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The Larold
Living in Silicon Valley Is Too Expensive
76
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Posted - 2017.02.25 16:35:24 -
[1] - Quote
TL;DR: Which L4 missions offer the best opportunity to sit mostly idle safely for 30-90 seconds after each and every ship kill?
The long version:
I always get most L4 missions mixed up in my head, even when reviewing Eve Survival.
I am going to be doing some intense stats-gathering on L4 mission rats, loot, and salvage. (Specific stats I haven't ever been able to find on the web before.)
As such, I need to kill a ship, then either alt-tab out, or write stuff down for a little bit in between EVERY ship kill. I'll be in a Marauder / bastion for tank. I'll manager triggers carefully, and keep an eye out for gankers.
Which missions would be best for this kind of thing? Thanks!
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5775
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Posted - 2017.02.25 17:45:04 -
[2] - Quote
Define "safely"... Provided you can tank the entire DPS for any given room, it really doesn't matter how many triggers you hit or how much aggro you draw. Just make sure you have more tank than gank and make yout fit cap stable in case you get preoccupied. Without really knowing which stats or mission parameters you're after it would be hard to suggest a mission. I would start with eve-survival.org to get an idea of how mich DPS you need to potentially tank beforehand, though.
The answer to your quest is 1000 DPS. That's what you can realistically expect to average out amongst all missions once you've run a few thousand of them. It doesn't matter which ship, which weapon system, configuration or how much bling - 1000 applied DPS for L4s in high-sec is what it works out to.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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stoicfaux
6270
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Posted - 2017.02.25 18:50:05 -
[3] - Quote
It's been awhile but * IIRC, cargo scanners can tell you what is in an NPC (everything is doubled). I think it works on NPC wrecks/cans as well. * EVE's LogServer can track everything you do, but is a pain for various reasons (you need to trim down what is logged, then you still create a hug log that takes forever to load into excel,) * No idea about the new EVE LogLite tool. * You'll still need to salvage in order to get salvage metrics. * Don't forget about screenshots especially in conjunction with ship/cargo scanners. * Getting a dev drunk and getting the loot/salvage tables is also an option?
Side note: given that multiple NPCs of the same type tend to spawn together, you just need to kill/salvage everything of type X and then record your metrics in batches.
Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 19:50:29 -
[4] - Quote
I haven't run across an L4 mission yet that I can't tank in my passive Rattlesnake, even with full room aggro. As Arthur noted, the magic number seems to be about 1000 DPS omni-tank. I think a Marauder with Bastion should be more than sufficient to provide a high degree of safety in any L4 mission regardless of how many triggers you trip and regardless how long you sit idle soaking up the damage. |
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
225
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Posted - 2017.02.25 20:44:29 -
[5] - Quote
"I haven't run across an L4 mission yet that I can't tank in my passive Rattlesnake, even with full room aggro. As Arthur noted, the magic number seems to be about 1000 DPS omni-tank. I think a Marauder with Bastion should be more than sufficient to provide a high degree of safety in any L4 mission regardless of how many triggers you trip and regardless how long you sit idle soaking up the damage."
This include the bonus room in Evolution? I find if you can survive this room, every other mission/room is doable. I think they may have nerfed the damage/AI for it in the last year, but still the toughest room I've found short of some of the Epic Arcs.
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
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Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
23
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:22:06 -
[6] - Quote
Buoytender Bob wrote:"I haven't run across an L4 mission yet that I can't tank in my passive Rattlesnake, even with full room aggro. As Arthur noted, the magic number seems to be about 1000 DPS omni-tank. I think a Marauder with Bastion should be more than sufficient to provide a high degree of safety in any L4 mission regardless of how many triggers you trip and regardless how long you sit idle soaking up the damage."
This include the bonus room in Evolution? I find if you can survive this room, every other mission/room is doable. I think they may have nerfed the damage/AI for it in the last year, but still the toughest room I've found short of some of the Epic Arcs.
I've actually never gotten this mission, but I'd love to try. This is the same Rattlesnake fit that I solo C3 sleeper sites with, so I THINK the tank would hold, but I'm not certain. It's actually a cap stable active tank, so I can push the tank up to about 1350 DPS omni or fit appropriate hardeners if needed. I can't find any mention of total incoming DPS for that mission, so it's hard to say without doing it. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59543
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Posted - 2017.02.26 06:29:23 -
[7] - Quote
This sorta reminds me of when I was creating and or editing exploration site pages for Evelopedia and Epic Arc pages for Eve Survival. Creating and or editing the pages was started after I ran the content a couple of times before hand. That gave me a pretty good idea of how to approach it.
