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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
37
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Posted - 2017.03.13 20:26:41 -
[1] - Quote
The role of Battleships in EVE Universe ?
Why should I use Battleship ?
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5361
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Posted - 2017.03.13 20:43:50 -
[2] - Quote
Lots of guns, lots of tank, works in fleets.
T3c does it better, but costs more. |
Cade Windstalker
1083
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Posted - 2017.03.13 20:58:38 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Lots of guns, lots of tank, works in fleets.
T3c does it better, but costs more.
This, mostly.
Except range, Battleships do long range better than T3s, but T3s do speed better. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
885
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Posted - 2017.03.13 21:02:01 -
[4] - Quote
For PVE standard T1 battleships are the most common choice for level 4 missions and nullsec ratting. They are cheap and effective.
Pirate battleships are also used for missions and ratting as well as incursions and nullsec fleets. Arguably the best price/performance.
Navy battleships are in an awkward place at the moment - pirate battleships are better and cheaper
Moving to T2, Black Ops battleships have a unique role with their ability to fit a jump drive. Marauders are excellent PVE ships but probably not sufficiently better than a pirate battleship to justify the cost. There will be differences of opinion here - which is great, that's why markets work. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20611
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Posted - 2017.03.13 21:14:24 -
[5] - Quote
Being a badass.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
39
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Posted - 2017.03.13 22:25:12 -
[6] - Quote
T3 Battle Cruisers do equal DPS & Alpha as well long range and Tracing as Battleships, but their speed and agility makes them more suited for Blitzkrieg attacks , but their speed can be used as a defensive tactic to rival the Battleships HP's , therefore making them more effective in Fleet battles.
Well you going to say BS have better chance if they get remotely repaired but usually most of the BS pOp on the first Fleet barrage
The Battleships still need some love to set them apart |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
183
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Posted - 2017.03.13 23:47:36 -
[7] - Quote
Battleships look awesome except minimatar, machariel, bhaalgorn, bhargest and armagedon. Plus they're battleships.
They really should have a role bonus though like most ships do nowadays.
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Cade Windstalker
1086
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Posted - 2017.03.13 23:57:11 -
[8] - Quote
A8ina wrote:T3 Battle Cruisers do equal DPS & Alpha as well long range and Tracing as Battleships, but their speed and agility makes them more suited for Blitzkrieg attacks , but their speed can be used as a defensive tactic to rival the Battleships HP's , therefore making them more effective in Fleet battles. Well you going to say BS have better chance if they get remotely repaired but usually most of the BS pOp on the first Fleet barrage The Battleships still need some love to set them apart
This is not accurate, a T3C can get roughly equal DPS to some T1 battleships but the Battleship will basically always win for alpha with a similar gun type, and will always have better possible range with a similar gun type.
Also I'd like to point out that we're comparing Battleships to T3Cs, which are slated to get nerfed rebalanced this summer... |
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
39
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Posted - 2017.03.14 00:41:13 -
[9] - Quote
What about if Remote repair units are effected from signature radius, as missiles do so when a large RR unit is used at smaller ship will not get the full benefit as a BS size ship do therefore slightly benefiting BS's, is a small change but is a start. |
Cade Windstalker
1088
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Posted - 2017.03.14 02:59:51 -
[10] - Quote
A8ina wrote:What about if Remote repair units are effected from signature radius, as missiles do so when a large RR unit is used at smaller ship will not get the full benefit as a BS size ship do therefore slightly benefiting BS's, is a small change but is a start.
This would basically kill RR entirely, since Logi Cruisers are designed to use Large RR. BSes can already generally tank better because they have more space for fittings and more raw buffer meaning they often don't need to fit buffer to catch reps in smaller engagements.
Seriously, BSes are fine, they don in fact get used and always have, they're just not amazing outside of larger fleet fights where damage and projection are what win 9/10 times.
Their main problem at the moment though is probably T3Cs, which compete on tank and do well enough on DPS while being smaller and faster. |
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1633
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Posted - 2017.03.14 07:12:51 -
[11] - Quote
A8ina wrote:What about if Remote repair units are effected from signature radius, as missiles do so when a large RR unit is used at smaller ship will not get the full benefit as a BS size ship do therefore slightly benefiting BS's, is a small change but is a start.
