles also...
Hitpoint increase made basically no difference in PVP (except on capitals), unless you are fighting 1 on 1, and even then it just lasts a bit longer, it's not any harder/easier
Probing mission runners, okay it's a bit harder to do now, but that gives you more "prey" willing to do missions in low-sec. I tend to prefer enemies that shoot back anyway, it's a lot more fun IMO :)
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Interfekter
Minmatar Vitae Mecha
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:20:00 -
[34]
personally i think pvp has improved for everyone concernerd:)
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Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:27:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 24/04/2007 10:24:59
good PVPers are those that like to loose ships but will go in for the kill against the odds ( and a lot of the time it works Bad PVPers are those that use lots of spying and shadow tactics to avoid loosing their ship while attacking others.
JUst depends on youre views.
I disagree. The individual time for EVE and your amount of ISK will define the way of PVP at the end. The art of war is not just to run blind into a battle and sacrifice your ships. Beeing successfull in PvP means: good team work or well organized solo in a good ship with high skills and experience IMO - following some personal rules to save time and ISK at the end. Before I will engage a target I need information. Why should I warp blind into a belt in my Jag to tickle an EOS pilot just for fun and for his amusement? What kind of tactics is that in your opinion? +Yarrr ... I am a good PvPer!˝???
A good solo PvPer is someone who gathers information first, calculates the risk to engage or not especially if he is in an expensive ship. The same way a gang should do. Figure out the ship and the chance and decide fast to engage or not. For a solo player without the +rich-daddy-corp˝ every loss hurts and needs much time to spend for compensation. How many stupid braindead PvP action can I afford per day?
Personally not much.
Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Jouno
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:28:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Jouno on 24/04/2007 10:24:41
Originally by: Thoric Frosthammer So, retitle this thread "I was under the illusion that this game was supposed to make it easy for me to solo gank with my feeble skills so I could pretend to be a cool kid, why do they keep making it so it requires skill and teamwork", and you'd be closer to what you really meant I guess.
by skill and teamwork you must mean who is the first to get 500ppl in a system wins eve yay
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Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.24 10:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Amanda Wilkins
Originally by: D Jed Warp to 0 makes me sad because it makes battleships just as safe warping through lowsec as my frigate.
You think so? Even an aligned insta warp spot at a gate is bad for a BC like the Brutix. From uncloak to aligned warp spot it's still too slow. You get scrammed and webbed fast = death by chicken-hearted campers. So warp to 0km is a fair chance for the other side of the gate but it's still no guarantee to survive. The brutal truth and virtual reality.
Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:06:00 -
[38]
The ONLY thing warp to zero nerfed where the solo playing NPC corp pirates. Leave low security and go out to 0.0 or go into empire space.
Low security was never ment for the massive PvP you people seem to want there. You wanted to force empire players into low sec, never mind that is not the game they are paying for.
You wanted all the level 4 and 5 mission agents moved to low sec, never mind the mission runners would probably not use them anymore.
You wanted the roids to be increased, never mind the miners would'nt mine there.
You wanted stations... you wanted outpost...
It just seems after every patch we get the same ole grief from low security players. CCP dont want it, and the majority of the players dont want it.
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.24 11:56:00 -
[39]
Edited by: SiJira on 24/04/2007 12:01:17
Originally by: Roshan longshot The ONLY thing warp to zero nerfed where the solo playing NPC corp pirates. Leave low security and go out to 0.0 or go into empire space.
Low security was never ment for the massive PvP you people seem to want there. You wanted to force empire players into low sec, never mind that is not the game they are paying for.
You wanted all the level 4 and 5 mission agents moved to low sec, never mind the mission runners would probably not use them anymore.
You wanted the roids to be increased, never mind the miners would'nt mine there.
You wanted stations... you wanted outpost...
It just seems after every patch we get the same ole grief from low security players. CCP dont want it, and the majority of the players dont want it.
Epic post - I feel like using it in m sig - not sure wich part is best
Low security was never meant for the massive PvP you people seem to want there. You wanted to force empire players into low sec, never mind that is not the game they are paying for.
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Misanth
X-Fire
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:03:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Thoric Frosthammer So, retitle this thread "I was under the illusion that this game was supposed to make it easy for me to solo gank with my feeble skills so I could pretend to be a cool kid, why do they keep making it so it requires skill and teamwork", and you'd be closer to what you really meant I guess.