To start with I used the in-game notepad to record my info and had various 'guide' pages opened for reference with the in-game browser (In-game browser is gone now, play game in windowed mode and use out of game browser). Since I was sorta familiar with the content I would write or copy & paste the info from the 'guide' pages onto the notepad before activating the site / mission. While running the site I'd make the necessary corrections and update the notepad asap. The reason for using the in-game notepad is so you can still see what's happening on screen and if needed all the info will stay available in the notepad for future game session.
The trick for having time to up date the notepad while running the site is don't clear out all of the NPC's in each specific spawn. Keep a single Frigate or the spawn trigger active and just tank it while writing down info onto the in-game notepad. For amount and type of NPC's in each current wave or spawn, I'd use the Overview to count each hull class size by removing all the others with right click / remove ship or wreck type from Overview. I did that for each hull class size. Then I'd reset the Overview back to normal and continue on with the site.
That's pretty much it. Hope this info helps and good luck to you.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Wolfgang Jannesen
The Evesploratory Society
74
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Posted - 2017.02.26 15:06:38 -
[8] - Quote
EDIT, didn't read OP's post very thoroughly the first time. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1184
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Posted - 2017.02.26 15:18:29 -
[9] - Quote
Cap stability seems to be indicated here more than DPS, just a thought. If you can tank it and you are cap stable you can sit there literally for hours to write whatever you want to write.
They are not a popular option but NOS can be an side here, simply find an NPC that likes to stay close and use them to aid your cap. |
The Larold
Living in Silicon Valley Is Too Expensive
77
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Posted - 2017.02.26 17:42:32 -
[10] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:This sorta reminds me of when I was creating and or editing exploration site pages for Evelopedia and Epic Arc pages for Eve Survival. Creating and or editing the pages was started after I ran the content a couple of times before hand. That gave me a pretty good idea of how to approach it.
To start with I used the in-game notepad to record my info and had various 'guide' pages opened for reference with the in-game browser (In-game browser is gone now, play game in windowed mode and use out of game browser). Since I was sorta familiar with the content I would write or copy & paste the info from the 'guide' pages onto the notepad before activating the site / mission. While running the site I'd make the necessary corrections and update the notepad asap. The reason for using the in-game notepad is so you can still see what's happening on screen and if needed all the info will stay available in the notepad for future game session.
The trick for having time to up date the notepad while running the site is don't clear out all of the NPC's in each specific spawn. Keep a single Frigate or the spawn trigger active and just tank it while writing down info onto the in-game notepad. For amount and type of NPC's in each current wave or spawn, I'd use the Overview to count each hull class size by removing all the others with right click / remove ship or wreck type from Overview. I did that for each hull class size. Then I'd reset the Overview back to normal and continue on with the site.
That's pretty much it. Hope this info helps and good luck to you.
DMC
This is outstanding advice. Didn't even think about overview. I'm going to take this approach. Thanks much!
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59548
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Posted - 2017.02.26 18:07:20 -
[11] - Quote
The Larold wrote:This is outstanding advice. Didn't even think about overview. I'm going to take this approach. Thanks much!
Glad to hear that. Another tactic I forgot to mention is to use Covert Cloak for when you first warp into the site. I would warp in to 100km range, sit there cloaked and list the amount of ships, hull type and their range from the warp in beacon. This tactic is especially useful for listing a large group of NPC's or multiple groups of NPC's present on the initial warp in.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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The Larold
Living in Silicon Valley Is Too Expensive
78
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Posted - 2017.02.26 18:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:The Larold wrote:This is outstanding advice. Didn't even think about overview. I'm going to take this approach. Thanks much!
Glad to hear that. Another tactic I forgot to mention is to use Covert Cloak for when you first warp into the site. I would warp in to 100km range, sit there cloaked and list the amount of ships, hull type and their range from the warp in beacon. This tactic is especially useful for listing a large group of NPC's or multiple groups of NPC's present on the initial warp in. DMC
So what I'm going to be doing is ultimately getting myself past my OCD clear-every-single wreck compulsion. Sometimes I'm in isk-making mode, so I use the Blitzing Guide google doc that really helps. But other times I just want to kill stuff and make decent money doing it.
