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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
6060
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Posted - 2017.03.14 13:12:20 -
[271] - Quote
I've thoroughly enjoyed this discussion (even if it's ventured off-track in a few areas).
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Verlyn
Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan
74
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Posted - 2017.03.14 14:37:26 -
[272] - Quote
lilol' me wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Despite the initial surge in new Alpha players, active player numbers on Tranquility are now almost back to where they were prior to Ascension. There is nothing earth shattering on the horizon and CCP has fired all barrels (SKINs, skill extractors/injectors and F2P). To-date Alphas have't really contributed more than reducing mineral prices, serving as cannon fodder in null fleets and continued thread requests for "moar".
Numbers don't lie so it will be interesting to see how CCP spins this (if they even try to spin it). I'm not sure if the free 30-day trial that was originally in-place was any worse than the current F2P model. One advantage of the free trial is that it gave you unlimited access to the game for a month - which was more than enough time to make a determination.
Rather than continuing to gimp the "Alpha experience" CCP should be looking for ways to incentivize players to subscribe and become Omegas. So here are a few suggestions in no particular order (donning my asbestos suit):
* Remove all the current skill and module restrictions from Alphas save one: reduced skill training time. * Limit Alphas to high-sec only. No venturing into low-sec, null-sec or wormhole space. * Move L4 agents, Incursions and ice belts to low-sec. I was vehemently opposed to these ideas originally, but have gradually warmed to the concept (even though it means my own style of play will have to adapt and evolve). In combination with banning the transit and operatipn of supers, this might actually largely fix low-sec. * Extend a Premium Insurance option to Omegas to cover T2, T3 and Faction ship hulls and ease the transition to low-sec. * Introduce a new Implant Extractor for Aurum that can only be utilized by Omega characters (use extracts all implants in a clone or corpse).
Comments welcome - discussion appreciated - even flames tolerated. because the problem isnt free to play its the gameplay itself but ccp just cant and wont and refuse to see it. I wonder how much actual User Research CCP does? and I dont mean listening to the CSM who dont even talk to the players. and I dont mean getting feedback on forums which is mostly vets trying to secure their game, I mean actually get out and speak to players. for me ill always say these things are problems Scamming - big problem Ganking - big problem Risk vs Reward - CCP have nerfed reward its pathetic. I mean you do a lvl 3 mission and you get literally not much for your efforts Immersion - the game can be terribly boring, missions are boring, pvp well isnt exactly exciting, there is no life in eve, you only ever see someone at a station or at a gate really, there is nothing in between. Citadels help a little on that but i want to see more life happening. I would love to see more actual aliens, instead of humanoids. NPCs are just things, there is no reality to them. The NPE was getting somewhere needs to be implemented into missions. The fact that old alliances have control of everything and always will. Until CCP gives the same opportunities to every new player then nothing will change. There is no way for example that a new person or group will ever get that r64 moon ever. There is no way they will get 0.0 space unless they rent it and pay billions. Eve is controlled by the big entities now. I honestly believe eve needs another or a few new instances because of this. Some will disagree but I strongly believe it needs it, to give others a chance of the same things. Recruitment is impossible now, there are literally hundreds of corps recruiting for a small amount of people. which usually go to the big alliances again. Theres a pattern here..... Everything for the new person is consumed by the old of which they can never have. So whats the point playing...
True Sci-Fi environment, true persistent sandbox universe, spaceships, and Quafe.
I dont know about you but these motivations will sure keep me going for the next 5 years or so, at least, and beyond that well, nothing lasts forever.
No video game in history has come this close to creating a universe where you can think 5 years down the line with it. |
Salvos Rhoska
2421
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Posted - 2017.03.14 14:47:01 -
[273] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:No video game in history has come this close to creating a universe where you can think 5 years down the line with it. Ultima Online did, and still does.
The 90s, man. Cut too short by the turn of the century, and all the crap since.
Gaming, despite its increased popularity, is ever since in decline in quality. We really lost something crucial back then.
