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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Redblazer696
Scumbag Logistics INC PTY LTD The Bastion
4
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:28:18 -
[241] - Quote
Cant everyone see this is CCP F(_)CKStick Fozzie's great attempt at killing the excavator market because all you guys are gonna cry your tears and firesale your AFK Autism drones affectivly crashing the market so their no longer worth anything just to have in a few months CCP F(_)CKStick think its about time they buff the Rorqs again.
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MajkStone
30plus Fidelas Constans
17
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:34:58 -
[242] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Excavator Drones: We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy. I know it never feels good when things get nerfed but we're very confident that the Rorqual will continue to be an extremely powerful mining ship after these changes (not to mention the value provided by its other functions such as foreman links and defenses). We plan on continuing to make changes in this area as necessary over the coming months with the goal of keeping the mineral market healthy and ensuring that a wide variety of mining ships are viable. [list] Speed up the cycle time of 'Excavator' ore mining drones to 60 seconds, and reduce the yield per cycle to 110 m3 base. This will reduce the idealized yield per minute, increase the number of trips required to and from the asteroid, but also reduce the amount of wasted cycle at the end of an asteroid's life.
If you are going to nerf the yield you need to reduce the cycle time on the Industry core to compensate.
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Brescal
Therapy. Circle-Of-Two
3
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:36:34 -
[243] - Quote
bye bye AFK drone mining :D i love these tears |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
437
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:42:24 -
[244] - Quote
An interesting solution to PANIC mode being used as an invulnerable Cyno, entosis, and tackle platform... consistent with your policy regarding POS garrage doors and invulnerability on Cyno and tackle generation.
But like others have said: it means outside of being in an asteroid field, a Rorqual willl be extra vulnerable when moving between locations. This is mainly an issue if you are dealing with gate to gate movement. so outside of cynoing to another system or warping to a bookmark, the pilot will need to be extra careful.
I suppose the other option was to simply prevent a Rorqual from being able to activate a Cyno or warp scram/disrupt while PANIC mode is active.... given either option: requiring a target lock on a asteroid seems the most reasonable way to deal with the issue without complicating the code to something obscene or making Rorquals in PANIC mode incapable of calling in support.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
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Captain Pierce
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:48:07 -
[245] - Quote
Why Not Bring back the Old Triage Carrier Solution Just increase The Cap Use of Ewar Module while in Panic about a Few Thousend Percent then the Tackle will breack after 2-3 Cycles
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Lord Nighthawk
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
2
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:50:33 -
[246] - Quote
agree with the Panic change sort of. it shouldn't be an invulnerable capital tackler.. but requiring it to have roid locked is pathetic.
Excavator drones.. smaller reduction.. something like 130/m3-60s.. that's 11.4% Then keep an eye on things. Unless you want to post data to support your OVER nerfing once again..
2 Orca boosted maxed hulks(with implants) is approx. 1/7 the risk and 85%+ish the yield.. better risk vs reward ratio and they aren't stuck there
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Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
19
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:54:45 -
[247] - Quote
Lord Nighthawk wrote:agree with the Panic change sort of. it shouldn't be an invulnerable capital tackler.. but requiring it to have roid locked is pathetic.
Excavator drones.. smaller reduction.. something like 130/m3-60s.. that's 11.4% Then keep an eye on things. Unless you want to post data to support your OVER nerfing once again..
2 Orca boosted maxed hulks(with implants) is approx. 1/7 the risk and 85%+ish the yield.. better risk vs reward ratio and they aren't stuck there
I have no problems with this. you can always nerf it more, later, but the mineral market is gonna keep deteriorating until the minerals get rebalanced. |
Raindeth
FACTION Inc.
20
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Posted - 2017.02.23 23:59:59 -
[248] - Quote
Trying to fix the mineral market is a good idea. Nerfing rorquals (again) is probably not the smartest way of doing so. Why?
