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Krysalys Terminus
The Crimson Order Re-Forged
0
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Posted - 2017.02.17 02:22:56 -
[1] - Quote
I am thinking that I am not the first to say this, but regarding Known Space Data Sites.... and excluding the Sleeper Sites.... Data sites are trash.
In a relic site, if you make X isk in 5 cans, on average, it will take you 5 data sites with 5 cans in each site, to make that same X isk....
I am fairly sure that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that 90% of all players who run Cosmic Signatures skip over every Data site that they see, simply because the massive likelihood that it will be a utter waste of time is so high...
What is being done to rectify this? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3566
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Posted - 2017.02.17 02:29:49 -
[2] - Quote
Eve is a player driven market, the reason data sites are not profitable is because of the low demand for there resources.
Relic sites drop salvage used to make rigs, which are generally put on every ship that has a rig point, many of which die and some of which are destroyed for other rigs. This keeps the demand for salvage up so relic sites are generally profitable as a result.
Data sites on the other hand drop materials used for invention for the production of T2 ships and items. When a ship is destroyed there is a 50/50 chance that an individual item will drop also each successful invention job will yield a BPC that usually has multiple runs. These two thing are what causes data sites to be less profitable than relic sites.
Rigs have a 100% chance to be destroyed.
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Krysalys Terminus
The Crimson Order Re-Forged
0
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Posted - 2017.02.17 02:39:15 -
[3] - Quote
You did not answer the question. Why the items in the sites are worth so much less is not the point.
What is going to be done to fix it? Simply stating that it is "as intended" is rubbish.
"Data sites are not worth the time to run" :: "Content in this game is not worth the time to play"
Those two statements are synonymous, and CCP as a game developer should never settle to have content in their game that is not worth the player's time to engage in, as that is a direct indication that CCP as a development company does not have all of their player's interests in mind.
If any see this as being not an issue... clearly that person is not invested in this aspect of the game, and should refrain from expressing their opinion, as it is little more than a case example of GIGO... Garbage In, Garbage out. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
204
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Posted - 2017.02.17 03:20:19 -
[4] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:You did not answer the question. Why the items in the sites are worth so much less is not the point. What is going to be done to fix it? Simply stating that it is "as intended" is rubbish. "Data sites are not worth the time to run" :: "Content in this game is not worth the time to play" Those two statements are synonymous, and CCP as a game developer should never settle to have content in their game that is not worth the player's time to engage in, as that is a direct indication that CCP as a development company does not have all of their player's interests in mind. If any see this as being not an issue... clearly that person is not invested in this aspect of the game, and should refrain from expressing their opinion, as it is little more than a case example of GIGO... Garbage In, Garbage out.
what would YOU suggest as a way to fix it?
simply increasing the amount of loot dropped in data sites would only serve to drive the prices down even further by flooding the market even more. adding salvage to data sites, beyond not making much sense lore wise (yes lore is a thing) would take away from the uniqueness of both types of sites, and through putting more materials into the market, drive the value of both types of sites down.
Currently Data sites do have a small chance of dropping rare BPC's which if you get lucky and snag one, makes that particular data site MUCH more valuable than any relic site. if you increased the drop rate of those BPC's though, again, would push the market price down.
The way I look at it, Relic sites are reliable steady money, your pretty much guaranteed a certain amount of isk for running them. Data sites are more of a gamble, your probably gonna come out with less isk per site, but if you get lucky and snag a blueprint that could be worth more than your entire nights haul.
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Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels
124
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Posted - 2017.02.17 03:36:29 -
[5] - Quote
Not true.
Ghost sites are good. I got a mod grade ascendancy blueprint. Missed a gamma blueprint in another because i got a short timer. Regular data and relic sites are junk tho. Only the ghost data sites are any good and there's no relic equivalent as far as I can tell.
Relic sites aren't even worth going to in High sec, I've never seen something good in one. Data sites I go to and scan down to see if there's any blueprints but 99% of the time there's nothing worthwhile and 99% of 1% it's a garbage bpc that's not worth anything.
So I'd say slip relic, scan data cans them then move on, and hope you get a ghost site that won't waste your time with a premature timer. |
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy The Bastard Cartel
651
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Posted - 2017.02.17 03:46:14 -
[6] - Quote
I seem to remember that Data sites used to be as good as Relic sites (so to speak). That was when you could only get Datacores through exploration and Research Agents.
Now Datacores are mostly brought to market by overfarmed FW LP and results that said market is completely saturated and Datacores worth peanuts.
Join Celtic Anarchy!
Sneaky bastard.
