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Kather
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: DarkArch0n X
Seems like all T2 close range "high dmg" ammo is useless
conflags pretty good i think avast, matey! Yarr old sig is too large, the maximum allowed filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Hango
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SamuraiJack
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:07:00 -
[32]
You mean like t2 light missles on a crow?
Go from a nice uber speed... to barge speeds with 3x launchers loaded.
YaY ccp?
or having the shields of an ibis and having to armour tank and pray with the other missles. (fury?) SJ. CLS Co-CEO and Standings Director =-
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:13:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Spenz
So the fact that javelin does LESS DoT than Antimatter makes it specialized as a high damage ammo? Gosh Im so wrong then. Your right. Javelin is specialized in high damage. Question is who recieves that high damage; your opponent, who is dodging every shot, or you, who is so nerfed in speed and shields that he can just keep getting wrecking hits on your ship.
Javelin also has a built in webifier that activates on your ship so yeah I guess it is specialized.
As for no evidence that T2 ammo is nerfed, I have 2 answers for that. 1. Provide evidence that T2 ammo DIDN'T have limiters placed on it because it was better and 2. Read the patch notes for Revelations and you might see a few 'changes' concerning T2 ammo.
Im pretty sure number 1 will be tough for you since you cant read the Dev's minds. Guess thats what happens when you make stupid demands. Number 2 is evidence of nerfs so yeah I guess you are wrong. They DID nerf T2 ammo heh.
Javelin does NOT do less DoT than AM! Jesus, you just don't really get the meaning of SPECIALISED, do you? Javelin is good VS targets larger than yourself where speed isn't an issue. That's called specialisation. Use Jav S against cruisers or bigger and the tracking won't matter. Same with Jav M against BS, or Jav L against capitals. Moron.
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Vulture Virtue
Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:13:00 -
[34]
T2 Rage torps are pretty decent for the most part. Even post nerf, they do a ton of damage. However, I think that T2 Javelin torps have been pretty much nerfed into uselessness. In almost all cases, T1 torps are better for the job than T2 Javelin torps. T2 Javelin torps could probably use something like an explosion radius decrease, I think it's a little silly that is the same on T1 torps.
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:14:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 29/04/2007 17:10:48
Originally by: Vactet
But to those saying the training isnt worth what you get..lets look at that. -T2 Guns, even with T1 ammo, have a higher damage. So thats a good reason.
250mm prototype gauss railgun damage mod 3,3 250mm railgun II damage mod 3,3
take the med railgun spec skill and you have 8%-10% more damage with antimatter m - wow... what an effort for months of training.
if you compare shadow serpentis / gallente navy 250mm railgun with t2 the damage bonus is ridiculous.
the extra damage comes from the amunition, read javelin m, which is just stupidly nerved and totaly useless. i prefer antimatter m over javelin m in every situation.
when shooting structures: antimatter m is much cheaper when shooting everything else: antimatter m has much better range and tracking
there is no use for javelin m and s because every frig or cruiser sized vessel is doomed to death with this speed penalty.
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.29 17:21:00 -
[36]
T2 ammo didn't always exist yet the damage mod on best named/t2 have always been the same.
That extra 8% adds up to a lot, if you don't think so then don't bother training it up.
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Crescens
Caldari Dark Tornado Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.04.29 18:33:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Crescens on 29/04/2007 18:30:12
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
take the med railgun spec skill and you have 8%-10% more damage with antimatter m - wow... what an effort for months of training.
if you compare shadow serpentis / gallente navy 250mm railgun with t2 the damage bonus is ridiculous.
the extra damage comes from the amunition, read javelin m, which is just stupidly nerved and totaly useless. i prefer antimatter m over javelin m in every situation.
when shooting structures: antimatter m is much cheaper when shooting everything else: antimatter m has much better range and tracking
there is no use for javelin m and s because every frig or cruiser sized vessel is doomed to death with this speed penalty.
Nobody is forcing you to use Javelin; maybe a couple of T2 ammo types could use a little boost, but better that they be nerfed and no one use them than have them overpowered so that people use nothing else.
With regards to the idiotic skill whine, every skill you train towards T2 ammo (and this applies to almost every T2 item in the game) helps your effectivity regardless of what item the skill is a pre-req for. Those 'months of training' aren't wasted skillpoints. Going with your 250mm railgun example, any decent railgun user would train Medium Hybrid Turret 5 and Sharpshooter 4 whether T2 guns and ammo existed or not, just for the extra damage and range they provide.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.29 19:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Spenz
So the fact that javelin does LESS DoT than Antimatter makes it specialized as a high damage ammo? Gosh Im so wrong then. Your right. Javelin is specialized in high damage. Question is who recieves that high damage; your opponent, who is dodging every shot, or you, who is so nerfed in speed and shields that he can just keep getting wrecking hits on your ship.
