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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari
790
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Posted - 2017.04.14 15:34:44 -
[151] - Quote
That is excellent political analysis.
However, current government hijacked their position on the grounds that war is a viable solution. Changes made in our system were intended to support that position.
If the war is not coming, we should definitely in the very least go back to the organization of the Republic that was geared for industrial growth and strengthening the nation, and stop pouring resources to a toy war. Wasting our time and resources in playing war is having the worst of both worlds, and serves only to make sure we will lose in the end.
Valat kalleimmatkin lailla virvatulten häviää
On polte suudelmain vain harhaa häipyvää
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Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
4426
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Posted - 2017.04.14 16:23:06 -
[152] - Quote
We agree.
AKA Hambone
Author of The Deathworlders
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Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
983
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Posted - 2017.04.14 18:17:21 -
[153] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:There is no peace to be had, so this pretense and lie of peace is outright deplorable in its dishonesty.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion Through passion I gain strength Through strength I gain victory Through victory my chains are broken Excessive force will set me free.
-old Minmatar proverb.
I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
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Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2212
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Posted - 2017.04.14 19:10:29 -
[154] - Quote
Tyrel Toov wrote:Mizhara Del'thul wrote:There is no peace to be had, so this pretense and lie of peace is outright deplorable in its dishonesty.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion Through passion I gain strength Through strength I gain victory Through victory my chains are broken Excessive force will set me free. -old Minmatar proverb.
You made that up.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Teinyhr
Ourumur
851
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Posted - 2017.04.14 23:24:43 -
[155] - Quote
When you are in a pinch, make something up. -Old Vherokior proverb |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2217
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Posted - 2017.04.15 05:21:46 -
[156] - Quote
Never enough Dakka More Dakka Dakka Dakka Dakka
~ Gunnery Crew Proverb, to be screamed out as loudly as possible while firing all overheated autocannons with blatant disregard for all notions of accuracy.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3151
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Posted - 2017.04.15 12:17:57 -
[157] - Quote
I would like to remind to everyone to not listen to dissidents, who have betrayed Caldari State and hide themselves in some Maker-forsaken wormholes instead of doing their duty to the State: they can't speak for Caldari anymore. Especially when they foolishly claim they belong to us or that we "don't want war with Federation" or even that "the homeworld is back under our control".
It is a pure sabotage of discussion and insult to honor of Caldari State. Caldari Prime is still partly occupied by foreigners, and this is a common knowledge, that you don't need to dig encyclopedias for.
Shame to pro-gallentean traitors, who insult Caldari state by trying to claim they are one of us.
We have a WAR with Gallente Federation. Trade attempts with enemy of the State and calls for peaceful resolution while our lands are still under gallente oppression, is a TREASON.
Burn traitors with a fire! And Glory to the State!
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
125
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Posted - 2017.04.22 17:05:32 -
[158] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:I worked for Amarr Empire's Ministry of Internal Order briefly and was sent to exterminate illegal slavers.
I'm sure you were, Ms. Kim. The Amarr want to keep up apearances, after all. They get to pretend they don't allow such actions while eliminating those whose incompetence threaten to reveal to all that they are still doing such things. |
Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
557
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Posted - 2017.04.26 03:54:22 -
[159] - Quote
Ah, it's been a while since I have seen Elsebeth poking holes in the absurdity that is the post-Shakor Matari state.
I cannot say I wish her success. The Matari state would be far more dangerous if individuals like Midular were still in charge.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari
808
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Posted - 2017.04.26 07:12:27 -
[160] - Quote
Why, Lok'ri, I have totally not missed you either.
Still, that must be the sweetest thing you've ever said to me.
Valat kalleimmatkin lailla virvatulten häviää
On polte suudelmain vain harhaa häipyvää
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
557
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Posted - 2017.04.26 08:11:38 -
[161] - Quote
Who said I didn't miss you? Having an opponent with some class is a welcome change from the Blooders and Shakorites that I usually deal with.
I must say it has been amusing watching people who don't know you try to figure out what you were getting at.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari
808
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Posted - 2017.04.26 08:19:23 -
[162] - Quote
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:Who said I didn't miss you? Having an opponent with some class is a welcome change from the Blooders and Shakorites that I usually deal with.