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
596
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Posted - 2017.02.17 03:53:27 -
[7] - Quote
The ratio of payout between relic and data sites is the same in j-space.
CCP has made buffs to data sites over the last couple of years. Reducing m3 storage requirements and improving the drops. They haven't announced any future changes, but they are aware of player concerns.
The main problem is probably that FW produces the same loot driving the price down.
Oh, and that exploration is new player friendly. If the loot drop isn't that valuable experienced players will move on to more lucrative activities leaving something for the new players.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
58552
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 04:00:46 -
[8] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:I seem to remember that Data sites used to be as good as Relic sites (so to speak). That was when you could only get Datacores through exploration and Research Agents.
Now Datacores are mostly brought to market by overfarmed FW LP and results that said market is completely saturated and Datacores worth peanuts. This is the main reason why Data Sites are no longer profitable.
Also most of the items gained from Data Sites take up a lot more cargospace and as such explorers have to dock up and unload more often resulting in missed opportunities to run other sites due to massive competition.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Cade Windstalker
823
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Posted - 2017.02.17 04:01:17 -
[9] - Quote
If data sites were truly not worthwhile to run then no one would run them and the price would go up.
CCP could significantly cut the loot drops from these sites, but that would mostly just reduce their value since there are other sources of data cores and this would be unlikely to increase the price enough to offset the lost value from the sites.
In short unless CCP introduce some new loot type to add to these sites, or do something to massively change the supply and demand for their existing drops, there isn't anything to be done. Sites and market are working as intended.
Oh, and for the record I do run scan sites, it's kind of my default activity when I have nothing else to do, and I do run data sites because I'm in it as much for the fun of running around grabbing stuff and playing the hacking game as the ISK. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
58552
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 04:05:28 -
[10] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:The ratio of payout between relic and data sites is the same in j-space.
Just wanted to point out that some players may not know that J-space = Worm space.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
483
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Posted - 2017.02.17 04:08:13 -
[11] - Quote
Datacores can also be bought from the Faction Warfare LP stores or obtained from research agents. These two combined make the datacores a lot more common and less valuable.
A signature :o
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Malcorath Sacerdos
Rogue Meddlers
44
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Posted - 2017.02.17 07:36:05 -
[12] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:You did not answer the question. Why the items in the sites are worth so much less is not the point. What is going to be done to fix it? Simply stating that it is "as intended" is rubbish. "Data sites are not worth the time to run" :: "Content in this game is not worth the time to play" Those two statements are synonymous, and CCP as a game developer should never settle to have content in their game that is not worth the player's time to engage in, as that is a direct indication that CCP as a development company does not have all of their player's interests in mind. If any see this as being not an issue... clearly that person is not invested in this aspect of the game, and should refrain from expressing their opinion, as it is little more than a case example of GIGO... Garbage In, Garbage out.
ok first off this is a sandbox game. ccp builds and maintains the world and the mechanics of the game the worth of ingame items they shoose to put in the world is up to us to deside. so what can you do to make these things more profitable ?
shure the devs could make it so that data site materials is needed in just about everything and hey presto data site loot would be very expensive. is this what youwant? |
Scipio Artelius
Savage Moon Society
46900
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 07:40:53 -
[13] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:What is being done to rectify this? Nothing.
This has been a long term complaint by players. Intended by CCP.
Most recently, they did improve the drops from data sites, but there is nothing being done to even the difference. It's not an issue. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
652
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 07:47:04 -
[14] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Most recently, they did improve the drops from data sites, but there is nothing being done to even the difference. It's not an issue. They did? Even with introducing new hacking modules those sites are worthless, and yes it is an issue when you have a game content not worth doing.
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
If you need a scout mail me.
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Krysalys Terminus
The Crimson Order Re-Forged
2
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Posted - 2017.02.17 22:55:40 -
[15] - Quote
I'd have thought that it would be obvious what to do to make Data Sites more worthwhile: Make the items found in those sites be more in demand, and not by reducing the available quantities... (although the idea that you can get the same rewards from FW is just a bit stupid.....)
What I thought was obvious: Make the items found in Data Sites a more substantial requirement for production of goods.
It is an obvious solution to a simple problem, really. Or so I thought... I just wanted to know what, if any, plans CCP has for this clear problem.