PvE v PvP
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
54
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Posted - 2017.03.14 16:29:41 -
[274] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Scialt wrote:
The problem Eve has with subscriptions is the same problem many games have.... the age.
This has nothing to do with graphics or anything like that... it's how MMO's mature.
When a game starts, people are joining as they learn about it. It often starts slow and then gets bigger and bigger as people hear about a "cool new game".
Actually, what you are describing is true of many products, this pattern has a name: Bass Diffusion. At first the growth is exponential, then it tapers off to be logarithmic. The problem is that not only has growth tapered off people have left. As to why they have left is open to much speculation. I am in the camp of "people have left because CCP has been making the game less dangerous, less interesting." Not sure what the other side's argument is since they really haven't articulated one. Instead they argue the future of the game is in getting people who are not into PvP to play the game and drastically change the game to suit these new potential customers. Quote:Then, people start reaching the "end game". I know... people say "eve has no end game"... well there are "end ships". I remember what a big deal the first Titans were (and the first Titan kill). When people reach the end-game (or start getting close in the case of skills and ships for EVE) the developers have to start adding content for the end game. In other games it's raising the level cap and pushing the end game further out (making what was the end game now a "mid game" place). In EVE it's adding new ships and skills... from T2's to Titans to T3's. Eventually the gap gets so big it intimidates new players... and this starts the decline in this type of game. I tend to discount the skill gap argument. Yes, I have alot of SP. But whenever I am in a given ship the SP that apply to that ship and the modules are all that matter. And those SP might be 10-15 million SP. Which is still alot, but it is not a giant gap when comparing my 146 million SP to some other guys 26 million SP. Quote:Now Eve has actually handled this better than most games I've seen (which is why it still is around)... but it's still there. You want to be a Titan Pilot? Train for 3-4 years or spend a LOT of money on skill injectors. Not only do SP extractors/injectors allow for players to catch up who really want too, it also creates an SP sink reducing the over all pool of SP in the game. Quote:I'm not saying this is bad... it's just the lifecycle of a MMORPG. All of them reward those who've been active for a long time. But that eventually creates a gap that tends to make it tough to get new players. I'm not sure there's a whole lot more that can be done. I think the unlimited trial setup has brought some players who left for a time back (like myself). But no amount of "new player benefits" is going to erase the fact that many toons have 10-15 years of training and asset accumulation on them. There are a large number of people who don't want to jump on board with a game when they feel like they're that far "behind". First off many of those players with 10+ years of time in game aren't playing anymore. If one decides, "I'm not going to play because I can never catch that tiny fraction who are still playing and have been for a long time..." well I'm thinking they wouldn't stay anyways. Further, with SP extractors/injectors new players can close that SP gap faster if they want too and have the RL ISK. Worrying that some player with 200+ million SP is going to come across you and beat you is like worrying about running into a grizzly bear in Time's Square. And if you really think it might be likely, grabe 4-5 friends and bone him.
Look... all games have a huge "gap" feeling between those joining later in the game and those joining earlier. I felt that in 2008 and I can't imagine how much more people feel it today. It's not as bad as other games, but it's foolish to think that factor doesn't exist. That feeling of being behind is a deterrent to new players and it increases as the age of existing players (and their wealth and ability) increase.
With other games... there are some options. If you keep the gap between start and end-game easy to traverse, new players aren't as intimidated by it. Of course... old players tend to get bored and leave which isn't ideal either. Eve is the opposite... it's tough to get new players but old players build up a lot of equity in the game. Eve does better bringing subscribers back (like me) than getting truly brand new players because of that fact.... I've already got some equity in the game and so I get to come back to that equity.
Eve is a single server though... and that gap is intimidating. Some people will be okay with it... but the number of people willing to join in a pay to play game and make up a 10 year perceived deficit is going to be small... and get smaller and smaller as time passes. Yes... you could spend a few hundred dollars to catch up using injectors... but that's not realistic. You could also try to earn isk to pay for the injectors... but new players don't earn isk as quickly as those who are already trained up. I could grind missions or anomalies for 10 hours and get a skill injector... but the guy running level 1 or 2 mission? Yeah... it's going to take him a lot longer.
