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MoonDragn
ZiTek
1
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:13:14 -
[1] - Quote
So I finally got into a Paladin and am trying level 4 missions. Last night I started a mission called the Assault from a level 4 agent and when I warped into the mission, I was hit hard by all the NPCs there.
My Paladin is configured for standard level 4 missions and for tanking I have a damage control unit II, 1 Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II. Plus I have the bastion module. So after barely escaping out of there with about 30% structure left, I went back to the station to put more tanking modules.
I put another Energized adaptive nano Membrane and removed one of my damage boost modules to put a kinetic hardener in.
Went back, and wow, still hitting me hard, in the time it takes me to get into optimal range I'm down to 10% hull and barely warped out again.
This time I went back and took out more modules for more tank, now I have 1 energized adaptive, 1 damage control, and 2 hardeners, kinetic and thermal to match the NPC dmg. I pretty much have 87% resist for kinetic and thermal and over 70 on the other stuff.
I even put on a micro jump drive so I can warp out of range to get some breathing room.
When I went back in, I immediately jumped 100 km away, noticed a few of the ships were still hitting me. HARD. what's going on?
This is not missile damage, it looks like lasers, and this stuff is hitting me for 150-200 dmg a hit. Where are my resistances? I put my Bastion module online and still take close to 150 damage a hit. What's going on?
Anyone have any ideas? My armor tanking related skills are mostly at V. With the exception of Armor layering which shouldn't be related.
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Exaido
Fire Over Light Those Infernal Machines
104
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:16:21 -
[2] - Quote
Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name.
These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy. |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
410
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:19:40 -
[3] - Quote
Are you using an armor repairer? Marauders are bonused for active tank, so that might help.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
1
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:20:29 -
[4] - Quote
Exaido wrote:Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name.
These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy.
Only for this mission (The Assault). Nothing has ever hit my paladin that hard before. Usually I turn the armor rep on and forget. The single nano membrane and damage control II usually does the trick. The NPCs in every mission so far hit me for like 20-30 dmg at the most. This is the first time I've been hit for over 150-200 dmg every shot from NPCs that don't miss. |
Tam Arai
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
126
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:23:37 -
[5] - Quote
you are turning on your hardeners? and bastion?
do you have a repper?
first room can be hard with about 15 battleships hitting you if you hit the trigger early
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3159
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:24:13 -
[6] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Exaido wrote:Is it one mission or several? I generally sail through missions on my Rattesnake. I grew very comfortable and then a couple of missions just devastated me because I wasn't being attentive. I had to warp out repair and go back in a few times. Unfortunately, I didn't note the mission name.
These weren't burner missions, they're a whole different animal and require a special set-up and strategy. Only for this mission (The Assault). Nothing has ever hit my paladin that hard before. Usually I turn the armor rep on and forget. The single nano membrane and damage control II usually does the trick. The NPCs in every mission so far hit me for like 20-30 dmg at the most. This is the first time I've been hit for over 150-200 dmg every shot from NPCs that don't miss.
Post the fit of what you used to fly and what you fly now. Then we might understand what is happening to help you out. |
Amojin
Entropic Synergies Research
79
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:25:22 -
[7] - Quote
This is only tangentially related to your topic, but I have a question, if you're just now starting L4's...
How long did it take you grinding 3's to afford a Paladin? |
Daerrol
Comms Black Initiative Mercenaries
309
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:29:11 -
[8] - Quote
I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? If so the first issue is they are shooting at the Paladin's Kinetic hole. Paladin ROCKS against EM/Thermal damage of Sansha and Blood Raiders. It struggles vs Gurista and Angel Kin and Explo respectively.
So you can drop a EANM II for a rat specific hardener. This should make a world of difference, even just a Tech 2. The mission against the EOM is another which hits the paladins weakness and can blast through you pretty hard.
Also consider picking up a C or B type large armor repairer. The CORE variety are easy on the Capacitor and cheap cheap. It's the only bling I use on a Paly.
Secondly you say it takes time to get into range? A paladin should be shooting wiht good damage up to 100KM. there's two main ways to do this:
1. Fit Tech 1 Tachyon Beam lasers, go Bastion. Bring MultiFrequency, and Standard crystals. Standard should hit out to edge of Lock Range. If not, bring Infrared or a lighter crystal while you train up Sharp Shooting.
