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Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2017.02.22 17:43:53 -
[1] - Quote
Here's the argument, this was posted in the Assembly Hall.
Black Pedro wrote:
Highsec has been unsafe for almost 13 years and the game has not ground to a halt. If anything, the game grew faster at times when highsec was less safe earlier in Eve's history. Suicide ganking (and other conflict) facilitates the competition that gives things value in this game. It makes the game much more interesting by meaning the players that min/max production most efficiently don't always win - defending your stuff is a concern which you as a producer/industrialist have to balance against pure yield. This conflict literally prevents the economy from being driven into the ground by overproduction and gives our virtual assets meaning.
For years Gankers have been spewing out this argument, and apparently for just as long people and players have been daunted by it, no doubt, because they have been unable to gather information to contradict it. CCP won't release the numbers of people who quit after being Suicide ganked. Or the numbers of people who cite having been Suicide ganked as the reason they are quitting. So, the Suicide Gankers have been having a field day mystifying everyone who complains on the forums with their absolutely absurd arguments.
When I first bought my first Pirate Battleship it cost over 1 Billion Isk. The Machariel was awesome! Well worth the price. However, almost immediately after buying my first pirate BS the price of them began to drop, and has been dropping steadily ever since. Right now, the pirate battleships are selling for just over 300mil isk. And if this trend continues the price of a Pirate Battleship will drop to below the price of a T1 Battleship! Clearly, the Pirate Battleship are being over-produced and the price of them is being driven into the ground.
At the same time, the price of T1 Battleship has risen slowly and the price of Maruaders has held steady at well over 1 Billion ISK.
It is the price of Pirate Battleship that proves the absurdity of the ganker argument, that ganking maintains the value of items in the game! Ganking doesn't maintain anything! Ganking drives away players and has NO benefit for the game whatsoever!
And the reason why the price of Pirate Battleship is going down is because they are being OVER-PRODUCED in Low and Null Sec! Because it is in Low Sec and Null Sec where there is NO competition! Low Sec and Null Sec players are greedily, voraciously farming LP with the pirate factions then turning that LP into Pirate ships which they are literally flooding the market with. I bet they don't even notice the steady drop in price!!!
Why aren't the shining, holy Gankers riding to the rescue of the market and Ganking the corps and players that are farming pirate LP and protecting the market from being driven into the ground which is the righteous, holy quest of the Gankers???
Because ... you're ... full ... of ... ......!!!
The sole purpose of the Gankers is to Grief other players! This is why Gankers have shifted from Suicide Ganking HULK's to suicide ganking Maruaders and other high sec blinged out ships! Because its about attacking Soft targets of high value because that guarantees Grief. Nothing but Bullies kicking over everyone's sandcastle but their own!
Trying to justify taking other kids' lunch-money by saying its good for the school economy!
Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
362
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Posted - 2017.02.22 17:48:22 -
[2] - Quote
* overheating popcorns * |
Jenn aSide
shinigami miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
15208
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Posted - 2017.02.22 17:57:03 -
[3] - Quote
IB4L?
A real good example here of someone seeing only what they want, and confusing facts.
He mentions LP for pirate battleships. Not one mention of the fact that CCP increased the escalation chances for anomalies (which means more escalations, which means more pirate battleship BPCs).
And then he displays more ignorance by suggesting that pirate battleships will cost less than T1. Meaning he doesn't understand how the price of something can't dip below the cost of the materials used to build it.... Pirate battleships were way overpriced do to scarcity, they are cheaper now because of CCP increasing escalation chances.
I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec? |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1285
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Posted - 2017.02.22 17:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
This thread wont end well.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Krin Dessat
Far Runner
32
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Posted - 2017.02.22 18:08:26 -
[5] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:* overheating popcorns *
Dont forget the nanite paste topping |
Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2017.02.22 18:13:02 -
[6] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:IB4L?
I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec? Shouldn't you be asking the Suicide Gankers who claim that Suicide Ganking protects the market from being driven into the ground???
How Batshit crazy do you have to be to NOT understand that???
Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!