Let's say you feel like 15 million sp added to where you start are needed to "catch up" to the point you're able to be on par with an experienced player. That's over 400 dollars worth of plex to pay for those injectors... and that's still short of the 26 million sp you suggest would put them at a level to make no difference. That's an intimidating gap for a new player. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
54
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 16:35:30 -
[275] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Verlyn wrote:No video game in history has come this close to creating a universe where you can think 5 years down the line with it. Ultima Online did, and still does. The 90s, man. Cut too short by the turn of the century, and all the crap since. Gaming, despite its increased popularity, is ever since in decline in quality. We really lost something crucial back then.
I don't really remember that in UO... but I stopped playing after about a year and a half. Still have that cloth map that came with the game around somewhere. |
Salvos Rhoska
2425
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 17:00:54 -
[276] - Quote
Scialt wrote:I don't really remember that in UO... but I stopped playing after about a year and a half. Still have that cloth map that came with the game around somewhere.
You ofc couldnt just afk wait for a "Titan" toon, and you had to actively grind to raise skills. But many of us had 5 years plans regarding where and what we wanted to be. Mostly regarding building communities.
Had it not been for the Trammel/Felucca split...
That taught me that PvP must never be separated from PvE.
PvE v PvP
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6225
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Posted - 2017.03.14 18:18:51 -
[277] - Quote
Scialt wrote:
Look... all games have a huge "gap" feeling between those joining later in the game and those joining earlier. I felt that in 2008 and I can't imagine how much more people feel it today. It's not as bad as other games, but it's foolish to think that factor doesn't exist. That feeling of being behind is a deterrent to new players and it increases as the age of existing players (and their wealth and ability) increase.
With other games... there are some options. If you keep the gap between start and end-game easy to traverse, new players aren't as intimidated by it. Of course... old players tend to get bored and leave which isn't ideal either. Eve is the opposite... it's tough to get new players but old players build up a lot of equity in the game. Eve does better bringing subscribers back (like me) than getting truly brand new players because of that fact.... I've already got some equity in the game and so I get to come back to that equity.
Eve is a single server though... and that gap is intimidating. Some people will be okay with it... but the number of people willing to join in a pay to play game and make up a 10 year perceived deficit is going to be small... and get smaller and smaller as time passes. Yes... you could spend a few hundred dollars to catch up using injectors... but that's not realistic. You could also try to earn isk to pay for the injectors... but new players don't earn isk as quickly as those who are already trained up. I could grind missions or anomalies for 10 hours and get a skill injector... but the guy running level 1 or 2 mission? Yeah... it's going to take him a lot longer.
Let's say you feel like 15 million sp added to where you start are needed to "catch up" to the point you're able to be on par with an experienced player. That's over 400 dollars worth of plex to pay for those injectors... and that's still short of the 26 million sp you suggest would put them at a level to make no difference. That's an intimidating gap for a new player.
Okay, let me try again and more simply: that gap...that intimidation is largely in your head. Every player should be playing the game to have fun for himself, not worrying if some other player is somehow having more fun. If you do come into conflict with an older player the context matters a great deal. If a 4 month old player catches my "8 year old" industrial character in an industrial ship...I'm boned even though that character of mine may have 10x the SP. A player who has 10+ years who runs into a gate camp with 5 two year old characters is likely going to be in trouble. This notion of more SP -> win is just wrongheaded thinking.
And yeah, to get 15 million SP "fast" is going to cost some serious money...that is about a year of standard training. You can pay $10.95/month and do it the old fashion way or you can pay near 2x and do it fast. Everything comes with a tradeoff.
