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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.30 01:31:00 -
[31]
I don't see a problem with them being 100% effective, I'd be happy with the ability to quickly target them. Something kicking out that much power ought to have a signature proportional to its area of effect.
Stop me, sure. Now keep me from breaking the leash. Right now, they're a little difficult to pop before the ambush team is giving you a webber massage.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
Gomaz
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Posted - 2007.04.30 02:27:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Gomaz on 30/04/2007 02:24:54 Well to be honest not super experienced with this, but why not make bubbles Jamable. Even if its a super low strength and easy to do you still have to be able to live long enough. So the attacker would still have enough time to lock you down.
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Rosalina Sarinna
KHM Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.30 02:43:00 -
[33]
Bubble immunity for blockade runners - 100% support Idea that bubble is AOE -3 warp core stength - 100% support
Either way something has to be done. As stated before, this is one area in the game that has no counter (like cloaked ships).
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DiuxDium
Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 02:51:00 -
[34]
0.0 is a dangerous place. -------------
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.04.30 03:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Beowulf Scheafer bubbles are the only way to kill something 100%, and thoose are fine the way it is.
i think the truth is CCP don't want exactly you to be safe, and tbh for me that is fine
signed
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Selnix
Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 03:38:00 -
[36]
Hrm... Where to start?
Blockade Runners can't... Then you aren't flying it so well. All blockade runners can tank for a while if nessecary. Jumping through a stargate puts you within 20km of it, usually closer to 15km. Ships in EVE have inertia, and an elite industrial with a microwarpdrive on has quite a bit once it starts moving, enough that they can almost always coast into a gate despite being webbed. If you can't tank the damage for the whole two to five seconds that you are viable in space, then there were more than enough enemies to justify your death regardless.
Interdictor bubbles have infinite strength... And the problem with this is? Give bubbles, deployable or dictor, a set strength and they immediately become relatively useless at performing their task. Sure, you can still catch ships that don't choose to stab up, but the ships that already fly around with a full low slot rack of warp core stabs can evade even a moderately large fleet simply because they are in warp before six ships can get in range, target and scramble. There is nothing stopping these same people from fitting a multitude of counter-bubbles in the same manner. Is it realistic that an Iteron V would be able to warp around and evade five Heavy Assault Cruisers that total nearly a billion isk or more indefinately thanks to about a hundered thousand isk worth of tech one warp core stabs? Without interdictor and deployable bubbles, ships with plentiful low slots can move with impunity.
Bubbles haven't been nerfed... Reducing the duration to 50% of what they once were isn't a nerf? The duration change gives dictor pilots two choices; set it to auto-repeat, thus wasting expensive probes in an overlap time and possibly resulting in your a friend of yours death due to an unwanted bubble appearing OR set it to manual-fire, which creates a dead zone between bubbles that lasts 60-100 seconds or so depending on skill levels, thus allowing ships to escape because you can't fire the module again even though it is sitting there inactive and loaded.
Bubbles need a counter... Smartbombs will destroy interdictor probes. Motion can take you outside of an interdictor probe's influence. Dictor bubbles are also one of the better ways to prevent a capital ship from jumping out of system so, of course, that in and of itself justifies making them easy to defeat, can't have a ship that someone spent a couple months learing to fly stopping our carrier from jumping out. :P
In case you don't realize it, bubbles don't only affect the ones jumping into them, they stop the guys using them from warping just as well. There isn't anything stopping you from using their bubbles to your advantage should you choose to do so.
If bubbles need any changes, it is to the interdictor variant. The reactivation delay needs to be removed as it is likely a bug resulting from the reduced duration of the module. Interdiction spheres need the ability to stop a warp that has already been initiated. When the role of the ship is described by CCP in the items database as *Destroyer-class vessels, designed to pull other vessels out of warp.* and *Interdictors are destroyer-sized vessels built to fill a single important tactical niche: the breaching of enemy warp tunnels*, it seems only fair that they be able to do so. Currently, launching a bubble between two set points in space will not pull a ship from warp, although the role suggests that it would. And a ship has but to click WARP-TO before the bubble goes up and it currently has no effect on the vessel, counter to the role as stated.
And for anyone that thinks the changes would make them overpowered, please take a look at the signature radius and paper-thin shield/hull/armor before spouting off.
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Tek'a Rain
Gallente Isis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:01:00 -
[37]
the "but everyone will just fill their lows with Stabs" argument is fairly weak from people who want bubbles unchanged. the stab stuffed have plenty of drawbacks on their own now, so is it not the time to give some advantage to people who Are willing to take those drawbacks?
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:23:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Selnix Hrm... Where to start?
Blockade Runners can't... Then you aren't flying it so well. All blockade runners can tank for a while if nessecary. Jumping through a stargate puts you within 20km of it, usually closer to 15km. Ships in EVE have inertia, and an elite industrial with a microwarpdrive on has quite a bit once it starts moving, enough that they can almost always coast into a gate despite being webbed.
Clearly you've never tried slapping a MWD on to a blockade runner. At Engineering V, a Crane has just enough PG to fit the MWD, and that's it. These things really weren't intended to MWD around anywhere. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Statix
Dark Knights of Deneb
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:45:00 -
[39]
CCP make warp to 0 and you want bubbles nerfed? Whats wrong? Some piwate steal ur lunch?
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Slythought
Sly Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:45:00 -
[40]
Bubbles and dictors are fine as they are, they only work in 0.0 so if your moving about, on your own , then you deserve to die.
Don't like it?? Head back to Empire and be safe! 0.0 is suppose to be dangerous stop moanong!!
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Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.04.30 05:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Cyan Nuevo on 30/04/2007 05:56:11 I support this. Bigger ships with lots of lows (aka lots of stabs) will still be lockable before they can warp away.
Edit: Oh, I don't support nerfing interdictor bubbles though. They should still catch everything.
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ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.04.30 06:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: DiuxDium ^^ If you run through 0.0 alone, you deserve to die. Story ends there.
0.0 is a dangerous place.
Here are some other great sentences from the "...you deserve to DIE! story ends there." series.
"if you fly amarr..."
"if you ever fit wcs..."
"if you don't want to PvP..."
etc.
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Selnix
Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 06:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Tek'a Rain the "but everyone will just fill their lows with Stabs" argument is fairly weak from people who want bubbles unchanged. the stab stuffed have plenty of drawbacks on their own now, so is it not the time to give some advantage to people who Are willing to take those drawbacks?
How does a scan res penalty and max targeting range penalty hurt an Iteron or a travel fitted Scorpion? The people who do stab spam are not there to engage you, they are there to run like rabbits.
Originally by: Verite Rendition Clearly you've never tried slapping a MWD on to a blockade runner. At Engineering V, a Crane has just enough PG to fit the MWD, and that's it. These things really weren't intended to MWD around anywhere.
Guess that extra 30 PG on the Prorator is nicer than I thought
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papamikeforthewin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:08:00 -
[44]
I wonder how many of the people now whining about bubbles were silent as long as they could safely log off at gates and warp away
Thankyou ccp for finally doing half of what is necessary to allow pvp in eve not be reduced to just concentual pvp. I bet the majority of those advocating nerfs in this thread were more than happy to jump into a bubble and smuggly hit ctrl-q before that lil chestnut.
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NOObbody
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:11:00 -
[45]
Why should bubbles be fixed? They work 100% as intended. --- I was sworn to absolute secrecy! |
Spike 68
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:13:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Spike 68 on 30/04/2007 07:10:12 I know what they should do, when you jump into a bubble the EVE client should not warp scramble you and just display a pop up which states that you are in a bubble and should not warp.
Oh and btw, that was sarcasm
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DiuxDium
Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: ry ry
Originally by: DiuxDium ^^ If you run through 0.0 alone, you deserve to die. Story ends there.
0.0 is a dangerous place.
Here are some other great sentences from the "...you deserve to DIE! story ends there." series.
