Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
44
|
Posted - 2017.02.18 15:14:54 -
[31] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:Here's a way to make the Noctis viable again......
Let it be the only ship that can salvage capitals (freighters, carriers, dreads, etc).
Titans would still be unsalvageable, of course.
CCP could introduce a Noctis-only salvager module to allow this to be done, or simply make the fitting requirements insane and give the Noctis huge bonuses to let it be able to fit said module.
Oh, and capital salvaging shouldn't be fast...say a cycle time of 5 minutes?
Slightly less with skills, of course, but no faster than 2.5 minutes with max skills/rigs/module bonuses.
Oh, and while salvaging caps it can't be repped/boosted/aided in any way at all, and can't move either.
While we are at it, bloom its sig as if its using a MWD as long at this capital salvager is being used.
Now push the button, Frank.
Salvaging dreadnaught, I didn't realize it was possible to turn the Noctis into even more of a waste of resources. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1175
|
Posted - 2017.02.18 16:25:33 -
[32] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I'll approach this from the other side, it may be a bit more sensible for you. This is a salvaging ship. Its design, role and intent is to lock on to space junk and process it. There is no need for quicker locking. That established lock time is factored into the game as part of the cost of doing business. Wrecks aren't going to get away. Have a little patience. Not going to fall for bait and switch tactics here. YOU specifically stated that giving the Noctis a bonus to sebo use would break gate camps, I want an explanation of how and why you think it would break gate camps.
Since you did change tactics here I will respond to that as well by giving you justification for the faster lock times. After considerable time invested in experimentation ORE determined that due to the scattered nature of the remnants of a destroyed ship (explosions and all that stuff) they were extremely difficult to lock so they simply equipped the ship with a stronger sensor system to compensate. Bonus here is that the extra equipment needed for these stronger sensors helps to explain the relatively high mass to volume ratio of the Noctis.
Serendipity Lost wrote:The MTU killed the noctis. The ship is fine and the deployable is an enabler for lazy folk. Surprise surprise, the lazy folk are now ignoring the benefit of the MTU (setting it as the new normal) and requesting that the noctis be incrementally 'improved' to make the game 'better'. There is nothing you can do to the Noctis that will get the single character mission runners to stop using the MTU, the only way to get them to stop using it would be to nerf it into a useless state, despite what you may think I do not want that to happen. What I DO WANT is for CCP to make some changes to the Noctis that benefit those of us that do use it, you know a few simple changes that have no chance of breaking the game like faster lock times, reduced align times, some adjustments to the various bonuses etc.
Serendipity Lost wrote:Here's how this plays out - You ninnies get your noctis upgrade so that it is again 'useful' in your eyes. For the 5 months after that everyone will be like 'CCP rocks, this change is great, life is good and so on' 5 months after that (once players settle in to the new norm) it will be "to the forums lads, the MTU is obsolete, it needs a T2 version that also salvages what it tractors". Skip ahead 3 years and it will be "to the forums lads, the MTU is obsolete, it needs a T3 version that warps to the next site when it's done" (because warping around picking up loot is just toooooo much of a time waster. 5 years ahead - looting takes too long, give marauders a space magic shipping bonus that just teleports loot back to my home station so I don't have to waste my valuable millennial minutes taking stuff back to station (this magic teleport feature should have a check box for 'process into minerals' button because we all agree that selecting and processing loot is boring and should be automated) The MTU best serves the player with a single account, or a player that prefers to use a single character for missions etc. The Noctis best serves the players like me that are willing to use two characters for our mission etc and Nothing you can do to the Noctis will EVER change this. If CCP kept this in mind when making changes it would eliminate all but the fringe elements and their calls for changes and no matter what you do there will always be those fringe elements. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1175
|
Posted - 2017.02.18 17:07:27 -
[33] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Have a little patience. Wanted to deal with this separately. Perhaps CCP needs to INCREASE the lock times on ALL ships by 5 to 10 seconds and remove the sebo or anything else that might reduce those lock times because you need to have a little patience. Who cares that most of your potential targets will get away while you wait for your target lock, just think of all that wonderful patience you will need. Then you can double down on the wonderful patience as you endlessly roam the EvE Universe looking for that player who is AFK or who is simply to slow to recognize what is happening. And after you have had all of this patience and you finally get that kill just think how sweet it will be. Crazy stupid idea and it would be terrible for the game. Yet your comment about having patience as we wait for the Noctis to lock a frigate wreck is just as crazy and stupid. As long as it was done with any degree of common sense reducing the lock times for the Noctis will not affect any one or anything in the game EXCEPT the Noctis pilot. |
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2116
|
Posted - 2017.02.18 21:13:46 -
[34] - Quote
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:Salvaging dreadnaught, I didn't realize it was possible to turn the Noctis into even more of a waste of resources.