1. By nerfing the yield, you accomplish one of two things. Either rorqual miners will decide it is no longer worth the time and risk, and therefore do significantly less mining, or they will simply spend more time mining what they need. If the former happens, you have a bunch of pissed off players who have spent significant ISK and SP to now watch their rorqual rot in a station. If the latter happens, you have not fixed the market.
2. By the time you nerf rorquals enough to fix the market, rorqual pilots will be left with something that if you had announced what it settles on being in the initial roll-out of turning the rorqual into a mining ship, everyone looking at it would tell you to go get "fooled with."
3. To fix the mineral market, you need to do a couple things. First, there is still an unlimited supply of ore. Why? Increase spawned belts and eliminate or greatly reduce ore in static belts. And more importantly, INCREASE DEMAND. You have not only increased rorqual mining yields, but with the citadel changes to reprocessing, a lot more minerals can be squeezed out of ore these days (up to 87.5% refine). Of course, mineral prices are gonna crash. You can start by removing basic ammo from all NPC loot tables. That has the added benefit of giving new industrialists a chance to make something that can be profitable.
I'm sure there are other ways to increase demand for minerals. I hope you think carefully in this direction before nerfing rorquals again. Oh! and as for requiring PANIC to require having an asteroid targeted: this is the kind of idea I'd expect from our new president. It opens up a mess in so many ways. "OK, what do I need to target to activate THIS module?" Just don't even start down that road. |
MajkStone
30plus Fidelas Constans
18
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:00:07 -
[249] - Quote
Archeos wrote:PANIC module can only be activated by having a lock on an asteroid ?
What if i just finished an asteroid and still have a cycle on my inustrial core and get dropped ? What if i get dropped while travelling from one asteroid to another ? And the gang dropping on me has a falcon that ECM's me ?
This is an absolutely idiotic solution. Can't you just make it so that the panic button breaks all target locks, and you can only activate panic when you have the industrial core running. And futhermore make fitting or running the industrial core disable the use of any ewar modules on the rorqual.
As for the nerf of excavator drones - ARE YOU KIDDING ME ? A set of excavators costs 7 Billion + 2.7 for the rorq + fittings, that makes the rorqual a 12 billion ship, that barely makes nearly the same income than a carrier (ratting ticks+ ESS lp + loot) at SIX TIMES THE COST OF A CARRIER !!! I just spent a LOT of money to fit my rorq, and now you want me to go back to carrier ratting ??
I understand that the mineral market is not healthy right now, but there must be better solutions. Such as finding a sinkhole for the excess minerals like tritanium and pyrite. Just increase the ammounts of those minerals needed to build ships and structures, and the market will get healthy pretty quickly again.
If you want to close the gap between the rorq and an a exhumer just buff the exhumers, but leave the rorq alone.
CCP FOZZIE don't mess this game again.
Exactly.
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nm Kain
Cuddly Seals DRONE WALKERS
19
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:05:18 -
[250] - Quote
The Rorqual changes are awful. I might not have the numbers correct, but without skills of any kind, the mining yield is 400m3 per drone and with the changes it will be 110m3 which is like a 70% nerf on top of the 30% to mining yield a month or 2 ago. It's rediculous. I won't go into it too much but I am seriously looking at different games to play, as I have had my fill of CCP bad choices. |
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feelthelove
Nocturnal Tumescence Fidelas Constans
3
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:06:34 -
[251] - Quote
Congrats fozzie it has only taken me 5 years to become even a little interested in mining, you have now killed that interest so thoroughly I will probably never consider mining again. |
Hopeless Slave
503rd East Cost Mining Brigade
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:07:16 -
[252] - Quote
just have to say...glad this post came out today... was going to resub another account and skill inject to a rorq... guess not..
