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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1293
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Posted - 2017.02.23 15:54:24 -
[61] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:
HiCs in space. Well, you are on some grid with a fleet supported by a HiC or several. So either you run or you have enough to think that it-¦s fine to fight. I don-¦t see any reason why someone could not avoid a HiC point in "open space".
The same old argument was used to defend Skynet, skynet 2.0 and offgrid booster. "You don't have to fight! Just run"
Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-)
Trajan Unknown wrote:
here are a lot of things that will completely ruin your day when you fly solo or in a small gang but people should not cry all day but improve.
And running as you suggested will help me improve? :P No, we adapted. But we have been flying 100mn cruisers for over 2 years now. Partly because of hics, partly because of Fighter buff. And I'm sick of it. It's just boring. It's always nice if the meta gets shaking up and you have to adapt all over again :)
Remember that this is a game. I hope this helps you to understand my point of view.
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1293
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Posted - 2017.02.23 15:56:26 -
[62] - Quote
Galendil wrote:No one I know is asking for this. Why?
Cancer Garmurs and Orthrus already own the spacelanes
Keeping a class dominant over a whole play style just because two ships are out of place is not a good solution.
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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Messoroz
aquila inc Verge of Collapse
510
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Posted - 2017.02.23 15:56:54 -
[63] - Quote
All I see here is tears about people crying they can no longer counter kiting with an I win button.
Are people so bad they can't use an Lachesis or Arazu in a gang effectively to counter nano gangs?
I've played this game since 2009. I've been in countless nanogangs. Effective use of an Arazu or Lachesis was always possible agaisnt nano gangs. In fact nano vs nano gang with both sides having one of the two ships always made perhaps the most amazing fights in this game with the amount of strategy and planning immense to be able not to die instantly and pick off the enemy. |
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns WE FORM V0LTA
124
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Posted - 2017.02.23 15:56:54 -
[64] - Quote
Hi
As a frequent abuser of a kiting devoter, I find this change very welcome. Well, not sure of the proposion, but the fact that I could fly a 400m isk cruiser with 37pointsomething km scram while doing 400ish dps to that very same range and above, while having deacent tank and good mobility was totally overpowered. That's from a abusive point of view.
As a kiter, I also feel the 37pointsomething km scram was totally overpowered to the defenders of kiting. It has become the standard "togo" ship of any homedefencefleet. Thus we, the kiters have had to come up with other **** to counter that.
The fact is, that we "the evil kiters" are going to come up with ways to keep kiting. You can create a rorqual with 200km infinitipointscram90%web bubble and we will find a way to counter that. That however lessens the options by a ton. The homedefencefleets still can have their 40ish km scram with a faction scram linked lach/arazu. A ship that can even get reps while scramming.
However, I would like to see hics to get a niche. As we now have any warp disruptor able to point titans and supers and as we have interdictors who drops bubbles and command dessies who can teleport the said bubbles where-ever, I feel the hic should have a role to fullfill. While it still remains a good tackler to a supercapital in lowsek, in 0.0 a dictor performs way better in most cases due to it's mobility and due to hictors inability to receive reps while bubbling/pointing. Maybe some racial ewar bubbles? Broadsword doing web bubbles, where a phobos is doing what hics do now, where a onyx is having an ecm bubble and a devoter a neutbubble. And they should be able to receive reps atleast on some level. |
Alice Fury
Nox Explorator
1
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:02:12 -
[65] - Quote
RIP HIC's. Other ships do their only job better now. This sucks, I put a lot of time in to getting HIC V and T2 Bubbles just for the Scram range.
CCP what would be the reason to undock a HIC now? Anti-Booshing? Better hope you can get on that CD with your short range before they get their boosh off. Is that what HIC's are relegated to now, countering a destroyer?
Bummer |
Lucian James
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
135
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:02:24 -
[66] - Quote
Ugly Eric wrote:Hi
As a kiter, I also feel the 37pointsomething km scram was totally overpowered to the defenders of kiting. It has become the standard "togo" ship of any homedefencefleet. Thus we, the kiters have had to come up with other **** to counter that.
I've played this game 9 years in big alliances and not once have i see a home defense fleet go out with a HIC in it.
Plus how are one or two hics going to help out a defense fleet against kyters? By trapping one or two of a WHOLE fleet of kyters?
And what idiot kyters are kyting under 35-40km anyway? Outside of neut/hic/bonused-web range is WHERE YOU KYTE.
What are you smoking? Can you pass it this way?