Read it again.
I didn't say make it a dread that can salvage.
I said let it be able to salvage dreads/freighter/etc wrecks.
If CCP want to make it more expensive to make, that's on them.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5635
|
Posted - 2017.02.19 01:38:12 -
[35] - Quote
The problem with the Noctis is that it's an expensive glass salvager that can't survive most activities without massive fleet support, which defeats the while point of salvaging as you go.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
2116
|
Posted - 2017.02.19 05:10:59 -
[36] - Quote
It's not expensive (unless you consider t1 BC's expensive) and It can fit a very tough tank, if one can be bothered to fit a tank, that is.
And it even has a drone bay, now.
Hell, you can run l2 sec missions with it for the lolz.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
|
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5654
|
Posted - 2017.02.19 11:10:58 -
[37] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:It's not expensive (unless you consider t1 BC's expensive) and It can fit a very tough tank, if one can be bothered to fit a tank, that is.
And it even has a drone bay, now. Hell, you can run l2 sec missions with it for the lolz. Compared to a MTU - it's expensive.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Charley Varrick
State War Academy Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2017.02.19 13:47:11 -
[38] - Quote
Here is a crazy thought....Allow it to tractor all wrecks, not just those owned by the player. It could then be a true salvage ship. It could clean up all those wrecks left behind in belts and missions that some players don't bother with and make some decent ISK pulling illegal salvage. The trade off is it would become flagged and be a big fat juicy target! |
Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
51
|
Posted - 2017.02.19 14:30:42 -
[39] - Quote
Charley Varrick wrote:Here is a crazy thought....Allow it to tractor all wrecks, not just those owned by the player. It could then be a true salvage ship. It could clean up all those wrecks left behind in belts and missions that some players don't bother with and make some decent ISK pulling illegal salvage. The trade off is it would become flagged and be a big fat juicy target!
Noctis can do this already, check your safety settings. |
Charley Varrick
State War Academy Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2017.02.19 15:56:17 -
[40] - Quote
Could have sworn I tried that once and it wouldn't let me. All this time I been missing out! This info just opened up a whole new level to EVE! Thanks! |
|
Pondsworth
Abyss Cooperative
1
|
Posted - 2017.02.19 21:26:55 -
[41] - Quote
Just tossing this out there, I run LvL 4 missions in Hi-Sec in a Cerberus and have never thought it inconvenient to go get my Noctis to go vacume up the salvage. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5667
|
Posted - 2017.02.20 05:34:49 -
[42] - Quote
Pondsworth wrote:Just tossing this out there, I run LvL 4 missions in Hi-Sec in a Cerberus and have never thought it inconvenient to go get my Noctis to go vacume up the salvage. Except it's worth more to just run another mission.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Pondsworth
Abyss Cooperative
1
|
Posted - 2017.02.20 14:58:44 -
[43] - Quote
It depends on how you look at it. I have a lot of rig BPO's and BPC's. when I want to build one either to put in a new ship or sell, I don't spend a single ISK. All the cargo I get I dump in a 'junk' storage can and then every other month or so I run it all to Jita. Even selling below market it's all free ISK.
Also a factor, after spending a long time on a mission, I'm ready to do something else and I don't always want to run another mission. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
136
|
Posted - 2017.02.20 15:41:29 -
[44] - Quote
Double |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
136
|
Posted - 2017.02.20 15:42:27 -
[45] - Quote
I've seen someone who uses one with drones after finishing sites with a nightmare but it seems horribly impractical. I feel like I can do it faster already with just a mobile depot and mtu which I carry with me compulsively at this point. By the time I'm done killing my wrecks are nearly collected and I can pop off my guns and switch to salvagers. Now that I've found I can select all the turrets salvagers and drag them onto the hull in the fitting screen rather than havi n to equip one at a time speeds me up even more by a few seconds. I couldn't see myself spend 100m to fit a ship that does the same thing in more time for more money. Maybe if you gave it bonuses that let it get something like 5km/s speed and triple range on a passive targeter but then you have a high slot going to a passive targeting so you can focus on looting and salvaging. But again. The mtu does it automatically and I can salvage faster with 5-6 salvagers on pre emptied wrecks. Not counting the bonuses it gets.
Also the single most crucial aspect about the Noctis no ones mentioned yet. That is one ugly ******* ship. It will never be popular looking that ugly.
Serendipity Lost wrote:The way to restore the noctis to a state of grace is two fold.
1. remove deployables that automate tractoring - if it's not worth your time, then leave the wrecks behind
https://youtu.be/fBVhfdduwfo |
Arcturus Ursidae
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2017.02.20 20:06:07 -
[46] - Quote
Not used one of these in a long time but turns out I still have one tucked away somewhere.
