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Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
12
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Posted - 2017.03.16 19:07:45 -
[31] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:t3 battleships solve everything even universe it self. I would like to think so, but as we've seen CCP is horrible at implementing new balanced features (T3D, Rorqual, Fighters). This isn't a criticism per say, but their track record speaks for itself. So T3Bs would become the new meta/doctrine and run amok for 1-2 years until CCP figures out how to un-f*ck them. During which time life will become miserable for everyone else. Meanwhile, wormholers everywhere rejoice!
Don't believe me? Just wait until these new CONCORD ships are made available (they'll be equivalent to a $400 investment, so if you think they're going to be subpar you can guess again). |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3203
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Posted - 2017.03.16 19:22:56 -
[32] - Quote
Drake Aihaken wrote:
Don't believe me? Just wait until these new CONCORD ships are made available (they'll be equivalent to a $400 investment, so if you think they're going to be subpar you can guess again).
They won't be anywhere as powerful as you think a 400$ investment would bring because it's not a 400$ investment but a gift. Chances are most will stay docked 100% of the time until CCP make them more available than one batche. |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
13
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Posted - 2017.03.16 19:44:24 -
[33] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:They won't be anywhere as powerful as you think a 400$ investment would bring because it's not a 400$ investment but a gift. Chances are most will stay docked 100% of the time until CCP make them more available than one batche. You could be right. This could also be testing the waters for future microtransactions involving unique ships, modules, etc. Look, null-sec is so wealthy it can buy whatever it wants anyway, so EVE is already effectively Pay2Win for certain elite groups. Microtranscations just level the playing field for everyone else not space rich.
There are two ways to expand your revenue: Increase the number of players or find new ways of offering new value-added services for your existing membership. This is typically where F2P leads, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that this might be in the cards for the near future. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1646
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Posted - 2017.03.16 21:17:48 -
[34] - Quote
Drake Aihaken wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:They won't be anywhere as powerful as you think a 400$ investment would bring because it's not a 400$ investment but a gift. Chances are most will stay docked 100% of the time until CCP make them more available than one batche. You could be right. This could also be testing the waters for future microtransactions involving unique ships, modules, etc. Look, null-sec is so wealthy it can buy whatever it wants anyway, so EVE is already effectively Pay2Win for certain elite groups. Microtranscations just level the playing field for everyone else not space rich. There are two ways to expand your revenue: Increase the number of players or find new ways of offering new value-added services for your existing membership. This is typically where F2P leads, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that this might be in the cards for the near future.
There is a slight difference in blobbhh to win and pay to win.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
44
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Posted - 2017.03.17 00:30:48 -
[35] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Matthias Ancaladron wrote:And fix battleship sized guns so they can hit things easierstop hitting so easily and give them role bonuses. YES! I want more battlecruisers and battleships in the game. ME TOO! We have enough frigates and /could use more\ cruisers /too\. I doodled a bit on your post. This bit is important: People see clearly that battleships underperform when compared to combat battlecruisers. Battleships have a bit more DPS and hit points, but are much slower and have WAY more trouble hitting targets. People think "oh I have the perfect solution! Obviously, the reason battlecruisers dominate is because of their tracking ( true), so if battleships get more tracking they will be fixed!! IF BATTLESHIPS GET MORE TRACKING, THEY WILL ONCE AGAIN JUST BE EXPENSIVE BATTLECRUISERSWhat to do? Give them something different. They already have a pretty significant DPS advantage, they can use modules that cost a lot of powergrid. CCP is moving in the right direction by adding heavy modules. ( We could use a few medium or cruiser modules!) Give battleships the staying power to make their dominance count for something. Give them truly battleship-sized shield extenders and armor plates, so big that battlecruisers can't fit them. Increase their base hit points a bit, too. They already have the ability to fit giant armor repairers and shield boosters. I'd go so far as to cut T2 cruiser logi down to using medium modules and then give people a logi battleship for the big ones. Giant fleets of battleships that sit there mostly immobile holding ground and using logi webs to reinforce their defense should not be getting repaired by cruisers. They should have battleships doing that. Battleship logi would be much less mobile but much more tenacious. Cruiser logi should have shorter range and considerably lower repair rate.
