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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
93
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Posted - 2017.03.11 22:11:40 -
[91] - Quote
With the disparate groups of Sani Sabik out there I would see little more in political fiefdoms then domination of the cluster.
However, I have come across a few individuals who espoused a secret governments under the influence of Sani Sabik sects. Those who principally relied the power that ISK has.
As a result you don't have the CONCORD mandated models, but rather some lurking in the hallowed halls of those ivory towers held dear by each faction.
This goes back to the earlier discussions about Revan and Silas, two Sani Sabik who essentially operated without fear of faction or Alliance. They are certainly worth the study beyond their combat records.
Obviously in studying their successes, one must also study why they no longer exists.
My teachers, successful in the ways of the Sani Sabik were also mindful of such "secret societies" and I think that is what concerned them the most. When some sort of neophyte would make mentioned of the, they would be easily dismissed and the tone of the conversation would change.
Considering their own personal concerns of my teachers. They suspected that there was something more sinister than they hidden somewhere in the dark. Though the evidence for such was elusive.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3097
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Posted - 2017.03.11 22:11:55 -
[92] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:The world being ruled by people who thought power was the only thing that really mattered would be just kind of sad. The chief aim of man is to glorify God and be with him forever in Paradise. I don't know why you still think that power is the only thing that matters to me; it means very little, really.
Well, you practice what you, yourself, have declared to be a hybrid of Sani Sabik and Amarr, after all, Mr. Nauplius.
It's a little unique to you and your followers, and what otherwise seems to be kind of a common thread to other Sani cults seems to maybe kind of get lost in yours. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
93
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Posted - 2017.03.11 22:19:19 -
[93] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:The world being ruled by people who thought power was the only thing that really mattered would be just kind of sad. The chief aim of man is to glorify God and be with him forever in Paradise. I don't know why you still think that power is the only thing that matters to me; it means very little, really.
I would be very interested in your thoughts regarding this topic. After you had some strong opinions.
Perhaps you have changed your mind about Empress Jamyl?
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Alia Nadasdy
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2017.03.12 18:21:12 -
[94] - Quote
Jamyl Sarum The first and only Empress !!!!
"We are the Harbingers of hope, We are the Sword of the Righteous"
"We are a shadow of the former greatness of the Empire"
Purist Lord Admiral Victor
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
93
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Posted - 2017.03.13 00:19:13 -
[95] - Quote
Are you implying that she will resurrect again in time of Empire's need?
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
728
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Posted - 2017.03.13 00:45:46 -
[96] - Quote
I have not changed my opinion. The Whore of Sarum burns in Hell for her sins of manumission and failure to Reclaim. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
2089
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Posted - 2017.03.13 04:08:00 -
[97] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:Are you implying that she will resurrect again in time of Empire's need?
Somehow I imagined that there is a hidden deadspace complex somewhere that houses an outpost-shrine holding rows of cryo-pods containing the frozen bodies of Empress Jamyl Sarum. On each and every pod there will be a pick, a hammer, and a sign that reads, "Break glass in time of the Empire's greatest need".
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
93
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Posted - 2017.03.13 22:36:45 -
[98] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:I have not changed my opinion. The Whore of Sarum burns in Hell for her sins of manumission and failure to Reclaim.
I sense disappointment should she ever return.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2027
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Posted - 2017.03.14 20:54:00 -
[99] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Historically I've been under the impression that you actually agreed with most of my conclusions-- just, that you feel that's how your god wants humans to live, even if it means suffering the same kind of turmoil and collapse the Takmahl did.
Well, consider the Scriptures.
"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
"Which test reveals more of the soul, the test that a man will take to prove his faith, or the test that finds the man who believed his faith already proven? If you know this answer, then you also know which of these challenges bear the greatest penalty for failure."
One could quite easily say that the collapse of the Takmahl Empire, was due to a collective failure of the Takmahl to strive for real greatness.
By contenting themselves with relatively petty power struggles, they neglected to, oh I don't know, construct an orbital laser based asteroid defence network.
And lo, the Hammer of God, struck them down for their hubris.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
93
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Posted - 2017.03.14 22:30:31 -
[100] - Quote
I am wondering with all the Sani Sabik organizations that out there in New Eden, could organize.
In many ways the Scriptures reflect the state we are in now.