Panic has needs to be allowed without indi core running or target locked.... its original purpose has saved my rorq and barges when I finished a belt and was trying to warp squad to another belt and got bubbled and attacked by a 30 man gang that came from a wormhole, I lit cyno and help arrived. fleet saved me.. your current theory of its fix would have been the loss of the whole mining fleet. for a fleet form and jump 9 jumps would take to long with out panic and a cyno. changes to the running of warp scrams & webs should be removed when in panic. problem solved.
as for the drone changes. November dev post. ""By themselves a set of GÇÿExcavatorGÇÖ Superdrones make the Rorqual the most powerful mining ship in the game, and when boosted by an active Industrial Core module they each individually gain the yield of an Exhumer"". forum response, the 15th post down: "...[i]The optimal setup isn't going to be rorq + fleet, it's going to be a gigantic fleet of rorqs ... so with this being the 2nd major nerf in 4 months, you went from look how great this is- capital mining to .. mining look at my 12 billion isk venture it was completely know what was going to happen. mining amounts should stay the same at this time.
need to look at this from a different angle the only reason for drop in price is demand. to solve this i believe you should: (1) fix the mineral comp of null anomalies to eliminate the bottle neck as state before. mex is a major bottleneck. (2) to increase demand for mins you could remove the other bottle neck of limited manufacturing jobs. change skills to allow for 30 jobs and the mins would be used faster to meet supply
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MajkStone
30plus Fidelas Constans
18
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:08:36 -
[253] - Quote
Why don't you consider reducing the amount of yield that the Ore asteroid itself drops (refining), instead of nerfing the extremely expensive and risky to fly capital ship.
If you nerf the roids across the board it will accomplish the goal of lowering the mineral supply while not pissing off every single rorqual pilot, while maintaining balance among the mining ships. |
Side1Bu2Rnz9
Trojan Legion Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:09:49 -
[254] - Quote
nm Kain wrote:The Rorqual changes are awful. I might not have the numbers correct, but without skills of any kind, the mining yield is 400m3 per drone and with the changes it will be 110m3 which is like a 70% nerf on top of the 30% to mining yield a month or 2 ago. It's rediculous. I won't go into it too much but I am seriously looking at different games to play, as I have had my fill of CCP bad choices.
You're numbers a completely off... check in game or check anything at all...
Current escavator drones collect 220 m3 every 90 seconds. After March patch the escavator drones collect 110m3 every 60 seconds. Without calculating travel time into the equation that's only about a 25% nerf. Counting travel time and knowing that drones will travel more due to the reduced cycle times... nerf is slightly more and more dependent on distance from roid. |
Falcon Starwalker
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:14:32 -
[255] - Quote
CCP yet again has no idea what balance is. They buff T2 mining drones to be 1/3 as good as excavators and cost 1100x's less.
They don't realize that the market is crashing not due to the influx of minerals, but rather from an imbalance in the ores.
If this doesn't make sense to you, than think of it like this...
Let us assume that the overall avg of all T1 ships in the game take the following minerals - (using small numbers to make this easier to understand)
Trit: 1100 Pyrite: 900 Mex: 500 Iso: 200 Nox: 50 Zyd: 10 Mega: 1
Now lets assume the basic avg of all ore sites to be - (using absurdly small numbers to make this easier to understand)
Trit: 15000 Pyrite: 10000 Mex: 5000 Iso: 1000 Nox: 500 Zyd: 50 Mega: 3
Yes I know those are not the right numbers, but it shows the basic idea here. Which is that with high ends like Zydrine and Megacyte being seriously low in avg availability and minerals like Trit and Pyerite being vastly over produced, no matter what they do you will see the market fall on those minerals that are found in abundance.
The only reason this is being seen so drastically right now is the rate at which the market is being supplied has increased, with production only just starting to increase to match it. With null ore anoms requiring you to mine the entire site for a respawn (even after DT) then there will be a continued influx of unwanted minerals, so that the wanted minerals (Mega/Zydrine/Nocx) can then be mined to fill the needs of the market.
