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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Syri Taneka
Un4seen Development Sev3rance
145
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Posted - 2017.02.24 03:20:30 -
[211] - Quote
Current script range is 37.5km on t2. 80% of that would be 30, not 20. Typo? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2806
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Posted - 2017.02.24 04:12:39 -
[212] - Quote
If CCP is insistent on this change, I'd recommend not making them quite so drastic. Buff the Lachesis so it can scramble at 37-40 kilometers. Reduce the maximum range on the HIC scrambling infinite point to 27-30 kilometers. That leaves a niche for both ships, without making either one utterly overpowered or useless.
I've been flying these ships for just over a year in small gang / home defense situations. Yes, if you ran into me in your kiting ship this past year, you probably did not have a very good day. Our counter-nano gangs used the Onyx and Huginn to good effect (at least when I was around, I know some of my less-experienced guys and gals got totally wrecked a few times). The Onyx was particularly nice because it could murder tackle, which made it easier to control the engagement. Additionally, it didn't die immediately if you kept your logistics hidden off grid or had them hang back to sucker kiters in.
In the future, I guess I'll use a Lachesis, but it is a very poor substitute for the HIC. In small gangs, as long as we are disciplined about not chasing stupidly, the outcome won't be any different. We'll either catch the kiters and kill them, or they will run away. Since the Lachesis is not as survivable, I expect logistics ships will be more important in the future, which means most of the elite kiters will whine about our logistics and then run away instead of whining about our HIC's and running away.
The small gang HIC's really rely on only using one utility slot for the WDFG. You give up 90 DPS to fit a second WDFG, which hurts in a small gang environment. So, while the overall nerf to the scrambler range is bad, it's worse that you have to drop your long range tackle to switch to the scrambling script, or give up some of your already rather low DPS. Fleet ships won't be as affected by this, because they tend to fit multiple HIC points. So they can keep the long point on something while having the scrambler ready to go if something gets close enough to scram.
Here is the Onyx fit I was using. She'll always have a soft spot in my heart. Decent DPS (~430 with heat), solid tank (~92k EHP with heat), kind of slow (~2200 m/s with heat, ~2700 with heat and boosts), and sluggish, but I had a lot of fun with her.
[Onyx, Onyx] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pith B-Type EM Ward Field Medium Capacitor Booster II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Corelum C-Type 50MN Microwarpdrive
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II Rapid Light Missile Launcher II Rapid Light Missile Launcher II Rapid Light Missile Launcher II Rapid Light Missile Launcher II Warp Disruption Field Generator II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
128
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Posted - 2017.02.24 05:11:55 -
[213] - Quote
Casper24 wrote:
___ Phobos [Phobos, Garmons Addy] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Small Capacitor Booster II Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
Warp Disruption Field Generator II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x2325 Focused Warp Disruption Script x2 Nanite Repair Paste x200 Navy Cap Booster 400 x22 Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M x2490
502 dps with AM with 32km opti and 47km falloff 2361ms cold 36.4k EHP OH and a 37km scram. not to mention cap stable if ur not an idiot
So my point stands, show me a HIC that is tanky and comparable to a nano cruiser when it comes to speed and damage projection/usefulness.
There ya are :)
That looks slightly better than the one Suitonia posted but I am not convinced by it to be honest. Seriously, where are these ships all the time when I am out or digging through EvE data? It-¦s fair game to say that I spend ~2hours a day with "data digging" and roughly 5 hours at least out in space but I seriously haven-¦t seen a single HIC outside of a gatecamp that was even close to something I-¦d call "nasty". Your Phobos looks like it could **** on someones day but I can-¦t find them. Yet some people seem to be absolutely sure they are out there waiting in the dark and will scram them from far away. The pure data tells another story and 5+ hours a day running around looking for **** - currently - in Black Rise gave me the same impression as the data. There are HICs yes but they are on the gates with a sebo Exec or something alike and they are nasty and I don-¦t want them to be there but that-¦s about it. I also see them a lot when I run through Providence, again they are on the gates shitting on a solo/small gang players parade. Seriously. slowly this whole nerf the HIC stuff smells like someone is making **** up here. For whatever reason they do that, I don-¦t know but whenever I am asking for some solid arguments for a nerf not much is coming around here.
- There is not a single HIC that falls into the "nano cruiser" role from what I can tell so far. Too clunky, too slow, too sluggish.
- There is not a single argument for the nerf. Only "because they are OP/insert sth". No logical reason at all. Or did I miss sth?