It is something to think about.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2656
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Posted - 2017.03.15 07:26:31 -
[101] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:With the disparate groups of Sani Sabik out there I would see little more in political fiefdoms then domination of the cluster.
However, I have come across a few individuals who espoused a secret governments under the influence of Sani Sabik sects. Those who principally relied the power that ISK has.
As a result you don't have the CONCORD mandated models, but rather some lurking in the hallowed halls of those ivory towers held dear by each faction.
This goes back to the earlier discussions about Revan and Silas, two Sani Sabik who essentially operated without fear of faction or Alliance. They are certainly worth the study beyond their combat records.
Obviously in studying their successes, one must also study why they no longer exists.
My teachers, successful in the ways of the Sani Sabik were also mindful of such "secret societies" and I think that is what concerned them the most. When some sort of neophyte would make mentioned of the, they would be easily dismissed and the tone of the conversation would change.
Considering their own personal concerns of my teachers. They suspected that there was something more sinister than they hidden somewhere in the dark. Though the evidence for such was elusive.
Sure, Revan Neferis used to go around telling people that she was all about secret government influence etc.
But both you and she seem to have missed the point that secrets cease to be secret the moment you advertise them.
Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3109
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Posted - 2017.03.15 15:51:09 -
[102] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Historically I've been under the impression that you actually agreed with most of my conclusions-- just, that you feel that's how your god wants humans to live, even if it means suffering the same kind of turmoil and collapse the Takmahl did. Well, consider the Scriptures. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." "Which test reveals more of the soul, the test that a man will take to prove his faith, or the test that finds the man who believed his faith already proven? If you know this answer, then you also know which of these challenges bear the greatest penalty for failure." One could quite easily say that the collapse of the Takmahl Empire, was due to a collective failure of the Takmahl to strive for real greatness. By contenting themselves with relatively petty power struggles, they neglected to, oh I don't know, construct an orbital laser based asteroid defence network. And lo, the Hammer of God, struck them down for their hubris.
I'm a little puzzled about the asteroid, actually; I haven't run into references to it outside your work, Dr. Valate.
It seems a little odd that an interstellar society (they were in more than one system, if I remember?) with technology the Empire still hasn't quite caught up to would really get disrupted so badly by an enemy that could be mined to death.
Even if it was just a matter of everybody watching everybody else so hard that they didn't notice the large rock sneaking up on their capital, it seems more like a catalyst than a cause-- a fast route to something that was primed to happen anyway. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
100
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 17:24:47 -
[103] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote: Sure, Revan Neferis used to go around telling people that she was all about secret government influence etc.
But both you and she seem to have missed the point that secrets cease to be secret the moment you advertise them.
Really? It seems that secret orders and societies seem be a part of Imperial Society.
There is really nothing wrong with point that there are secret societies. To acknowledge that they exist is a non-issue.
Rather what they can do becomes the unknown and feared aspect. Most groups preferring it that way.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3110
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Posted - 2017.03.15 17:35:07 -
[104] - Quote
Uh ... I don't think the Order of Saint Tetrimon is a "secret society" as such, Ms. Leshrac. More of a (largely open) religious order that's often been at odds with Imperial authority.
I kind of don't doubt that there are a lot of secret societies in the Empire, though: it seems like just the kind of game bored petty nobility (and even some of the more bored Holders) might occupy themselves with even if they don't end up getting into stuff that would get them set on fire if the Ministry of Internal Order came knocking.
(That would be a fun thing to get to see, but there are a whole lot of good reasons not to let someone like me go nosing around in such places.) |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
100
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Posted - 2017.03.15 18:02:09 -
[105] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Uh ... I don't think the Order of Saint Tetrimon is a "secret society" as such, Ms. Leshrac. More of a (largely open) religious order that's often been at odds with Imperial authority. I kind of don't doubt that there are a lot of secret societies in the Empire, though: it seems like just the kind of game bored petty nobility (and even some of the more bored Holders) might occupy themselves with even if they don't end up getting into stuff that would get them set on fire if the Ministry of Internal Order came knocking. (That would be a fun thing to get to see, but there are a whole lot of good reasons not to let someone like me go nosing around in such places.)