So I ask myself, "How much am I giving up in loot and salvage if I ignore everything but BS wrecks?", or "How much am I giving up if I ignore all small wrecks." Stuff like that. I'm going to be very pragmatic, which means tracking which items and salvage come from each wreck. I'll pick some method to establish market value for the loot, and then start grouping it mainly by wreck size, but I also want to break down other statistics. Like, averaged out across 100 small wrecks, 100 medium, and 100 large, what's the ratio look like. How does it vary among the various pirate NPC types. Etc. etc.
I need to educate myself on any logging available that captures this kind of info. If I have to, I can write code to parse massive amounts of raw output. But I have a hunch loot and salvage are not tracked / logged.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5802
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Posted - 2017.02.26 20:25:52 -
[13] - Quote
You're not giving up very much by skipping most wrecks. There are only six missions really worth salvaging: Gone Beserk, Damsel, Informant, Rogue Drone, Zazzmatazz and the Enemy series (or Empire-equivalent).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2604
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Posted - 2017.02.26 22:09:48 -
[14] - Quote
I think any marauder will be up to the task, for pretty much any mission. dps won't be a huge concern as you are killing slowly on purpose, so it should be easy to throw some extra cap mods and run a permatank. x-type armor reps are under 100m so it should be easy to get a paladin to omnitank 1700+ dps, I imagine the kronos should be similar. Or go golem/varugr and throw either a pith x-type large (under 100m) or gist c-type xl, which are at about 300m, if you minimize bling on the rest of the ship it shouldn't be too gank baity.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
226
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Posted - 2017.02.26 22:36:53 -
[15] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:You're not giving up very much by skipping most wrecks. There are only six missions really worth salvaging: Gone Beserk, Damsel, Informant, Rogue Drone, Zazzmatazz and the Enemy series (or Empire-equivalent).
Would you put Dread Pirate in there or do you just kill Scarlet in the second room and leave?
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5809
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Posted - 2017.02.27 01:49:36 -
[16] - Quote
Buoytender Bob wrote:Would you put Dread Pirate in there or do you just kill Scarlet in the second room and leave? Yes - kill Scarlet, tractor the implant and leave.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
34
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Posted - 2017.02.27 11:49:13 -
[17] - Quote
now what kind of information are you planning to gather? because this has anything you can ever want to know about rats in a mission. |
The Larold
Living in Silicon Valley Is Too Expensive
79
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Posted - 2017.02.27 14:11:49 -
[18] - Quote
Rei Y wrote:now what kind of information are you planning to gather? because this has anything you can ever want to know about rats in a mission.
While I agree this is a great site, the two pieces of information I'm gathering are exactly what it doesn't have - loot drop samples / averages, and salvage drop samples / averages.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5832
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Posted - 2017.02.27 21:18:15 -
[19] - Quote
The Larold wrote:While I agree this is a great site, the two pieces of information I'm gathering are exactly what it doesn't have - loot drop samples / averages, and salvage drop samples / averages. 1. Averages are all over the place, but generally outside of those missions listed - suck. 2. Salvaging sucks. 1-2 million ISK in components hardly justifies the time/effort.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
178
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Posted - 2017.03.07 10:19:26 -
[20] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:It's been awhile but * IIRC, cargo scanners can tell you what is in an NPC (everything is doubled). I think it works on NPC wrecks/cans as well. * EVE's LogServer can track everything you do, but is a pain for various reasons (you need to trim down what is logged, then you still create a hug log that takes forever to load into excel,) * No idea about the new EVE LogLite tool. * You'll still need to salvage in order to get salvage metrics. * Don't forget about screenshots especially in conjunction with ship/cargo scanners. * Getting a dev drunk and getting the loot/salvage tables is also an option? Side note: given that multiple NPCs of the same type tend to spawn together, you just need to kill/salvage everything of type X and then record your metrics in batches.
First line is wrong. Cargo scanner tells you the tag, faction ammo, deadspace modules and overseer's effects you get from an NPC. The random junk and random faction loot chance (from commanders) gets added in when the NPC gets killed which you don't get to know about until the NPC is a wreck. So only cargo scanning wrecks will get you what you're looking for. All i ever got from cargo scanning regular NPCs was metal scraps. |
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1189
|
Posted - 2017.03.07 14:21:50 -
[21] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:The Larold wrote:While I agree this is a great site, the two pieces of information I'm gathering are exactly what it doesn't have - loot drop samples / averages, and salvage drop samples / averages. 1. Averages are all over the place, but generally outside of those missions listed - suck. 2. Salvaging also generally sucks.