- There is no data to back up that HICs are destroying small gangs. I just read this "100mn cruisers are the only option". Hell yeah, they are a pretty good option but not because of the HIC but more so because you run into bigger and bigger gangs/fleets out there all the time and getting pinned down by suicide tacklers is a serious thing. The 100mn option is simply too good to pass on in most cases. No sigbloom, no negative cap, no fear of scrams no matter what source.
- The community never had a problem with the new HIC except some vocals when the HIC buff came back then.
When I look at the HIC from a Hyde point of view or a pure solo player pov yeah, I want a HIC nerf because they screw my gameplay. From every other pov I don-¦t see a justification in a nerf to the HIC.
But maybe we are not on the same page the whole time and "small gang" needs clarification here. Not sure but if you take less than 10 ships including scout and light tackle the HIC seems to be a pegleg and you-¦re better off min/maxing your ****. If you go with 12 to 20 ships the counters towards a HIC are plentyful so it-¦s somewhat balanced. But for the sake of it, can someone clarify their pov on this and feed some data?
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Casper24
Oblivion Watch HYDRA RELOADED
12
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Posted - 2017.02.24 07:03:40 -
[214] - Quote
I dunno about all ur data diving. But simple as - how many people in this game ( percent wise ) do u think actually think on their own fits. not anything found on zkill or some youtube video. In each group of people how many "content: providers and forward-thinking" people are there out there for u to actually find.
This number is much higher in the FW frig meta granted, but for cruiser roaming - there are very few. That is why imo ur "data" or whatever that means isn't showing you what some of us are mentioning. Everyone and their mom is in an orthrus, a gila, a vni or omen navy. Why ?? cause that's what someone else who saw someone else, or was killed by one of these were flying.
Searching stats or zkill or whatever ur doing is never going to show u the most powerful ships or best setups. Just the most popular, and thats a never ending cycle until some "e-famous something" points it out. See chessurs nose, Suitonias kessy, Zoes Atron, Brains Keres. Everyone in different circles has their own things to insert there. But you get the picture.
smack allowed in english only
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Vexors Gonna Vex
The Spies Must Flow
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 07:43:36 -
[215] - Quote
Yes, cause you haven't already given enough tools to the EVE population to avoid conflict.
Just give everything interdiction nullification so I can quit hoping small gang PVP comes back and unsub. |
Solaris Vex
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
10
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Posted - 2017.02.24 08:00:08 -
[216] - Quote
So fleet hics will now be replaced by huggins and bhaalgorns. A range reduction to 30-35km scram would have be much more reasonable. RIP hics , RIP ship variety. |
Huydo
Tr0pa de elite. Northern Coalition.
68
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Posted - 2017.02.24 08:00:55 -
[217] - Quote
With this changes, this class of ships, will be completely useless. |
yogizh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
41
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Posted - 2017.02.24 08:18:09 -
[218] - Quote
Huydo wrote:With this changes, this class of ships, will be completely useless.
:agreed: I just wonder what is going to be the next ship that requires months of skills and will be nerfed to the level where 2 faction frigates can kill them. Seems legit.
CCP remove ability of cruisers to fit 100 MN ABs, not changing properties, but simply Dissalow usage on this class. Then you will see what this is really about
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Solaris Vex
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
10
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Posted - 2017.02.24 08:34:11 -
[219] - Quote
Casper24 wrote:[quote=Trajan Unknown][quote=Suitonia][quote] ___ Phobos [Phobos, Garmons Addy] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Small Capacitor Booster II Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
Warp Disruption Field Generator II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II 250mm Railgun II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M x2325 Focused Warp Disruption Script x2 Nanite Repair Paste x200 Navy Cap Booster 400 x22 Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M x2490
502 dps with AM with 32km opti and 47km falloff 2361ms cold 36.4k EHP OH and a 37km scram. not to mention cap stable if ur not an idiot
So my point stands, show me a HIC that is tanky and comparable to a nano cruiser when it comes to speed and damage projection/usefulness.
There ya are :)
Hmm a phobos with no rep and minimal buffer. Any ship with a rep and decent damage at 37km would outlast this quite easily. A Gila would be cheaper and stronger.
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Vladislav Igorevic
Blackjack and Hookers corp. Infinity Space.