Oh, and another thing. Early on I thought like you: more SP and I'll be able to defeat other players. But I quickly found out that getting the SP to get into a specific ship was not a "cure all". Sure I could then get in to a battleship, but then you find out that it sucks against small fast moving ships and that you can die to a surprisingly small number of those small fast moving ships in certain instances. So there is a new player, he doesn't want to wait, he plunks down $400 pumps in 15 million SP goes out in some spiffy ship because now he is a bad ass and dies to people in not so spiffy ships who set up a nice gate camp in LS or NS or wherever. Now how does he feel about that $400 expenditure?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
54
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Posted - 2017.03.14 19:22:59 -
[278] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Okay, let me try again and more simply: that gap...that intimidation is largely in your head. Every player should be playing the game to have fun for himself, not worrying if some other player is somehow having more fun. If you do come into conflict with an older player the context matters a great deal. If a 4 month old player catches my "8 year old" industrial character in an industrial ship...I'm boned even though that character of mine may have 10x the SP. A player who has 10+ years who runs into a gate camp with 5 two year old characters is likely going to be in trouble. This notion of more SP -> win is just wrongheaded thinking.
And yeah, to get 15 million SP "fast" is going to cost some serious money...that is about a year of standard training. You can pay $10.95/month and do it the old fashion way or you can pay near 2x and do it fast. Everything comes with a tradeoff.
Oh, and another thing. Early on I thought like you: more SP and I'll be able to defeat other players. But I quickly found out that getting the SP to get into a specific ship was not a "cure all". Sure I could then get in to a battleship, but then you find out that it sucks against small fast moving ships and that you can die to a surprisingly small number of those small fast moving ships in certain instances. So there is a new player, he doesn't want to wait, he plunks down $400 pumps in 15 million SP goes out in some spiffy ship because now he is a bad ass and dies to people in not so spiffy ships who set up a nice gate camp in LS or NS or wherever. Now how does he feel about that $400 expenditure?
You're trying to say that perception of the gap shouldn't matter. And perhaps it shouldn't... but it's silly to think it doesn't exist. And that perception does increase the difficulty of attracting new subs.
And it's simplistic to narrow down what I was saying to just "SP". It's about overall development in the game. One of the great things about EVE is how it involves long term planning and very little comes easy.
And one of the things that keeps new players away is the fact the game involves long term planning and very little comes easy... but many others have already gotten there because the game is 15 years old.
I think Eve is an awesome game. But if CCP created a new server that started from scratch... I'd abandon my 40m sp main and be there in a heartbeat. And I think many more than you'd expect would do the same. Many of us are okay with the fact we have some deficits because we started later (no T2 BPO's, 100m skill point differentials, 100billion isk totals, hours of research on BP's). The game is good enough and enjoyable enough that we can accept that.
But a large number of us would also still choose to start over from an even spot if given the opportunity. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1572
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 19:30:20 -
[279] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: I know which group will whinge the loudest about all that...as always, the Carebears.
Shae always conveniently forgets Nullbears. What? Nullbears are carebears you stupid idiot.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
54
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Posted - 2017.03.14 19:35:00 -
[280] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Scialt wrote:I don't really remember that in UO... but I stopped playing after about a year and a half. Still have that cloth map that came with the game around somewhere. You ofc couldnt just afk wait for a "Titan" toon, and you had to actively grind to raise skills. But many of us had 5 years plans regarding where and what we wanted to be. Mostly regarding building communities. Had it not been for the Trammel/Felucca split... That taught me that PvP must never be separated from PvE.
Back when I played there was a set maximum on total skill points and you could get there relatively quickly. The problems I remember having was trying to keep the right 7 skills maxed and not accidentally lowering them when you didn't want to. We're getting way off topic though. |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6225
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Posted - 2017.03.14 21:13:50 -
[281] - Quote
Scialt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
Okay, let me try again and more simply: that gap...that intimidation is largely in your head. Every player should be playing the game to have fun for himself, not worrying if some other player is somehow having more fun. If you do come into conflict with an older player the context matters a great deal. If a 4 month old player catches my "8 year old" industrial character in an industrial ship...I'm boned even though that character of mine may have 10x the SP. A player who has 10+ years who runs into a gate camp with 5 two year old characters is likely going to be in trouble. This notion of more SP -> win is just wrongheaded thinking.