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Krin Dessat
Far Runner
32
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Posted - 2017.02.22 18:20:48 -
[7] - Quote
Methinks someone is taking this game waaaaaayyyyy too seriously
Regardless of reasons (or lack thereof) - gankers will do what gankers will do. They have fun doing it and It is a profitable way of playing.
I carebear as much as the next guy (is that a verb?) but honestly, if HS was actually safe, I'd quit out of sheer boredom.
Take a deep breath OP, maybe take a step back and stop focusing on what you perceive as negative. Focus on the positive. Maybe actually talk (politely) to a few gankers - some are quite friendly. It may provide you with new insights
My 0.02 ISK |
Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2017.02.22 18:23:51 -
[8] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
And then he displays more ignorance by suggesting that pirate battleships will cost less than T1. Meaning he doesn't understand how the price of something can't dip below the cost of the materials used to build it.... Pirate battleships were way overpriced do to scarcity, they are cheaper now because of CCP increasing escalation chances.
Also, Material wise, Pirate Battleship require less materials to produce that a T1 Battleship! Therefore, the Price of a Pirate Battleship CAN fall to below the price of a T1 Battleship!
Who displays Ignorance???
Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
125
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Posted - 2017.02.22 19:06:49 -
[9] - Quote
In before the gankers?! Arrrggghh... damn... too late
So are rattlers 300 mill now? *pulls out the wallet* |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
341
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Posted - 2017.02.22 19:11:53 -
[10] - Quote
Spenser for Hire wrote:Why aren't the shining, holy Gankers riding to the rescue of the market and Ganking the corps and players that are farming pirate LP and protecting the market from being driven into the ground which is the righteous, holy quest of the Gankers?
Because gankers haven't taken a vow to protect the market. They gank people because it's both fun and profitable.
Also, you should probably look at the study CCP did that basically says you're wrong. People who got ganked were actually more likely to stay with EvE. I'd further argue that someone who gets ganked and quits as a result wasn't going to stay with EvE for more than a few months anyway, although I'm afraid I can't offer up any empirical evidence for that.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2676
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Posted - 2017.02.22 19:23:14 -
[11] - Quote
I, for one, welcome faction BSs costing less than T1. suh-weet! market factors schmarket factors
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
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Cade Windstalker
871
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Posted - 2017.02.22 19:24:56 -
[12] - Quote
Dark Lord Trump wrote:Also, you should probably look at the study CCP did that basically says you're wrong. People who got ganked were actually more likely to stay with EvE. I'd further argue that someone who gets ganked and quits as a result wasn't going to stay with EvE for more than a few months anyway, although I'm afraid I can't offer up any empirical evidence for that.
I can't find the original source on this, but wasn't it that players who get a ship blown up by another player are generally more likely to stay subbed? I don't believe the comment differentiated between the newbie who ventures into Low and gets popped and then has their mistake explained from the people who, for whatever reason, get randomly ganked in High Sec.
That said, yeah OP's whole argument is pretty bad... |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2596
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Posted - 2017.02.22 19:37:52 -
[13] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:IB4L?
A real good example here of someone seeing only what they want, and confusing facts.
He mentions LP for pirate battleships. Not one mention of the fact that CCP increased the escalation chances for anomalies (which means more escalations, which means more pirate battleship BPCs).
And then he displays more ignorance by suggesting that pirate battleships will cost less than T1. Meaning he doesn't understand how the price of something can't dip below the cost of the materials used to build it.... Pirate battleships were way overpriced do to scarcity, they are cheaper now because of CCP increasing escalation chances.
I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec? nice coherent responds to a post that I was left saying "wait what!?" to
the only thing I can really think of is isk/ehp ratios that mission runners and haulers, and not gankers, came up with to hopefully fly under the gankers radar. Or maybe something about production vs destruction, which according to the last econ blog we were producing far more than we were destroying, but I'm pretty sure that has been mostly true for a long time now.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Keno Skir
1310
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Posted - 2017.02.22 19:39:50 -
[14] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Also, you should probably look at the study CCP did that basically says you're wrong. People who got ganked were actually more likely to stay with EvE. I'd further argue that someone who gets ganked and quits as a result wasn't going to stay with EvE for more than a few months anyway, although I'm afraid I can't offer up any empirical evidence for that. I can't find the original source on this, but wasn't it that players who get a ship blown up by another player are generally more likely to stay subbed? I don't believe the comment differentiated between the newbie who ventures into Low and gets popped and then has their mistake explained from the people who, for whatever reason, get randomly ganked in High Sec. That said, yeah OP's whole argument is pretty bad...
Though i'm hazy as well, i actually think they did differentiate with regard to the statistic about ganking retain rates.
OP : Hardy har har har your lack of understanding is so deep you're lost in it. Try asking in local for an exit
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
<Gùï> Contact me regarding my trusted Alliance Creation Service <Gùï>
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5706
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Posted - 2017.02.22 20:24:56 -
[15] - Quote
Is this about the three Incursion-fit blinged Vindicators that got ganked on acceleration gates? Because that was due to the Incursion FC being a total d*ck with respect to a contest payout on his Twitch live stream.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Demolishar
United Aggression Corpse Collectors Group
1230
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Posted - 2017.02.22 20:36:19 -
[16] - Quote
You only have to provide a role-play or objective-based explanation to justify your griefing to avoid getting banned for harassment. Noone said it had to be a GOOD explanation. |
Torin Corax
Game of Roams
248
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Posted - 2017.02.22 20:49:41 -
[17] - Quote
So, does the Op want people to suicide-gank more Machariels then?
I'm sure that could be arranged.
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Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
38
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Posted - 2017.02.22 21:10:06 -
[18] - Quote
Torin Corax wrote:So, does the Op want people to suicide-gank more Machariels then?
I'm sure that could be arranged.
Indeed. Since Ganking protects the value of ships, let's see the righteous Suicide Gankers work their market magic and gank the Machariel back to above 1 Billion isk.
Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1129
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Posted - 2017.02.22 21:26:19 -
[19] - Quote
EvE players don't quit because of suicide ganks.
WoW players do that.
Go back to WoW.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1129
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Posted - 2017.02.22 21:29:22 -
[20] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:You only have to provide a role-play or objective-based explanation to justify your griefing to avoid getting banned for harassment. Noone said it had to be a GOOD explanation.
Contrary to popular belief, this is not true. You don't need a role-play or objective-based explanation to gank.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
126
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Posted - 2017.02.22 21:32:24 -
[21] - Quote
Nobody likes to be ganked (unless u have a sick fetish impo) but it happens.
People gank ... because they can. |
Eve Griefer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2017.02.22 22:22:59 -
[22] - Quote
Spenser for Hire wrote:
The sole purpose of the Gankers is to Grief other players! This is why Gankers have shifted from Suicide Ganking HULK's to suicide ganking Maruaders and other high sec blinged out ships! Because its about attacking Soft targets of high value because that guarantees Grief. Nothing but Bullies kicking over everyone's sandcastle but their own!
If the loot fairy is kind and the bling drops, then the gankers have made on their investment. Profit is all the reason needed.
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Spenser for Hire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2017.02.22 22:36:35 -
[23] - Quote
Eve Griefer wrote:Spenser for Hire wrote:
The sole purpose of the Gankers is to Grief other players! This is why Gankers have shifted from Suicide Ganking HULK's to suicide ganking Maruaders and other high sec blinged out ships! Because its about attacking Soft targets of high value because that guarantees Grief. Nothing but Bullies kicking over everyone's sandcastle but their own!
If the loot fairy is kind and the bling drops, then the gankers have made on their investment. Profit is all the reason needed. the simplicity and the honesty are definitely appreciated.
And once again, EVE Online's so-called "Risk Vs. Reward" ethos is proven to be yet another of the myths that abound.
20 to 25 pilots in ships worth 2mil each gank a high value, soft target worth more than 2 billion, at the very least, and the Gankers walk away with hundreds of millions of ISK! They faced NO RISK whatsoever and reaped high rewards!
Don't ask me to post with my main! You post with your main first!
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LouHodo
Minmatar Brotherhood Ushra'Khan
49
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Posted - 2017.02.22 22:48:41 -
[24] - Quote
Spenser for Hire wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:IB4L?