My logi heart is crying now!
Don't make logi more difficult than it need to be. Oh and all your logi buddies erased you from their watchlist - permanently.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3191
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Posted - 2017.03.14 13:30:18 -
[12] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:A8ina wrote:What about if Remote repair units are effected from signature radius, as missiles do so when a large RR unit is used at smaller ship will not get the full benefit as a BS size ship do therefore slightly benefiting BS's, is a small change but is a start. My logi heart is crying now! Don't make logi more difficult than it need to be. Oh and all your logi buddies erased you from their watchlist - permanently.
It would not be harder. Just less efficient since there is nothing at all we could do to get more out of reps affected by sig since bigger sig would also mean more damage taken. Nothing about player skill would change unless they were to also include a form of tracking. |
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
39
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Posted - 2017.03.15 00:26:03 -
[13] - Quote
The RR Signature radius is soft change and easy to implement and has some logic behind it.
But still BattalShips need something to make them special as a class .
CCP already tried and created some modules specially for them with the inferno expansion but did not help much
Needs something that you can develop strategy on
Another idea is Phase-out Unit that will phase-out the BS for short time and reappear later , like the Philadelphia experiment
Anyone any ideas
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Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
316
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Posted - 2017.03.15 07:43:13 -
[14] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote: Minimatar, Machariel battleships look awesome, forget the rest.
They really should have a role bonus though like most ships do nowadays.
Little fix for ya.
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1639
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Posted - 2017.03.15 07:56:50 -
[15] - Quote
A8ina wrote:....Another idea is Phase-out Unit that will phase-out the BS for short time and reappear later , like the Philadelphia experiment
Ouuuh, sexy talk makes me curious, call me intrigued.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3193
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Posted - 2017.03.15 12:39:36 -
[16] - Quote
A8ina wrote:Needs something that you can develop strategy on
MJD would work better if BS had the lock range to use it effectively. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
3039
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Posted - 2017.03.15 16:49:35 -
[17] - Quote
A8ina wrote:The role of Battleships in EVE Universe ?
Why should I use Battleship ? Nobody really needs you to want to fly a battleship. We really have enough other people who want it because it's big, so if you're happy flying cruisers then more power to you.
I'd give battleships more hit points; now that they finally got their mobility nerfs they need the buff that sets them properly aside--not just underneath--battlecruisers. Once upon a time battleships were basically expensive battlecruisers.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Cristl
569
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Posted - 2017.03.15 18:02:46 -
[18] - Quote
Give them spinal mount weapons! (Shamelessly stolen from the Traveler pencil and paper rpg).
Can only fit one, and they have to be aligned (as per warping) with their target to fire upon it (so they would be anti-capital and anti-structure weapons realistically).
Could be pretty cool and unique (tauon cannon ready!). Could be broken to all hell too |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
188
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Posted - 2017.03.15 21:48:28 -
[19] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:A8ina wrote:The role of Battleships in EVE Universe ?
Why should I use Battleship ? Nobody really needs you to want to fly a battleship. We really have enough other people who want it because it's big, so if you're happy flying cruisers then more power to you. I'd give battleships more hit points; now that they finally got their mobility nerfs they need the buff that sets them properly aside--not just underneath--battlecruisers. Once upon a time battleships were basically expensive battlecruisers.
And fix battleship sized guns so they can hit things easier and give them role bonuses. I want more battlecruisers and battleships in the game. We have too many frigates and cruisers. |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
8
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Posted - 2017.03.16 12:34:22 -
[20] - Quote
Why Battleships? Because no one likes travelling faster than 2.0 AU/s anyway... |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
3040
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Posted - 2017.03.16 15:35:55 -
[21] - Quote
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:And fix battleship sized guns so they can hit things easierstop hitting so easily and give them role bonuses. YES! I want more battlecruisers and battleships in the game. ME TOO! We have enough frigates and /could use more\ cruisers /too\. I doodled a bit on your post.