#1 - actually there is a very high degree of consistency in loot drops based on the mission, NPC, ship class and the position within the NPC fleet / group. But then you would need to spend time collecting and analyzing the data to know this, and given your drive to maximize your ISK / LP as evidenced by your previous posts here and by #2 above I doubt you have the patience or that you would be willing to dedicate the time needed to work this out.
#2 - this is nothing but your personal opinion, even though it is shared by many does not change that fact. The old adage of one man's junk is another man's treasure certainly applies here. To some it is not WHAT you get that matters it is simply the process of obtaining it. I have corp mates that hate to shoot things but find great enjoyment in being the janitorial staff of EvE, they are quite content simply running around and cleaning up the useless stuff people like you leave behind.
Point of view and how long one has been in the game also plays a role here. New / newer players can easily make more cleaning up a single level 4 mission than they could make in a week or more running level 1 and 2 missions.
And then there is the person and the goals they want to achieve. A friend of mine is a numbers geek, he loves anything to do with numbers and figuring statistical averages etc. He is currently working on several projects in EvE that consume hours of game play time simply collecting numbers so he can analyze them with no real in game benefit to be gained by the efforts. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5906
|
Posted - 2017.03.07 14:37:18 -
[22] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:...actually there is a very high degree of consistency in loot drops based on the mission... Actually, there's not. Run Damsel sometime and tell me what you net for loot (not including the rare implant). It used to average around 10-12m ISK and now it's typically in the 3-5m ISK range (although it can be all over the map).
The vast (vast) majority of mission runners all agree that salvaging sucks as a ROI. It even sucks in a Marauder. I don't even think gankers salvage wrecks on the Jita undock... The only time it sucks less is if you're waiting for mission triggers (ie: Enemy 5/5) and can set a flight of salvage drones to auto-salvage while you wait. If you get 2-2.5m ISK in salvage for a mission you're doing incredibly well. Of course, shooting a few NPC battleships nets you the same reward in a fraction of the time...
So if you want to split hairs and say it's my "personal opinion" when 99.95% of mission runners would probably agree with me, knock yourself out. It doesn't change the fact that as it currently stands, "one man's junk" is still "everyone's junk".
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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The Larold
Living in Silicon Valley Is Too Expensive
80
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:24:42 -
[23] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:The Larold wrote:While I agree this is a great site, the two pieces of information I'm gathering are exactly what it doesn't have - loot drop samples / averages, and salvage drop samples / averages. 1. Averages are all over the place, but generally outside of those missions listed - suck. 2. Salvaging also generally sucks. #1 - actually there is a very high degree of consistency in loot drops based on the mission, NPC, ship class and the position within the NPC fleet / group. But then you would need to spend time collecting and analyzing the data to know this, and given your drive to maximize your ISK / LP as evidenced by your previous posts here and by #2 above I doubt you have the patience or that you would be willing to dedicate the time needed to work this out. #2 - this is nothing but your personal opinion, even though it is shared by many does not change that fact. The old adage of one man's junk is another man's treasure certainly applies here. To some it is not WHAT you get that matters it is simply the process of obtaining it. I have corp mates that hate to shoot things but find great enjoyment in being the janitorial staff of EvE, they are quite content simply running around and cleaning up the useless stuff people like you leave behind. Point of view and how long one has been in the game also plays a role here. New / newer players can easily make more cleaning up a single level 4 mission than they could make in a week or more running level 1 and 2 missions. And then there is the person and the goals they want to achieve. A friend of mine is a numbers geek, he loves anything to do with numbers and figuring statistical averages etc. He is currently working on several projects in EvE that consume hours of game play time simply collecting numbers so he can analyze them with no real in game benefit to be gained by the efforts.
(OP here)
This is an awesome response; a very holistic view of the game and time spent. Very nice response.
In my case, I'm looking for a fun project with numbers combined with a simple piece of knowledge:
When I am done killing stuff, and I've looted / salvaged only the battleship wrecks, I want to have a general percentage in mind of what I'm leaving behind in terms of salvage and loot. Sure - my gut tells me 10%. But who knows, maybe it's occasionally 20%, or 2%, or whatever. The number doesn't matter to me, so much as _knowing_ it does. Plus, I'm going to look at it with LP and mission rewards factored in, so I can compare what's left behind against total rewards.
It's just like you said - it's the *process* for me, not the end result. Most times, I just do mission running to fulfill my OCD of full-clears. Even if it means sitting in a pocket for 5 extra minutes salvaging wrecks. (For fun, I took on full spawn aggro in Rogue Drone Harassment. Killed so fast, MTU + tractor + 2 salvagers couldn't keep up with wrecks.)