RE the guy who scans the Data Sites and cherry picks the good loot: Thanks for being part of the problem. When you do that, you make what is already a broken problem all that much worse, because now the next guy to come along also gets screwed, and is then immediately less likely to ever run a Data Site again. |
Cade Windstalker
832
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 23:18:39 -
[16] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:I'd have thought that it would be obvious what to do to make Data Sites more worthwhile: Make the items found in those sites be more in demand, and not by reducing the available quantities... (although the idea that you can get the same rewards from FW is just a bit stupid.....) What I thought was obvious: Make the items found in Data Sites a more substantial requirement for production of goods. It is an obvious solution to a simple problem, really. Or so I thought... I just wanted to know what, if any, plans CCP has for this clear problem. RE the guy who scans the Data Sites and cherry picks the good loot: Thanks for being part of the problem. When you do that, you make what is already a broken problem all that much worse, because now the next guy to come along also gets screwed, and is then immediately less likely to ever run a Data Site again.
Which would, pretty much by definition, increase the price of T2 goods, which would be a generally unpopular move. A better solution would be to add some new kind of loot to Data Sites, but that would be a less than simple change since you would need to either create a new thing for that loot to go into, or find something existing items whose existing source wouldn't be too adversely affected by having another source added.
Just because two things that are part of the same activity have different values per time spent does not mean that a problem exists.
Combat sites have an even wider value swing because lots of sites are lower value, and on top of that many sites rely on random escalation chance for their value which means even the same site can be worth tens or hundreds of millions or a few million.
The same applies to missions. Some missions are worth a ton and quick to do, others are slower and worth less in total.
Data sites do not need to be worth the same as Relic Sites. If you don't find them worthwhile then don't do them. |
Scipio Artelius
The Scope Gallente Federation
47072
|
Posted - 2017.02.17 23:24:55 -
[17] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Most recently, they did improve the drops from data sites, but there is nothing being done to even the difference. It's not an issue. They did? Even with introducing new hacking modules those sites are worthless, and yes it is an issue when you have a game content not worth doing. They are worth doing, but maybe not if your goal in game is ISK/hr or whatever other monetary figure you go by.
My industry alt runs data sites regularly. It's part of the game to do and it helps her industry play. |
Krysalys Terminus
The Crimson Order Re-Forged
2
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Posted - 2017.02.17 23:41:30 -
[18] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Just because two things that are part of the same activity have different values per time spent does not mean that a problem exists. ... Data sites do not need to be worth the same as Relic Sites. If you don't find them worthwhile then don't do them.
They are not part of the same activity.
People doing only Relic sites skip ALL of the Data sites in a region. The next player to come along will ONLY find Data sites (until the sites respawn, when the entire scenario restarts).
When you go into a system, you do not know if you have Data or Relic, so you have to scan them down.... and when you do, you've wasted your time if there are only Data sites, because you are only interested in Relic sites, due to the absolutely overbalanced worth for Relic sites.
The same does NOT apply to Missions or Combat sites, because the difficulty of those sites is what gives more or less worth to the site.
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Cade Windstalker
832
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Posted - 2017.02.17 23:49:21 -
[19] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:They are not part of the same activity.
People doing only Relic sites skip ALL of the Data sites in a region. The next player to come along will ONLY find Data sites (until the sites respawn, when the entire scenario restarts).
When you go into a system, you do not know if you have Data or Relic, so you have to scan them down.... and when you do, you've wasted your time if there are only Data sites, because you are only interested in Relic sites, due to the absolutely overbalanced worth for Relic sites.
The same does NOT apply to Missions or Combat sites, because the difficulty of those sites is what gives more or less worth to the site.
Except you can (and I personally do) run both at the same time, and they are both part of the same activity generally known as "Scanning and Exploration".
Again, if you don't find them worthwhile to do then don't do them. If you're only finding one type of site it's because someone else came through and ran all of one type already, leaving the other.
Also that last bit is not accurate, site rewards or time per reward do not correlate to difficulty in anything more than a general sense. For example high-end Low Sec sites are generally worth more than high end Null sites because the majority of the value is in the loot and fewer people run Low Sec sites for A-type mods than run Null sites for X-Types. |
Orakkus
Imperium Technologies DARKNESS.
323
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Posted - 2017.02.17 23:52:42 -
[20] - Quote
Well, let's also consider what we as pro-explorers can do to help the situation. Typically there are six types of loot that we get from faction (non-drone) datasites:
- Datacores
- Decryptors
- High-Grade Materials (Used for specialized items like the storyline analyzers)
- Low-Grade Materials (Used for "stuff that we never see")
- Precoursor Items (Used for Storyline items)
- BPCs, usually of either Ancillary items, or POS structures
What I've done to typically make datasites profitable is to do the invention myself for the invention materials, and do the builds myself for the BPCs and Precoursor materials. That being said, I think we need to think beyond the two typical ideas of either a.) make the resource less available or b.) add other valuable materials to the loot. There has got to be some ways to make a profit out of these things without having to rely on CCP or the CSM. At least we should make a concerted effort first to find out what options we might have.