This bit is important: People see clearly that battleships underperform when compared to combat battlecruisers. Battleships have a bit more DPS and hit points, but are much slower and have WAY more trouble hitting targets. People think "oh I have the perfect solution! Obviously, the reason battlecruisers dominate is because of their tracking (true), so if battleships get more tracking they will be fixed!!
IF BATTLESHIPS GET MORE TRACKING, THEY WILL ONCE AGAIN JUST BE EXPENSIVE BATTLECRUISERS
What to do? Give them something different. They already have a pretty significant DPS advantage, they can use modules that cost a lot of powergrid. CCP is moving in the right direction by adding heavy modules. (We could use a few medium or cruiser modules!) Give battleships the staying power to make their dominance count for something. Give them truly battleship-sized shield extenders and armor plates, so big that battlecruisers can't fit them. Increase their base hit points a bit, too. They already have the ability to fit giant armor repairers and shield boosters.
I'd go so far as to cut T2 cruiser logi down to using medium modules and then give people a logi battleship for the big ones. Giant fleets of battleships that sit there mostly immobile holding ground and using logi webs to reinforce their defense should not be getting repaired by cruisers. They should have battleships doing that. Battleship logi would be much less mobile but much more tenacious. Cruiser logi should have shorter range and considerably lower repair rate.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3200
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Posted - 2017.03.16 15:56:11 -
[22] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote: What to do? Give them something different. They already have a pretty significant DPS advantage, they can use modules that cost a lot of powergrid. CCP is moving in the right direction by adding heavy modules. (We could use a few medium or cruiser modules!) Give battleships the staying power to make their dominance count for something. Give them truly battleship-sized shield extenders and armor plates, so big that battlecruisers can't fit them. Increase their base hit points a bit, too. They already have the ability to fit giant armor repairers and shield boosters.
There isn't enough grid left to fit modules any bigger already. |
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
44
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Posted - 2017.03.16 16:25:35 -
[23] - Quote
What about if Armor and Shield extenders are restricted in class for Frigates-Destroyers-Cruisers-BattleCruisers-BattleShips-CapitalShips |
A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
44
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Posted - 2017.03.16 16:35:21 -
[24] - Quote
What about narrowing the gap in between Battle-Ships and Capital Ships |
Ersahi Kir
Dark 0rder. The Devils' Rejects
430
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Posted - 2017.03.16 17:24:11 -
[25] - Quote
It has been a while since I've been "in the know" but these are the problems I remember with battleships as far as null sec alliances go:
1. 125 mb/s droneboats (ishtar specifically) putting out battleship dps with battleship projection 2. jump fatigue on jump freighters (hard to seed markets) 3. carrier sentry blobs being silly
I'm not sure of current null sec meta, but I know that they've tried to make changes to 3 with fighter changes and splitting off logistics. I see that they have made changes to ishtars, so I'm not sure of the current status of 1. I'm not sure about 2, but it may be murky with fozzysov.
Battleships still do what they do well though. T3 cruisers haven't replaced them in incursions, ratting, or L4 missions. The problem is that the game meta is all about avoiding fights you can't win, which is where the battleship is weak.
Navy battleships do need to get looked at though, most of them are bad choices for everything. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3202
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Posted - 2017.03.16 18:07:36 -
[26] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:It has been a while since I've been "in the know" but these are the problems I remember with battleships as far as null sec alliances go:
1. 125 mb/s droneboats (ishtar specifically) putting out battleship dps with battleship projection 2. jump fatigue on jump freighters (hard to seed markets) 3. carrier sentry blobs being silly
I'm not sure of current null sec meta, but I know that they've tried to make changes to 3 with fighter changes and splitting off logistics. I see that they have made changes to ishtars, so I'm not sure of the current status of 1. I'm not sure about 2, but it may be murky with fozzysov.
Battleships still do what they do well though. T3 cruisers haven't replaced them in incursions, ratting, or L4 missions. The problem is that the game meta is all about avoiding fights you can't win, which is where the battleship is weak.
Navy battleships do need to get looked at though, most of them are bad choices for everything.
1. The Ishtar is no longer the monster it used to be. It was put back into it's HAC place and is not taking BS spots in potential doctrines.