2. Fit T2 Mega Beams with Scorch and TRacking Computers. Should hit out to 100KM with good skills. If not, see point #1.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3159
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:33:09 -
[9] - Quote
INB4 polarized fit just in case... |
MoonDragn
ZiTek
1
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:41:09 -
[10] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: Post the fit of what you used to fly and what you fly now. Then we might understand what is happening to help you out.
My normal fit:
high 4 Mega Pulse Laser IIs Scorch 1 auto target 1 heavy nosferatus II 1 bastion module
mid 500 nm microwarp drive 2 x Tracking computer II 1 Cap Recharger II
low
3 x Imperial Navy Heatsinks 1 Energized Adapative Nano Membrane II 1 Damage Control II 1 Capacitor power relay 1 Core C type armor repairer
Rig
2 x large energy collision accelerators
After taking damage, I removed the microwarp drive to put in micro jump drive, removed 1 navy heatsink and capactor power relay to put in 2 armor hardeners Thermal and Kinetic.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5906
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:41:48 -
[11] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? I'm wondering this as well. A reactive armor hardener will probably serve you better than the damage control. And has been mentioned, if you're not utilizing a large armor repairer this is probably why you're running into issues (Deadspace versions are currently very reasonable).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5906
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:47:14 -
[12] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:500 nm microwarp drive 2 x Tracking computer II 1 Cap Recharger II
3 x Imperial Navy Heatsinks 1 Energized Adapative Nano Membrane II 1 Damage Control II 1 Capacitor power relay 1 Core C type armor repairer
2 x large energy collision accelerators Get a Faction MWD (this sill save you 7-10% capacitor). A Domination one is under 30m ISK. Personally, I'd drop the T2 Cap Recharger and go with a T2 Heavy Capacitor Battery instead (or a T2 Sensor Booster). Drop the T2 Capacitor Power Relay as well and swap it out for a Reactive Armor Hardener (you don't need to be cap stable in a Marauder).
Insofar as the rigs go - ditch both of them (you're getting almost nothing from them with stacking penalties). Switch to a T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator and T1 Large Energy Locus Coordinator instead (this will give you a ~10% bump to your rate of fire and +15% to your tracking, and it will only cost you 20m ISK).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
1
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:49:46 -
[13] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:I'm guessing this is The Assault (Guristas)? If so the first issue is they are shooting at the Paladin's Kinetic hole. Paladin ROCKS against EM/Thermal damage of Sansha and Blood Raiders. It struggles vs Gurista and Angel Kin and Explo respectively.
So you can drop a EANM II for a rat specific hardener. This should make a world of difference, even just a Tech 2. The mission against the EOM is another which hits the paladins weakness and can blast through you pretty hard.
Also consider picking up a C or B type large armor repairer. The CORE variety are easy on the Capacitor and cheap cheap. It's the only bling I use on a Paly.
Secondly you say it takes time to get into range? A paladin should be shooting wiht good damage up to 100KM. there's two main ways to do this:
1. Fit Tech 1 Tachyon Beam lasers, go Bastion. Bring MultiFrequency, and Standard crystals. Standard should hit out to edge of Lock Range. If not, bring Infrared or a lighter crystal while you train up Sharp Shooting.
2. Fit T2 Mega Beams with Scorch and TRacking Computers. Should hit out to 100KM with good skills. If not, see point #1.
EDIT What is your Marauders skill at? You should get it to 4 ASAP for more armor repair amount!
This is the Assault with the laser NPCs. The names escape me right now. I have no kinetic hole, my kinetic resistance is at 87% I do have a C type repper
The gate drops you at 10km range to the rats, I was trying to get farther away to shoot at the frigates that were jamming me.
My maurader skill is at I but should be at II or III by tonight.
I'm using scorch and conflag crystals not having problems hitting them, just not at 100km. I start doing dmg at around 80km My sharp shooting skill is at V as are all of my laser related skills except for advanced weapons upgrades V.
PS> I'm not having problems hitting them, they are just doing more damage than usual, way more damage. I thought the paly is supposed to have no problems tanking level 4 mission NPCs? |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5906
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:51:42 -
[14] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:This is the Assault with the laser NPCs. The names escape me right now. I have no kinetic hole, my kinetic resistance is at 87% I do have a C type repper
The gate drops you at 10km range to the rats, I was trying to get farther away to shoot at the frigates that were jamming me.
My maurader skill is at I but should be at II or III by tonight.