Krysalys Terminus wrote:RE the guy who scans the Data Sites and cherry picks the good loot: Thanks for being part of the problem. When you do that, you make what is already a broken problem all that much worse, because now the next guy to come along also gets screwed, and is then immediately less likely to ever run a Data Site again.
Amen.
He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Krysalys Terminus
The Crimson Order Re-Forged
2
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Posted - 2017.02.18 00:06:46 -
[21] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Except you can (and I personally do) run both at the same time, and they are both part of the same activity generally known as "Scanning and Exploration".
Again, if you don't find them worthwhile to do then don't do them. If you're only finding one type of site it's because someone else came through and ran all of one type already, leaving the other.
Also that last bit is not accurate, site rewards or time per reward do not correlate to difficulty in anything more than a general sense. For example high-end Low Sec sites are generally worth more than high end Null sites because the majority of the value is in the loot and fewer people run Low Sec sites for A-type mods than run Null sites for X-Types.
I also do them both. I begin to think that you are being intentionally obtuse. My point is that Data sites are NOT worth your time to do, because you could INSTEAD be looking for the next Relic site. You have said nothing to disqualify my statement other than say that they are the same thing... Which any fool can see that they are not.
Re Combat sites: In any given system, the harder Combat sites will give you more Isk than the easier sites. Damn this confusion about escalations, or HS vs LS vs Null.
All of that crap is irrelevant to the point stated:
Activity A (Relic Sites) are worth more for your time than Activity B (Data Sites), and it is a waste of time to do Activity B when you could be doing Activity A instead; RESULTING IN everyone else who comes along being screwed by you because you managed to get to Activity A before all of them.
Trying to confuse everyone with nonsensical bull sh!t only makes you look dense.
All I am trying to ask is for the two possible activities while doing Exploration Sites to be equally worth your time as a player, so that you can always know that the sites you are spending your time scanning down are not someone else's dredges.
I didn't realize I'd need to defend this point so vigorously... As it is a blatantly f*cking obvious. |
Scipio Artelius
The Scope Gallente Federation
47073
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Posted - 2017.02.18 00:07:19 -
[22] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:RE the guy who scans the Data Sites and cherry picks the good loot: Thanks for being part of the problem. . CCP Karkur shares your frustration there:
https://twitter.com/ccp_karkur/status/804518398600376324
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Cade Windstalker
832
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Posted - 2017.02.18 00:25:35 -
[23] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:I also do them both. I begin to think that you are being intentionally obtuse. My point is that Data sites are NOT worth your time to do, because you could INSTEAD be looking for the next Relic site. You have said nothing to disqualify my statement other than say that they are the same thing... Which any fool can see that they are not.
Personally I tend to avoid personal value judgement, because those are just that "personal" but in my case I look at it two ways.
One, running around hoping for a Relic Site is boring. If I find one I'll prioritize it over a Data Site, but I don't generally hunt for them to the exclusion of other sites.
Second, there's no guarantee I'm going to find a Relic Site in the time it would take me to do that Data site. Lets say it takes me 5 minutes to do that data site, if I don't do it and go on searching and don't find anything then I've gained nothing in that 5 minutes.
Between the boring and the not making ISK for tens of minutes or even hours I just do everything and sell the loot, even if strictly speaking I'd probably make more over the long run just cherry picking the Relic Sites I make a greater combined value in fun x ISK per hour running everything.
Oh, and I don't cherry pick loot. I just do everything. If I find a site that's been picked I just warp off.
Krysalys Terminus wrote:Re Combat sites: In any given system, the harder Combat sites will give you more Isk than the easier sites. Damn this confusion about escalations, or HS vs LS vs Null.
This was, in fact, still not true even disregarding escalations. A site can take me longer to do and still provide lower rewards, generally because it has a lot of Frigates that I over-kill where as the Cruisers and up provide several times the payout per time spent firing at them.
Similarly for sites that have a high chance of killing you the payout may or may not be equal to a site with a much lower chance of killing you, especially in a ship specifically fit for higher paying sites.
Krysalys Terminus wrote:All of that crap is irrelevant to the point stated:
Activity A (Relic Sites) are worth more for your time than Activity B (Data Sites), and it is a waste of time to do Activity B when you could be doing Activity A instead; RESULTING IN everyone else who comes along being screwed by you because you managed to get to Activity A before all of them.
Trying to confuse everyone with nonsensical bull sh!t only makes you look dense.
All I am trying to ask is for the two possible activities while doing Exploration Sites to be equally worth your time as a player, so that you can always know that the sites you are spending your time scanning down are not someone else's dredges.