There are only 2 ways to fix this. Either having ore anoms hold huge quantities (IE: like old ICE belts) or a complete rebalance of the ores contained in the current anoms to more accurately fill the needs of industry while not over producing the low ends to such a degree that they become a waste product of mining.
The issue should not be how much in total is mined, as that balances itself out over time, but that there is a more even distribution of minerals based on avg build costs. You can still make low ends have slightly more and bottleneck the high ends a bit, but in doing so, you have to still maintain a certain level of balance or the need for high ends will eventually make low ends worthless. |
nm Kain
Cuddly Seals DRONE WALKERS
19
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:16:54 -
[256] - Quote
Side1Bu2Rnz9 wrote:nm Kain wrote:The Rorqual changes are awful. I might not have the numbers correct, but without skills of any kind, the mining yield is 400m3 per drone and with the changes it will be 110m3 which is like a 70% nerf on top of the 30% to mining yield a month or 2 ago. It's rediculous. I won't go into it too much but I am seriously looking at different games to play, as I have had my fill of CCP bad choices. You're numbers a completely off... check in game or check anything at all... Current escavator drones collect 220 m3 every 90 seconds. After March patch the escavator drones collect 110m3 every 60 seconds. Without calculating travel time into the equation that's only about a 25% nerf. Counting travel time and knowing that drones will travel more due to the reduced cycle times... nerf is slightly more and more dependent on distance from roid.
Thanks for clearing that up. It's still overall a 55% nerf in the last 2 months which is obsurd. 30% from the first nerf and now a 25% on this nerf. If you are static on a large roid like Spud, you can churn around 300m an hour. Now.. Take 25% off and you get only 225m3, 75,000,000 m3 less. It's totally rediculous. I'm off to sell my drones and Rorqual.
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paintballlawss Padecain
Grass Fed Cannibals Cohortes Triarii
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:18:57 -
[257] - Quote
You want to know my feedback you say? Well here it is you are basically killing indy again and again you give them buffs and six months down the road you nerf the **** out of the buffs and nerf 20 other things on top of that to make it even worse for people. No one who does mining will use a rorq as the amount you are mining is much cheaper to obtain buy having 3 alts in hulks that cost 20 times less than the rorq. Why instead of nerfing indy **** again you nerf mega coalitions and fix sov again or just fix the other 10,000 problems in the game but nerfing the rorq again will just make it not used these changes are completely outrageous and you guys seriously need to look at who your making these changes for are you making them for MEGA COALITIONS or are you nerfing them for small alliances because as it stands NO small alliance will use a rorq because its not worth it anymore. You have effectively taken away all defenses for the ship(ie. bubbles, PANIC, and its damage is not strong enough to defend its). So if you really want to change things instead of talking to alliances that run half of eve you should talk to smaller alliances and corporations because all your doing is making MEGA coalitions even stronger by forcing them to join 1 out of 3 Coalitions in the game just to protect themselves. Please talk to the the other half of eve and not just the people that can afford 500 rorqs in there region because they own half of eve.
[END OF RANT] #whymineanymore #priceofrorqsgoingdownthedrain |
Julia Shipping
Julia Shipping Ltd.
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:28:19 -
[258] - Quote
I won't touch the PANIC change, that module was just toxic. Maybe not the best changes, but something was needed.
Rorqual changes? Well, I'm mining on a single toon, I don't have 20 chars stripping a belt in 2 hours flat. I love the rorqual, allows me to mine quick enough that I can compete for capital / freighter builds. I get about 135M per hour with positioning and flight time and all. I'm sure you can do more, but most of the numbers thrown around are e-peen measuring. Sure there can be spikes, much like ratting and incursions.
It comes down to the ROI. 9 bils to fit a Rorqual for a 90 hour ROI? WTF? I'm making better money subbing 3 hulks and a purpoise. Fix the cost of the damn thing and maybe you won't get as much push back when you slash the promised income by the obvious nerf (m3) and the implied nerfs (more flight time with the shorter duration).
