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Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
17
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Posted - 2017.03.08 15:46:28 -
[61] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Yeah the reason I don't use Tachyon beams is that I never trained large beam weapon specalization yet.
Also I thought about both MWD and MJD and I liked the tracking computer better.
Otherwise your setup is not much different than mine. I prefer damage control II because it adds a lot of passive resists without much in the way of cpu/power/cap etc. As I mentioned earlier, the reactive armor is not going to help when you kill stuff so fast. But if the fight drags on I can see where it would come in handy.
If you prefer Mega Pulse just swap them out. The lower cap use means you can run the MWD for awhile to close range if you need to. I don't change anything else.
A DCII is 15% resists (no stack penalty). An EANM is 25% resists but has a penalty. 2x EANM > EANM+DC
2xEANM+RAH > 2xEANM+DC, unless you're taking all four damage types. But if you're taking 1 type it's twice as good, if 2 types it's a little better. DCs are great for boosting your total EHP in PVP. In PVE you are looking for sustained tanking ability more than EHP total. That's why there's no plates or extenders on active PVE tank mission runners.
As far as a tracking computer, or target painter or web, if you can't hit it with Mega Pulse + Conflagration + Bastion, then the frigate/destoryer is too close, and you should be using your drones on it. You can hit cruisers reliably with Mega Pulse + Conflag + Bastion. If there's a cloud of small ships around you that you can't hit, MWD in a line to lower their transversal, or just MJD and pop them as they come at you, then MJD back.
I only listed the RAH in the fit because it sounds like you have a good chance of ******* up the trigger. If you're confident you won't **** up the trigger, then just 2xEANM is fine.
Oh, and my fit is faction everything. A-type MWD, navy cap rechargers, X-type LAR, navy EANMs, navy heat sinks. You're in billion-isk marauder now--don't disgrace that golden hull by flying it like a poor. :) |
MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.08 15:48:37 -
[62] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Except Guristas don't deal explosive damage... Mainly kinetic with some thermal. So there's no way plugging your explosive hole would've helped. Damage control, EANM, reactive harmor hardener and any kinetic membranes or hardeners would've helped.
Insofar as the Aerator is concerned, it's +8% DPS. Entirely up to you whether or not having cap stability is worth the tradeoff.
Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types:
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php
I started out with Damage Control, EANM and the reactive hardener like you said. It helped, but it did not reduce all the damage. I was taking 100+ damage from missiles.
After the explosive hardeners were installed, those damages were reduced but not completely removed. They may be using all different missile types. If the loot reflects what they are firing at me, they dropped cruise missiles of all different types.
I had also tested out the tanking with the thermal hardeners, and they are definitely doing thermal damage as well. However the Reactive Armor gravitates to Kinetic almost exclusively because that is the highest damage type. |
Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
17
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Posted - 2017.03.08 15:56:13 -
[63] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Except Guristas don't deal explosive damage... Mainly kinetic with some thermal. So there's no way plugging your explosive hole would've helped. Damage control, EANM, reactive harmor hardener and any kinetic membranes or hardeners would've helped.
Insofar as the Aerator is concerned, it's +8% DPS. Entirely up to you whether or not having cap stability is worth the tradeoff. Not according to the chart I'm looking at. They are listed as doing all 4 damage types: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/damage_types.php I started out with Damage Control, EANM and the reactive hardener like you said. It helped, but it did not reduce all the damage. I was taking 100+ damage from missiles. After the explosive hardeners were installed, those damages were reduced but not completely removed. They may be using all different missile types.
The Guristas in The Assault will slam you with scourge missile after scourge missile. If you put on a Reactive Armor Hardener it will slam over to 60% KN resist because that's pretty much all you're taking.
2xEANM + 1xRAH. If you can't tank the pocket with an X-Type LAR in Bastion with those resist mods, you need to stop shooting the trigger in group 2 first.
You can kill group 1 and 3 without aggroing Group 2. (Group 1 is closest, Group 3 is farthest. Both groups have elite frigs in them.) Just target the close elite frigs and shoot them. Now kill everything that aggros. Now shoot the far away frigs and kill everything that aggros. Now kill the cruisers in group 2. All you have left is battleships now. Look at how they are flying; one will usually be flying a little different than the rest--that's probably the trigger. Shoot a different one. If you pick wrong, the first shot spawns reinforcements. As long as you killed group 1 & 3 already, you should be fine, especially with the above tank.