I didn't realize I'd need to defend this point so vigorously... As it is a blatantly f*cking obvious.
So... what? So people will go through and do both types of sites before someone else can get to them?
Again, there is nothing wrong with different site types being worth more or less. Just because you feel it wastes your time doesn't make it something that needs to change. This would be like asking that every single Level 4 mission be an Extravaganza or World's Collide or something.
On top of that just because you don't find them worthwhile to do a newer player may find them very valuable, because they're still worth more than other things he can do. That was the situation I was in for quite a while starting out. Missions were boring and I didn't have a ship that could do L4s, but I could make pretty good money doing sites, so that's what I did. While a 5m payday from a Data Site might not be worth much to an older player to me it was a pretty decent payday and enough to pay for a full ship with fittings. This sort of variety in site payouts creates variety in the game, and actually creates value for the newer players when the older ones leave them something that isn't worth their time.
Again, just because one is worth less than the other does not mean there is a problem here. Also, for the record, it takes about 30 seconds or so per site (less if you're fast) to identify if something is a Data or Relic site. |
Akane Togenada
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
55
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Posted - 2017.02.18 10:19:27 -
[24] - Quote
One advantage of Data sites is that many fellow explorers seems to believe those sites are not worth it and thus leave them for players like me. Sure the payout sucks but I'd rather get a dozen data sites done on a exploration session then don-Št have any sites at all.
Also as have been said previously ghost sites are great (even in high sec) and can easily be worth more then your average Null relic site. |
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
613
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Posted - 2017.02.18 14:39:11 -
[25] - Quote
This is weird because i do the opposite. I run data sites and skip over relics. I use the data loot in production so that could be why. It benefits me so its worth it, all isk value aside. I feel your pain though. I refuse, and have done so for years, to do any drone sites. A 1-5000 chance for a chip drop isnt worth the ammo it took to shoot the buggers down imo.
Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
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Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
313
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Posted - 2017.02.18 18:25:08 -
[26] - Quote
I do invention so I run data sites for the datacores and decryptors but some of the BPCs can be really profitable too. Small ancillary armor repairer BPCs for example can only be found in data sites and the profit margin on them is huge. |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
227
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Posted - 2017.02.19 20:35:05 -
[27] - Quote
How about a little history lesson.
A long time ago when exploration was a very niche activity scanning was difficult. You had to chose what probes to use for the type of site you wanted. Anomalies could only be found using a ship board scanner and only within 4AU of a planet resulting in planet hoping. Those of us that took the time to train the skills, practice a lot and weather the NPCs in the sites made very good profits from the efforts in both relic and data sites.
Slowly CCP changed the way scanning was done reducing the time factor and complexity in scanning. Then came the death of data sites: The Rubicon expansion.
Within a week everyone and their corps mates were scanning and the profits for both relic and data sites plummeted. Rubicon lowered the barrier of entry into the exploration profession so much it was seen as a first day activity for new players.
Relic site value leveled out for reasons already discussed. Data site values continued to plummet. Certainly things were changed for data site loot; reduced item volumes, added BPCs, materials added to build requirements but data sites never recovered.
The future of data sites is also in doubt: Eventually POSes will be phased out along with pirate BPCs for POS components.What will take their place?
When looking at the long view of exploration, no other career option in EVE was been hit so hard. Exploration was the reason why I started playing EVE. Other activities have kept me playing but exploration is my first love. Based on all events since Rubicon the heady days of exploration challenge and profit are long gone and it is doubtful they will ever come back.
So yes, I too cherry pick data sites. I earned it.
Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE
Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!