To be honest, if you don't get the price of the excavators under control, I'll mine with T2, it'll be more economical to have throwaway rorquals then having excavators. Give the drones some trashloot, not just the faction drones. There's not enough volume to prevent market f#$@^#!@## on the market. Any marketer with deep enough pocket can just buy off one of the part and raise the prices to silly amounts.
Last thing, screw the precious mineral prices. This is a free market and you've convinced all the bored multi-boxers to actually do something. There's probably more dead Rorquals in a week then super and titans in a year. You said you were going to make it worth for us to put them in belt. Congrats, you did it. Now it's crashing the market? Well, let the offer regulate itself. Or make changes to absorb the surplus, you've got structures that require massive amounts of parts, yet the holdup is always PI, never the minerals.
Stop trying to save your market, let the mineral drag the prices down and sort out your ISK input.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3862
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:47:29 -
[259] - Quote
nm Kain wrote: Thanks for clearing that up. It's still overall a 55% nerf in the last 2 months which is obsurd. 30% from the first nerf and now a 25% on this nerf. If you are static on a large roid like Spud, you can churn around 300m an hour. Now.. Take 25% off and you get only 225m3, 75,000,000 m3 less. It's totally rediculous. I'm off to sell my drones and Rorqual.
The first 'nerf' was because of a maths error somewhere in the Dev department, which resulted in Rorquals mining far more than they had announced & intended. So should be treated as a bug fix, not a nerf, since there was an unannounced buff to the initial stats of Rorquals which was then exactly cancelled. |
Trevize Demerzel
71
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:48:31 -
[260] - Quote
Grats CCP.. You just killed the ROI on the Rorq.
The anger I feel towards politics in the US.... I now feel for CCP.
Is that the position you want to be in CCP? That level of hatred? Well grats.
CCP you own it.
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Nove Nuke
Pwn 'N Play Rate My Ticks
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 00:59:49 -
[261] - Quote
RIP thanks for Killing my Rorqual this is wrong to steal 14 Billion ISK of my hard earned ISK. and 10 years in the game. one word says it all.... NUTS |
Namii Chikyuu
Totally Into Spaceships Circle-Of-Two
1
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Posted - 2017.02.24 01:02:07 -
[262] - Quote
I know my opinion won't matter much and although it's already been beat to death this was the worst way to fix panic module warfare possible. But on another note how about all the harping about risk versus reward that constantly beat to death when talking about carrier ratting etc, now you've effectively cut the excavator drones output in half over the last nerf and this nerf. how about you cut the industrial core duration in half to balance out the whole risk/reward calculation. I mean it seems you are turning the rorq from an independent miner to a pure boosting/utilitarian platform. Or make the excavators dirt cheap right now a single drone can cost as much as building a rorquel. I could accept a cost of around 2 exhumers per drone as a norm myself. Right now the rorqual is a great content generator for defensive fleets but how many of them are going to be left on the field when it's inefficient to fly them versus the multi-box fleets we all use to run? |
xenoace
rock shot industries DRONE WALKERS
0
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Posted - 2017.02.24 01:04:20 -
[263] - Quote
leave the rorquals alone for gods sake |
Mason Odell
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers Top Tier
2
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:01:15 -
[264] - Quote
So many other ways to approach this change then straight out nerfing stuff into the ground.
- Make Battleships Viable Again
- Encourage more huge fights and objective taking
- Change other aspects of mining rather then making it pointless again
- Introduce new structures that require lots of minerals that provide good bonuses to those who can make them, rather then another station to dock and ship spin in
Just stop making people want to quit your game |
Ltcartial
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:02:35 -
[265] - Quote
1. Rorq's right now can mine about 150m/200m isk worth of ore per hour. About the same as a Hel ratting balls out. Those numbers are high considering the rorq has to move alot, drone travel time, time spent out of core, nuet activity and so on.