Note that if you just kill group 3 the mission is over. |
Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
17
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 16:42:53 -
[64] - Quote
Takh Meir'noen wrote:MoonDragn wrote:Yeah the reason I don't use Tachyon beams is that I never trained large beam weapon specalization yet.
Also I thought about both MWD and MJD and I liked the tracking computer better.
Otherwise your setup is not much different than mine. I prefer damage control II because it adds a lot of passive resists without much in the way of cpu/power/cap etc. As I mentioned earlier, the reactive armor is not going to help when you kill stuff so fast. But if the fight drags on I can see where it would come in handy. If you prefer Mega Pulse just swap them out. The lower cap use means you can run the MWD for awhile to close range if you need to. I don't change anything else. A DCII is 15% resists (no stack penalty). An EANM is 25% resists but has a penalty. 2x EANM > EANM+DC 2xEANM+RAH > 2xEANM+DC, unless you're taking all four damage types. But if you're taking 1 type it's twice as good, if 2 types it's a little better. DCs are great for boosting your total EHP in PVP. In PVE you are looking for sustained tanking ability more than EHP total. That's why there's no plates or extenders on active PVE tank mission runners. As far as a tracking computer, or target painter or web, if you can't hit it with Mega Pulse + Multifrequency + Bastion, then the frigate/destoryer is too close, and you should be using your drones on it. You can hit cruisers reliably with Mega Pulse + Bastion. If there's a cloud of small ships around you that you can't hit, MWD in a line to lower their transversal, or just MJD and pop them as they come at you, then MJD back. I only listed the RAH in the fit because it sounds like you have a good chance of ******* up the trigger. If you're confident you won't **** up the trigger, then just 2xEANM is fine. Oh, and my fit is faction everything. X-type MWD, navy cap rechargers, X-type LAR, navy EANMs, navy heat sinks. You're in billion-isk marauder now--don't disgrace that golden hull by flying it like a poor. :)
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1617
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Posted - 2017.03.08 17:11:14 -
[65] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:elitatwo wrote:If those NPCs were called Pith they were Guristas, Sansha's Nation are called Centus or Centis, Serpentis are called Corelum or Coreli, Blood Raider are called Corpum or Corpi, angel cartel are called Gist or Gisti and Rogue Drones are called Alvus or Alvi. And Mordus are called Mordus. You forgot Pithi, Pithum, Centum, Core, Corpus, Gistum and Alvum - as well as EoM. And drones are still more annoying than anything else. That Paladin fit doesn't have enough capacitor. Needs more capacitor...
Well, the point was those NPCs all have similar names so you can differentiate between them. And as far as I know, there is only one level 4 mission with EoM which is "Gone Beserk".
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1617
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Posted - 2017.03.08 17:14:39 -
[66] - Quote
Takh Meir'noen wrote:...Oh, and my fit is faction everything. X-type MWD, navy cap rechargers, X-type LAR, navy EANMs, navy heat sinks. You're in billion-isk marauder now--don't disgrace that golden hull by flying it like a poor. :)
It's deadspace, not faction.
The modules with the blue icon are deadspace and the dark-green ones are faction. And those x-type modules are not that expensive anymore.
They should be even cheaper for you now since they can drop all over Catch all day long.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5949
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 17:26:40 -
[67] - Quote
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=Assault4gu Guristas don't do EM or explosive damage. Maybe you're thinking of Angels...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.08 18:20:15 -
[68] - Quote
If that is true, then the variance I am seeing is probably from me using the Microwarp drive towards the guristas. Maybe the extra speed and sig is increasing the damage. |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
755
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Posted - 2017.03.08 20:32:12 -
[69] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:If that is true, then the variance I am seeing is probably from me using the Microwarp drive towards the guristas. Maybe the extra speed and sig is increasing the damage. Speed reduces incoming damage by some measure. The amount varies depending on what sort of attack is hitting you and what the variables in that attack are. But by general rule of thumb speed = good. However, MWD increase your signature radius which makes you take more damage from those attacks, so the benefit of speed is negated by that signature bloom.
As others have stated, and I myself did in the last post I did in this thread, Guristas are going to hit you with a LOT of kinetic damage, and some therm. There will not be any explosive or EM damage in this mission. I reassert my previous advice for tanking this mission, two x-type kinetic hardeners and one x-type thermal. They're cheap and you'll get your money's worth out of them as you mission frequently, I promise.