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Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
146
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Posted - 2017.02.19 22:19:44 -
[28] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:Well, let's also consider what we as pro-explorers can do to help the situation. Typically there are six types of loot that we get from faction (non-drone) datasites:
- Datacores
- Decryptors
- High-Grade Materials (Used for specialized items like the storyline analyzers)
- Low-Grade Materials (Used for "stuff that we never see")
- Precoursor Items (Used for Storyline items)
- BPCs, usually of either Ancillary items, or POS structures
What I've done to typically make datasites profitable is to do the invention myself for the invention materials, and do the builds myself for the BPCs and Precoursor materials. That being said, I think we need to think beyond the two typical ideas of either a.) make the resource less available or b.) add other valuable materials to the loot. There has got to be some ways to make a profit out of these things without having to rely on CCP or the CSM. At least we should make a concerted effort first to find out what options we might have. Krysalys Terminus wrote:RE the guy who scans the Data Sites and cherry picks the good loot: Thanks for being part of the problem. When you do that, you make what is already a broken problem all that much worse, because now the next guy to come along also gets screwed, and is then immediately less likely to ever run a Data Site again. Amen. I wonder what they will replace the POS BPCs with. Perhaps they could do it now before pos's are fully gone |
Veyreuth
HIgh Sec Care Bears Brothers of Tangra
8
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Posted - 2017.02.20 17:48:20 -
[29] - Quote
I really enjoy running data sites in drone space. Even though the margins are nearly gone for many of the BPCs, the drone guts bring in solid ISK. Perhaps a solution would be to have 'Augmented' faction (angels, etc.) ships and modules... if acquisition of these 'Augmented' BPCs required invention using a huge number of datacores and decrypters, you would have a sink for the excess on the market, bringing their cost back up. Data sites could also drop "faction computer parts", essential for the manufacture of said 'Augmented' BPCs which should have solid demand. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
1933
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Posted - 2017.02.21 08:54:22 -
[30] - Quote
Because there is only one or two medicore and a lot of bad cans per data site people use cargo scanner and cherry pick . That way the bad cans linger in space for a loooog time. That might be the biggest part of the problem. I blow up bad cans before leaving or don't fit a scanner at all. But from what I saw not many players blow up sites before warping out. |
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Yagubiougami
Systema Incognita
4
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Posted - 2017.02.21 11:12:02 -
[31] - Quote
I think they could make Data sites drop things for implants manufacturing like ghost sites do. That would obviously require adding such a system( to manufacture implants) but they clearly can do this as shown by ascendancy line.
Or make skill books only droppable from data sites and not sold by npcs. It would eliminate those two things from supposedly "player controlled" market.
Just my 0.02 ISK |
ApexDynamo
Hazardous Wormhole Rebels
6
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Posted - 2017.02.21 16:38:06 -
[32] - Quote
I just made 20m from a data site in a wh thats the best ive ever gotten from a data site thus far |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2932
|
Posted - 2017.02.21 23:16:17 -
[33] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:Re Combat sites: In any given system, the harder Combat sites will give you more Isk than the easier sites. Damn this confusion about escalations, or HS vs LS vs Null.
All of that crap is irrelevant to the point stated:
Activity A (Relic Sites) are worth more for your time than Activity B (Data Sites), and it is a waste of time to do Activity B when you could be doing Activity A instead; RESULTING IN everyone else who comes along being screwed by you because you managed to get to Activity A before all of them.
Trying to confuse everyone with nonsensical bull sh!t only makes you look dense.
All I am trying to ask is for the two possible activities while doing Exploration Sites to be equally worth your time as a player, so that you can always know that the sites you are spending your time scanning down are not someone else's dredges.
Do you have any arguments that don't include random ad hominem inclusions?
Look, when I run exploration I'm looking for a handful of sites: ghost sites, superior sleeper caches, 5/10s, 6/10s, annexes, and distribution facilities (I'm often in a ladar region). Those are, for me, the most profitable sites to run given my overall setup.
However, they are far from equal. I would much rather get a 6/10 than a 5/10 (at least in the regions I'm in most often). But that doesn't mean I don't run the damn 5/10 even if I might be missing out of a 6/10.
Why, and how is any of this relevant?
Game theory works here, I suppose. I'm basically faced with a choice between a known payout for a known cost and the chance for an unknown payout that might and might not appear. Yes, the unknown payout is better, but I have no guarantee of getting it. I've decided, again based on my own circumstances and ability, that the 5/10 is an acceptable payout against the risk of not getting anything. Would I run 6/10s all day if they were available? Of course! Am I willing to risk passing on getting one for the right price? Sure!
Relevance? You're doing the same thing with data versus relic. You've decided that for you, under your circumstances, the payout of data sites is not high enough to risk missing a relic. And that's your call. I'm not here to tell you you're wrong. However, your personal judgement about relative worth and availability doesn't point towards a structural problem any more than my preference for 6/10s means that 5/10s are **** and need to be boosted and/or more 6/10s should spawn.
You've utterly failed to justify the existence of an actual problem here.
Try this. Next time you're out, hit all the data sites. Cherry pick them; I don't care. Spend a few hours on it. Then another time, spend the same amount of time but run everything. Repeat. Make a spreadsheet. For completeness, do a run for the same controlled amount of time doing only relics and hunting hard for them, skipping all else. Track it all. If there's a real problem, it will show up in the data.