I'm using scorch and conflag crystals not having problems hitting them, just not at 100km. I start doing dmg at around 80km My sharp shooting skill is at V as are all of my laser related skills except for advanced weapons upgrades V. You should be using drones for anything under 20km. And if Marauders is only @ I, that's definitely part of the problem (you want III-IV minimum and ideally V). You know you can skip the first gate in Assault, right?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
1
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:54:39 -
[15] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: You should be using drones for anything under 20km. And if Marauders is only @ I, that's definitely part of the problem (you want III-IV minimum and ideally V). You know you can skip the first gate in Assault, right?
I am using drones for anything under 20km, I was trying to move out of jamming range so I can target them.
The marauder skill should have only affect the repper. Should not affect my damage resist. These NPCs are hitting sometimes for 250 dmg against 87% resist... that seems kind of off to me.
Yes I know you can skip the first gate, but I like to try to kill everything. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5906
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:57:04 -
[16] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Yes I know you can skip the first gate, but I like to try to kill everything. Invest in a Large Micro Jump Drive to pull range. Unless you dual-web anything orbiting you'll never hit it with large guns (even large pulse lasers).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
1
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Posted - 2017.03.07 15:57:36 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: Get a Faction MWD (this sill save you 7-10% capacitor). A Domination one is under 30m ISK. Personally, I'd drop the T2 Cap Recharger and go with a T2 Heavy Capacitor Battery instead (or a T2 Sensor Booster). Drop the T2 Capacitor Power Relay as well and swap it out for a Reactive Armor Hardener (you don't need to be cap stable in a Marauder).
Insofar as the rigs go - ditch both of them (you're getting almost nothing from them with stacking penalties). Switch to a T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator and T1 Large Energy Locus Coordinator instead (this will give you a ~10% bump to your rate of fire and +15% to your tracking, and it will only cost you 20m ISK).
Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5906
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:[Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones. Yes, they are stacking penalized - which is why you want a single T2 version. Rate of fire will trump damage and is the cheaper option.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
434
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:04:07 -
[19] - Quote
I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5906
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:06:09 -
[20] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank. Marauder I. Explains a lot.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
8
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:12:06 -
[21] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:I've no idea how quickly you are getting into structure but if it takes some time it's likely your reps are barely unable to keep up with incoming dps. Could always just fit a T2 rep as well and pulse that as needed, after a few enemy ships drop the incoming dps will be lower and easier on your tank.
My rep is fine when there are only a few hitting me, but they should not be hitting me for 150-200+ a hit, I saw a video on the same mission and the guy was getting hit for 25-30 dmg with less tank than I've got. |
MoonDragn
ZiTek
8
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:16:21 -
[22] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:MoonDragn wrote:[Do the energy colliders not stack with the heatsinks? My DPS goes up when I have them in. vs without. by almost 400 dps... Im getting over 1k dps with conflag and drones. Yes, they are stacking penalized - which is why you want a single T2 version. Rate of fire will trump damage and is the cheaper option. And no, you are mistaken if you think having them is increasing your DPS by 400...
Maybe not, but they are tech II rigs, and the fittings tab shows 650ish dps without them and 1000+ dps with. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5912
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:18:48 -
[23] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:My rep is fine when there are only a few hitting me, but they should not be hitting me for 150-200+ a hit, I saw a video on the same mission and the guy was getting hit for 25-30 dmg with less tank than I've got. I'm going to theorize that perhaps some of your core skills maybe aren't where they need to be. I can get well over 1200 DPS utilizing Conflag on my Paladin fit, and I rarely need to utilize more than a single Deadspace larger armor repairer. So the short answer to your question is: Yes, you are doing it wrong.
MoonDragn wrote:Maybe not, but they are tech II rigs, and the fittings tab shows 650ish dps without them and 1000+ dps with Not a chance in h*ll, sorry. From Pyfa, V skills, no implants and T2 Mega Pulse Lasers with Conflag L: * Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks: 1083 DPS GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 2x T1 Large Energy Collision Accelerator: 1126 DPS (+43 DPS or +3.9%) GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 1x T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator: 1171 DPS (+88 DPS or +8.1%)
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
9
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:27:04 -
[24] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote: I'm going to theorize that perhaps some of your core skills maybe aren't where they need to be. I can get well over 1200 DPS utilizing Conflag on my Paladin fit, and I rarely need to utilize more than a single Deadspace larger armor repairer. So the short answer to your question is: Yes, you are doing it wrong.
But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me?
Every other level 4 mission I've been in they barely hit me for 50 dmg if ever at the most. Most of the time I don't even need to turn on t he repper.
I don't know which core skill I'm missing... Here are my laser weapon skills:
Gunnery V Large Energy Turret V Large Pulse Laser Specialization IV Motion Prediction V Rapid Firing V Sharpshooter V Surgical Strike V Trajectory Analysis V Advanced Weapon Upgrades V
Arthur Aihaken wrote: Not a chance in h*ll, sorry. From Pyfa, V skills, no implants and T2 Mega Pulse Lasers with Conflag L: * Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks: 1083 DPS GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 2x T1 Large Energy Collision Accelerator: 1126 DPS (+43 DPS or +3.9%) GÇó Paladin 3x Faction heat sinks and 1x T2 Large Energy Burst Aerator: 1171 DPS (+88 DPS or +8.1%)
Hmm, I'll post my dps screenshot tonight if I can. I might have to pull out the collision accelerators to put in the burst aerator like you said. Also I think I might only have 1 accelerator, the other one is the aerator. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5920
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:29:57 -
[25] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me? Because the Assault mission is very hard hitting, and if you manage to activate all the triggers you can end up with close to 3000 incoming DPS. eve-survival.org is your friend - you may want to check out some of the missions beforehand.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
9
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:32:34 -
[26] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:MoonDragn wrote:But the question of the thread is why are they hitting me so hard on this mission when the other level 4s are barely hurting me? Because the Assault mission is very hard hitting, and if you hit all the triggers you can end up with close to 3000 incoming DPS. eve-survival.org is your friend - you may want to check out some of the missions beforehand.
Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference.
BTW, I only just came back to EVE again a few weeks ago. Been playing off and on for 13 years now. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5921
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:36:52 -
[27] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference. Well, there are a few others... Damsel, the 'Enemy' series, Pirate Invasion, Gone Beserk...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
9
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:39:48 -
[28] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:MoonDragn wrote:Ahhh, so it is the mission only! That explains it. I did read eve-survival before I entered. I thought I was prepared for it but I guess I wasn't expecting so much of a difference. Well, there are a few others... Damsel, the 'Enemy' series, Pirate Invasion, Gone Beserk...
thanks I'll keep that in mind. In the mean time, I think I'll carry an extra repper to keep up with the damage until my maurader skill gets to IV. I could just skip everything and go to the final gate, but what would be the fun in that? I'm going back in tonight to clear everything out.
Amojin wrote:This is only tangentially related to your topic, but I have a question, if you're just now starting L4's...
How long did it take you grinding 3's to afford a Paladin?
Sorry I kind of took the shortcut. They were having a 3 Plex sale a few weeks ago and I took advantage of it to buy the package and sold the plex to get out of my APOC to fly the Paladin. I've had the APOC since after the first 6 months of Eve and these missions didn't seem that bad back in my APOC when I did them years ago. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5923
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:49:49 -
[29] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:thanks I'll keep that in mind. In the mean time, I think I'll carry an extra repper to keep up with the damage until my maurader skill gets to IV. I could just skip everything and go to the final gate, but what would be the fun in that? I'm going back in tonight to clear everything out. Trust me, after the 1001st time... skipping the gate and blitzing Assault is the only way to do it...
MoonDragn wrote:Sorry I kind of took the shortcut. They were having a 3 Plex sale a few weeks ago and I took advantage of it to buy the package and sold the plex to get out of my APOC to fly the Paladin. I've had the APOC since after the first 6 months of Eve and these missions didn't seem that bad back in my APOC when I did them years ago. Moving up to a Paladin was definitely the right choice (regardless of how you got there). Definitely focus on getting to Marauder V and you will notice a night-and-day difference in performance. There's a reason why most players blitz or skip the most gruelling missions, and that is because you can fit more gank and less tank.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
9
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Posted - 2017.03.07 16:58:07 -
[30] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Moving up to a Paladin was definitely the right choice (regardless of how you got there). Definitely focus on getting to Marauder V and you will notice a night-and-day difference in performance. There's a reason why most players blitz or skip the most gruelling missions, and that is because you can fit more gank and less tank.
hmmm well the assault mission reward is only about 1 mil plus 1 mil bonus. Not really worth doing really, but I thought maybe since they are hitting so hard maybe they drop some good loot.
Plus the bounty on some of these guys are like 10 mil each so probably worth it to clear it instead of blitzing it. |
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