And yeah, to get 15 million SP "fast" is going to cost some serious money...that is about a year of standard training. You can pay $10.95/month and do it the old fashion way or you can pay near 2x and do it fast. Everything comes with a tradeoff.
Oh, and another thing. Early on I thought like you: more SP and I'll be able to defeat other players. But I quickly found out that getting the SP to get into a specific ship was not a "cure all". Sure I could then get in to a battleship, but then you find out that it sucks against small fast moving ships and that you can die to a surprisingly small number of those small fast moving ships in certain instances. So there is a new player, he doesn't want to wait, he plunks down $400 pumps in 15 million SP goes out in some spiffy ship because now he is a bad ass and dies to people in not so spiffy ships who set up a nice gate camp in LS or NS or wherever. Now how does he feel about that $400 expenditure?
You're trying to say that perception of the gap shouldn't matter. And perhaps it shouldn't... but it's silly to think it doesn't exist. And that perception does increase the difficulty of attracting new subs. And it's simplistic to narrow down what I was saying to just "SP". It's about overall development in the game. One of the great things about EVE is how it involves long term planning and very little comes easy. And one of the things that keeps new players away is the fact the game involves long term planning and very little comes easy... but many others have already gotten there because the game is 15 years old. I think Eve is an awesome game. But if CCP created a new server that started from scratch... I'd abandon my 40m sp main and be there in a heartbeat. And I think many more than you'd expect would do the same. Many of us are okay with the fact we have some deficits because we started later (no T2 BPO's, 100m skill point differentials, 100billion isk totals, hours of research on BP's). The game is good enough and enjoyable enough that we can accept that. But a large number of us would also still choose to start over from an even spot if given the opportunity.
Your argument does not go away with the new server. There will always be early adopters who will have these awful advantages you are speaking of. In a couple of years, you'll have those who made the switch and are now 2 years along and people starting 2 years from today would be back saying, "I can't compete." And to be perfectly honest here is what I hear, GÇ£ItGÇÖs not fair!GÇ¥ And there is still going to be the knowledge gap that the players have. Those coming to the new server will do things very differently than those who are starting for the first time. The veterans will be training core skills first the GÇ£boringGÇ¥ skills. TheyGÇÖll know good ways to start making ISK with little upfront costs. TheyGÇÖll understand the importance of the capacitor and cap warfare whereas newbies wonGÇÖt. And on and on.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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ApexDynamo
Hazardous Wormhole Rebels
11
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Posted - 2017.03.14 21:30:41 -
[282] - Quote
If anything this is how ccp shoulda worked alpha's
1. Cant fly anything bigger then a t1 frigate,
2. cant transfer isk from the alpha to an omega, or contracts
3.Limited Skill point set at 2.5m sp
4.Alpha's are restricted from leaveing highsec
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
6070
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Posted - 2017.03.14 21:31:33 -
[283] - Quote
ApexDynamo wrote:If anything this is how ccp shoulda worked alpha's Let the salt flow...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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ApexDynamo
Hazardous Wormhole Rebels
11
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Posted - 2017.03.14 21:33:09 -
[284] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:ApexDynamo wrote:If anything this is how ccp shoulda worked alpha's Let the salt flow...