Until then, you're pissing at the wind and claiming to be right based on a sense of entitlement and nothing more. |
Lord Harrowmont
Quantum Decoherence Safeties Set To Red
3
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 05:09:59 -
[34] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:I am thinking that I am not the first to say this, but regarding Known Space Data Sites.... and excluding the Sleeper Sites.... Data sites are trash. In a relic site, if you make X isk in 5 cans, on average, it will take you 5 data sites with 5 cans in each site, to make that same X isk.... I am fairly sure that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that 90% of all players who run Cosmic Signatures skip over every Data site that they see, simply because the massive likelihood that it will be a utter waste of time is so high... What is being done to rectify this?
You need to up your game, head into Wormholes for fat loots.
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Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
146
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 05:27:50 -
[35] - Quote
Lord Harrowmont wrote:Krysalys Terminus wrote:I am thinking that I am not the first to say this, but regarding Known Space Data Sites.... and excluding the Sleeper Sites.... Data sites are trash. In a relic site, if you make X isk in 5 cans, on average, it will take you 5 data sites with 5 cans in each site, to make that same X isk.... I am fairly sure that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that 90% of all players who run Cosmic Signatures skip over every Data site that they see, simply because the massive likelihood that it will be a utter waste of time is so high... What is being done to rectify this? You need to up your game, head into Wormholes for fat loots. I tried them. They aren't even REMOTELY worth the risk. |
Lord Harrowmont
Quantum Decoherence Safeties Set To Red
5
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 06:14:33 -
[36] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Lord Harrowmont wrote:Krysalys Terminus wrote:I am thinking that I am not the first to say this, but regarding Known Space Data Sites.... and excluding the Sleeper Sites.... Data sites are trash. In a relic site, if you make X isk in 5 cans, on average, it will take you 5 data sites with 5 cans in each site, to make that same X isk.... I am fairly sure that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that 90% of all players who run Cosmic Signatures skip over every Data site that they see, simply because the massive likelihood that it will be a utter waste of time is so high... What is being done to rectify this? You need to up your game, head into Wormholes for fat loots. I tried them. They aren't even REMOTELY worth the risk.
Your not trying hard enough then. Making fat ISK on the regular.
The loot is mainly RNG so it's important to keep that in mind my friend! |
Lan-Tui Aylet
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 10:06:01 -
[37] - Quote
Hi; this is my first message in the forums (at least as I recall). (also, English is not my main lang, sorry for the mistakes)
I don't usually like cherrypicking, but I wonder, how is it different from other pvp practices, so strongly defended in the forum?
I mean. When you cherrypick, specially out of your usual exploration zone: -You make other competing explorers lose their time scanning just-crap sites -You make that zone (in which you don't usually operate) less productive -So, you disencourage other explorers, perhaps moving them to avoid exploration, so letting more place for you And, of course, you maximize your isk/hour in that trip if you don't mind finishing or blowing the crap cans.
I can see intentionally cherrypicking as a pvp-way of competing with other explorers. So, "don't cherrypick!" should be looked into as if someone said "don't blow other people's ships!", shouldn't it? |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
2075
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 10:11:33 -
[38] - Quote
Lan-Tui Aylet wrote:Hi; this is my first message in the forums (at least as I recall). (also, English is not my main lang, sorry for the mistakes) I don't usually like cherrypicking, but I wonder, how is it different from other pvp practices, so strongly defended in the forum? I mean. When you cherrypick, specially out of your usual exploration zone: -You make other competing explorers lose their time scanning just-crap sites -You make that zone (in which you don't usually operate) less productive -So, you disencourage other explorers, perhaps moving them to avoid exploration, so letting more place for you And, of course, you maximize your isk/hour in that trip if you don't mind finishing or blowing the crap cans. I can see intentionally cherrypicking as a pvp-way of competing with other explorers. So, "don't cherrypick!" should be looked into as if someone said "don't blow other people's ships!", shouldn't it? Well, you are right. This is PvP too. And noone takes seriously these 'requests'
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Oranen
WIng and Prayer
7
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 13:36:14 -
[39] - Quote
I'll do data sites in null if I can't find anything else. I do not do them in wormhole systems because of the distance between cans is too much time to be exposed when the risk versus reward is factored in. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
146
|
Posted - 2017.02.22 17:20:50 -
[40] - Quote
Lord Harrowmont wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Lord Harrowmont wrote:Krysalys Terminus wrote:I am thinking that I am not the first to say this, but regarding Known Space Data Sites.... and excluding the Sleeper Sites.... Data sites are trash. In a relic site, if you make X isk in 5 cans, on average, it will take you 5 data sites with 5 cans in each site, to make that same X isk.... I am fairly sure that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that 90% of all players who run Cosmic Signatures skip over every Data site that they see, simply because the massive likelihood that it will be a utter waste of time is so high... What is being done to rectify this? You need to up your game, head into Wormholes for fat loots. I tried them. They aren't even REMOTELY worth the risk. Your not trying hard enough then. Making fat ISK on the regular. The loot is mainly RNG so it's important to keep that in mind my friend! 10 sites in one night for a grand total of 15m isk... not an 'effort' problem... |
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Paria
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.04.21 13:15:11 -
[41] - Quote
The problem is not low demand for Data Loot. The problem is high supply for Data Loot. Remove Datacores from Loyalty Stores, problem solved. |
Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2017.04.21 17:14:06 -
[42] - Quote
Exploration throughout the EvE universe was my main activity for a long while. I still do it but to a much lesser degree. Would run every data or relic site that I came across and took everything that dropped (even carbon). I'm still sitting on quite a bit that I have collected. Relic sites on average do pay better than data, but the single biggest payout I've ever encountered was from a data site worth billions of ISK. Other sites I've run were not worth much so I just stockpile the stuff until for some reason the market explodes on an item or 2 and I'm sitting on a fortune of crap that I've never even considered selling because it wasn't worth my time to haul it around. The point is if you are looking solely to make ISK, exploration isn't really worth it. If you are out poking around, looking for wormholes or even looking for relic sites why wouldn't you run the data sites as well? You are there anyway. If you are looking to maximize your ISK/Hour, you can do almost anything other than exploration and make more.