I will also reassert my previous advice in regards to your mids. If you're using Tachys on that Paladin, a sensor booster and some tracking computers will allow you to hit everything in the room (use x-ray crystals and don't be afraid to shoot into some falloff range). You don't need the MWD for that mission - you can hit all NPC's from where you land and there's no travel time to any gates. So, if you're using the MWD you've already done something wrong because you never needed it in this mission. Worry about MWD in other missions, just get through this one for now.
Quick tips for this mission (assuming NON-blitz, killing as much as you can for bounties)- 1: Land in first room. Lock all targets in your immediate area. Locate the battleship with highest bounty, move that target lock to a different location on your HUD so you don't immediately fire upon him. Kill everything in your immediate area, and that BS last. Hitting him triggers a reinforcement wave. 2: Kill the reinforcement wave, which spawns about 100km away. With your tackys, tracking computers, and sensor booster, you can immediately fire upon and start killing those targets. 3: After that wave is dead, you should have some elite cruisers that haven't noticed you yet. Fry them then activate the acceleration gate. 4: When you land in the second room, target the farthest enemy from you. Fire upon him. Take note of every enemy that is now aggroing you. They're all part of the same spawn group. Lock them all up and kill them. That finishes the mission. The remaining groups you can attack and kill at your leisure, and if it gets too hot, just turn in the mission and be done with it.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.08 21:00:55 -
[70] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:MoonDragn wrote:If that is true, then the variance I am seeing is probably from me using the Microwarp drive towards the guristas. Maybe the extra speed and sig is increasing the damage. Speed reduces incoming damage by some measure. The amount varies depending on what sort of attack is hitting you and what the variables in that attack are. But by general rule of thumb speed = good. However, MWD increase your signature radius which makes you take more damage from those attacks, so the benefit of speed is negated by that signature bloom. As others have stated, and I myself did in the last post I did in this thread, Guristas are going to hit you with a LOT of kinetic damage, and some therm. There will not be any explosive or EM damage in this mission. I reassert my previous advice for tanking this mission, two x-type kinetic hardeners and one x-type thermal. They're cheap and you'll get your money's worth out of them as you mission frequently, I promise. I will also reassert my previous advice in regards to your mids. If you're using Tachys on that Paladin, a sensor booster and some tracking computers will allow you to hit everything in the room (use x-ray crystals and don't be afraid to shoot into some falloff range). You don't need the MWD for that mission - you can hit all NPC's from where you land and there's no travel time to any gates. So, if you're using the MWD you've already done something wrong because you never needed it in this mission. Worry about MWD in other missions, just get through this one for now. Quick tips for this mission (assuming NON-blitz, killing as much as you can for bounties)- 1: Land in first room. Lock all targets in your immediate area. Locate the battleship with highest bounty, move that target lock to a different location on your HUD so you don't immediately fire upon him. Kill everything in your immediate area, and that BS last. Hitting him triggers a reinforcement wave. 2: Kill the reinforcement wave, which spawns about 100km away. With your tackys, tracking computers, and sensor booster, you can immediately fire upon and start killing those targets. 3: After that wave is dead, you should have some elite cruisers that haven't noticed you yet. Fry them then activate the acceleration gate. 4: When you land in the second room, target the farthest enemy from you. Fire upon him. Take note of every enemy that is now aggroing you. They're all part of the same spawn group. Lock them all up and kill them. That finishes the mission. The remaining groups you can attack and kill at your leisure, and if it gets too hot, just turn in the mission and be done with it.
Yeah, right now my pulse lasers have a fall off range of about 70km and optimal to about 60km with the optimal range script and the locus using Scorch L crystals. Using the MWD is for closing in on those battlecruisers with the missiles that are kiting my Paladin around. Since I have a much shorter falloff than the Tachyons, I have to use this method. Or I can wait a few days to train up tachyons....
The extra damage I was referring to from extra speed is from missiles, which increase damage based on the speed in which they hit their target. If I'm going towards the shooter, it probably increases.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
755
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Posted - 2017.03.08 22:32:17 -
[71] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Yeah, right now my pulse lasers have a fall off range of about 70km and optimal to about 60km with the optimal range script and the locus using Scorch L crystals. Using the MWD is for closing in on those battlecruisers with the missiles that are kiting my Paladin around. Since I have a much shorter falloff than the Tachyons, I have to use this method. Or I can wait a few days to train up tachyons....