And yet other sources disagree
They were a prominent order who reversed a number of Zaragram II decrees. However their work put them in direct conflict with the Moral Reforms movement at the time.
However the Order has been known to turn on its own. Especially after being declared heretics in their own right by loyalists.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2030
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Posted - 2017.03.15 18:08:52 -
[106] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote: I'm a little puzzled about the asteroid, actually; I haven't run into references to it outside your work, Dr. Valate. It seems a little odd that an interstellar society (they were in more than one system, if I remember?) with technology the Empire still hasn't quite caught up to would really get disrupted so badly by an enemy that could be mined to death. Even if it was just a matter of everybody watching everybody else so hard that they didn't notice the large rock sneaking up on their capital, it seems more like a catalyst than a cause-- a fast route to something that was primed to happen anyway.
A few corrections. It was not a singular asteroid, and it did not strike the capital world. The fateful events were a series of small asteroids that struck the two ocean worlds that were the primary source of planktonic biomass used by the mass cloning industry, to produce labourers and sacrificial slaves for the Takmahl Lords. The sudden collapse of this industry causing the socio-economic calamity that ultimately led to the decline and fall of the Takmahl Empire. And while some technologies were very advanced, others were not, so it may have been the case that the asteroids were not detected by the technology available at the time. The other possibility, would be, that the initial strike on one of the ocean worlds, was a deliberate act, by the planetary overlord of the other world, in a bid to monopolise the biomass industry for personal gain, possibly even to usurp the then Takmahl Emperor. A counterstrike by the other planetary Lord, and then counter-counter strikes, and the situation unfolds with a certain tedious inevitability.
And while the asteroids may have been the catalyst, they can also be interpreted as the notification that the Takmahl have been Judged, and that the Sentence is about to be given out.
As for why there are few references to this series of works, it is, in my opinion, quite possible that the Amarr Imperial scholars who would be the ones to write down anything significant about the whole affair, considered it beneath noticing. "A small empire of heretics was eradicated by their own infighting", without reference to the circumstances behind the infighting. Generally speaking, in the Amarr histories, it does not often record what grievances that someone had before they rebelled against the authority of their Holder or Emperor, only the facts that they did rebel, and were quashed.
And of course, the influence of the Theology Council, in suppressing knowledge of the Takmahl history, and in particular suppression of any surviving Takmahl scriptural works.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3110
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Posted - 2017.03.15 18:09:09 -
[107] - Quote
Uh ... your second source also looks like it says it's a religious order, Ms. Leshrac. That's not the same thing as a secret society? |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3110
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Posted - 2017.03.15 18:15:32 -
[108] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:And of course, the influence of the Theology Council, in suppressing knowledge of the Takmahl history, and in particular suppression of any surviving Takmahl scriptural works.
Okay, but, can you point me to something referencing an issue with asteroids, Dr. Valate?
(Also, when you bring something on yourself by cause and effect, I'm not sure it's necessary to describe it as God's judgment. I mean, maybe you can, but it seems just as easy to say, "Don't be so fixated on each other that you ignore everything else or destroy your own foundation by striking at your enemy." I'm not sure God need be bothered to care, when natural consequences do just as well.) |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
2031
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Posted - 2017.03.15 18:43:09 -
[109] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Okay, but, can you point me to something referencing an issue with asteroids, Dr. Valate?
Geological surveys of the relevant planets. Numerous impact craters, several of which are very recent.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3110
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Posted - 2017.03.15 19:14:36 -
[110] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Aria Jenneth wrote:Okay, but, can you point me to something referencing an issue with asteroids, Dr. Valate? Geological surveys of the relevant planets. Numerous impact craters, several of which are very recent.
Couldn't those have happened post-collapse at least as easily? |
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Ascentior
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
309
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Posted - 2017.03.16 01:14:38 -
[111] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac, you continue to flaunt your ignorance.
A secret is knowledge of something others do not know. A secret society is a group who's activities are kept secret, or only speculated on. The Order of Saint Tetrimon was never either of those.
Admiral of PIE Inc.,
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment)
Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy
Chosen by God to serve the Empire.
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Graelyn
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
887
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 11:22:22 -
[112] - Quote
Erm....with all possible respect Praetorian, are you sure about that?