I'd love to be able to log on and just play without having to schedule and plan or join big alliances/corps.
I'm in a small corp of friends with few pvpers and would love to be able to go out and solo hunt just for the fun of it. But the people I find are in 10+ (rare cases, 5-10) gangs and no real chance for me to go up against.
If they have a blobcamp I need a bigger gang than 5-10, or at least very skilled and equipped pvpers with me, but that's not avaible among my friends.
Can only pull out my Pilgrim and hope to gang the regular dumb miners that doesn't pay attention to local.. or join some pvp (most likely a pirate) corp to get some roaming pvp.
I doubt that was the pvp many experienced when starting EvE and I doubt that's what many want to experience now.
Maybe you have your corp/alliance with 398639058345345ppl and you enjoy blobs, but some of us prefer to play with a few selected friends and was hoping this game was for more than just some people. I seriously doubt this game only need fleets, it should have at least some small opening for small gangs of 1-3ppl that roam and get to fight 1-3.
Bubbles kill everything. Battleships with nosses makes it very hard to jump it solo. Those 2 kills anything but fleet/blob-fighting.
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Zesuth
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:40:00 -
[41]
Ultima Online this game is not. Still, I'm obliged to say: "What have the romans ever done for us?"
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Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:43:00 -
[42]
There are a lot of standard "omg go flex your e-peen in counter-strike" or "you aren't a real pvper" type responses here. So I will go into more detail.
Warp To Zero: Sure, you can get them on the other side of the gate. If they don't log off, and do the "oh, look, my character disappears instantly" trick. Anyone who tells me they "fixed it" is clueless, people still disappear instantly after logging off at gates.
Also, it meant you couldn't visit any region on a whim with a huge BS gang to harass the locals. You actually had to plan (copy bookmarks, okay this was boring) but it meant if you went on a long trip you were more likely to take a fast ship that didn't need WTZ or a scout to setup the gang-WTZ, this at least took some teamwork and skill.
HP Boost: Okay, sure, some fights were getting over a bit too fast. But at least before HP boost it didn't take so damn long to kill a battleship or a battlecruiser. So you get these longer fights, unless you end up taking on a battleship solo and having his 20 friends from 2 systems away (WTZ) land on top of you, oh look, 30 second fights again!
Probing out mission runners: Okay, it is a little unfair to take on a mission runner who is doing his mission. But is it any different to killing someone NPCing in 0.0 which a lot of you "real pvpers" do? It's not.
Let's look at it this way, you've fighting a group of people who make their ISK running missions. To hurt them economically you must kill them while they do their missions. But this is difficult to do when:
a) they undock straight to their insta-undock point, safe thanks to 30 second invulnerability timer. b) they warp to their deadspace mission c) they do their mission, mean time you are smashing the analyze button - even with the right probes d) before you even get a result you discover this person has finished the mission, and has warped back to their station, at zero, and docked.
But of course, at least they haven't nerfed the "real pvp" of POS ping-pong and slide-show fleet battles much. - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
JADE DRAG0NESS
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Rasahl Tlev when was the last change in this game that actually benefited pvpers?
"fixing" loggoff*snip*? "reducing" lag during fleet battle? changing gangs to fleets?
Fixed it for you. -Ivan K
Sniff Sniff - i smell a carebear
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand |
ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.04.24 12:57:00 -
[44]
Edited by: ry ry on 24/04/2007 12:54:25
Originally by: Zesuth Ultima Online this game is not.
which is a shame.
drive-by carpentry - where people could be surrounded with, and permanently trapped by, hastily constructed pieces of furniture - was one of the best things ever to happen anywhere ever.
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Sydonis
Caldari Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:14:00 -
[45]
Oh looky... another post by 0.4 gankers who haven't the balls to step out of the shallows and go into real 0.0.
The matters you mention DID help 0.0 PVP...
WTZ - now possible to go and attack other people without falling asleep while slow-boating to a gate where your insta is off or missing...
Bubbles - dictors are one thing I don't like... but then hauling those mobiles around used to be a pain, so hey...
Reducing lag - yeah they did that to a point... it's people causing lag in jita and forcing CCP to donate processor time to that system that's the problem.
Changing gangs to fleets - yeah it takes time to form up now, but it allows greater flexibility in PVP ops.