The extra damage I was referring to from extra speed is from missiles, which increase damage based on the speed in which they hit their target. If I'm going towards the shooter, it probably increases.
Missiles do not increase damage from the speed of which they impact target. In fact they have an "explosion velocity", which via a complex formula, they do less damage as the |absolute speed| of a target increases. So if you fly straight at an enemy missile or straight away from it, it doesn't make a difference.
What DOES make a difference is your signature radius. Remember I told you that using the MWD blooms your sig by a factor of five. So you'll definitely take more damage from missiles because of that.
If you're taking turret fire, at that point your direction of travel relative to the source of the fire, becomes very important. You want to maximize your relative traversal movement in respect to the target, so it's more difficult for him to hit you.
Also, you don't need tech II tachys. They're nice, but if you have enough sp in the baseline skill (large energy turret) to use pulses, you can do enough damage with beams to skate by. It'll be slower and tougher if you're lacking Tech II, but it's also tougher to face-tank more enemy fire by being in brawling range.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5954
|
Posted - 2017.03.08 22:44:53 -
[72] - Quote
What's tougher for Guristas Assault than whether or not you have T2 beams is applying EM/thermal damage to Guristas when they're weakest to kinetic...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
755
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Posted - 2017.03.08 22:50:09 -
[73] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:What's tougher for Guristas Assault than whether or not you have T2 beams is applying EM/thermal damage to Guristas when they're weakest to kinetic... Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5954
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Posted - 2017.03.08 22:51:34 -
[74] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that. With a Paladin vs. Guristas on Assault... blitz the sucker.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Takh Meir'noen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
18
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Posted - 2017.03.09 06:25:59 -
[75] - Quote
I disagree on needing to blitz it. Paladin kills them just fine. What it lacks in optimal damage type it makes up for it with excellent application.
To the OUZA guy, I know the difference between faction and deadspace modules. I was telling the OP if he didn't have an X-Type LAR fit he needs to stop flying a Marauder like a poor.
Anyway, bastion + 2 eanm + rah = you basically can't die most L4s. Marauders don't need specific resists. |
MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 14:50:17 -
[76] - Quote
Well, no more further tests. I put some implants in last night and replaced the loci with the cap rig and came back and the mission instance was gone. Guess someone else cleared it.
The next mission I got was the burner hawk mission so back to Jita I went to pick up a kestrel. Although I am lousy at mssiles. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5968
|
Posted - 2017.03.09 15:07:06 -
[77] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Well, no more further tests. I put some implants in last night and replaced the loci with the cap rig and came back and the mission instance was gone. Guess someone else cleared it.
The next mission I got was the burner hawk mission so back to Jita I went to pick up a kestrel. Although I am lousy at mssiles Missions will occasionally get gimped after downtime if you've cleared the objectives. Otherwise they re-spawn. Forget missiles - boring as sin (you're not missing anything). Autocannons for the win!
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.09 15:13:18 -
[78] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:MoonDragn wrote:Well, no more further tests. I put some implants in last night and replaced the loci with the cap rig and came back and the mission instance was gone. Guess someone else cleared it.
The next mission I got was the burner hawk mission so back to Jita I went to pick up a kestrel. Although I am lousy at mssiles Missions will occasionally get gimped after downtime if you've cleared the objectives. Otherwise they re-spawn. Forget missiles - boring as sin (you're not missing anything). Autocannons for the win!
My autocannon skills are a little better than missiles but for the burner hawk mission I think it is safer to stay at long range to avoid the web. Never tried it before going in tonight to see if I can win. From what I've read it will be hard to even hit this thing.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5977
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Posted - 2017.03.10 07:06:05 -
[79] - Quote
How long did that take you in a Kestrel? I usually opt for the Polarized Garmur.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.10 14:40:03 -
[80] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:How long did that take you in a Kestrel? I usually opt for the Polarized Garmur.