I like your constructive approach to the issue relating to my post .
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
3041
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Posted - 2017.03.17 05:34:04 -
[36] - Quote
A8ina wrote:I like your constructive approach to the issue relating to my post. Oh really? =)
A8ina wrote:T3 Battle Cruisers do equal / or higher\ DPS & Alpha as well as range and Trac king as Battleships, but their speed and agility makes them more suited for Blitzkrieg attacks ; but their speed can be used as a defensive tactic to rival the Battleships HP / defense\ , therefore making them more equally effective in Fleet battles/ while being superior at getting in and out of them, all for a /LOWER PRICE TAG\. Well you going to say BS have better chance if they get remotely repaired but usually most of the BS pOp on the first Fleet barrageYou can't say battleships have a defensive advantage with logi on the field when even a medium fleet of attack battlecruisers can alpha a battleship off the field.(Which is why I'm arguing for more hit points!)The Battleships still need some love to set them apart !! Editing posts is fun.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Ersahi Kir
Dark 0rder. The Devils' Rejects
432
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Posted - 2017.03.17 08:41:36 -
[37] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:It's about epople who think BS should be the be all end all solution to God know what and so pretend BS aren't viable and then people look around for anything that might be the reason why. Battleships as a class are usable. The T1 lineup is currently in an odd spot meta wise but still usable in some case. The abundance of pirate BPC has put the faction ones in a bad spot tho. They are clearly inferior to pirates ones but rarely worth the money because the LP they require to get are better used on many other stuff so nobody sink them into BS.
I would agree for the most part. BB's are appropriate when damage projection and tank are useful, but mobility is not. Otherwise you're using the wrong tool for the job.
But I think 3 things should happen: 1. Review T1 battleships. They don't all have to have equal use, but make sure they all have a reasonable niche. 2. Rebalance T3 cruisers. Address the OP subsystems, fix the UP subsystems. 3. Fix navy battleships (or any navy ship for that matter, but focus on navy battleships). They're terribly bad right now, and many of them are functionally flawed so they're worse than the T1 versions. 4, Punch and Pie. Yum
Other than that I'm fine with how things are. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1649
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Posted - 2017.03.17 11:12:33 -
[38] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:....But I think 3 things should happen: 1. Review T1 battleships. They don't all have to have equal use, but make sure they all have a reasonable niche. 2. Rebalance T3 cruisers. Address the OP subsystems, fix the UP subsystems. 3. Fix navy battleships (or any navy ship for that matter, but focus on navy battleships). They're terribly bad right now, and many of them are functionally flawed so they're worse than the T1 versions. 4, Punch and Pie. Yum
Other than that I'm fine with how things are.
1. Only Big Miker and a few other know how to fly them properly, not CCP's fault
2. agreed or better delete them
3. You meant fix navy battleship pricetags
4. I like pi, it's 3.142356... - ouuuh you pie, never mind.. (my hips )
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
49
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Posted - 2017.03.17 14:41:09 -
[39] - Quote
What about targeting changes around 50's for Cruiser Class & 60's for B-Cruiser Class So BattleShips Class has superiority on targeting range around 100's and an increase of L-Weapons range to accommodate the targeting range. |
Ersahi Kir
Dark 0rder. The Devils' Rejects
437
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Posted - 2017.03.17 16:33:18 -
[40] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Ersahi Kir wrote:3. Fix navy battleships (or any navy ship for that matter, but focus on navy battleships). They're terribly bad right now, and many of them are functionally flawed so they're worse than the T1 versions. 3. You meant fix navy battleship pricetags
No, fix the ships themselves.
Tempest Fleet - complete garbage Typhoon Fleet - split weapon bonuses are bad. This use to have the highest damage of any missile platform at 8.25 effective launcher, but lost a lot paper DPS because of bad application. With the barghest sporting 9 effective launchers it's bad on every level. The only advantage it has is 125 mb of unbonused drones, but that doesn't make up for it being unimpressive.