Fixing SOS Logoffs - GOOD!!! About time tbh... I laugh every time that someone loses a ship for doing so. FIX has a SOP about demanding that members seen logging off to save a ship fly back to the same gate or log back in immediately and take the loss. Logging off is only done by lamers.
Sidenote: Anyone seen logging off while in danger should be reported to a FIX representative.
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Tara Caldar
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:15:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Awox
Also, it meant you couldn't visit any region on a whim with a huge BS gang to harass the locals. You actually had to plan (copy bookmarks, okay this was boring) but it meant if you went on a long trip you were more likely to take a fast ship that didn't need WTZ or a scout to setup the gang-WTZ, this at least took some teamwork and skill.
Not true, if you had BM's you didn't need the entire fleet to have them. Just the FC and alternates and maybe a few other players. MOST 0.0 denizens already carried full sets for the regions they typically travelled in anyway. This is a silly inane arguement. As a gang leader I frequently used warp gang to my own bookmarks. No need for EVERYONE to have them. Most did but if they didn't it wasn't an issue.
Originally by: Awox
Probing out mission runners: Okay, it is a little unfair to take on a mission runner who is doing his mission. But is it any different to killing someone NPCing in 0.0 which a lot of you "real pvpers" do? It's not.
You can rat in 0.0 in a PVP setup You cannot run level 4 missions in a PVP setup When ratting in 0.0 you can tell when hostiles enter system by watching local You cannot do that in lowsec because 99% of the people there will show up, to the average mission runner, as neutral.
HUGE difference. But nice try.
Originally by: Awox
a) they undock straight to their insta-undock point, safe thanks to 30 second invulnerability timer. b) they warp to their deadspace mission c) they do their mission, mean time you are smashing the analyze button - even with the right probes d) before you even get a result you discover this person has finished the mission, and has warped back to their station, at zero, and docked.
1) If you are trying to probe people out with moderate skills you're wasting your time 2) If you are not probing in a covops (or at least a astrometrics frig) you are REALLY wasting your time.
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Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:17:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Awox on 24/04/2007 13:14:25
Originally by: Sydonis Oh looky... another post by 0.4 gankers who haven't the balls to step out of the shallows and go into real 0.0.
Yeah, because people with bad security statuses never visit 0.0
(edited out the personal attack, but damn, you are an ignorant *****. my low security status just proves that I don't NPC, doesn't prove that I don't PvP in 0.0) - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:24:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 24/04/2007 13:21:09
Quote:
You cannot run level 4 missions in a PVP setup
In a Hyperion you can. But in most cases a PvP setup for l4 missions will not be relaxed.
+++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Awox
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:43:00 -
[49]
Maybe if high-end missions weren't done in big juicy lone battleships and instead in groups you would be safer while doing them. You could all have pvp setups with everyone using a logistic mod or two, hell, I usually fly with logistics stuff on my pvp ships.. - BOOST OUTLAWS (-10.0 and proud of it) |
Keven
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:36:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Keven on 24/04/2007 15:48:07
Originally by: Awox Maybe if high-end missions weren't done in big juicy lone battleships and instead in groups you would be safer while doing them. You could all have pvp setups with everyone using a logistic mod or two, hell, I usually fly with logistics stuff on my pvp ships..
L4 are NOT supposed to be Team missions. The reward does not measure up to the "cost" (in terms of cash per palyer) involved in getting 2 guys into the mission, let alone there ARE solo gamers wo don't have a corp to call upon and finaly those who simply don't WANT to team up with anyone.
+ since the missions rat always focus on one target at a time it needs specialized tanking, stuff like that usualy lowers pvp capabilitys a lot. Regardles of how many team members you bring, one will always be helpless in pvp.
Aside from that: Seeing the killboards id say there is plenty of pvp going on, so move your asses to those places, go die there, go kill there and leave us newbies alone, lamers. We actualy need time to build up our chars y'know? We don't have other ppl shoving imps, isk and stuff into our arses.
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Drunk Driver
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.24 15:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Rasahl Tlev when was the last change in this game that actually benefited pvpers?
"fixing" loggoff*snip*? "reducing" lag during fleet battle? changing gangs to fleets?
Fixed it for you. -Ivan K
The chemicals in your brain need to be adjusted.
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