I thought this game was for smart people. |
Whippy Whip
Pan Intergalactic Industries
2
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:02:30 -
[67] - Quote
who needs hics when you have an invulnerable version in the rorq
#ccpbalancing |
Atlan Dallocort
Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots
75
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:03:59 -
[68] - Quote
The nerf is a bit too much in my opinion. The combination of scram effect and 40k infinite point was the problem, not the 40k range. Hics aren't that fast. A small scale gang can just burn out of range if the effect is only like a warp disruptor (they are already able to deal with Lachs huh?). But tackling caps is getting harder. And thats not necessary because the capability of caps to clear tackle became already a lot better (HAW guns, fighter/fibo application).
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Tomoko Sunji
Drama Sutra Incorporated.
1
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:04:40 -
[69] - Quote
Alice Fury wrote:RIP HIC's. Other ships do their only job better now. This sucks, I put a lot of time in to getting HIC V and T2 Bubbles just for the Scram range.
CCP what would be the reason to undock a HIC now? Anti-Booshing? Better hope you can get on that CD with your short range before they get their boosh off. Is that what HIC's are relegated to now, countering a destroyer?
Bummer
Mobile bubble with 25km radius that can scramble at 20km, is it that hard to figure out ? |
Scath Bererund
SergalJerk Test Alliance Please Ignore
40
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:05:31 -
[70] - Quote
As always its **** the players who come up with a counter to one of thier pet project ships.
Nothing that counters the mordus legion can possably be balenced! |
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ViolentDesire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
145
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:09:04 -
[71] - Quote
If the intention is to reduce the range - which is the case, heat for more range doesn't make any sense. |
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
95
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:10:11 -
[72] - Quote
omg why? HICs r pretty expensive and only chance how to point these annoying kite plague around and it is nerfed :-(
sry for my English :-(
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Demolishar
United Aggression Corpse Collectors Group
1231
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:10:35 -
[73] - Quote
Give it a heat bonus to tackle range then pls... |
Mizhir
TURN LEFT
74858
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:11:41 -
[74] - Quote
I see alot of people talking about the Mordus Legion ships. If they are the problem then the sensible thing is to nerf them rather than have a class of ship that counters a wide array of ships.
Ted McManfist wrote:Mizhir wrote:Hans Downherpantz wrote:brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob.
It is pretty much the same thing. People don't want to waste their ship on a fight they got no chance of winning.
One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
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Ransu Asanari
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
515
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:11:57 -
[75] - Quote
Glad to see this change. This was discussed during the original HIC rebalance, so I'm glad to see it revisited. |
Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
407
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:12:13 -
[76] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing. On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
811
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:12:40 -
[77] - Quote
Scath Bererund wrote:As always its **** the players who come up with a counter to one of thier pet project ships.
Nothing that counters the mordus legion can possably be balenced!
Its funny, cause its not mordus that got countered hard, but brawly BS and BC as a HIC renders MJD mobility useless. You can cry about MJD being a cheap way to escape, but i counter that your gang was just too cowardly to commit and scram me, and instead relied on kiting (the very thing people like you are bitching and moaning about) with a 100k EHP, double bubble, 37km scram HIC.
Its funny, but sad that you think this is only about mordus being oppressed.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Make the Muninn great again!
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Atlas Aurilia
Stain Security Forces X13 Alliance
0
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:16:09 -
[78] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:
Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-)
So titans are not optimal in the game? |
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance
83
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:17:46 -
[79] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing. On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them. I love these responses because they apply to no one. Lucy does the same thing we do. Damp it, or use a prop mod unaffected by scrams. The only effect it has on us is to make us fly more oppressive ships to kill you with.
A little help for your future attempts at making a coherent argument on the subject - damps are much more effective than jams ;) |
Mizhir
TURN LEFT
74861
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:17:47 -
[80] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing. On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them.
HICs have already been countered with 100mn ships and damps. It just gets boring after a while.
One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
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l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1300
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:20:30 -
[81] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:Give it a heat bonus to tackle range then pls...
So, that will not change anything then?
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1300
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:22:39 -
[82] - Quote
Atlas Aurilia wrote:l0rd carlos wrote:
Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-)
So titans are not optimal in the game?
I don't know, I have no experience with those. What play style or class do they oppress?
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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Skia Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
409
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:26:31 -
[83] - Quote
Fifth Blade wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing. On the other side are the "experts" who think HICs cannot be countered. Because jams are kind of a religious taboo for them. I love these responses because they apply to no one. Lucy does the same thing we do... Lucy is an ignorant ****, that's all I wanted to say. Both sides have their right to express their opinion. Respect your opponents and dont through insults without putting an argument in it. |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
111
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:32:54 -
[84] - Quote
InSTiiNK Loutte wrote:After giving the ability to Rorqual to be SuperHictors, and you know retrograte HICs to be **** pointers.
I find the idea absolutely ridiculous.
