Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Rekindle
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 19:35:00 -
[1]
I'm back from a long break from Eve seeing if I can get back into this game a little bit. Before I left I was doing a lot of industry related activities mainly relating to mining materials and building battleships. Stupid me went and got my hangar blown up in space as I was one shotted through hi sec empire. I'm not going to derail my own thread by saying how lame I think it is to for someone to sit beside a sentry gun and blow up a hauler but anyway......After a while it became more fun to watch paint dry then to grind back my industrial production capabilities.
I'm back now to see what's changed and I see some disturbing trends. I'm checking the prices in SL on the cost of an T1 battleships and I'm noticing that all of the T1 ships are at an all time low and prices are trending down.
Now this is not a "CCP please inflate the costs of T1 ships" so I can make isk post but I do ask some legitmate questions (and I really am just asking):
First off : why are the prices dropping? Obviously demand is dropping. Is it because people who previously operated these T1 battleships are beginning to move on to bigger better T2 ships? Is it because bpcs are so efficient now that the material requirement is less?
How would you reccommend an industrialist build up their wallet again? (I realize there are many ways). It seems to me that if I were to buy the bpc's to build something like an apoc and if I were to do it 'the old fashioned way', it would be a major waste of time due to the potential to actually loose money on the finished product.
Frankly this leaves me with the feeling that, although many systems have gotten some loving over the last couple years, people who partake in the tradeskill aspects of Eve are not seeing value added benefits to their chosen path in the Eve universe. Some how people who do tradeskills equate to people who enjoy tedium.
Eve has always been a PvP centric game, I realize. However, I find the game to be a bit alienating unless your a massochist macro miner or have time to sit with a headset on for 6 hours a night in blob formation waiting to gank anything that steps through.
I'd love to mine in 0.0 but obviously that requires a committment to a corp and alliance which means x, y and Z. Consider my a casual gamer looking for more then empire living.
Ultimately, I'm wondering if there is even a place for me in the eve universe given this 'left out' feeling that I have. Maybe its for the best because the game can't be everything to everyone.
|
Xtro 2
Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 19:41:00 -
[2]
BS may have the damage potential vs some other ships, but they soak far too much damage from pretty much everything to be worth using, the new Tier2 BC and other ships manage just as well and tank considerably better.
I cant think of much use for BS apart from the use of heavy NOS/NEUTS, if you remove those, battleships are pretty worthless compared to BC/HAC/Command ships.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Ash Vincetti
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 19:43:00 -
[3]
Quote: First off : why are the prices dropping?
Look at the price of Zydrine, Megacyte and Nocx. Then compare to the updated low-end mineral prices, and you'll see where the new benchmark is. -----
|
Rekindle
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 19:46:00 -
[4]
interesting. i've played a lot of MMOs and one thing that an expansion has always done is devalue the content that came before it. On a much more gradual trend, I guess Eve is no exception.
Its akin to sitting in West Commonlands back in the day grinding light stones to sell for 2p when you could be off in some other brand new zone making far far more money doing something completely different.
-------------------------------------------
|
Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 20:00:00 -
[5]
I dont think it was really intentional at this point, remember t1 prices are always heavily dependent on mineral values since anyone can make them. Heres whats going on...
Theres a huge war amongst the 0.0 residents, including the guys in the north that usually dont get in wars and spend all their days mining crokite. Also theres new drone regions that drop lots of rare minerals. Both these factors mean everyones selling off tons of zydrine, and the price has gone to the ****ter.
Invention is out, which has killed T2 prices, and some of the stuff you need comes from COSMOS perma-farmed systems. Also we have rigs/salvaging, and a lot of people who might otherwise be mining highsec ore have switched to farming this new stuff, so less non-macros producing common mins. Add to this massive dred/carrier losses from said huge 0.0 war boosting demand for common mins, and you have skyrocketing pyer, trit, mex prices. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
|
SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.05.01 20:43:00 -
[6]
trade in a single solar system ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Hohne
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 11:54:00 -
[7]
Generally, Zydrine and Nocxium have fallen now more than enough to counter the rise in low ends, so prices are falling.
As for BS prices, they are very very close to mineral cost in areas where supply is high, but you can still make a profit in areas where supply is lower.
|
BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 12:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rekindle
First off : why are the prices dropping? Obviously demand is dropping. Is it because people who previously operated these T1 battleships are beginning to move on to bigger better T2 ships? Is it because bpcs are so efficient now that the material requirement is less?
No, it's because there are a lot of people making very bad business decisions and are subsidising ship production by mining the minerals themselves.