Javelin also has a built in webifier that activates on your ship so yeah I guess it is specialized.
As for no evidence that T2 ammo is nerfed, I have 2 answers for that. 1. Provide evidence that T2 ammo DIDN'T have limiters placed on it because it was better and 2. Read the patch notes for Revelations and you might see a few 'changes' concerning T2 ammo.
Im pretty sure number 1 will be tough for you since you cant read the Dev's minds. Guess thats what happens when you make stupid demands. Number 2 is evidence of nerfs so yeah I guess you are wrong. They DID nerf T2 ammo heh.
Javelin does NOT do less DoT than AM! Jesus, you just don't really get the meaning of SPECIALISED, do you? Javelin is good VS targets larger than yourself where speed isn't an issue. That's called specialisation. Use Jav S against cruisers or bigger and the tracking won't matter. Same with Jav M against BS, or Jav L against capitals. Moron.
ERM, no, tracking penalty is to steep unless you can web your target to a standstill. By the the time it takes for the target to decellerate, you would have done more damage with antimatter, unless you are using small rails against a Capital ship.
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:00:00 -
[39]
Yes, but with the tracking penalty you still hit anything the same size as you (exception being small frig combat) fine. The idea is it shouldn't be able to hit smaller stuff, then it would be overpowered.
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MassonA
Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: DarkArch0n X
Originally by: Spenz Well at least im not the only one completely frustrated with Javelin. Is there any other T2 ammo as worthless as Javelin?
Yes , Hail is nerfed too. - 10% cap recharge rate/gun and bad tracking. I rather use Barrage. Same with Quake , you get less tracking , speed and cap recharge so its even worse than Javelin.
Seems like all T2 close range "high dmg" ammo is useless
hail is alright if you're going for a larger target - otherwise barrage wins
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Lady Noriko
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:08:00 -
[41]
TII Guns = Cheap Faction Guns = Expensive
TII Guns + TI Ammo = good and cheap TII Guns + TI Ammo + Optional TII Ammo = very good and cheap
Faction Guns + T1 Ammo = slightly more bang for a ridiculous amount of isk
- Don't force cubes through the rectangle shaped openings, please? -
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:50:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 29/04/2007 20:48:58
Originally by: Nero Scuro
Originally by: Spenz
So the fact that javelin does LESS DoT than Antimatter makes it specialized as a high damage ammo? Gosh Im so wrong then. Your right. Javelin is specialized in high damage. Question is who recieves that high damage; your opponent, who is dodging every shot, or you, who is so nerfed in speed and shields that he can just keep getting wrecking hits on your ship.
Javelin also has a built in webifier that activates on your ship so yeah I guess it is specialized.
As for no evidence that T2 ammo is nerfed, I have 2 answers for that. 1. Provide evidence that T2 ammo DIDN'T have limiters placed on it because it was better and 2. Read the patch notes for Revelations and you might see a few 'changes' concerning T2 ammo.
Im pretty sure number 1 will be tough for you since you cant read the Dev's minds. Guess thats what happens when you make stupid demands. Number 2 is evidence of nerfs so yeah I guess you are wrong. They DID nerf T2 ammo heh.
Javelin does NOT do less DoT than AM! Jesus, you just don't really get the meaning of SPECIALISED, do you? Javelin is good VS targets larger than yourself where speed isn't an issue. That's called specialisation. Use Jav S against cruisers or bigger and the tracking won't matter. Same with Jav M against BS, or Jav L against capitals. Moron.
you dont get the point. regardless your stupid behaviour i'll explain it for you.
you talk about javelin beeing specialised for engaging larger targets.
your frig engaging a cruiser and using javelin will be certain DEAD due to the speed penalty. the bigger cruiser guns will rip you apart while you are crawling around with your javelin s loaded.
same with cruisers/bc versus bs. you are so slow, the bs guns will have a easy time hitting you.
there is no use for javelin except when it comes to stationary target which is ridiculous.
and of course it does less DoT. you can't do damage to something you cannot hit because it is out of range or your tracking is to slow.
please think before writing.