2. Double nerfing the drones both yield and more trip time back and fourth, So you have 12b worth of a rorq in core mode ready to be jumped on and ganked. 12B would take 60hrs worth of 200m ore isk/hr with having the high risk of losing it. Not good ,,not good at all.
3. The amount mined is also not liquid isk like ratting..you have to turn that ore into things that you usually sell at a lose of total isk worth you mined.
PS: It seems like you are making these changes based on non indy toons, or someone how reads non indy toons thoughts of the rorq and not the actual ppl that use them.
Final thought, Making the main materials for the excavator drones drop mostly in drone region space is complete insanity, drone region space already has higher bounty due to npcs not droping loot, now you give them extra isk for the elite drone AI and drone augments that drop more in drone region space then other space.
All I can say is I will differently be playing other games coming out when these changes take affect as it will not be beatifically for the Risk to award equation. First Nerf already had me not wanting to play, now this will make me shut down all 10 of my accounts until something else in eve is exciting and brings me back but I doubt it. |
Oberon Altair
Lucid Dreamers Rate My Ticks
4
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:05:53 -
[266] - Quote
What's the point of a 10 billion + investment for a ship and even more for a character if you can make the same amount now in a carrier which can be nearly fully insured and 1/5th of the cost or AGAIN NEARLY RUNNING INCURSIONS THE SAFEST THING IN THE ENTIRE GAME.
Stop making changes to things that require people to actually have some risk as a side to their isk making.
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Cade Windstalker
888
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:08:12 -
[267] - Quote
Mason Odell wrote:So many other ways to approach this change then straight out nerfing stuff into the ground.
- Make Battleships Viable Again
- Encourage more huge fights and objective taking
- Change other aspects of mining rather then making it pointless again
- Introduce new structures that require lots of minerals that provide good bonuses to those who can make them, rather then another station to dock and ship spin in
Just stop making people want to quit your game
Translation, please either work on something else or find another change to make to fix my super amazing minerals faucet other than nerfing it... |
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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1639
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:10:13 -
[268] - Quote
Removed post discussing forum moderation.
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Cade Windstalker
888
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:10:36 -
[269] - Quote
zzzbowlcutmcgee zzz wrote:Trevize Demerzel wrote:The very fact you had do to this so soon... shows this nerf is wrong. very wrong. It's almost, almost as if a giant blanket nerf to literally every single aspect of a ship is not appreciated by literally anyone except those who don't use it. Almost. but don't worry ccp will delete the "rants" so they can push the change through and not give a damn as per usual.
Nerfs are very rarely popular with people who use a ship, that doesn't make them bad or unnecessary though.
The fact that the ISDs had to go through and remove at least a full page of posts says that people can't react to things and make their views clear in a calm, rational, and respectful manner. Let alone present a rational and well supported argument in support of their views. |
zzzbowlcutmcgee zzz
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2017.02.24 02:10:51 -
[270] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Mason Odell wrote:So many other ways to approach this change then straight out nerfing stuff into the ground.
- Make Battleships Viable Again
- Encourage more huge fights and objective taking
- Change other aspects of mining rather then making it pointless again
- Introduce new structures that require lots of minerals that provide good bonuses to those who can make them, rather then another station to dock and ship spin in
Just stop making people want to quit your game Translation, please either work on something else or find another change to make to fix my super amazing minerals faucet other than nerfing it...
Translation: treat indy ships like EVERY OTHER SHIP IN THE GAME when nerfs happen. Imagine if t3 ships all got a 30% ehp reduction, 30% dps reduction, no more instawarp, no more covert ops config, AND more mass for "wormhole balance"
The same people who have their heads up their asses would be crying enough salt to supply every mcdonalds in the world.
And that's NORMAL. "blanket nerfs" where you hit literally every aspect of a ship in terms of its mainuse + survivability, people have issues with it. Because it's ********. |
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