I despise alpha change with a passion, been playing since 07 with first toon always bought 1 year subs from ccp. alpha is totally being abused and ccp aint makeing much profit from it eathier |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
527
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Posted - 2017.03.14 21:35:26 -
[285] - Quote
ApexDynamo wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:ApexDynamo wrote:If anything this is how ccp shoulda worked alpha's Let the salt flow... I despise alpha change with a passion, been playing since 07 with first toon always bought 1 year subs from ccp. alpha is totally being abused and ccp aint makeing much profit from it eathier
i do intend the sub like you.. i think... xD always and only 1 year sub |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
6071
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 21:36:33 -
[286] - Quote
Electronic Arts likes F2P models...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
527
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Posted - 2017.03.14 21:38:07 -
[287] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Electronic Arts likes F2P models...
are you implying that ccp is on the shopping list of EA? it's years that it's on that list... |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8249
|
Posted - 2017.03.14 23:19:50 -
[288] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:But if you want to make some bank out in the middle of nowhere and rake in all that you want from your efforts, someone can lay a bullet into your brain stem with a sniper rig and take all your stuff.
The difference is that the person who does that in the city is going to be hard pressed to do it again if they get return fire or put in a cage. If you want to take a ridiculous real world comparison, then do it all the way. No one is more remote than being in space. Certainly far more remote than the middle of nowhere on Earth where someone might be able to put a bullet in your brain stem (like really...the mentality of carebears). That doesn't even compare to the remoteness of space in the slightest, because out in space you aren't in Frankfurt, or any other city. You'e in a vacuum (at least one with lots of water in it). Alternatively, just take the much more reasonable view that this isn't RL, it's just a game. It's fine to shoot someone or be shot at anywhere, because it's just a game. But the "jollies" of the HTFU and gank crowd is real. Why not take it all the way and make any out of game blog (out of character pointing and laughing at carebears and miners when you wind them up, no more E1, etc) against the rules? See how that works? BTW I knew you would respond with that. Your type is predictable as usual. I expect Teckos to lose sleep over my idea in the same modus of a scab being irresistible. The other thing to that comment is its much more reasonable given this is not RL to use the 7,000 pure PvP systems to PvP in. Apart from war decs leave the people who don't want to PvP alone in their 1/7 of the space you have, go play with your capitals, citidels and all the other rewards you get for PvP'ing in those 7,000 systems. The more people that are paying IRL money to play the game the more money CCP gets and the more toys and systems that get added. Since its a game it really shouldn't be bothering people that some choose the carebear life, at least not to the extent it seems to bother some people in this thread, surely this is just a sideline thing you do in your greater life and not your greater life.... I hope.
Well the trend for a while, for a lot of fellows, was to "tune out" of life and live all their lives and drama (with the full compliment of other emotions) through videogames. That trend is coming to an end because RL is getting more interesting, players are realizing that there is more to life no matter how much they try to avoid it, and socjus went a bridge too far trying to invade the last refuge of western civilizations dispossessed men, an incident best known as "Gamergate".
But what we have here is a small plurality of that last bastion of such people, ever more bitterly clinging to 2010, getting ever more zealous in their "doctrines" on how the game should be played, and ever more forgetting that it's only a game. It's as if they had so mastered their life in retreat they don't want to leave it.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Beta Maoye
151
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Posted - 2017.03.15 00:18:14 -
[289] - Quote
Isn't it amazing a game can last for more than 13 years? They are still fixing bugs and rewriting legacy codes that were more than a decade ago. It can't be done without love and passion from the company and players. |
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 01:31:49 -
[290] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Electronic Arts likes F2P models... I though their thing was $60 game (or $100+ collector's edition) + $60 season pass + whatever cosmetic or booster items they can go whaling with. |
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Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1188
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Posted - 2017.03.15 16:11:29 -
[291] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Electronic Arts likes F2P models...
And here we have it.
This entire thread is tears.
This whole topic is just designed to support the narrative of fail anti-gankers. The whole "CODE. is killing the game so CCP made alphas to fluff up the numbers so they can sell the game."
It's tinfoil, but more than that, it's tears.
Another threadnaught full of tears over the New Order. Lol
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Salvos Rhoska
2435
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 16:32:47 -
[292] - Quote
Calm down, suicide ganker.
PvE v PvP
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3198
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 20:15:43 -
[293] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Electronic Arts likes F2P models...