Sometimes it's fun just to research Eve in addition to playing it. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59854
|
Posted - 2017.03.07 23:05:30 -
[24] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Donnachadh wrote:...actually there is a very high degree of consistency in loot drops based on the mission... Actually, there's not. Run Damsel sometime and tell me what you net for loot (not including the rare implant). It used to average around 10-12m ISK and now it's typically in the 3-5m ISK range (although it can be all over the map). The vast (vast) majority of mission runners all agree that salvaging sucks as a ROI. It even sucks in a Marauder. I don't even think gankers salvage wrecks on the Jita undock... The only time it sucks less is if you're waiting for mission triggers (ie: Enemy 5/5) and can set a flight of salvage drones to auto-salvage while you wait. If you get 2-2.5m ISK in salvage for a mission you're doing incredibly well. Of course, shooting a few NPC battleships nets you the same reward in a fraction of the time... So if you want to split hairs and say it's my "personal opinion" when 99.95% of mission runners would probably agree with me, knock yourself out. It doesn't change the fact that as it currently stands, "one man's junk" is still "everyone's junk". I did a test a while back and came to the conclusion that in most missions on average only 1/3rd of the wrecks contained loot and out of those loot bearing wrecks 1/3rd of them only contained Metal Scraps. I didn't bother checking salvage because I mainly had Salvage Drones doing that while I collected the loot.
The reason 'Damsel', along with most other missions, don't net as much ISK in loot and salvage as it did before is because CCP is constantly stealth nerfing the drops.
Anyway, despite the loot and salvage from mission wrecks being nerfed into the ground, I still spend the time to do it because I reprocess the majority of loot for minerals and use the salvage to build Rigs. I'm a firm believer in the old motto of waste not, want not.
Also in my opinion new players can still make more ISK looting and salvaging wrecks after completing each mission, mainly because their skills and ship fits aren't up to par to blitz missions like experienced players.
Last but not least, 99.95% of all mission runners may say drops for loot and salvage suck but that doesn't mean they bypass it. And if it does mean that, then I'd like to view the data stating that as a fact.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5942
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Posted - 2017.03.08 12:08:32 -
[25] - Quote
There's nothing wrong with looting or salvaging - it's just not a very efficient way of earning ISK for the most part (there are a few exceptions, but these are becoming increasingly rare). Players used to be able to make a career out of salvaging but those days are kong since past.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 07:58:31 -
[26] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:The Larold wrote:While I agree this is a great site, the two pieces of information I'm gathering are exactly what it doesn't have - loot drop samples / averages, and salvage drop samples / averages. 1. Averages are all over the place, but generally outside of those missions listed - suck. 2. Salvaging also generally sucks. #1 - actually there is a very high degree of consistency in loot drops based on the mission, NPC, ship class and the position within the NPC fleet / group. But then you would need to spend time collecting and analyzing the data to know this, and given your drive to maximize your ISK / LP as evidenced by your previous posts here and by #2 above I doubt you have the patience or that you would be willing to dedicate the time needed to work this out.
There is always huge timesinks with loot - which are hard to optimize, delay the monetary reward and make the actual reward difficult to calculate on the spot, ie if you don't collect 100+ missions worth at a time and you don't courier the lot to a market hub alt in big chunks, and you don't deal with big stacks on the market, then you repeatedly do the same market checking and thinking and clicking over and over again, which actually hurts isk/time. If you do deal with big stacks, you can temporarily blap the market, because 300 of something that sells 30 a day will cause people to shift their orders, where they might ignore 5.
Quote:
#2 - this is nothing but your personal opinion, even though it is shared by many does not change that fact. The old adage of one man's junk is another man's treasure certainly applies here. To some it is not WHAT you get that matters it is simply the process of obtaining it. I have corp mates that hate to shoot things but find great enjoyment in being the janitorial staff of EvE, they are quite content simply running around and cleaning up the useless stuff people like you leave behind.
Point of view and how long one has been in the game also plays a role here. New / newer players can easily make more cleaning up a single level 4 mission than they could make in a week or more running level 1 and 2 missions.
And then there is the person and the goals they want to achieve. A friend of mine is a numbers geek, he loves anything to do with numbers and figuring statistical averages etc. He is currently working on several projects in EvE that consume hours of game play time simply collecting numbers so he can analyze them with no real in game benefit to be gained by the efforts.