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.04.29 20:51:00 -
[43]
Well, I guess the penalties would make some sense if they were only applied *once*, no matter how many guns have that ammo loaded. The way it is right now, I can get a vengeance with MWD and gleam to have a bigger sig radius than an Apoc... ¼_¼ --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
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Frances Ducoir
Academy of Decadence
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Posted - 2007.04.29 21:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Well, I guess the penalties would make some sense if they were only applied *once*, no matter how many guns have that ammo loaded. The way it is right now, I can get a vengeance with MWD and gleam to have a bigger sig radius than an Apoc... ¼_¼
this exactly is the problem:
javelin m: -14% speed PER GUN is way too much nerved. take it *7 and your bc will crawl at 60 mps with ab on.
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Nymos
Haiduken Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.29 21:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Nero Scuro And they NEVER nerfed T2 ammo. It has ALWAYS had these penalties to it.
huh? iirc before kali quake ammo had a tracking BONUS applied to it and not a penalty. it slowed you down too, but that was fine. now you get your cap regen pwnt, have a 50% tracking penalty and gimped speed (not sure how speed is compared to pre-kali).
so, they did nerf t2 ammo with kali. --
Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)
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Aslann
Gallente Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.29 22:30:00 -
[46]
Javelin no longer gives a shield penalty since the introduction of the rokh. We wouldnt be calling it caldari online if it did now would we ;).
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Tactus
the Organ Grinder and Company
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Posted - 2007.04.30 06:26:00 -
[47]
Javelin is fun! It's chance-based like ECM (will I hit? will I miss? THE SUSPENSE SUSTAINS ME!!!) but it fits in a railgun.
ECM in a railgun ftw.
__________________________ originally posted by Raivi
Quote: ...but if spending all your imaginary money on an imaginary spaceship with a camo paintjob is wrong then I don't want to be right. |
Arktaos
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.04.30 06:54:00 -
[48]
people are missing out a huge keyword in regards to T2 ammo, that someone also said a bit further up: It is Situational ammo.
Besides, t2 guns already rock cause of the spec skill, so you get more damage than T1 guns.
There is no uber uber without a penalty of some sort. If you won't use T2 ammo, then fine, don't use it! Noone is forcing you to use it.
But when you end up in a situation where it's good, expect your enemy to carry it around and spank you bad.
I've previously used all 4 different t2 ammo's, both pre-nerf and post-nerf, to great effect... And i love them.
Sometimes pvp just takes more than F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6...
Not an alt! Just in noob corp while taking a break! |
Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2007.04.30 08:43:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Frances Ducoir you dont get the point. regardless your stupid behaviour i'll explain it for you.
you talk about javelin beeing specialised for engaging larger targets.
your frig engaging a cruiser and using javelin will be certain DEAD due to the speed penalty. the bigger cruiser guns will rip you apart while you are crawling around with your javelin s loaded.
same with cruisers/bc versus bs. you are so slow, the bs guns will have a easy time hitting you.
there is no use for javelin except when it comes to stationary target which is ridiculous.
and of course it does less DoT. you can't do damage to something you cannot hit because it is out of range or your tracking is to slow.
please think before writing.
you can not say that speed is no issue in fights. speed is always an issue, just look on the snake implant prices and thats the reason why javelin is crap.
Well, regardless stupid behaviour me you can not say T2 ammo not specialised (for great justice).
Oh, and yes in 1v1s javelin might suck. So again, it's not supposed to be used 1v1 maybe? Fly in a fleet in a cruiser alongside BS and your crappy speed won't matter, since no-one will be shooting you anyway.
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Serj Darek
Minmatar Mentally Unstable Enterprises Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.30 10:09:00 -
[50]
It's called nerF not nerV.
First!
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Fon Revedhort
Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:25:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 30/04/2007 11:22:07
Originally by: Spenz Well at least im not the only one completely frustrated with Javelin. Is there any other T2 ammo as worthless as Javelin?
Try Gleam, it's just suicidal Prophecy/Absolution loaded with 6 gleams has over 600m in sig, loses all its shields, consumes cap like candy AND can't hit anything due to crappy optimal and tracking.
Seems it is a fair trade for additional 1\6 'theoretical' DPS.
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Decaro
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Posted - 2007.05.01 09:01:00 -
[52]
I just dont see how a different ammotype loaded in the guns make my alts Mega fly half as fast.... WTF is that? They need to slow down a Battleship weighing 102 thousand tonnes so it can fire its guns? Its a freaking joke the penalties on T2 ammo/missiles. They require quite alot of prereqs so they should be good, not full of penalties.
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