34
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Posted - 2017.02.24 10:03:13 -
[220] - Quote
-º-+ -é-¦-+, -+-+-Å-é-î -ò-¦-¦ -ü-¦-¦-é-ï-¦-¦-¦-é-ü-Å -¦ -ú-ô? |
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Luscius Uta
241
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Posted - 2017.02.24 10:19:49 -
[221] - Quote
Should've been like that from the start.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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ikir
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 11:19:53 -
[222] - Quote
well thx guys you just killed HICs again t1 frig can now hold you down in your HIC, also next time you want to balance something you should try and compare the time invested in maxing out some ship before nerfing it to the ground, i could agree to 24-27km scram range but this is just pointless also you might wanna answer to cry babies for once they should maybe adapt and try to evolve in tactics instead of just killing entire line of ships gg |
Nut Cullet
League of Gentlemen Just let it happen
8
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Posted - 2017.02.24 12:00:21 -
[223] - Quote
what a Rubbish idea, i might as well utalise one the mid slots and fit a warp disrupter and get 24k range from t2 instead - no ones gonna bother fitting a script , when they just fit a mid slot that has more range than the top slot and does the same thing |
Lucy Callagan
TURN LEFT
223
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Posted - 2017.02.24 12:10:49 -
[224] - Quote
Nut Cullet wrote:what a Rubbish idea, i might as well utalise one the mid slots and fit a warp disrupter and get 24k range from t2 instead - no ones gonna bother fitting a script , when they just fit a mid slot that has more range than the top slot and does the same thing
Are sure you understand the difference between a warp scrambler/wsfg and a warp disruptor ? |
Nut Cullet
League of Gentlemen Just let it happen
8
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Posted - 2017.02.24 12:37:52 -
[225] - Quote
time to buy those skill extractors , and rip Hics out my head as its now gonna be an unwanted useless ship \o/ |
Lucy Callagan
TURN LEFT
223
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Posted - 2017.02.24 12:49:40 -
[226] - Quote
Nice edit !
So to quote myself:
Lucy Callagan wrote:I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3813
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Posted - 2017.02.24 12:51:04 -
[227] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:The new Focused Warp Scrambling Script will have the following ranges (with max skills): - T1: 16km
- Meta: 18km
- T2: 20km
- Faction: 21km
well at least we know the range is balanced and at least with heat the lach can now out do the hic always seemed strange it was better.
be nice if shorter range scripts for both the point and scram were added that came with reduced cap costs.
also
can we please get a bubble script that lowers the radius so that a level V hic can get around the same size as a level 1? sometimes you need smaller bubbles and it kinda sucks that once you skill it up you can't reset (other than extractors but that's not really viable)
BLOPS Hauler
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ArmyOfMe
Hull Breach. Reverberation Project
625
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Posted - 2017.02.24 13:05:24 -
[228] - Quote
Pandemic Horde Rulez wrote:hahaha look at these small gang pvpers like TURN LEFT TURN RIGHT into the dumpster hahahahaha.
listen all u small gang people leave ur corp apply to pandemic horde or karmafleet this should be only and best way to pvp in this game tbh you should always lose to more people doesnt matter how good at the game you are how bad we are, HIC should = you die to us even if we just assign drone to FC and go AFK.
It's MMO for reason.
if u want to play skill game go play DOTA or Overwatch lmao
HIC is good because it completely broken and overpowered but at same time difficult for smaller side to use because it slow and expensive so easy for us to blob. this is good balance mechanic.
I love how this comes from some dumbass in a noob corp that dont have the guts to post with his main
GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3813
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Posted - 2017.02.24 13:22:41 -
[229] - Quote
ArmyOfMe wrote:Pandemic Horde Rulez wrote:hahaha look at these small gang pvpers like TURN LEFT TURN RIGHT into the dumpster hahahahaha.
listen all u small gang people leave ur corp apply to pandemic horde or karmafleet this should be only and best way to pvp in this game tbh you should always lose to more people doesnt matter how good at the game you are how bad we are, HIC should = you die to us even if we just assign drone to FC and go AFK.
It's MMO for reason.
if u want to play skill game go play DOTA or Overwatch lmao
HIC is good because it completely broken and overpowered but at same time difficult for smaller side to use because it slow and expensive so easy for us to blob. this is good balance mechanic.
I love how this comes from some dumbass in a noob corp that dont have the guts to post with his main
i love how we use hics to trap overconfident caps from those all powerful large groups... and will continue to do so after this change
BLOPS Hauler
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
189
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Posted - 2017.02.24 14:09:03 -
[230] - Quote
A bit overdone, CCP. A range between 20km and what it is now would make more sense.. Otherwise you're buffing kitey nonsense even more. |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3814
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Posted - 2017.02.24 14:50:21 -
[231] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:A bit overdone, CCP. A range between 20km and what it is now would make more sense.. Otherwise you're buffing kitey nonsense even more.