Megathron Navy - I don't know anyone who would consider a regular megathron to a navy megathron as an upgrade path. You either go to a vindicator or a kronos. Even if it only cost 10m extra to get a navy megathron I doubt it would be worth it. Domi Navy - just what everyone wants, split weapon bonuses on what is possibly the best T1 battleship. If they copied and pasted the bonuses from the T1 domi it would be top shelf with the extra mid, as it stands it's laughably bad.
Apocalypse Navy - decently useful. Probably the best navy battleship right now. Armageddon Navy - no idea, doesn't look bad but doesn't get a lot of play either (my exposure to this ship is limited)
Raven Navy - It use to be a good ship that was a reasonable upgrade from a T1 raven. It's still ok, but the 9 effective turret barghest overshadows it now. Scorpion Navy - it has a small window of being good for lower sp characters. Once someone starts maxing out enough skills it falls off hard to the golem, rattlesnake, and barghest.
The problem with these ships isn't the cost compared to T1 battleships, it's that these ships often fail to be upgrades to them. |
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1653
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Posted - 2017.03.17 17:01:53 -
[41] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:...No, fix the ships themselves.
Tempest Fleet - complete garbage Typhoon Fleet - split weapon bonuses are bad. This use to have the highest damage of any missile platform at 8.25 effective launcher, but lost a lot paper DPS because of bad application. With the barghest sporting 9 effective launchers it's bad on every level. The only advantage it has is 125 mb of unbonused drones, but that doesn't make up for it being unimpressive.
Megathron Navy - I don't know anyone who would consider a regular megathron to a navy megathron as an upgrade path. You either go to a vindicator or a kronos. Even if it only cost 10m extra to get a navy megathron I doubt it would be worth it. Domi Navy - just what everyone wants, split weapon bonuses on what is possibly the best T1 battleship. If they copied and pasted the bonuses from the T1 domi it would be top shelf with the extra mid, as it stands it's laughably bad.
Apocalypse Navy - decently useful. Probably the best navy battleship right now. Armageddon Navy - no idea, doesn't look bad but doesn't get a lot of play either (my exposure to this ship is limited)
Raven Navy - It use to be a good ship that was a reasonable upgrade from a T1 raven. It's still ok, but the 9 effective turret barghest overshadows it now. Scorpion Navy - it has a small window of being good for lower sp characters. Once someone starts maxing out enough skills it falls off hard to the golem, rattlesnake, and barghest.
The problem with these ships isn't the cost compared to T1 battleships, it's that these ships often fail to be upgrades to them.
Careful with that comparison. One must not forget the law of ship progression. It goes:
Pirate faction >>>>> Navy faction / t2 >>>>> t1
- Comparing a Megathron Navy Issue to a vindicator or kronos is an accurate observation to this law.
- Rattlesnake uses 2 weapon systems as the end of all battleships progression and is placed like this: Rattlesnake >>>>>> Navy Dominix (a very, very, very large Vexor which also uses 2 weapon systems but the kids in faction warfare can only win a fight if they try to make every droneboat a Curse but only the Curse is a Curse, so stop trying) >>>>> Dominix
- The Apocalypse Navy Issue / Armageddon Navy Issue are in the right spot
Nightmare >>>>>>>>>> Navy Apoc / Navy Armageddon != Paladin >>>>> Apocalypse / Armageddon
- It goes Barghest >>>>>> Raven Navy Issue / Scorpion Navy Issue != Golem >>>>> Raven
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
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Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
80
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Posted - 2017.03.17 22:18:14 -
[42] - Quote
Battleships need some role bonus unique or "stolen" from another ship. First example: 300% bonus to armor plates and shield extenders (No need to make new 3200mm plate with silly Power grid numbers). Second Example: 150% bonus to light drones damage and hitpoints. Add some more drone bay m3 to Battleships. Third Example: 60% more tracking against frigates and 30% against Dessies and Cruisers. Forth Example: Cant miss more than 8 times in a row. 9th hit will hit for damage.
They need for sure a role bonus to make them viable again. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1653
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 22:30:04 -
[43] - Quote
Atomeon wrote:Battleships need some role bonus unique or "stolen" from another ship. First example: 300% bonus to armor plates and shield extenders (No need to make new 3200mm plate with silly Power grid numbers). Second Example: 150% bonus to light drones damage and hitpoints. Add some more drone bay m3 to Battleships. Third Example: 60% more tracking against frigates and 30% against Dessies and Cruisers. Forth Example: Cant miss more than 8 times in a row. 9th hit will hit for damage.
They need for sure a role bonus to make them viable again.
Nobody is stopping you from fitting an immobilizer mod or grappler.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1148
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Posted - 2017.03.18 03:22:20 -
[44] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:elitatwo wrote:Ersahi Kir wrote:3. Fix navy battleships (or any navy ship for that matter, but focus on navy battleships). They're terribly bad right now, and many of them are functionally flawed so they're worse than the T1 versions. 3. You meant fix navy battleship pricetags No, fix the ships themselves. Tempest Fleet - complete garbage Typhoon Fleet - split weapon bonuses are bad. This use to have the highest damage of any missile platform at 8.25 effective launcher, but lost a lot paper DPS because of bad application. With the barghest sporting 9 effective launchers it's bad on every level. The only advantage it has is 125 mb of unbonused drones, but that doesn't make up for it being unimpressive. Megathron Navy - I don't know anyone who would consider a regular megathron to a navy megathron as an upgrade path. You either go to a vindicator or a kronos. Even if it only cost 10m extra to get a navy megathron I doubt it would be worth it. Domi Navy - just what everyone wants, split weapon bonuses on what is possibly the best T1 battleship. If they copied and pasted the bonuses from the T1 domi it would be top shelf with the extra mid, as it stands it's laughably bad. Apocalypse Navy - decently useful. Probably the best navy battleship right now. Armageddon Navy - no idea, doesn't look bad but doesn't get a lot of play either (my exposure to this ship is limited) Raven Navy - It use to be a good ship that was a reasonable upgrade from a T1 raven. It's still ok, but the 9 effective turret barghest overshadows it now. Scorpion Navy - it has a small window of being good for lower sp characters. Once someone starts maxing out enough skills it falls off hard to the golem, rattlesnake, and barghest. The problem with these ships isn't the cost compared to T1 battleships, it's that these ships often fail to be upgrades to them.
More or less agreed with this
I did try some time ago to put forward change to typhoon fleet that would remove gun bonus that hull currently has for a drone one nothing dps oriented more like optimal / range / tracking or drone mwd speed so that drone bay can be utilized to the fullest.
Ship it self is hella fast having drones bonus for speed to close range gap fast kinda fits and ship would be more deadly no question about it without direct dmg increase or direct missile application bonus making it just another missile spammer.
I believe this version of dual/split weapons could work flawlessly another problem with trying to fix gun side of a ship it would stomp on a already pathetic fleet tempest and its okish tier one tempest as well i am just against going all missile route for diversity sake keep drones and do something with that drone bay.
But after arguments that it's a "shame"(wtf that have to do with balancing a ship?) for it to loose its gun bonuses and that it would be so OP that it would depopulate tranquility in 3 days flat i gave up on any kind or rational discussion and drop it altogether.
Proposing this in and around alliance tourny didn't help as well since fleet phoons were staple BS choice in there and we all know how true reflection it is being in jove space with pre arranged ships and teams in a range bubble how truthful that transfers to tranquility.
but i digress all empire faction battleship need to be looked upon.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1148
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Posted - 2017.03.18 03:31:46 -
[45] - Quote
Drake Aihaken wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:t3 battleships solve everything even universe it self. I would like to think so, but as we've seen CCP is horrible at implementing new balanced features (T3D, Rorqual, Fighters). This isn't a criticism per say, but their track record speaks for itself. So T3Bs would become the new meta/doctrine and run amok for 1-2 years until CCP figures out how to un-f*ck them. During which time life will become miserable for everyone else. Meanwhile, wormholers everywhere rejoice! Don't believe me? Just wait until these new CONCORD ships are made available (they'll be equivalent to a $400 investment, so if you think they're going to be subpar you can guess again).