Cardinal Graelyn
Imperial Liaison, I-RED
Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
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Graelyn
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
887
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Posted - 2017.03.16 11:26:08 -
[113] - Quote
(( doublepost ))
Cardinal Graelyn
Imperial Liaison, I-RED
Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
100
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Posted - 2017.03.16 15:59:13 -
[114] - Quote
Graelyn wrote:Erm....with all possible respect Admiral, are you sure about that?
I have personally convened with the Tetrimon Order leadership on their stratagem to annihilate your corporation and allies in particular. Then, worked with your devoted Admiralship to stymie those efforts. Grand Master Horm, and his cadre, and his beloved heretical texts, died to Imperial Navy Dreadnoughts. Inside one of my own towers.
If you knew the sort of things the Order tried to do, your trust in their current incarnation might be altered significantly.
The matter concerning the Order of St. Tetrimon was well known factor back in the day.
Some of their most loyal members later joined cults of the Sani Sabik and many of them successful.
That being said, all is not what it seems. The the masses the "Ivory Tower" will remain so. But to those who educate themselves and study history as opposed to merely reciting rhetoric from times past.
I am honored for your perspective Cardinal Graelyn
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Ascentior
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
310
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Posted - 2017.03.16 23:47:05 -
[115] - Quote
Graelyn wrote:Erm....with all possible respect Admiral, are you sure about that?
I have personally convened with the Tetrimon Order leadership on their stratagem to annihilate your corporation and allies in particular. Then, worked with your devoted Admiralship to stymie those efforts. Grand Master Horm, and his cadre, and his beloved heretical texts, died to Imperial Navy Dreadnoughts. Inside one of my own towers.
If you knew the sort of things the Order tried to do, your trust in their current incarnation might be altered significantly. Thus, illustrating the point. Secrets are not so secret when you share them. Hence Grand Master Horm, is former Grand Master Horm.
Admiral of PIE Inc.,
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment)
Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy
Chosen by God to serve the Empire.
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Ascentior
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
310
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Posted - 2017.03.17 00:06:36 -
[116] - Quote
As for our trust; PIE trusts in God, and God's divinely appointed ruler. We trust in our Holy Empire. It is through our faith and devotion, and God's grace, that we are still here to continue defending our illustrious Empire from threats. Internal and external. Covert and overt. Physical and spiritual.
Admiral of PIE Inc.,
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment)
Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy
Chosen by God to serve the Empire.
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Graelyn
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
912
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Posted - 2017.03.17 00:27:04 -
[117] - Quote
Well, here's hoping the Order doesn't target you for destruction again anytime soon.
I could not prevent such a thing again, and in their new position, I'm not sure you could do much to stop them either.
Cardinal Graelyn
Imperial Liaison, I-RED
Amarr Loyalist of the Year - YC113
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
102
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Posted - 2017.03.17 00:37:43 -
[118] - Quote
Ascentior wrote:As for our trust; PIE trusts in God, and God's divinely appointed ruler. We trust in our Holy Empire. It is through our faith and devotion, and God's grace, that we are still here to continue defending our illustrious Empire from threats. Internal and external. Covert and overt. Physical and spiritual.
Careful there Admiral.
Your hubris is showing.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
398
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Posted - 2017.03.17 01:43:13 -
[119] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:Ascentior wrote:As for our trust; PIE trusts in God, and God's divinely appointed ruler. We trust in our Holy Empire. It is through our faith and devotion, and God's grace, that we are still here to continue defending our illustrious Empire from threats. Internal and external. Covert and overt. Physical and spiritual. Careful there Admiral. Your hubris is showing. Hubris shows by what means exactly, their trust in God, Empire etc or defence through faith and devotion? |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
102
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Posted - 2017.03.17 17:41:09 -
[120] - Quote
Ashlar Vellum wrote:Casserina Leshrac wrote:Ascentior wrote:As for our trust; PIE trusts in God, and God's divinely appointed ruler. We trust in our Holy Empire. It is through our faith and devotion, and God's grace, that we are still here to continue defending our illustrious Empire from threats. Internal and external. Covert and overt. Physical and spiritual. Careful there Admiral. Your hubris is showing. Hubris shows by what means exactly, their trust in God, Empire etc or defence through faith and devotion?
Not to be confused with Humility before the Divine.
I guess I missed that when I walked among the Faithful.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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