I must say it has been amusing watching people who don't know you try to figure out what you were getting at. You say the nicest things.
I look forward to seeing you in space, then.
Valat kalleimmatkin lailla virvatulten häviää
On polte suudelmain vain harhaa häipyvää
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
557
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Posted - 2017.04.26 11:29:33 -
[163] - Quote
You know where I live. I would be happy to shoot you for old times sake.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari
808
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Posted - 2017.04.26 11:35:21 -
[164] - Quote
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:You know where I live. I would be happy to shoot you for old times sake. Not for the current times, Admiral?
Have you lost your faith in the toy war?
Valat kalleimmatkin lailla virvatulten häviää
On polte suudelmain vain harhaa häipyvää
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
557
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Posted - 2017.04.26 11:55:24 -
[165] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Gaven Lok'ri wrote:You know where I live. I would be happy to shoot you for old times sake. Not for the current times, Admiral? Have you lost your faith in the toy war?
Well, given that I ran into your people attacking imperial territory alongside the Matari Militia today, I guess we can kill each other for current time's sake as well.
The "toy" war is doing it's job. The drain on Shakorite resources helps prevents future surprise attacks, which is worth the effort and expense.
Now if you want to talk about working towards actual peace and are willing to reform the Matari state in a way that makes such a peace sustainable, then maybe we could talk about not killing each other for current time's sake.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari
808
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Posted - 2017.04.26 12:03:41 -
[166] - Quote
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:Well, given that I ran into your people attacking imperial territory alongside the Matari Militia today, I guess we can kill each other for current time's sake as well.
The "toy" war is doing it's job. The drain on Shakorite resources helps prevents future surprise attacks, which is worth the effort and expense.
Now if you want to talk about working towards actual peace and are willing to reform the Matari state in a way that makes such a peace sustainable, then maybe we could talk about not killing each other for current time's sake.
I heard of that. And yes, I suspect we will, though I would personally prefer otherwise.
I am open to hearing all suggestions to what I, personally, could do to bring up peace. As you so bluntly point out, the current situation is not working in our advantage; however, the price you are paying is very high, too. Maybe peace would be best for all.
Valat kalleimmatkin lailla virvatulten häviää
On polte suudelmain vain harhaa häipyvää
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
557
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Posted - 2017.04.26 13:15:33 -
[167] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote: I heard of that. And yes, I suspect we will meet on the field, though I would personally prefer otherwise.
I am open to hearing all suggestions to what I, personally, could do to bring up peace. As you so bluntly point out, the current situation is not working in our advantage; however, the price you are paying is very high, too. Maybe peace would be best for all.
Peace might be best. It is past time for the Empire to build internally.
A cold war followed by another surprise attack would be worse than the current situation, unfortunately.
As for what we can do, well are we talking peace between Electus Matari and the Praetoria or peace between the Matari and Amarrian states?
For the latter, getting rid of the governmental absurdities of the last decade seems like a good start on your side. As well as something I believe you already want to do. I would hope you replace them with something more rational than a Republic, but even that is better than the current monstrosity.
On our side, I would imagine that the factions of the empire that favor peaceful rather than violent reclaiming would need to stay in charge and that the emancipation of Matari populations would need to continue at a fairly rapid pace. But we are at the beginning of a new reign, so who knows what is possible. If the Empress willed such a course, I would follow.
As for PIE and EM, well, I expect we each have demands for the other before either could even consider the idea of not shooting each other on sight. If you wish to open communications on that front while our respective states are still at war, do send me a note. Most likely it would come to nothing, I expect, but I personally would be open to the discussion. I think we have a common enemy in the people who hijacked your government, so there might be some common ground.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Icecream Audit Office Electus Matari
808
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Posted - 2017.04.26 13:58:25 -
[168] - Quote
I have neither the authority nor the will to negotiate a peace between EM and PIE. Any such talks would have to follow government decisions to disarm - not precede them.
As to governments - "just get rid of the absurdity". If it only was for lack of trying.
Valat kalleimmatkin lailla virvatulten häviää
On polte suudelmain vain harhaa häipyvää
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
557
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Posted - 2017.04.26 14:43:06 -
[169] - Quote
Indeed, if only it were so easy.