Yeah wishful thinking on my part they are incapable of bringing in balanced content for one reason or another cant blame something i don't know anything of.
I am too interested to see new concord lineup and see what money / gift will bring to servers.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
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elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1653
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Posted - 2017.03.18 07:19:08 -
[46] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:....I am too interested to see new concord lineup and see what money / gift will bring to servers.
CONCORD Marshal Battleship bonus per level:
250% ECM strength
20% less CPU needs for system cloak jammer
75% Energy turret damage
10% Energy turret tracking
10% Armor repair module effectiveness
20% less capacitor use for armor repair modules
12.5% stasis webifier effectiveness
120% stasis webifier range
1000% stasis grappler optimal and falloff
5% stasis grappler effectiveness
125% warp scrambler and disruptor range
125% optimal range and falloff for all electronic warfare modules
120% nosferatu effectiveness and range
40% neutralizer effectiveness and range
120% logistic drone hitpoints / warp drive speed, hitpoints and effectiveness
1200% remote armor repair and remote shield booster optimal range and falloff
15% capacitor use for remote armor repair modules and remote shield boosters
Role Bonus:
- Can fit system wide cloaking jammer
- A successful target lock reduces all resistances on the target to 0%
- Can fit CONCORD ECM
- Immune to all forms of electronic warfare
- Interdictor nullified
- Starburst enhanced
- Can fit infini-drive
- No stacking penalties for any penalized module
- Can only fit one ECM module
- Can only fit up to 3x heatsinks
- -75% damage and tracking for all weapon systems (not including energy turrets or drones)
Slot layout:
- 8 highslots (4x turret hardpoints no launchers) - 6 midslots - 8 lowslots
1000m-¦ dronebay / 125mbit
- 1200 CPU - 25000 powergrid - 24000 capacitor / 180 second capacitor recharge - 15000 shield hp / 120 second shield recharge time (with 75/75/75/75 resistance) - 15000 armor hp (80/80/80/80 resistance) - 15000 hull hp (50/50/50/50) resistance)
- 200km targeting range - 275mm sensor resolution - 450m/s base speed - 45 agility - 12 target locks
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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A8ina
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
50
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Posted - 2017.03.18 16:57:32 -
[47] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:....I am too interested to see new concord lineup and see what money / gift will bring to servers. CONCORD Marshal Battleship bonus per level: 250% ECM strength 20% less CPU needs for system cloak jammer 75% Energy turret damage 10% Energy turret tracking 10% Armor repair module effectiveness 20% less capacitor use for armor repair modules 12.5% stasis webifier effectiveness 120% stasis webifier range 1000% stasis grappler optimal and falloff 5% stasis grappler effectiveness 125% warp scrambler and disruptor range 125% optimal range and falloff for all electronic warfare modules 120% nosferatu effectiveness and range 40% neutralizer effectiveness and range 120% logistic drone hitpoints / warp drive speed, hitpoints and effectiveness 1200% remote armor repair and remote shield booster optimal range and falloff 15% capacitor use for remote armor repair modules and remote shield boosters Role Bonus: - Can fit system wide cloaking jammer - A successful target lock reduces all resistances on the target to 0% - Can fit CONCORD ECM - Immune to all forms of electronic warfare - Interdictor nullified - Starburst enhanced - Can fit infini-drive - No stacking penalties for any penalized module - Can only fit one ECM module - Can only fit up to 3x heatsinks - -75% damage and tracking for all weapon systems (not including energy turrets or drones) Slot layout: - 8 highslots (4x turret hardpoints no launchers) - 6 midslots - 8 lowslots 1000m-¦ dronebay / 125mbit - 1200 CPU - 25000 powergrid - 24000 capacitor / 180 second capacitor recharge - 15000 shield hp / 120 second shield recharge time (with 75/75/75/75 resistance) - 15000 armor hp (80/80/80/80 resistance) - 15000 hull hp (50/50/50/50) resistance) - 200km targeting range - 275mm sensor resolution - 450m/s base speed - 45 agility - 12 target locks
This will definitely solve the BS problem |
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