You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose.
Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.
|
Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
163
|
Posted - 2017.04.21 18:02:17 -
[43] - Quote
Krysalys Terminus wrote:I am thinking that I am not the first to say this, but regarding Known Space Data Sites.... and excluding the Sleeper Sites.... Data sites are trash. In a relic site, if you make X isk in 5 cans, on average, it will take you 5 data sites with 5 cans in each site, to make that same X isk.... I am fairly sure that it is NOT an exaggeration to say that 90% of all players who run Cosmic Signatures skip over every Data site that they see, simply because the massive likelihood that it will be a utter waste of time is so high... What is being done to rectify this?
THIS SHALL BE DEALT WITH!!!!!!! |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
284
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 01:27:55 -
[44] - Quote
Data sites are trash everywhere except ghost sites and sleeper caches If there's no bpc don't bother and just move on, and by bpc I mean a good bpc.
|
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
284
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 01:29:09 -
[45] - Quote
Joey Bags wrote: Exploration throughout the EvE universe was my main activity for a long while. I still do it but to a much lesser degree. Would run every data or relic site that I came across and took everything that dropped (even carbon). I'm still sitting on quite a bit that I have collected. Relic sites on average do pay better than data, but the single biggest payout I've ever encountered was from a data site worth billions of ISK. Other sites I've run were not worth much so I just stockpile the stuff until for some reason the market explodes on an item or 2 and I'm sitting on a fortune of crap that I've never even considered selling because it wasn't worth my time to haul it around. The point is if you are looking solely to make ISK, exploration isn't really worth it. If you are out poking around, looking for wormholes or even looking for relic sites why wouldn't you run the data sites as well? You are there anyway. If you are looking to maximize your ISK/Hour, you can do almost anything other than exploration and make more.
What was the drop? |
Hello Meow Kitty
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
30
|
Posted - 2017.04.22 22:46:57 -
[46] - Quote
So what you are asking is the current prerequisite amount of data cores for invention be increased? |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
10
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 01:46:41 -
[47] - Quote
why not add blue loot into data sites?
or just create a new item that will drop in data sites and will work the same as blue loot - certain stations (different stations than those buying blue loot obviously) will buy it for set ammount of isk |
Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 02:30:25 -
[48] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:Joey Bags wrote: Exploration throughout the EvE universe was my main activity for a long while. I still do it but to a much lesser degree. Would run every data or relic site that I came across and took everything that dropped (even carbon). I'm still sitting on quite a bit that I have collected. Relic sites on average do pay better than data, but the single biggest payout I've ever encountered was from a data site worth billions of ISK. Other sites I've run were not worth much so I just stockpile the stuff until for some reason the market explodes on an item or 2 and I'm sitting on a fortune of crap that I've never even considered selling because it wasn't worth my time to haul it around. The point is if you are looking solely to make ISK, exploration isn't really worth it. If you are out poking around, looking for wormholes or even looking for relic sites why wouldn't you run the data sites as well? You are there anyway. If you are looking to maximize your ISK/Hour, you can do almost anything other than exploration and make more.
What was the drop?
I will only say it was multiple large run, expensive (at the time) BPC's. I almost lost it to a gate camp too! I was going to try to make more by building the stuff myself, but after a week I realized it was going to take too much time for me to gather the stuff to build myself. So I let the industrialists do it.
You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose.
Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.
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