EA don't like free to play they like money. If subscription was were the money was, they would put subscription on their games. For all the hate they keep getting and random "boycot" on their product, they sure as hell won't go broke any time soon. |
Johnno Ormand
Row Row Fight the Power Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
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Posted - 2017.03.15 20:16:55 -
[294] - Quote
CCPls fix AFK cloaky camping! |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3198
|
Posted - 2017.03.15 20:17:28 -
[295] - Quote
ApexDynamo wrote:If anything this is how ccp shoulda worked alpha's
1. Cant fly anything bigger then a t1 frigate,
2. cant transfer isk from the alpha to an omega, or contracts
3.Limited Skill point set at 2.5m sp
4.Alpha's are restricted from leaveing highsec
How the hell do you try a game when you can't do **** in the trial?
He're is a trial of chess but you only play with rooks because :reasons:. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6228
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Posted - 2017.03.15 20:43:27 -
[296] - Quote
Johnno Ormand wrote:CCPls fix AFK cloaky camping!
Wrong thread.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
1055
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:31:32 -
[297] - Quote
Rroff wrote: I can't pretend to have an answer to it and new player retention certainly isn't the only reason for a declining player base - I'm no fan of making highsec significantly safer and nothing is coming to me right now as to how to solve it. One aspect that I know has been a big factor in some of them quitting is the lack of ability to retaliate - I've been asked more than once before, before someone quit, to help them get revenge and I've had to tell them that there is little that they or I can do to meaningfully interdict for instance someone's random alt that is only used purely for catalyst ganking and so on.
Quoting myself here - but on reflection in almost every case (except 1-2) it wasn't (as I'd originally thought) the act of being ganked that turned them away from the game it was the fact that there was usually no meaningful way to extract revenge - even by teaming up with more experienced players.
Only half serious but maybe the act of initiating non-consensual PVP in highsec (excluding as part of a war) should result in that player:
-Unable to leave highsec for the duration of the kill right (maybe with some modification of the kill right duration) -Ship/pod always stays in space if they log off -Unable to dock in stations (or kicked out when they log off) -Have to log at POS or a citadel belonging to the corp they are in (otherwise they'd float in space)
:insert evil smiley: |
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics CODE.
1188
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:41:17 -
[298] - Quote
Carebear entitlement is disgusting.
Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
6233
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 20:01:34 -
[299] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Rroff wrote: I can't pretend to have an answer to it and new player retention certainly isn't the only reason for a declining player base - I'm no fan of making highsec significantly safer and nothing is coming to me right now as to how to solve it. One aspect that I know has been a big factor in some of them quitting is the lack of ability to retaliate - I've been asked more than once before, before someone quit, to help them get revenge and I've had to tell them that there is little that they or I can do to meaningfully interdict for instance someone's random alt that is only used purely for catalyst ganking and so on.
Quoting myself here - but on reflection in almost every case (except 1-2) it wasn't (as I'd originally thought) the act of being ganked that turned them away from the game it was the fact that there was usually no meaningful way to extract revenge - even by teaming up with more experienced players. Only half serious but maybe the act of initiating non-consensual PVP in highsec (excluding as part of a war) should result in that player: -Unable to leave highsec for the duration of the kill right (maybe with some modification of the kill right duration) -Ship/pod always stays in space if they log off -Unable to dock in stations (or kicked out when they log off) -Have to log at POS or a citadel belonging to the corp they are in (otherwise they'd float in space) :insert evil smiley:
Your proposal fails to do what you claim you want. You are asking CCP to do what you canGÇÖt or wonGÇÖt (mostly won't).
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
1055
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 21:10:19 -
[300] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:
Your proposal fails to do what you claim you want. You are asking CCP to do what you canGÇÖt or wonGÇÖt (mostly won't).
What are you talking about? though my proposal is mostly not intended seriously it would (with a bit of tweaking and some other changes I didn't go into as it wasn't intended entirely seriously) make real consequences for taking an action - the only people who wouldn't like it are those who just like to kill easy targets with little risk of actual comeback. |
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