At this point I don't see the deployable's going away.
One option I see of value would be perhaps making the ship bonuses also apply to deployed mtu's.
Perhaps then drop a couple of highs to lows to allow for more tank, agility or cargo.
Alternatively if it had a bonus to produce more salvage or perhaps rarer salvage that could give it an edge. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
136
|
Posted - 2017.02.21 05:16:42 -
[47] - Quote
Arcturus Ursidae wrote:Not used one of these in a long time but turns out I still have one tucked away somewhere.
At this point I don't see the deployable's going away.
One option I see of value would be perhaps making the ship bonuses also apply to deployed mtu's.
Perhaps then drop a couple of highs to lows to allow for more tank, agility or cargo.
Alternatively if it had a bonus to produce more salvage or perhaps rarer salvage that could give it an edge. I remember a post somewhere where someone wanted to make a bonus that allowed a small percent chance you could recover destroyed equipment but that would interfere with tickets if someone lost a ship due to a bug or socket close and petitioned to have the ship returned possibly. |
Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
219
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 08:09:13 -
[48] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote: I remember a post somewhere where someone wanted to make a bonus that allowed a small percent chance you could recover destroyed equipment but that would interfere with tickets if someone lost a ship due to a bug or socket close and petitioned to have the ship returned possibly.
Just give it a 5% bonus to salvage amount as well cycle time per level. Getting more salvage would entice people to use it.
Hell a number of people think that's the way salvaging works anyway (amount per lvl not chance )
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
2075
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 12:49:43 -
[49] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:Matthias Ancaladron wrote: I remember a post somewhere where someone wanted to make a bonus that allowed a small percent chance you could recover destroyed equipment but that would interfere with tickets if someone lost a ship due to a bug or socket close and petitioned to have the ship returned possibly.
Just give it a 5% bonus to salvage amount as well cycle time per level. Getting more salvage would entice people to use it. Hell a number of people think that's the way salvaging works anyway (amount per lvl not chance ) Hm.... Why yes?
Actually it looks well to give Noctis such bonus: - salvaging drones for convenience/Noctis for more salvage - manual work gives better results
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
2075
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 12:50:32 -
[50] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:Matthias Ancaladron wrote: I remember a post somewhere where someone wanted to make a bonus that allowed a small percent chance you could recover destroyed equipment but that would interfere with tickets if someone lost a ship due to a bug or socket close and petitioned to have the ship returned possibly.
Just give it a 5% bonus to salvage amount as well cycle time per level. Getting more salvage would entice people to use it. Hell a number of people think that's the way salvaging works anyway (amount per lvl not chance ) Actually it looks reasonable to give Noctis such bonus: - salvaging drones for convenience/Noctis for more salvage - manual work gives better results
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
|
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5700
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 15:40:23 -
[51] - Quote
Honestly - I still wouldn't use it for salvaging. You can fit a Hecate for salvage duty that will literally run circles around a Noctis. Just drop a MTU before you complete the mission, bookmark then return with a Hecate. It's a fraction of the price and far less skill-intensive. When you're running T2 salvagers you already have all the bonuses you need. The Hecate aligns in just over a second, warps well over 10 AU/s with implants, 2700m/s cap stable MWD speed, almost 1000m3 cargo, 400+ scan resolution and can lock 10 targets with 5 salvagers.
Why would you want a Noctis? The answer is: you wouldn't.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2510
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 16:39:45 -
[52] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Honestly - I still wouldn't use it for salvaging. You can fit a Hecate for salvage duty that will literally run circles around a Noctis. Just drop a MTU before you complete the mission, bookmark then return with a Hecate. It's a fraction of the price and far less skill-intensive. When you're running T2 salvagers you already have all the bonuses you need. The Hecate aligns in just over a second, warps well over 10 AU/s with implants, 2700m/s cap stable MWD speed, almost 1000m3 cargo, 400+ scan resolution and can lock 10 targets with 5 salvagers.
Why would you want a Noctis? The answer is: you wouldn't.
Your statement is true for HS. Any other part of Eve - maybe not so much.
The noctis can leverage its long tractor range and tractoring speed to improve salvaging's survival margin quite some bit. The noctice can orbit a beacon far out of point range and keep moving while salvaging - eliminating the quick and easy warp in for any tackling ships. As noted earlier - for wh sites - the salvage IS the site, and no local makes the noctis a great option.
Based on that, I would say the noctis IS working as intended. The basis of this whole thread seems (upon reflection) to be based on HS folks that don't have to worry about salvager security wanting improved functionality because they have never even had a need for what the noctis actually brings to the table.