*Gaven shrugs*
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Ioannis Sepphiros
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2017.04.26 20:04:48 -
[170] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:It's been almost ten years since Malaetu Shakor stepped into office as the Republic's prime minister (later 'Sanmatar'). While more patient minds cautioned against it, many clans supported him, because he made them promises of new glory, of a full-out war at last, the final throwing off our shackles. At his inaugural speech, he seemed confirm their hopes: "Sons and daughters of Matar, make no mistake about it. [---] Let it be known from this day forth that we are a race of warriors, not slaves, and that we will fight to the last drop of blood for what we hold dear." Almost a decade. Not slaves but warriors. And what do we have to show for it? Oh, we have fought the Militia wars. We have even won it, for a short while, and some of us have metal to show for it. But where was the push on from that victory? The Empire was in turmoil, we held the field, slaves were returning and turning into warriors, and then what? The next step is causing a controversy with his choice of companion and attire? I am sure our sisters and brothers still in the darkness rejoiced and complimented his bravery. Where is our war, Sanmatar Shakor?
Either I completely understand what Miss Rhiannon is trying to pose as argument or I have lost the whole subject in its entirety. I would like however, to offer my opinion in this,and will begin by making a grouping of the main arguments raised before the initial thread as to see where we all are at.
Argumentation grouping 1) The Republic cant/shouldnt enter a total war cause....war,economics, lack of technology etc etc
Argumentation grouping 2) The wars are sort of pointless. The Republic needs help and work. There is a good chance the Republic can negotiate with the Empire.
Argumentation grouping 3) Personal Remarks towards Miss Rhiannon
Leaving argumentation grouping 3 aside as its not my position take part in matters such as these, I will add that to me at least argumentation grouping 1 and 2(as could provide for interesting debate materials on other topics) have completely missed the points raised by Miss Rhiannon, at least as I understood them.
Here is what I understood:
1) The Empire could get a lot better both economically and military wise and that couldnt actually be good for the Republic(hence the comments on where the Republic stood in the past and comments about lost opportunities)
2) The fact that a 'merchant' Empress is at the helm of the Empire isnt reassuring in itself.
3) What are the Tribal opinions and course of action of how the Republic should proceed?
4) Fighting for freeing more Minmatar has been the spark and the unifying symbol for all. Let alone the lives that were dedicated towards that goal and more importantly the lives lost for that one, and as added bonus, what about the ones being still enslaved by the Empire?
Now, I would like the author(if so she pleases to do so) to state whether or not I have understood correctly what she intended to convey.
I wont state my personal opinions on the matter as a sign of respect towards the author of this topic. I will say however, that its my belief that anyone who has invested into this war(regardless of how much and in what way) understands fundamentally how each faction works and what makes it tick. With that being said, the only personal remark I will leave into this, is that I would like to see a debate held from individuals who have been part of this endeavor for a long time, from the Republic side, over what they think over the points that have been raised by Miss Rhiannon(and why not add to them?).
All this assuming I understood correctly what the author was aiming at. |
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1995
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Posted - 2017.04.26 21:46:59 -
[171] - Quote
I swear, the single page in which only Admiral Lok'ri and Ms. Rhiannon were involved has been the productive in the entire thread. Just goes to show what can happen when the level-headed and articulate are given enough space to speak.
Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle
Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade
Lord Consort of House Sarum
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Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7473
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Posted - 2017.04.26 22:16:19 -
[172] - Quote
Ioannis Sepphiros wrote: 2) The fact that a 'merchant' Empress is at the helm of the Empire isnt reassuring in itself.
This should be completely reassuring. A Merchant will understand that the Empire will never improve their baseline efficiency while maintaining the social and cultural institution of slavery. A Merchant will understand that the slaves are, at once, the biggest stumbling block in negotiations between the Matari tribes and the Empire and also the Empire's biggest pool of negotiating collateral.
This should be a thing to rejoice at.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1873
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Posted - 2017.04.26 22:50:44 -
[173] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:I swear, the single page in which only Admiral Lok'ri and Ms. Rhiannon were involved has been the productive in the entire thread. Just goes to show what can happen when the level-headed and articulate are given enough space to speak. Welcome to the igs... |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3273
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Posted - 2017.04.27 00:18:22 -
[174] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:I swear, the single page in which only Admiral Lok'ri and Ms. Rhiannon were involved has been the most productive in the entire thread. Just goes to show what can happen when the level-headed and articulate are given enough space to speak.
You mean the page where both of them said 'peace would be nice, but we have no authority to actually make it happen'?
Yeah. Totally productive. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2280
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Posted - 2017.04.27 01:43:49 -
[175] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Ioannis Sepphiros wrote: 2) The fact that a 'merchant' Empress is at the helm of the Empire isnt reassuring in itself.
This should be completely reassuring. A Merchant will understand that the Empire will never improve their baseline efficiency while maintaining the social and cultural institution of slavery. A Merchant will understand that the slaves are, at once, the biggest stumbling block in negotiations between the Matari tribes and the Empire and also the Empire's biggest pool of negotiating collateral. This should be a thing to rejoice at.
As I mentioned way previously, this is the Republic's best shot at getting anything out of the Empire, because for once there is a pragmatic Empress whom the Republic can negotiate with.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3278
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Posted - 2017.04.27 01:57:12 -
[176] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote: As I mentioned way previously, this is the Republic's best shot at getting anything out of the Empire, because for once there is a pragmatic Empress whom the Republic can negotiate with.
Unless she feels her own personal interests are best served by cutting deals with the zealots within the Empire, rather than the pragmatists who aren't likely to get close enough to bury a dagger in her back. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2283
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Posted - 2017.04.27 01:59:45 -
[177] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote: As I mentioned way previously, this is the Republic's best shot at getting anything out of the Empire, because for once there is a pragmatic Empress whom the Republic can negotiate with.
Unless she feels her own personal interests are best served by cutting deals with the zealots within the Empire, rather than the pragmatists who aren't likely to get close enough to bury a dagger in her back.
A shot is still a shot.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
563
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Posted - 2017.04.27 03:05:06 -
[178] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Aldrith Shutaq wrote:I swear, the single page in which only Admiral Lok'ri and Ms. Rhiannon were involved has been the most productive in the entire thread. Just goes to show what can happen when the level-headed and articulate are given enough space to speak. You mean the page where both of them said 'peace would be nice, but we have no authority to actually make it happen'? Yeah. Totally productive.
I think expecting actual peace talks to come from a ninth page discussion on the IGS would be a bit unrealistic.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7480
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Posted - 2017.04.27 03:08:18 -
[179] - Quote
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:Arrendis wrote:Aldrith Shutaq wrote:I swear, the single page in which only Admiral Lok'ri and Ms. Rhiannon were involved has been the most productive in the entire thread. Just goes to show what can happen when the level-headed and articulate are given enough space to speak. You mean the page where both of them said 'peace would be nice, but we have no authority to actually make it happen'? Yeah. Totally productive. I think expecting actual peace talks to come from a ninth page discussion on the IGS would be a bit unrealistic.
I'm pretty sure that Shakor and Empress Catiz are holding out for at least eleven pages.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
564
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Posted - 2017.04.27 03:17:26 -
[180] - Quote
Seriously speaking, though, it was interesting and you never know what will develop.
If EM ever decides that the usurpers have gone far enough that they can no longer play the loyal opposition, then PIE might be open to ending hostility with EM and perhaps even in working with them against the usurpers.
Now, I doubt, strongly, that they will ever take me up on this offer. I expect that their loyalism to the Republic is strong enough that it blinds them to the fact that the state they are loyal to died almost a decade ago. I also expect that the optics of being neutral towards Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris while working against their own people would be a more bitter pill than they could ever stomach.
But if I am wrong about either of those assumptions, I would be pleased to hear it.
To elaborate on my initial statement about Elsebeth's post: I do not wish Elsebeth luck in restoring the pre-war situation because that situation was dangerous and foolish and directly produced the current idiocy. However, I do pray that God aids Elsebeth and other intelligent Matari like her in finding a solution that will produce a lasting peace rather than another cold war. I will even go so far to say that I promise that I will personally do what I can to aid that goal should the opportunity arise.
Admiral of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Divine Commodore 24th Imperial Crusade
Holder. Vassal of the Emperor Family
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