I started this character fresh, did the starter missions till it gave me an imicus and probe launcher so I could scan sigs, and then did a couple of ded1s and then I could afford a comet + fit to do ded1s and ded2s. You'd be there for days salvaging in an imicus, as well as probably training crap like salvaging and market orders for loot efficiency purposes that delay getting efficient at combat.
I understand the desire to keep records, after all I've kept slightly sketchy records of a few thousand anomoly runs, but they lead to encounters that occasionally barf up half a bil or more of loot, and I enjoy the whole skinner box squared experience.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1191
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 15:49:24 -
[27] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Donnachadh wrote:...actually there is a very high degree of consistency in loot drops based on the mission... Actually, there's not. Run Damsel sometime and tell me what you net for loot (not including the rare implant). It used to average around 10-12m ISK and now it's typically in the 3-5m ISK range (although it can be all over the map). Perhaps it is the loot / salvage charts I have collect from more than 300 trips through Damsel over the years that allow me to see see what you cannot. Memory and the perception of things past can be a tricky thing which is why you can interview 20 people who all witnessed the same crime and get a different story from every one of them.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:The vast (vast) majority of mission runners all agree that salvaging sucks as a ROI. Best read again, I never stated anything about loot / salvage and how good or bad it is. In point #1 above you stated that there is no consistency to loot / salvage in missions, my comment addresses that by stating that there is a very high degree of consistency in loot / salvage drops when comparing NPC, ship class, mission and other factors. Since you seem to have the word "consistency" confused with how good or bad something is here is a link that will help clear up that confusion.
Related to this quoted section of your post if it sucks so bad why do people like you waste so much game time running missions when there are many things in game you could be doing that have a higher ROI?
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So if you want to split hairs and say it's my "personal opinion" when 99.95% of mission runners would probably agree with me, knock yourself out. It doesn't change the fact that as it currently stands, "one man's junk" is still "everyone's junk". Before I start the is a short version at the end of this post for those who do not want to read it all.
Considering the large number of players in the game and the extremely small sized group that frequents this or any other EvE related forum I would argue that your 99.95% claim is just another personal opinion and it grossly overstates the realities of the game as a whole. And yes that IS my opinion.
Setting that aside it simply does not matter how many people state that mission loot / salvage is worthless. As long as it has any ISK, or other value / use in the game it's worth depends on what you want / need in the game so indeed the adage of one man's junk is another man's treasure most certainly applies. Just few examples to illustrate what I mean.
Because of your single minded drive to maximize your ISK / LP from missions you see most loot / salvage as worthless, yet DMC, myself an many others I know see it as a valuable source of minerals especially those like Zydrine that cannot be mined in high sec as well as a source for the salvage materials needed to produce rigs.
Then there are the groups of new players I like to have join me in missions. In one 20 to 30 minute stretch of time full clearing a single level 4 mission the loot / salvage they can get is worth more ISK than they can make in a week or more of running level 1 and level 2 missions solo and they get the greater standings boost as a bonus. By spending several enjoyable hours talking to them on TS, teaching them about the game while running missions in the process they make more ISK in one gaming session than they could in a month or more of running missions solo, I get to have fun playing a game and spending time with like minded individuals and I call that a win for everyone involved and that makes the loot / salvage worth more than it's imple ISK value in game.
Yet another point of view, because of my job and how much I get paid and how much I can afford to spend buying plex I simply do not need to concern myself with worthless crap like how much ISK / LP per hour I make or how many ships I lose. Everything I do and everything I have done in the past I did simply because I wanted to do it, and I did it because I enjoyed doing it and yes that includes "wasting" my time cleaning up all that "worthless" space junk you leave laying around.
Promised short version of one man's junk is another man's treasure. Your worthless junk, can be a significant source of ISK for another player. Your worthless junk, could be a valuable source of rig building materials. Cleaning up your worthless junk could be a source of enjoyment for another player. So yes there is truth in the one man's junk is another man's treasure, because the value of loot / salvage cannot be measured in ISK alone. Even if we measure it's worth in ISK alone the true value depends entirely on point of view. 4 to 8 mil from an average level 4 mission may be "worthless" to you, however to a new player starting to explore the world of PvP 4 to 8 mill is enough to buy several fully fit ships to take out and experiment with. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5970
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Posted - 2017.03.09 16:23:56 -
[28] - Quote
I'm not sure how many Alpha players aspire to train into scanning down wrecks and salvaging. Yes, at the end of the day it's still ISK - but there are easier ways of earning it. If active missions had beacons and you could simply warp to them - it would be another matter entirely. As I said - if shooting and salvaging everything does it for you - you're all set.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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