Based on the relative size of HS compared to the rest of New Eden I would say the noctis is a great ship in most of Eve. You HS MTU jockeys should probably park your noctis and go the salvaging destroyer route. But please don't lobby to rework a perfectly good ship because it doesn't suit your HS level 4 mission needs. Honestly - the MTU gave you a huge leg up on salvaging - take your good deal and be happy - don't use it as a springboard to get more even faster at the expense of game play in the non-HS part of the game.
Brief history of salvaging: 1. Salvaging introduced to the game - yeah.... new stuff to do. 2. Salvaging destroyer became a thing. 3. Salvaging was deemed 'too hard/difficult/boring/(and so on) due to short range or salvagers and travel time. 4. To the forums lads - lobby / whine / complain / and so on 5. CCP gifts players with the noctis and there was much happiness. 6. Short period of time passes. 7. MTU is introduced to the game - much happiness 8. Short time passes. 9. Noctis is deemed obsolete by MTU in HS. 10. To the forums lads - this broken ship NEEDS to be fixed. 11. Here we are. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5712
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 00:57:48 -
[53] - Quote
Serendipity Lost - all your points are completely valid. If the Noctis is still effective outside of high-sec then it probably doesn't need an overhaul. Still, if they were to give it a minor balance pass and buff a few of the stats (cargo capacity, maybe a slot or two) I don't think that would be totally unreasonable, either.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining The Bastion
151
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 06:58:18 -
[54] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Honestly - I still wouldn't use it for salvaging. You can fit a Hecate for salvage duty that will literally run circles around a Noctis. Just drop a MTU before you complete the mission, bookmark then return with a Hecate. It's a fraction of the price and far less skill-intensive. When you're running T2 salvagers you already have all the bonuses you need. The Hecate aligns in just over a second, warps well over 10 AU/s with implants, 2700m/s cap stable MWD speed, almost 1000m3 cargo, 400+ scan resolution and can lock 10 targets with 5 salvagers.
Why would you want a Noctis? The answer is: you wouldn't.
Only problem I have with this is how the hell is a hecate less skill intensive than a noctis? The catalyst I'll definitely give you is less skill intensive, but the hecate requires far more skills than the noctis. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5717
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 06:59:28 -
[55] - Quote
There's nothing wrong with a Catalyst, either.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
erg cz
Broz With Froz Dot Dot Dot
550
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 08:57:12 -
[56] - Quote
8 bonused hardpoints for salvagers + 5 salvage drones still makes Noctis best ship to salvage multiply heaps of wrecks, gathered by MTU in the same system. Which happens all the time in properly farmed null sec areas. Catalyst lacks cargo space, bonus for salvagers and ability to use drones on free hunt for wrecks. You must be joking about hecate, cause it has even less hardpoints, than catalyst. Main problem of noctis is low warp speed and poor agility. Do not understand, why not that big non-combat ship must be so clumsy... Gnosis has basis time to warp about 6 secunds, Harbinger (same mass as Noctis) - 12, noctis - about 20.
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP for free!
|
Base Instinct
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 11:02:58 -
[57] - Quote
Compare the cost of a fitted Noctis with a fitted salvage dessie.
That is why you never see them in WHs anymore. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2513
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 15:09:33 -
[58] - Quote
Base Instinct wrote:Compare the cost of a fitted Noctis with a fitted salvage dessie.
That is why you never see them in WHs anymore.
They get used quite a bit. They are a lot faster than dessy, so for large high end site running clean ups - folks like them. For salvaging a bunch of gas site wrecks - they get used quite a bit - because of the low number or wrecks their range bonus really shines for those not interested in having their salvage ship blown up.
I would offer that you don't see them because the folks that use them are pro wh folk. You don't see them because of player ability, not because they don't get used. Proper hole monitoring and a cloak (as needed) probably have more to do with it.
If a wh corp is comparing destroyer and noctis cost and factoring that into their choice..... get better at wh??? I don't know many successful wh folk that consider the cost of anything. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5735
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 15:18:17 -
[59] - Quote
In high-sec, if you're not running a Marauder for L4 clears/looting you're just doing it wrong. Outside of high-sec it sounds like the Noctis still has a vital role to play.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2513
|
Posted - 2017.02.23 15:32:39 -
[60] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:In high-sec, if you're not running a Marauder for L4 clears/looting you're just doing it wrong. Outside of high-sec it sounds like the Noctis still has a vital role to play.
I would agree to viable. Vital may be overstating.
I suppose overall I think it's fine as is. If the impetus for 'making it better' is because MTUs have made loot collection easier, then no change - the MTU users just need to understand they have it pretty good and don't need even mo' betterer. The whole power creep thing being the concern.
I mean seriously, if someone decides to quite Eve because the noctis isn't as useful as it once was (because MTU's improved looting) then great - didn't want to hang with THAT GUY anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |