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Raketenkaese
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:15:00 -
[1]
Training for t2 stuff is penalty enough. Once you re there you discover you re nerfed. How silly.
And yes, those with it will spank the crap out of everyone not having it.
So?
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Arcadia1701
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:21:00 -
[2]
I predict a padlock on this. My sig>
**Post with your main or STFU ** |
Kahor
Minmatar Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:34:00 -
[3]
Just a quick question, does the t2 guns bonus apply to only t2 ammos ? Or any ammos used with t2 guns ?
---------------- An eye for an eye make a whole world blind. *snip*, do not evade the word filter with your sig. Email [email protected] for more information. -HornFrog |
Arcadia1701
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:38:00 -
[4]
Any ammo placed into it. My sig>
**Post with your main or STFU ** |
Bentula
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Raketenkaese Training for t2 stuff is penalty enough. Once you re there you discover you re nerfed. How silly.
And yes, those with it will spank the crap out of everyone not having it.
So?
Wait, so the penalty is so bad you consider yourself nerfed but you still spank anyone who doesnt has it?
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2007.04.29 14:43:00 -
[6]
Some of the T2 ammo is useful. Scorch, Conflag, Aurora.
Some isn't worth the sever space it takes up. Like Gleam.
Depends on what your situation is. Often you can get by with T1 ammo loaded in T2 guns. ----------------
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:18:00 -
[7]
imho the problem is the same with the closerange railgun amo. its penalties are so ridiculous compared to antimatter. with closerage railgun amu you cannot move anymore (speed penalty), your tracking is crap, your cap need is crap, your range is TOTALY crap, your fitting requirements are worse than with named rails and your damage is not much more than with prototype railguns (best named) and the damage is ridiculous compared to faction guns.
why cant faction guns use t2 amu?
faction should be > t2
you train months for t2 guns and get such crap. there is no better timesink in skill training which gets you worse results compared to the time consumed.
btw the long range railgun amu is fine. its just the shortrange one which is totaly useless. fix it! also fix faction guns which should be > t2.
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Spenz
Gallente FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:23:00 -
[8]
Javelin ammo is HORRIBLE. The tracking is worse than Spike, the cap usage is worse than neutrons with antimatter, the speed penalty ensures that you arent going anywhere without at least a T2 AB, the shield nerf basically negates it for use in caldari ships, and at the end antimatter STILL does more DPS.
Some T2 ammo is so hopelessly nerfed it makes no sense even carrying it in your hold let alone loading it in your guns.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Marquis Dean
Energy. Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bentula
Originally by: Raketenkaese Training for t2 stuff is penalty enough. Once you re there you discover you re nerfed. How silly.
And yes, those with it will spank the crap out of everyone not having it.
So?
Wait, so the penalty is so bad you consider yourself nerfed but you still spank anyone who doesnt has it?
I think he meant that if people had T2 ammo with no negative bonuses, they would spank. And they probably would. ---
Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:27:00 -
[10]
second this. its true antimatter does more dps since you will hit the target much earlier (more range) and much better (more tracking). the only use for javelin is to get faster in warp. if aligned and accelerating, load javelin and you are instant in warp :D
please fix javelin. (and give my faction guns t2 amu :D)
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ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:27:00 -
[11]
IBL
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:28:00 -
[12]
I like how some guy who shot both t2 torps and t1 of the same damage type did less damage with t2 torps on my triple t2 lse drake, even with target painters on it xD.
I doubt anyone uses t2 torps these days. =/
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:33:00 -
[13]
It's supposed to be specialised ammo, not just out-and-out better in every way.
In some ship setups, T2 ammo is just plain not supposed to be better than T1. Deal.
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nero Scuro It's supposed to be specialised ammo, not just out-and-out better in every way.
In some ship setups, T2 ammo is just plain not supposed to be better than T1. Deal.
javelin is worse in every ship setup than antimatter. there is no role for javelin left which justifies the price and time for skill training
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:47:00 -
[15]
I have to say I also hate the penalties on t2 ammo.
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Spenz
Gallente FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nero Scuro It's supposed to be specialised ammo, not just out-and-out better in every way.
In some ship setups, T2 ammo is just plain not supposed to be better than T1. Deal.
So Javelin ammo is suppose to specialize in.....?
How about specialize in getting you killed since it makes you easier to kill (but nothing else basically)
Why dont you THINK before you post. T2 ammo isnt suppose to be "specialized" its suppose to be BETTER. They nerfed it BECAUSE it is better. Some of the nerfs are unjustified. There is no "specialized" ammunition otherwise we would have projectiles that warp scrambled, charges that ECM jammed, and Lasers that webbed.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 15:57:00 -
[17]
spike m for example is fine. its damage is similar to uranium m (with skills for t2 rails) and the range is fine but tracking is crap - it is specially for sniping and its penalties are fine.
javelin m has -14% to speed PER GUN. take this *7 and you end up with 60 m/s on an battlecruiser with ab ON. your tracking is crap, your range is crap, you need more cap and all this just for a small bit more damage IF your target is within your range (which is easily to avoid for the target since you cannot move at all).
javelin is useless.
i don't know the situation for the other t2 amos but railgun is definatly nerved to hell and back and rendered useless.
which role is javelin supposed to fill? which use does it have?
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:01:00 -
[18]
Javelin is still good for something. When you're just traveling, you stick 1 round in each of your guns and you more or less instawarp because of the retard speed nerf. :P
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Marquis Dean
Energy. Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rooker Javelin is still good for something. When you're just traveling, you stick 1 round in each of your guns and you more or less instawarp because of the retard speed nerf. :P
That's not how that works. You'll still take just as long to get to 3/4 of your top speed, whether your top speed is 500m/s or 5m/s ---
Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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Spenz
Gallente FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:27:00 -
[20]
Well at least im not the only one completely frustrated with Javelin. Is there any other T2 ammo as worthless as Javelin?
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:35:00 -
[21]
I was pretty disappointed when I tried out T2 missiles, but at least I don't seem to be shafted as badly as you guys.
Sometimes I don't know if CCP understands the fundamental, inherent nerf for anything you can possibly use - opportunity cost. Just by picking one thing, you can't use all the others. That alone is all the "nerf" you need half the time, since you have limited slots and weapons.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:42:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Nero Scuro on 29/04/2007 16:39:14
Originally by: Spenz
Originally by: Nero Scuro It's supposed to be specialised ammo, not just out-and-out better in every way.
In some ship setups, T2 ammo is just plain not supposed to be better than T1. Deal.
So Javelin ammo is suppose to specialize in.....?
How about specialize in getting you killed since it makes you easier to kill (but nothing else basically)
Why dont you THINK before you post. T2 ammo isnt suppose to be "specialized" its suppose to be BETTER. They nerfed it BECAUSE it is better. Some of the nerfs are unjustified. There is no "specialized" ammunition otherwise we would have projectiles that warp scrambled, charges that ECM jammed, and Lasers that webbed.
I said it was SPECIALISED, I didn't say it was well BALANCED. I don't get into balance discussions, they're retarded, I was merely raising a counterpoint to the "remove all T2 ammo disadvantages" point. If ONE ammo type is imbalanced, that isn't a reason to remove all ammo penalties, that just means CCP have to balance one ammo type, jackass.
And they NEVER nerfed T2 ammo. It has ALWAYS had these penalties to it. So until you point me to some evidence (hint - evidence != what your opinion is) that T2 ammo is just supposed to be 'better', please STFU 'k?
PS - oh, and javelin is specialised DPS ammo. AFAIK, it has the highest damage of any hybrid ammo type. It's not built for speed, range or tracking, it's built for pure damage. Sounds pretty specialised to me.
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DarkArch0n X
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Spenz Well at least im not the only one completely frustrated with Javelin. Is there any other T2 ammo as worthless as Javelin?
Yes , Hail is nerfed too. - 10% cap recharge rate/gun and bad tracking. I rather use Barrage. Same with Quake , you get less tracking , speed and cap recharge so its even worse than Javelin.
Seems like all T2 close range "high dmg" ammo is useless
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Ghostshadow
Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:46:00 -
[24]
Javlin is good for stationary (Like strucures in missions) or very large targets (capitals).
____________________________________________ A * B = C A = Skill Points B = GPA C = a Constant. Guess what happens to B as A increases.
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:48:00 -
[25]
sony online entertainment made the mistake to exagerate with their nerfs. it made me stop playing the their game. in everquest II there was a sorcerer class called coercer which basic features were growd control, rooting and mezzing but which had crap dps. SOE decided they are too powerful and the nervbat hit them and smashed them into the ground. after nerv this class was complete useless and everybody who played them could begin a new char.
although ccp seems to be a bit more careful with their nervs i still think some of the nervs are a bit too harsh. would be nice if ccp would be more "sensitive" with their ballance changes.
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ghostshadow Javlin is good for stationary (Like strucures in missions) or very large targets (capitals).
and which use does javelin m and javelin s have? no one would use frigs or cruisers against stationary targets and you have to admit that the only use of javelin for structures is a bit poor.
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:53:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Krugerrand on 29/04/2007 16:49:42 T2 close range, high damage ammo is fine in the situations that it is meant to be used in, Battleship size, same for most of M. Small it's not useful but oh well.
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ghostshadow Javlin is good for stationary (Like strucures in missions) or very large targets (capitals).
Yep. Javelin is like Rage torps--either come prepared to take advantage of it (webbers in both cases, painters for Rage), or load tech-1 and be done with it.
Now, that said, I think Javelin and Rage torps are a bit over-nerfed ATM, but they certainly don't need all their penalties removed!
--P
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Spenz
Gallente FIRMA
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Posted - 2007.04.29 16:59:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Spenz on 29/04/2007 16:56:04
Originally by: Nero Scuro Edited by: Nero Scuro on 29/04/2007 16:39:14
Originally by: Spenz
Originally by: Nero Scuro It's supposed to be specialised ammo, not just out-and-out better in every way.
In some ship setups, T2 ammo is just plain not supposed to be better than T1. Deal.
So Javelin ammo is suppose to specialize in.....?
How about specialize in getting you killed since it makes you easier to kill (but nothing else basically)
Why dont you THINK before you post. T2 ammo isnt suppose to be "specialized" its suppose to be BETTER. They nerfed it BECAUSE it is better. Some of the nerfs are unjustified. There is no "specialized" ammunition otherwise we would have projectiles that warp scrambled, charges that ECM jammed, and Lasers that webbed.
I said it was SPECIALISED, I didn't say it was well BALANCED. I don't get into balance discussions, they're retarded, I was merely raising a counterpoint to the "remove all T2 ammo disadvantages" point. If ONE ammo type is imbalanced, that isn't a reason to remove all ammo penalties, that just means CCP have to balance one ammo type, jackass.
And they NEVER nerfed T2 ammo. It has ALWAYS had these penalties to it. So until you point me to some evidence (hint - evidence != what your opinion is) that T2 ammo is just supposed to be 'better', please STFU 'k?
PS - oh, and javelin is specialised DPS ammo. AFAIK, it has the highest damage of any hybrid ammo type. It's not built for speed, range or tracking, it's built for pure damage. Sounds pretty specialised to me.
So the fact that javelin does LESS DoT than Antimatter makes it specialized as a high damage ammo? Gosh Im so wrong then. Your right. Javelin is specialized in high damage. Question is who recieves that high damage; your opponent, who is dodging every shot, or you, who is so nerfed in speed and shields that he can just keep getting wrecking hits on your ship.
Javelin also has a built in webifier that activates on your ship so yeah I guess it is specialized.
As for no evidence that T2 ammo is nerfed, I have 2 answers for that. 1. Provide evidence that T2 ammo DIDN'T have limiters placed on it because it was better and 2. Read the patch notes for Revelations and you might see a few 'changes' concerning T2 ammo.
Im pretty sure number 1 will be tough for you since you cant read the Dev's minds. Guess thats what happens when you make stupid demands. Number 2 is evidence of nerfs so yeah I guess you are wrong. They DID nerf T2 ammo heh.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Vactet
Immortalis Silens
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:04:00 -
[30]
Not gonna talk about the T2 ammo. But to those saying the training isnt worth what you get..lets look at that. -T2 Guns, even with T1 ammo, have a higher damage. So thats a good reason. -You gotta go up the path for T2 guns to go dread most of the time. (Large Hybrid 5 is required for capital rails/blasters for instance. Missiles is another story altogether)
Thats two big things for me. I understand alot of people have no interest in dreads, but regardless of that, the whole damage thing is good for everyone.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
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