I mean really, how batshit crazy do you have to be to conflate pirate BS prices, ganking, and safety in high sec? Shouldn't you be asking that of the Suicide Gankers who claim that Suicide Ganking protects the market from being driven into the ground??? How Batshit crazy do you have to be to NOT understand that???
No offense but you can just report them for abuse and violation of the EULA rule 6 section C, item 16. Which is the catchall which in short says, "If it makes the game unfun for you, then it is against the rules."
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
47111
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Posted - 2017.02.22 23:15:33 -
[25] - Quote
Let me get this straight:
OP is butthurt that his Billion ISK battleship is no longer worth a Billion ISK. Blames gankers, apparently for not ganking enough, while saying there is no room in the game for ganking?
Interesting new take on the grrr ganker argument. |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1129
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Posted - 2017.02.22 23:25:08 -
[26] - Quote
Eve Griefer wrote:Spenser for Hire wrote:
The sole purpose of the Gankers is to Grief other players! This is why Gankers have shifted from Suicide Ganking HULK's to suicide ganking Maruaders and other high sec blinged out ships! Because its about attacking Soft targets of high value because that guarantees Grief. Nothing but Bullies kicking over everyone's sandcastle but their own!
If the loot fairy is kind and the bling drops, then the gankers have made on their investment. Profit is all the reason needed.
Nope. Not true. Profit is not required.
Where do you people get this stuff?
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Eve Griefer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2017.02.22 23:39:23 -
[27] - Quote
Galaxy Pig wrote:Eve Griefer wrote:Spenser for Hire wrote:
The sole purpose of the Gankers is to Grief other players! This is why Gankers have shifted from Suicide Ganking HULK's to suicide ganking Maruaders and other high sec blinged out ships! Because its about attacking Soft targets of high value because that guarantees Grief. Nothing but Bullies kicking over everyone's sandcastle but their own!
If the loot fairy is kind and the bling drops, then the gankers have made on their investment. Profit is all the reason needed. Nope. Not true. Profit is not required. Where do you people get this stuff?
Maybe I didn't word that as well as I might. I was simply trying to explain to the OP one reason for ganking that he might understand. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
27742
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Posted - 2017.02.22 23:40:49 -
[28] - Quote
Spenser for Hire wrote:20 to 25 pilots in ships worth 2mil each gank a high value, soft target worth more than 2 billion, at the very least, and the Gankers walk away with hundreds of millions of ISK! And? Are you saying that the value of a "soft target" should determine the value of the stuff required to wreck it? I've got bad news for you, it doesn't work that way, in Eve or in the real world.
Why shouldn't the efforts of the many overwhelm the efforts, or lack thereof, of the one?
Quote:They faced NO RISK whatsoever and reaped high rewards! That they accepted the risk doesn't mean that the risk doesn't exist
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1492
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Posted - 2017.02.23 00:09:21 -
[29] - Quote
Ah well. This is at least a refreshingly new blend of wine.
Sk+íl!
Remove standings and insurance.
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
341
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Posted - 2017.02.23 00:20:29 -
[30] - Quote
Spenser for Hire wrote:Eve Griefer wrote:Spenser for Hire wrote:
The sole purpose of the Gankers is to Grief other players! This is why Gankers have shifted from Suicide Ganking HULK's to suicide ganking Maruaders and other high sec blinged out ships! Because its about attacking Soft targets of high value because that guarantees Grief. Nothing but Bullies kicking over everyone's sandcastle but their own!
If the loot fairy is kind and the bling drops, then the gankers have made on their investment. Profit is all the reason needed. the simplicity and the honesty are definitely appreciated. And once again, EVE Online's so-called "Risk Vs. Reward" ethos is proven to be yet another of the myths that abound. 20 to 25 pilots in ships worth 2mil each gank a high value, soft target worth more than 2 billion, at the very least, and the Gankers walk away with hundreds of millions of ISK! They faced NO RISK whatsoever and reaped high rewards! They risk that the gank might fail because a ship scanner gave imperfect intel (they do that) or some joker decloaks his Falcon and jams out half the gank fleet. Furthermore, the only reason they make so much is because of a deliberate choice of their target to fly so blingy.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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