Quote: How would you reccommend an industrialist build up their wallet again? (I realize there are many ways). It seems to me that if I were to buy the bpc's to build something like an apoc and if I were to do it 'the old fashioned way', it would be a major waste of time due to the potential to actually loose money on the finished product.
You'd be right. I've recycled battleships and sold the minerals for a profit. The people who are buying those minerals are making money off the construction - the one thing you can be absolutely certain about is that they're not using those minerals to build battleships.
Quote: Frankly this leaves me with the feeling that, although many systems have gotten some loving over the last couple years, people who partake in the tradeskill aspects of Eve are not seeing value added benefits to their chosen path in the Eve universe. Some how people who do tradeskills equate to people who enjoy tedium.
In my opinion, the single most exciting experience is taking part in an Agony PVP gang. However, the second most exciting experience was when I was doing product development work for an industrial corp. One of us would say "I think we can make some money on product X" - the teamspeak server would immediately take a hammering as we pricechecked that item in five or more different regions, investigated the BPC and BPO markets, worked out the cost of the materials and devised a marketing strategy for the item we were going to build.
The one piece of specific advice that I'll give you for free is this: Download MLCalc.
------ Agony Unleashed is recruiting. www.agony-unleashed.com
Some people kill for money. Some people kill for politics. Some people kill for religion. I kill because it's fun. |
Ione Hunt
Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 12:33:00 -
[9]
My tip: Check out invention.
Up till now, this char was focused on PVP, but since invention came along, I completely changed profession. There's good money to be made from invention. The initial investment is a bit high, but you'll make that ISK back in no time
Can't help you with T1 production. I suck at mining (mining lvl2), and I've never produced a single ship in my life (except for invented T2 ships). _______________
|
sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 12:56:00 -
[10]
welcome back rekindle :)
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
|
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 13:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Rekindle Ultimately, I'm wondering if there is even a place for me in the eve universe given this 'left out' feeling that I have. Maybe its for the best because the game can't be everything to everyone.
Strange, there are some industrialists I know who are having the best time in their Eve career. Earning billions a month, the ****ers.
I would agree that the time make money on building battleships is passed. But there must be stuff out there that has a good profit margin on it.
I don't really know, but I am sure with a bit of work you could find out for yourself.
|
Hannobaal
Gallente Utopian Frontier
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 13:47:00 -
[12]
There 's a lot of money to be had in rig manufacture.
------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Magnum III
Journey On Squad
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 15:22:00 -
[13]
It seems to me the players are getting their skills up.
And now they are able to make the BS's for alot lower isk then the average player can ever hope to catch up to.
Infact I noticed everthing is lower now and just about nothing is worth making your self.
Unless your skills are allll the way up there.
|
Magnum III
Journey On Squad
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 15:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Magnum III on 02/05/2007 15:31:10
Originally by: Hannobaal There 's a lot of money to be had in rig manufacture.
I was just wondering how is it that people are wanting these rigs, they pretty much have lame plusses to them for the isk.
They are not worth it IMO.
I hope for your sake that players do not finaly get over the newness to rigs and realise they are lame.
CCP should give at least as good as plusses to them as a module in a slot.
at least being able to switch them out of ships would make them way more worth it.
CCP make rigs better, everyone should know that CCP made them weak to begin with on purpose to test what players will go for.
and what is with them haveing to all have a minus to them? Why? simular modules do at least twice as much do not even have minuses to them just a plus.
|
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 15:35:00 -
[15]
Battleships still are the main bread and butter for fleet. For small gangs roaming about, battleships are slow, and hence a liability.
But on a number scale, More battleships are selling now than ever before, and I dont know of a single corpmate without several battleships, to be used on the front line. Its not so much that battleships price reflects that it is devalued, its that other ships have a different role. The effect of price is that insted of 40mil of zydrine to build a battleship, the zydrine price has came down, and hence the cost of buying battleships is appropriatly modified. --
Billion Isk Mission |
LeavesOfYgdra
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 15:51:00 -
[16]
BS = Insurance= not so much wallet pain T2 ships = NO Insurance = 100% loss
thats the 1st reason for using a BS fr almost anything in EVE
Something should be done about that, dont you think?
|
Hannobaal
Gallente Utopian Frontier
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 16:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: LeavesOfYgdra BS = Insurance= not so much wallet pain T2 ships = NO Insurance = 100% loss
thats the 1st reason for using a BS fr almost anything in EVE
Something should be done about that, dont you think?
Not really true (unless you were exagerating on purpose). You can insure t2 ships. It's just that you only get back the building cost of the ship. But, since the demand is a lot higher than the supply, t2 ships are way overpriced. That means insurance usually doesn't even begin to cover the actual market cost of the ship. It's not a 100% loss though.
