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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
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CCP kieron
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Posted - 2007.04.24 19:44:00 -
[1]
Following up on his last blog with more information, Oveur goes further into the underlying process behind troubleshooting the game server and client. Also included in his blog is mention of client improvements, including an updated graphic client (Trinity is dead, Long Live Trinity 2!), improvements to the sound client, UI and more.
Your Client Performance and You - Upcoming Improvements. Are you ready for what is coming?
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online |
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Canine Fiend
Minmatar Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.04.24 19:46:00 -
[2]
<3 Oveur and his blogs. I can't wait for improvements to sound, I'll get to hear the game for the first time in 3 years!
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Henry Fredyericus
Gallente H.F. Enterprises 3asy Company
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Posted - 2007.04.24 20:20:00 -
[3]
...Oveur blogs always sound so optimistic. Reason could be the abundance of beer or just the optimistic character...
Well...anyway all the planned changes are highly anticipated.
Only when the tide goes out, you see who's been swimming naked... - Mr. Buffet |
brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.04.24 20:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: brinelan on 24/04/2007 20:39:08 With things being recoded to move more processing to the GPU, will SLI support be considered or included?
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Nisse Owned
The Order of Chivalry
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Posted - 2007.04.24 21:02:00 -
[5]
Though, is DX10 cards even out yet... I know HL2 and most source engine based games is possible to force an old card to support a higher hardware level at the cost of performance. Would be cool if it would be possible to do like that with eve aswell(Poor me can't upgrade graphics card in my laptop )
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Nifel
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.04.24 21:28:00 -
[6]
Will the new EVE client (or the current EVE client even) use RAM for cached items instead of the hd? Preferrably shared between multiple clients >_>.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama |
Scetrov
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.24 21:33:00 -
[7]
It is good to see that rolling updates are on the agenda, I would be really interested to know how many EVE players have which graphics cards, I don't suppose CCP have that data to hand without players submitting that information themselves... torn between privacy and data mining being cool!.
Also for some reason, I feel the need to post this again... --
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Broska
Shadow Blades
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Posted - 2007.04.24 21:33:00 -
[8]
Will the new engine make fleet battles without the server crashing / half the participants crashing, a possibility again? ------------------------------
Originally by: Tovarishch flying a Scorp into a fleet battle is like parking a pink moped in front of a biker bar - you will die... quickly.
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.24 22:05:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Solbright on 24/04/2007 22:06:21
Originally by: Nisse Owned Though, is DX10 cards even out yet... I know HL2 and most source engine based games is possible to force an old card to support a higher hardware level at the cost of performance.
I think this is an answer ...
Originally by: CCP Oveur ... the new graphics engine Trinity 2 should be mentioned. Sure, it's also adding new goodies to utilize newer graphics card and there's even a special version for Windows Vista to utilize the powers of DirectX10.
CCP intend to have two Eve clients based around: 1 - Trinity 2 for DX9 2 - Trinity 2 for DX10 or maybe: 1 - Trinity 2 for DX9 based hardware (requires DX10 installed) 2 - Trinity 2 for DX10
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LancerSix
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.24 22:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: LancerSix on 24/04/2007 22:23:51 How does Ambulation factor into this? Do you think we may see at least some elements of it surface with the new engine at the end of the year?
I seriously can't wait .
/me sells his soul for beta .
Warning: Sig highly outdated. |
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.24 23:10:00 -
[11]
Here's my take on the blog:
Trinity 2 graphics engine Mostly about client performance but obviously will add some new bells. - Release date: Early 2008.
New User Interface Framework Sketchy details but appears to be an integral part of the client performance agenda. - Release date: Early 2008 along with Trinity 2, with many subsequent fixes and additions.
New sound engine Get to enable sound, a little more immersion, nice bonus. Release date: Mid 2007.
Slipstream network layer Some DRM thingy or, if lucky, an attempt to opensource the client. Release date: 2009/2010.
Better asynchronous resource loading Much needed on top of the many client performance targets. Will be nice to see a stutterless display with boxes turning into ships as the geometry and texture data is loaded from the HDD. Release date: Hopefully sooner than later.
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.24 23:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Solbright Slipstream network layer Some DRM thingy or, if lucky, an attempt to opensource the client. Release date: 2009/2010.
Don't think this will be to do with DRM or opensource at all. All it really sounds like is is a new pile of code for handling client-server communications. The current code seems to be good at sending lots of little messages, but not so good when you've got really big messages to go across the link (e.g. the market listing for shuttles). Hopefully slipstream will fix those issues and give a generally more robust connection to the server for less random disconnects. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Solbright
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Posted - 2007.04.25 00:16:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Matthew The current code seems to be good at sending lots of little messages, but not so good when you've got really big messages to go across the link (e.g. the market listing for shuttles).
Cool, sounds like it may help smooth bumps at the server end. Can't say I've noticed the client suffering from network problems unless there is major packet loss.
There is not much that can help packet loss - more redundancy/error correction maybe but that can get out of hand and add too much lag itself. For short outages a status refresh button would do wonders but that will get hammered by the user and the cluster will be hit hard so I don't think that's an answer either.
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Erotic Irony
RONA Deepspace
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Posted - 2007.04.25 00:40:00 -
[14]
Are all the things mentioned there going to happen simultaneously or will we see revised UI in November and Trinity in January and so on or is it all together?
I have a hard time thinking any major changes will come to us by year's end; can we have a realistic estimate of when the UI rewrite will happen and go live? Q1 2008? Will we be able to experiment with it on test server? ___
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.25 01:23:00 -
[15]
Good stuff. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
TOGAKURE Daisuke
Occam's Razor Combine R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.25 02:11:00 -
[16]
Just open the ICMP for ever, there's no real reason to block it anymore in the current internet environment
Or if your network engineer insists it's an security risk, allows mapping the critical portions of your network &c, start interviewing for a new one. Because then you have a problem in your current topology and obfuscating things is not the cure.
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Nate D
New Atlantis Tek Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.25 03:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: "CCP Oveur" *snip* ...we're always moving mature code from Python to C if it's highly utilized.
*snip* We regularily refactor code, optimize, move to C or simply replace code regularly.
Pardon my inadequate knowledge of coding but what I take from these statements is that C code is faster and better than Python code. If this is the case, why isn't the code written in C to begin with?
Not a complaint, just a question. -Nate
A New EVE Voice In Game Channel |
defiler
Mad Hermit
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Posted - 2007.04.25 05:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nate D
Originally by: "CCP Oveur" *snip* ...we're always moving mature code from Python to C if it's highly utilized.
*snip* We regularily refactor code, optimize, move to C or simply replace code regularly.
Pardon my inadequate knowledge of coding but what I take from these statements is that C code is faster and better than Python code. If this is the case, why isn't the code written in C to begin with?
Not a complaint, just a question. -Nate
I'm not a code monkey either so I can only theorise, but...
Python is indeed slower than C (or at least it can be), but what it lacks in raw performance it makes up for with readability. The same thing can be said for assembly, why don't people write programs using that these days when it allows optimal performance? Because writing and understanding the code is very challenging, not to mention maintaining someone elses code. Python is very easy to pick up and is in fact pretty fast. Still, highly optimized C code + a good compiler probably produces faster program code.
The thing you need to keep in mind is that maintainability (is that a word?) is more important than performance when writing new code. When the code has matured and proven itself to be reliable one can consider adding some optimizations and perhaps switching to another language. There is, of course, a risk that switching from Python to C will introduce new bugs, but at least you have the option to roll back to the old (Python) code.
Again, this is pure speculation, I'm not a software engineer or anything (almost became one though) and I've almost succeeded in forgetting what little stuff I did pick up . I am however working on a little hobby project in Java and I'm currently trying to convert the heavy stuff (remember the 90-10 rule) to C for exactly the same reasons I mentioned above: I know the code works, I'm pretty sure I don't have to modify it any time soon and the new code will be faster once I'm done. Writing the code in C from the start was not an option though, getting the project to its current state would've taken much, much longer that way.
Still, I'd welcome a better explanation than my insane ramblings.
Mad Hermit - Minding our own business since 2004. |
Adam C
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.25 06:20:00 -
[19]
eoooowwwwwww Nice, really really nice niicccce
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: brinelan Edited by: brinelan on 24/04/2007 20:39:08 With things being recoded to move more processing to the GPU, will SLI support be considered or included?
Hasn't been decided yet.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Dr Aryandi
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nate D
Originally by: "CCP Oveur" *snip* ...we're always moving mature code from Python to C if it's highly utilized.
*snip* We regularily refactor code, optimize, move to C or simply replace code regularly.
Pardon my inadequate knowledge of coding but what I take from these statements is that C code is faster and better than Python code. If this is the case, why isn't the code written in C to begin with?
Not a complaint, just a question. -Nate
C code executes faster. I.e. if you want to add 1000 numbers to 1000 other numbers then C will probably do it faster.
Python though is much faster and easier to write/tweak/change/test etc.
So development can be done much faster in python, then performance critical sections of code get refactored in C (you can call between C and python inside one program).
C vs Python is a trade-off between raw performance and development timescales.
Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nisse Owned Though, is DX10 cards even out yet... I know HL2 and most source engine based games is possible to force an old card to support a higher hardware level at the cost of performance. Would be cool if it would be possible to do like that with eve aswell(Poor me can't upgrade graphics card in my laptop )
DX10 card have been out since 2006. There is a lot to be done between DX9 and DX10 in terms of shaders and such, remains to be seen how much of that we utilize.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Scetrov It is good to see that rolling updates are on the agenda, I would be really interested to know how many EVE players have which graphics cards, I don't suppose CCP have that data to hand without players submitting that information themselves... torn between privacy and data mining being cool!.
Also for some reason, I feel the need to post this again...
We don't have that information. The picture is also flawed. I am from the Intarweb.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nifel Will the new EVE client (or the current EVE client even) use RAM for cached items instead of the hd? Preferrably shared between multiple clients >_>.
I'm pretty sure it's already using RAM.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Broska Will the new engine make fleet battles without the server crashing / half the participants crashing, a possibility again?
Neither the new nor the current graphics engine has got anything to do with server crashes. As stated in the blog, this is entirely about the client improvements. It should however help your client enter fleet battles with less chance of crashing.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Solbright
1 - Trinity 2 for DX9 2 - Trinity 2 for DX10
We will utilize some new spiffy shader stuff, but with a fallback path to DX9
Senior Producer EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: LancerSix Edited by: LancerSix on 24/04/2007 22:23:51 How does Ambulation factor into this? Do you think we may see at least some elements of it surface with the new engine at the end of the year?
I seriously can't wait .
/me sells his soul for beta .
Trinity 2 is a prerequisite for Ambulation, so you will see the engine first.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Matthew
Originally by: Solbright Slipstream network layer Some DRM thingy or, if lucky, an attempt to opensource the client. Release date: 2009/2010.
Don't think this will be to do with DRM or opensource at all. All it really sounds like is is a new pile of code for handling client-server communications. The current code seems to be good at sending lots of little messages, but not so good when you've got really big messages to go across the link (e.g. the market listing for shuttles). Hopefully slipstream will fix those issues and give a generally more robust connection to the server for less random disconnects.
Your're quite correct, there is no DRM at all involved here, we don't need it.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dr Aryandi
Originally by: Nate D
Originally by: "CCP Oveur" *snip* ...we're always moving mature code from Python to C if it's highly utilized.
*snip* We regularily refactor code, optimize, move to C or simply replace code regularly.
Pardon my inadequate knowledge of coding but what I take from these statements is that C code is faster and better than Python code. If this is the case, why isn't the code written in C to begin with?
Not a complaint, just a question. -Nate
C code executes faster. I.e. if you want to add 1000 numbers to 1000 other numbers then C will probably do it faster.
Python though is much faster and easier to write/tweak/change/test etc.
So development can be done much faster in python, then performance critical sections of code get refactored in C (you can call between C and python inside one program).
C vs Python is a trade-off between raw performance and development timescales.
Correct, nothing compares to the speed we can construct, test, fix and refine in Python. When something is being used that much that the Python performance is a problem, we move it to C - if the code is mature enough.
Senior Producer EVE Online
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Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.25 09:36:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Xenofur on 25/04/2007 09:38:25 Re: DX10 engine.
There are guys currently working on making DX 10 available under Win XP: http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/
When their work becomes feasible, will you use it for your customer's benefit?
--
Edit: Kudos on the asynchronous ressource loading. Seriously, i would be perfectly happy if threw all the other crap in that blog in the bin and only implemented that one thing.
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