"if you fly amarr..."
"if you ever fit wcs..."
"if you don't want to PvP..."
etc.
k -------------
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:47:00 -
[48]
@selnix: as someone already pointed out: powergrid is a factor here. they are cruiser-sized; the weight alone demands 150MW for this project to run a t1 MWD - with <170MW available, quite an undertaking.
agility and thus acceleration is, thx to the added weight, a lot less viable than you wish to make us believe: 15-16 ktons do not produce the comfy nanospeeds, you're appearantly still used to, anymore. fully skilled, the top speed of the fastest (prowler) does not exceed 290m/s. T1 MWD then delivers a maximum velocity of ~1800m/s, which of course you'll never achieve. having to run 15km unwebbed takes at least 15 seconds. during this time, you crawl with (minimum) 700-750m signature. cruisers (550mm resolution) target you within 2.5sec, add some reaction time and you're webbed within 4seconds. suddenly those 15km have become a loooong distance, you're far from being fast and decelerating
and you're contradicting there: first, we have the dictor bubble, and suddenly you're not in range to scramble some more...
if you're unable to fit an extra -2 for total certainty, you deserve to be the laughing stock of the industrial community (aka the "you derve to die" volley right back at ya). except for the prorator and the occator, none can go beyond +5
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Haffrage
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.04.30 07:51:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Verite Rendition
Originally by: Selnix Hrm... Where to start?
Blockade Runners can't... Then you aren't flying it so well. All blockade runners can tank for a while if nessecary. Jumping through a stargate puts you within 20km of it, usually closer to 15km. Ships in EVE have inertia, and an elite industrial with a microwarpdrive on has quite a bit once it starts moving, enough that they can almost always coast into a gate despite being webbed.
Clearly you've never tried slapping a MWD on to a blockade runner. At Engineering V, a Crane has just enough PG to fit the MWD, and that's it. These things really weren't intended to MWD around anywhere.
I have an MWD and tank on my Prowler, Viator, AND on my Crane. Point out any blockade runner that can tank as well as the Crane too, btw. If you can't find the grid to fit a tank and MWD they have lows and RCU's in the game for reasons. They also have cosmos modules for reasons -----
Tech 2 Tier 2 Battlecruisers |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:00:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 30/04/2007 07:56:08 It wouldn't probably be a problem for blockade runners...if it weren't for bumpage
Though i think since you land at a hefty 20km from the gate, you have time to move away a bit and warp before those pesky guys come and nudge your boat.
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:04:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider with agility and mass stacking nerfed and warp core stabs enjoying quite a heavy drawback these days, why do bubbles still have to be so completely day-ruining?
Because that's the entire point of using them? They're a tool for making your target dead - one that's more effective than warp scramblers and disruptors. This is the way it's supposed to be.
Quote: i just want to bring back...warp core stabs.
Die in a fire. (I've wanted an excuse to use that line for a while, now.)
Quote: now... where's my flame suit...
I burned it. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Firane
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:10:00 -
[52]
not signed
I'd say about half of the kills I've gotten in the past month have had stabs fitted, showing that stabs are still broken and far too commonplace. I should not have to bring 3-4 points(up to 8 for bs) to catch ships in 0.0. Therefor, bubbles are about the last thing that does do its job properly. At least when nanos were around, you didn't get aggression when you missed the ship, now you lock fine, aggress, and they still warp off, and you're stuck behind a gate with nothing to do.
-----
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Sinder Ohm
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:17:00 -
[53]
NO !
LEARN TO PLAY FFS stop trying to get something nerfed cos it doesnt suit you!
Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
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Tommy Vercetti
Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:23:00 -
[54]
Person A: (In corp chat) Hey guys, I'm moving my entire 2 bil assetts in a hauler I bought for 2 mil isk through Syndicate. Can someone scout for me pls in a shuttle for 10 minutes? Person B: Yeah dude, no problem.
Is it that freakin hard to do the above?
As for the OP, the reason why the map is delayed is because if your map was realtime then you would basically know what every single corp/alliance is doing in eve in one single moment. Think about that FFS.
Originally by: Drake Heartbreaker
that've caught the attention of PA, who are no better than a group of thugs roaming around Afghanistan in technicals with AK-47s looking for a UN supply truck to rob. [/q |
Llyando Autora
Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:31:00 -
[55]
Firing a Dictor bubble should count as aggro. It would also be nice if they showed up in the overview as targetable (or even so you get some idea of how close to the edge of it you are, esp. with the graphic size bugged) Bubbles should remain as powerful as they are, and to whomever said that blockade runners cant run on their own, they shouldnt be able to. They should be more useful than industrials, but certainly not 'I win' haulers. If you need to run a blockade to fuel a POS etc, then do it with a sacrificial fleet and run like hell...
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:37:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sinder Ohm NO !
LEARN TO PLAY FFS stop trying to get something nerfed cos it doesnt suit you!
yes! cause ffs "mommy, i don't wanna give up the we-win-button" doesnt get this game balanced
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xMillz
Exploring Blind
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Bazzaye How about bubbles being changed so that you have to activate your scramblers on them to make them work? Each point increases range and strength of the bubble, this way manned bubbles become stronger and unmanned bubbles become weaker.
It would also make the campers more vulnerable to being blobbed as they have to remain by the bubble to make it work, and the lager the fleet the more ships have to be be inside it. This would also create ship roles which are dedicated scramblers and make fleet ships fit for different roles.
The 1 to 1 ratio could be altered and the size constant being modified (points are equal to radius * constant)
Like this one..
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Qolde
Minmatar Guardian Heroes Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:16:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bazzaye How about bubbles being changed so that you have to activate your scramblers on them to make them work? Each point increases range and strength of the bubble, this way manned bubbles become stronger and unmanned bubbles become weaker.
It would also make the campers more vulnerable to being blobbed as they have to remain by the bubble to make it work, and the lager the fleet the more ships have to be be inside it. This would also create ship roles which are dedicated scramblers and make fleet ships fit for different roles.
The 1 to 1 ratio could be altered and the size constant being modified (points are equal to radius * constant)
Promotes blobbage even more than ever. Blobbage is worse than bubbles. Never get popped again! |
Ket Halpak
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:21:00 -
[59]
Balance in eve is about having a counter. With WT0 people needed a way to defend their territory effectivly. So in came large bubbles. An effective counter to wt0. But bubbles don't have a counter (other than attempting to blow them to bits).
Now blockade runners by name should be able to escape gate camps effectivly. Their drawback is that they have a small cargo space compared to a t1 industrial.They come in built with a +2 warp core strength to avoid warp disrupters and they have a decent speed and a few low slots to add more wcs.
This was fine before wt0 as before large bubbles most people used either lots of small bubbles or a warp scrammer or 2. Blockade runners were able to escape with a little difficulty. Now with large bubbles blockade runners are out of date and need some lovin'.
My suggestion is create a special wcs module that can only be equiped to blockade runners. Have 1 module give the ability to escape small bubbles. 2 for medium and 3 for large. The blockade runner looses space for cargo expanders, inertia stabs or normal wcs. Basically make the blockade runner need to equip 3 'warp area stabs' for deep space transport.
Leave interdictor bubbles as is, and i think we have a solution. _ Check out my blog at RantingsofaCarebear.blogspot.com Privateers: Those who don't adapt become victims of harsh irony |
Wolfmoon
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Posted - 2007.04.30 09:35:00 -
[60]
I think the whole bubble thing is weak to begin with. There are more original things that could have been implemented, with more of a chance at success/failure than a 100% brick wall stuck at every gate going to 0.0.
I gave up on it. I wanted to go cruise 0.0 to see if life out there might be fun...got my answer. I tried 22 times and died 22 times in bubbles. Good thing I was on my noob alt with a junk ship.
Hope they enjoyed the utter garbage my wreck left them, that, and turning away the prospect of me spending any time or ISK in 0.0. What a waste of game space.
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