In my honest opinion, you CCP, better keep proper gamerplay to proper ship types, and the last ship that needs a nerf is a HIC, and the first, is the Rorqual. So before Nerfing any other ships, nerf rorquals to give them back their natural gameplay, mining. At the same time, I find this very funny from a Pandemic Legion guy, upgrading Rorquals, and now they don't need HICs anymore, they downgrade them. :)
"My job here is done"
Best Regards, InSTiiNK Loutte
Well, Hyde has actually nothing to do with PL outside of being in there. And he is in there because his friends joined PL. He flys solo all the time and mostly Battleships so of course he wants HiCs to get nerfed. They **** with his MJD and since he is slow as **** too he can-¦t run away just MJD away except there-¦s a HiC. Pretty certain he has nothing to do with Rorquals at all. He is like Suitonia pretty much who joined PL for god knows what reason but just kept doing what he did before. Now he is in Goons or was last time. But from what I can tell he-¦s just doing his own **** and has nothing to do with Goons. Same with Hyde so when Hyde is pushing for something it-¦s from a solo player view, not from a PL view. |
Suitonia
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
757
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:35:15 -
[85] - Quote
I think 40% of current HIC scram range would be more reasonable; 15km T2 / 15.75km Faction.
But this is much better than the current cancer so thanks.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
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Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous
Concordiat Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:42:25 -
[86] - Quote
yeah, nerf HICs into the ground while the rorqual remains a better HIC than actual HICs
ggwp CCP |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
111
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:43:51 -
[87] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:I think 40% of current HIC scram range would be more reasonable; 15km T2 / 15.75km Faction.
But this is much better than the current cancer so thanks.
Do you have any arguments outside of being touched somewhere by a HiC?
l0rd carlos wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:
HiCs in space. Well, you are on some grid with a fleet supported by a HiC or several. So either you run or you have enough to think that it-¦s fine to fight. I don-¦t see any reason why someone could not avoid a HiC point in "open space".
The same old argument was used to defend Skynet, skynet 2.0 and offgrid booster. "You don't have to fight! Just run"Yes, you can. But if a ship is so strong, that you just need to bring one of them to scare the enemy away then maybe it's not optimal in a pvp game ;-) Trajan Unknown wrote:
here are a lot of things that will completely ruin your day when you fly solo or in a small gang but people should not cry all day but improve.
And running as you suggested will help me improve? :P No, we adapted. But we have been flying 100mn cruisers for over 2 years now. Partly because of hics, partly because of Fighter buff. And I'm sick of it. It's just boring. It's always nice if the meta gets shaking up and you have to adapt all over again :) Remember that this is a game. I hope this helps you to understand my point of view.
Skynet was a complete different thing and it had to be nerfed no question.
HiCs? They are ******* limited in what they can do and when I said "run" I meant you don-¦t have to commit at all. A HiC has no real power projection over a a grid, let alone system. Fighters were pretty much a "shut the whole system down" thingy. Outside of plexes that means. If you want to commit to a fight with a HiC do it else simply don-¦t. So please, where is your argument? At least give me a weak one. The "meta needs changing" is no balance argument at all it barely is one for gameplay. Posts before me mentioned some "hard counters" to HiCs already so there is something. Running 100mn cruisers because of HiCs sound weird to be honest. Running 100mn cruisers for several reasons sounds legit. They are a pain in the ass to pin down except you have "web superiority" and can apply them in time. Else you can ******* run MWDs and commit. After all it-¦s no different from getting caught in close range cruisers by a nano-gang with ceptor support. Can-¦t touch the ceptors really, can-¦t run either. Only thing you can do is die without losing your **** and that-¦s fine.
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l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1307
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:49:04 -
[88] - Quote
Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous wrote:yeah, nerf HICs into the ground while the rorqual remains a better HIC than actual HICs
ggwp CCP Again, just because a single ships is out of whack, we should not stop balancing other classes or modules.
We can do both :)
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1812
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:49:14 -
[89] - Quote
Less HIC cancer is good.
I'd like to see some more interesting gameplay vs just letting it cycle on a target though.
Maybe give the scram script a longer range than what you're proposing, say 40km, with a combined grapple effect, then give it a 10 second activation and slap a 30 - 40 second reactivation on it.
That way it's powerful for snatching targets, and allowing other ships to get on top of them to land hard tackle, but really lacking when it comes to holding a ship down entirely by itself.
Non-scripted HIC beams would continue to have infi-points. |
Tomoko Sunji
Drama Sutra Incorporated.
1
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Posted - 2017.02.23 16:54:27 -
[90] - Quote
Pterry Dactyl Kasterborous wrote:yeah, nerf HICs into the ground while the rorqual remains a better HIC than actual HICs
ggwp CCP
HIC still have 40km point range, Learn to read a patchnote. |
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