First try I did not bring any jammers, so I gave up after 10 mins of kiting. Went back to refit with more dps and a gravimetric jammer. Took about 25-30 mins to kill after that. |
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5993
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Posted - 2017.03.10 20:47:50 -
[81] - Quote
Yes, if you MWD orbit at 25-30km they can't hit you. So it then comes down to applying the most effective damage. The universal Team Garmur fit seems to be ideal although I'm always on the lookout for something better...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy Caldari State
50
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Posted - 2017.03.10 21:15:24 -
[82] - Quote
You could also drop down to a Gallente or Caldari HAC or command ship. All four of those have natural kinetic and thermal resists, and a lot of them. The HAC can run around with diminished MWD sig bloom, which makes a lot of difference against big missiles. The command ships can seriously reduce incoming damage with afterburners, because torpedoes have really bad damage application. |
MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.10 22:57:13 -
[83] - Quote
Funny thing... I never learned Minmatar or Gallente frigate skills...
Anyway, the Kestrel was a cheap option. Relatively safe. My missile skills aren't that great so probably could do it faster with maxed skills. Using Mojanor missiles applied EM dmg which the burner hawk and bantams were weak to. Although the armor resists on those were higher so if you wanted you could switch to nova missiles. I didn't bother because it was going down pretty fast already. |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2638
|
Posted - 2017.03.12 04:26:28 -
[84] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Khan Wrenth wrote:Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that. With a Paladin vs. Guristas on Assault... blitz the sucker. mwd crash the gate in the first room, once in the second room mjd into the far group, and melt with conflag. 1300 em/therm dps is enough that damage type doesn't really matter. a roughly 6 min mission, hardly seems what ship you use unless you really want to get the time down to the seconds, I've used mach, kronos, paladin, nightmare, vindicator, all do it nice and quick.
@ChainsawPlankto
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1626
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Posted - 2017.03.12 09:25:44 -
[85] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Khan Wrenth wrote:Indeed, but I'm working with what I've got. What I've got is a man with a Paladin. I'd much rather Kronos that mission, but I already mentioned that. With a Paladin vs. Guristas on Assault... blitz the sucker. mwd crash the gate in the first room, once in the second room mjd into the far group, and melt with conflag. 1300 em/therm dps is enough that damage type doesn't really matter. a roughly 6 min mission, hardly seems what ship you use unless you really want to get the time down to the seconds, I've used mach, kronos, paladin, nightmare, vindicator, all do it nice and quick.
Hey do you know why you want to "blitz" that and leave all that isk behind?
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.13 15:32:36 -
[86] - Quote
I got the assault mission again and this time I was prepared. Did both rooms pretty fast with no problems. It helps that my Marauder skill is at III now my tank has stabilized. A few extra implants also helped the dps. I still like to clear the whole room though for the bounty and the salvage.
Now I'm stuck on a burner Dremiel mission. So far I've lost a succubus, vengeance and daredevil. All recommended fits from the burner thread. Going to try the succubus again tonight. I hope my shield tanking skills are up to par. |
Flitz Farseeker
Mass HaVoK KAOS Unlimited
35
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Posted - 2017.03.13 16:25:48 -
[87] - Quote
MoonDragn wrote:Now I'm stuck on a burner Dremiel mission. So far I've lost a succubus, vengeance and daredevil. All recommended fits from the burner thread. Going to try the succubus again tonight. I hope my shield tanking skills are up to par. Did you know that you can skip these missions without taking a standings hit? If you don't have the skills (in-game and out) and the right ship and fittings, they can be very challenging.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
12
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Posted - 2017.03.13 16:29:27 -
[88] - Quote
Flitz Farseeker wrote:MoonDragn wrote:Now I'm stuck on a burner Dremiel mission. So far I've lost a succubus, vengeance and daredevil. All recommended fits from the burner thread. Going to try the succubus again tonight. I hope my shield tanking skills are up to par. Did you know that you can skip these missions without taking a standings hit? If you don't have the skills (in-game and out) and the right ship and fittings, they can be very challenging.
Why would I want to skip them? The point is to have a challenge doing these missions. If they were not challenging then missions would become a grind. |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
6060
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 13:10:34 -
[89] - Quote
Once you have the right ship and ideal fit, Burner missions quickly become a grind like anything else.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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MoonDragn
ZiTek
13
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Posted - 2017.03.15 14:21:18 -
[90] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Once you have the right ship and ideal fit, Burner missions quickly become a grind like anything else.
Yeah it is a grind if you let it be. But try different setups and see if you can improve on it.
I tinkered with the Paladin and now I'm flying through assault killing everything in a very short time. Doing really nice DPS now and no problems tanking at all.
I did more burner missions too, did another team one with the kestrel, slow but still works. Now I'm configuring a Garmur to see if I can speed it up. |
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