Ooor
You could just use something like an arazu. You know a dedicated ship that from conception is for long range warp disruption/scram and damps. Rather than keeping this incredibly powerful effect on what is already an incredibly powerful ship
BLOPS Hauler
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Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
27
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Posted - 2017.02.24 15:21:50 -
[232] - Quote
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:A bit overdone, CCP. A range between 20km and what it is now would make more sense.. Otherwise you're buffing kitey nonsense even more.
Learn how to be a good FC and Kitey nonsense turns into dead nonsense. |
Bronopoly Crushingit
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
2
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Posted - 2017.02.24 15:35:18 -
[233] - Quote
Lucian James wrote:Lucian James wrote:I was just told:
This was, apparently, requested by Mr Hyde of CSM and Youtube fame
So you are making a game-wide huge nerf for one whiny caster and CSM rep?
How terrible are you people. This is the same My Hyde that uses his CSM meeting time to talk **** on alliances and other people. He's quitting Eve in 6 months anyway, taking the bar and becoming a lawyer... why should we bother listening to someone like this? I would really like CCP Larrkin to explain that.
Sounds like a fantastic use of Larrikin's time. You should probably be CCP's COO. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3818
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Posted - 2017.02.24 15:47:40 -
[234] - Quote
Bronopoly Crushingit wrote:Lucian James wrote:Lucian James wrote:I was just told:
This was, apparently, requested by Mr Hyde of CSM and Youtube fame
So you are making a game-wide huge nerf for one whiny caster and CSM rep?
How terrible are you people. This is the same My Hyde that uses his CSM meeting time to talk **** on alliances and other people. He's quitting Eve in 6 months anyway, taking the bar and becoming a lawyer... why should we bother listening to someone like this? I would really like CCP Larrkin to explain that. Sounds like a fantastic use of Larrikin's time. You should probably be CCP's COO.
You guys do know plenty of people have been requesting this nerf since the addition of a scram effect was announced right? It wasn't just one guy
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
896
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Posted - 2017.02.24 15:49:08 -
[235] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:Nice edit ! So to quote myself: Lucy Callagan wrote:I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing.
RIP me, I'm dying
This may be the greatest metaphor I've ever seen. Or at least the greatest one I've seen this month.
Seriously though, everyone saying this is gonna make HICs useless clearly only uses them for super-scrams, probably in HS or LS small gangs, and doesn't want to fit up a Lachesis with a fraction of the tank to get long range scrams. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3818
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Posted - 2017.02.24 15:56:05 -
[236] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Lucy Callagan wrote:Nice edit ! So to quote myself: Lucy Callagan wrote:I like how the people complaining about this pretty much have as much knowledge about small gang as a Malian Camel breeder about sailing. RIP me, I'm dying This may be the greatest metaphor I've ever seen. Or at least the greatest one I've seen this month. Seriously though, everyone saying this is gonna make HICs useless clearly only uses them for super-scrams, probably in HS or LS small gangs, and doesn't want to fit up a Lachesis with a fraction of the tank to get long range scrams.
and it seems they totally forgot that hics haven't been able to do this for very long and small gangs were not dead before the scram was added
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
896
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Posted - 2017.02.24 16:04:08 -
[237] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:and it seems they totally forgot that hics haven't been able to do this for very long and small gangs were not dead before the scram was added
Yeah, at this point I think my brain just processes "This is totally going to completely and utterly kill _________" as "This is going to mildly inconvenience me personally and impact my playstyle in a slightly negative way and I am therefore vehemently against this change, regardless of its reasonableness or utility to the game as a whole." |
The Sinister
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
104
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Posted - 2017.02.24 16:50:00 -
[238] - Quote
No one will ever Fly HICtors again for PVP LOL, Now the only use for HICtors is rolling WH.
Good Going CCP... FAIL some more and EVE will die sooner! |
Primus Vaganza
Urkrathos Corp LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 16:51:10 -
[239] - Quote
As always, CCP never disappoints us.
Why not screw up something that works and then fubar it so they can fix it again ?
Lets drink some coffee and imagine how we can fix the fixes that `ll fix what we fubarred fixing it.
You guys going to fix the long range heavy fighters too so they can be used as intended at 200 km ?
We need to start getting WOW accounts and start Minecrafting ? Play LEGOS ?
Nice going CCP, keep working on how we ll never have the 60 k players back online !
WOOOOOOOOOT !!!!!! |
Lug Muad'Dib
Wise Humans Sword
53
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Posted - 2017.02.24 16:54:17 -
[240] - Quote
Very good new! Was obviously so imbalanced.. |
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