2. JF fatigue is not enough to stop pirate BS fleet from being a thing so seeding is not the problem.
3. Carrier sentry blobs no longer exist since carrier can't use sentries anymore.
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Ersahi Kir
Dark 0rder. The Devils' Rejects
431
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Posted - 2017.03.16 18:16:59 -
[27] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Ersahi Kir wrote:It has been a while since I've been "in the know" but these are the problems I remember with battleships as far as null sec alliances go:
1. 125 mb/s droneboats (ishtar specifically) putting out battleship dps with battleship projection 2. jump fatigue on jump freighters (hard to seed markets) 3. carrier sentry blobs being silly
I'm not sure of current null sec meta, but I know that they've tried to make changes to 3 with fighter changes and splitting off logistics. I see that they have made changes to ishtars, so I'm not sure of the current status of 1. I'm not sure about 2, but it may be murky with fozzysov.
Battleships still do what they do well though. T3 cruisers haven't replaced them in incursions, ratting, or L4 missions. The problem is that the game meta is all about avoiding fights you can't win, which is where the battleship is weak.
Navy battleships do need to get looked at though, most of them are bad choices for everything. 1. The Ishtar is no longer the monster it used to be. It was put back into it's HAC place and is not taking BS spots in potential doctrines. 2. JF fatigue is not enough to stop pirate BS fleet from being a thing so seeding is not the problem. 3. Carrier sentry blobs no longer exist since carrier can't use sentries anymore.
I'm glad to see 1 and 3 go, those were cancer to the game.
But if 2 isn't a factor anymore and we have pirate battleship blobs, then I'm not sure what the thread is about. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3203
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Posted - 2017.03.16 18:47:32 -
[28] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ersahi Kir wrote:It has been a while since I've been "in the know" but these are the problems I remember with battleships as far as null sec alliances go:
1. 125 mb/s droneboats (ishtar specifically) putting out battleship dps with battleship projection 2. jump fatigue on jump freighters (hard to seed markets) 3. carrier sentry blobs being silly
I'm not sure of current null sec meta, but I know that they've tried to make changes to 3 with fighter changes and splitting off logistics. I see that they have made changes to ishtars, so I'm not sure of the current status of 1. I'm not sure about 2, but it may be murky with fozzysov.
Battleships still do what they do well though. T3 cruisers haven't replaced them in incursions, ratting, or L4 missions. The problem is that the game meta is all about avoiding fights you can't win, which is where the battleship is weak.
Navy battleships do need to get looked at though, most of them are bad choices for everything. 1. The Ishtar is no longer the monster it used to be. It was put back into it's HAC place and is not taking BS spots in potential doctrines. 2. JF fatigue is not enough to stop pirate BS fleet from being a thing so seeding is not the problem. 3. Carrier sentry blobs no longer exist since carrier can't use sentries anymore. I'm glad to see 1 and 3 go, those were cancer to the game. But if 2 isn't a factor anymore and we have pirate battleship blobs, then I'm not sure what the thread is about.
It's about epople who think BS should be the be all end all solution to God know what and so pretend BS aren't viable and then people look around for anything that might be the reason why. Battleships as a class are usable. The T1 lineup is currently in an odd spot meta wise but still usable in some case. The abundance of pirate BPC has put the faction ones in a bad spot tho. They are clearly inferior to pirates ones but rarely worth the money because the LP they require to get are better used on many other stuff so nobody sink them into BS. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
3040
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Posted - 2017.03.16 18:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:There isn't enough grid left to fit modules any bigger already. There is on the Maelstrom if you fit autocannons (in fact it's hard to find a way to use it all), but battleships could use a slight increase in powergrid along with all these things. Their current values were made many years ago way back when the only thing battleships spent powergrid on were the guns.
A8ina wrote:What about if Armor and Shield extenders are restricted in class for Frigates-Destroyers-Cruisers-BattleCruisers-BattleShips-CapitalShips Howabout no. Give us an X-Large shield extender that costs 1800MW and a 3200mm armor plate that costs 3000MW and you won't need to restrict them. Is it possible to fit one to a battlecruiser? Yes. Is that a bad thing? NO, NO IT ISN'T.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1146
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Posted - 2017.03.16 18:52:05 -
[30] - Quote
t3 battleships solve everything even universe it self.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
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