------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Hannobaal
Gallente Utopian Frontier
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 16:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Magnum III Edited by: Magnum III on 02/05/2007 15:31:10
Originally by: Hannobaal There 's a lot of money to be had in rig manufacture.
I hope for your sake that players do not finaly get over the newness to rigs and realise they are lame.
I'm not that much into manufacturing. I do it ocassionally to make a few millions when I need it. If rigs stopped being profitable I would just do something else.
------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 16:18:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/05/2007 16:19:01 Yes, the reasons are mineral prices. There are so many BPOs out there and so many potential builders that the profit margin is thin and follows closely the mineral prices.
That it's harder to make profit is not CCPs fault, but that the competition has become harder. There are more producers now, who fight for the market. So either you find a niche that noone else has filled yet or you have to compete with people, who invest a lot of time and effort, work with max-skills, spreadsheets and place their buy-orders in the right places.
I know, when I was a new it was quite easy to make a bit isk with productions. Buy some mins, build torps and cruise and sell them at 2-4 times the build cost to mission runners or close to a chokepoint in 0.0. It was also easy to earn a lot of isk as a newbie with trade-runs with a simple indie. But the more people get into it and tougher and less profitable it gets and those, who don't do it 'professionally' are the first, who have to give up.
For a casual producer I think the best is to look for a market, where the competition is not so tough, like 0.0 and low-sec. Sure, the demand is low there, you can only sell low quantity compared to Jita and Rens, but people are often willing to pay a bit more and since the competition is not that tough, you aren't undercut every 5 minutes and need to watch the market non-stop.
(It's this way if you try to sell invented stuff in Rens. There are the one-isk-undercutters, who sit there the whole evening watching the market and are always undercutting by one isk or even less. Once I've splitted my sell-order in 10 small ones and fought back immediately, so when he had just undercut me by 0.1 isk, I did the same a few seconds later, but got boring and I just wanted to **** him off a bit. ) ___________ Muuuhhh !!! |
Onchas Erivvia
The Andromeda Directorate SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 16:22:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rekindle Before I left I was doing a lot of industry related activities mainly relating to mining materials and building battleships.
<snip>
I'm back now to see what's changed and I see some disturbing trends. I'm checking the prices in SL on the cost of an T1 battleships and I'm noticing that all of the T1 ships are at an all time low and prices are trending down.
Uhh...the Tech 1 market for everything (including ships) has been tied to mineral prices for a long time now. Pretty much everything in a busy market area sells for its component mineral value by a perfect builder.
There are a tonne of builders out there which keeps the prices down. The price floor is naturally determined by the mineral values of a refined ship/component. If the good drops below it's component mineral value, a perfect refiner simply buys it, grinds it, and sells the minerals.
If you go to a saturated market you're not going to make more money than you would just selling the minerals if it's Tech 1 build stuff.
If you mine, build and sell you still can make money. You have to find yourself an out of the way market and supply it. Some of the places that are best are level 3 and 4 mission running spots and gateway systems into 0.0. Most of those are very short on ammo, ships, and components -- especially now that freighters drop loot.
------------------------------------------ 'Teh Onchinator' Personal Assistant to MrsPitman |
|
Savage Manticore
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 16:36:00 -
[21]
Rigs are far from lame. They effectively add 3 more low/med slots to your ship. Think about it, if you can have a Typhoon with 10 lows, wouldnĘt you want it? Well, with rigs you can. Yes, some of the rigs are less worthwhile than others (hardener rigs mainly), but some of them totally pwn. Cap recharge rigs, armor rep amount rigs, even grid rigs can make a real difference in your overall ship power. True, some of the rigs have significant drawbacks, but not all of them do, and drawbacks can be reduced by half by training the appropriate skill.
Yes, rigs are quite costly, but that is exactly because they are so useful, and because it takes significant player time to farm the salvage needed to build them. As more and more new players learn to take advantage of salvage, I think the prices of rigs will come down somewhat, but they will never totally crash unless the salvage tables are changed significantly because it will always take a significant time investment to gather the required salvage.
|
Hannobaal
Gallente Utopian Frontier
|
Posted - 2007.05.02 16:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Savage Manticore Yes, rigs are quite costly, but that is exactly because they are so useful, and because it takes significant player time to farm the salvage needed to build them. As more and more new players learn to take advantage of salvage, I think the prices of rigs will come down somewhat, but they will never totally crash unless the salvage tables are changed significantly because it will always take a significant time investment to gather the required salvage.
Most rigs are selling above their building cost though, and a few are selling far above their building cost. And that's in Jita. You sell them in other markets they sell for even more in most cases (although they sell slowly).
------------------ "If you ever need anything, please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |