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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2263
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Posted - 2017.03.21 13:16:10 -
[1] - Quote
I played some games that were subscription based and introduced micro transactions. Some things about those were really great and others nearly killed the games.
(+) A lot of people wonGÇÖt ever pay monthly subs for various reasons. Because they are not allowed to (Parents, Wives, Caregivers), because they donGÇÖt want to (Reservation/ Preconceptions) or because of the cultural and economic background. Micro Transactions are a way to offer those people a way to GÇ£only pay what/when you playGÇ¥. GÇ£HideGÇ¥ it on their mobile bill in small sporadic amounts to make everyone happy. Illogical? Maybe. New group of potential customers? For sure. Morally questionable? I wonGÇÖt judge as I was hiding a game on my phones bill myself.
(+) In a lot of countries gaming happenes a lot in cyber cafes. When the potential customers have to pay for the PC and Internet per hour it is only logical to have more payment options for games than just per month. And in some countries everything is usually sold in small units and hardly anyone buys anything ahead, no matter the possible bargain. I like playing with people form counties in South America, Africa, India and Oceania. I would be glad if CCP used the Micro-PLEX to offer GÇ£gaming zoneGÇ¥ compatible payment options for those players without an own PC and an internet flat rate.
(+) A smoother transition from trial to full sub. The old system was a bit off-putting: Two/three weeks for testing and then a GÇ£pay up or walk awayGÇ¥ decision. If I understood that right the first time a customer pays money for a product is a critical step. Because people want to keep using what they paid for, even if they spend only a small amount. As you can test EVE forever now, the barrier to spend the first real money on the game should be as low as possible.
(+) You can easily sell services that some players would like to have but most donGÇÖt care about much and definitely donGÇÖt want to pay for with their sub. Like digital collectors cards with original artwork. As long as you sell nice looking fluff items the buyers are happy and the non-buyers donGÇÖt care.
(-) Biggest risk is that you drive off your subbed player base. I saw this happen more than once. The key is not to sell ANYTHING needed for regular game play that is not also included in the sub or drops ingame at an exactable rate. Or to create artifical paywalls and make all playes pay extra to pass those. I played a former sub only game where certain endgame feats where only trainable when you had the right semi-rare ingame items. At some point those items didnGÇÖt drop at all anymore and where only assessable by the game shop, even for fully subbed players. Some players duped them, some players rage-quitted and only a few kept playing. One mistake - being too greedy once- and you may start a mass exodus. I hope CCP wouldnGÇÖt make such a big mistake, like -let's say- jump fatige removal tokens.
(-) There are a lot of trashy pure Micro-Transaction games that were built to rip customers off from day one. Very outdated graphics, stolen game design, artificial paywalls everywhere. Those games gave Micro Transactions a bad reputation and any game using this payment option is now suspicions by default. MT are a hit to the reputation and should be handled with care.
What advantages or risks did other players experience with micro transactions in subscription only games? |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
721
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Posted - 2017.03.21 13:31:17 -
[2] - Quote
Well written but what is the purpose here? There are already microtransactions in EvE and I don't think CCP is stupid enough to introduce gold ammo into the it, because why? Killing already niche game?
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
If you need a scout mail me.
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
231
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Posted - 2017.03.21 13:57:07 -
[3] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Well written but what is the purpose here? There are already microtransactions in EvE and I don't think CCP is stupid enough to introduce gold ammo into the it, because why? Killing already niche game? In terms of Gold ammo, I wouldn't mind if CCP allowed the new Micro-Plexes to be loaded into festival launchers as firework ammo.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2266
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Posted - 2017.03.21 13:57:18 -
[4] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Well written but what is the purpose here? There are already microtransactions in EvE and I don't think CCP is stupid enough to introduce gold ammo into the it, because why? Killing already niche game?
EVE only scratched the surface of what Micro Transactions can be and I am really curious what other players witnessed. I hear WoT tossed around a lot but I didn't play that one. I "only" know Elder Scrolls, Wildstar, Lord of the Rings, Dungeon & Dragons and StarWars:The old Republic. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2266
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Posted - 2017.03.21 13:58:50 -
[5] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote: In terms of Gold ammo, I wouldn't mind if CCP allowed the new Micro-Plexes to be loaded into festival launchers as firework ammo.
That would be like a EVE player says "I love you"? Showering the loved one in sparkling golden Micro-Plexes? |
Qwerty Ernaga
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2017.03.21 14:33:57 -
[6] - Quote
*editing |
Nate Hill
Rocket No. 9
55
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Posted - 2017.03.21 14:52:45 -
[7] - Quote
CCP needs to earn enough to live on. Existing microtransasctions are acceptable so far. I hope they can get enough and remember to upgrade EVE to EVE2 instead of Dust514, Valkyrie or whatever else. |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2271
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Posted - 2017.03.21 15:14:17 -
[8] - Quote
Qwerty Ernaga wrote:
Well only game I ever played with subs and micro transactions that give SERIOUS gameplay advantage is EVE. The main risk is spending too much money on the game, because it offers mentioned serious advantages.
This is the very same with all MMOs with micro transactions no matter of subs... In EVE it-¦s kinda worse because you pay sub and money for micro transactions over it as a bonus.
That-¦s why I left (last straw being skill injectors, another "purse pressure") and that-¦s why I will never come back or play any other game with similar model.
What made you quit the game but not the forum (for now) is what made me stay in EVE after I started a few month ago. If you pay the sub and throw in a PLEX now and then you don't have to grind at all. I already have a job, I don't want a second one in my free time. I don't ,mind when Microtransactions let you catch up with the crowed, but they should not set you ahead.
Spending to much money on a hobby is very relative. When I bother to bring lunch from home that's enough money saved for a PLEX. What I like with EVE is that cheap T1 Frig/Dessi fights can be more fun than Billion ISK Black Ops. |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
330
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Posted - 2017.03.21 15:32:59 -
[9] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Well written but what is the purpose here? There are already microtransactions in EvE and I don't think CCP is stupid enough to introduce gold ammo into the it, because why? Killing already niche game? We already have gold ammo: Skill injectors.
In the end, it doesnt really matter if you buy a skill that gives +10% damage or ammo that gives +10% damage. The result is the same. |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
1283
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Posted - 2017.03.21 15:36:50 -
[10] - Quote
This video is the best argument for and against micro-transactions out there in my opinion. While old, EVE was at the target center of it when they introduced 'the monocle'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI
This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.
"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2271
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Posted - 2017.03.21 15:46:25 -
[11] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote: We already have gold ammo: Skill injectors.
In the end, it doesnt really matter if you buy a skill that gives +10% damage or ammo that gives +10% damage. The result is the same.
When we compare one newbie to another you are 100% right. The injectors can be a huge boost. For veteran players not so much, they can use T2 weapons anyway and weapon specialization V is only 2% more base damage over IV. I think that was quite clever by CCP. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
466
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Posted - 2017.03.21 15:47:46 -
[12] - Quote
I'll point out one gigantic flaw, or benefit depending on viewpoint, and that is plex. Plex serves as a mechanic to allow legal RMT in one direction only, supposedly to put off isk farmers and account hackers. It allows you to convert one hour of real work into X hours of isk farming in eve, so now to the problem. If I can obtain X hours worth of isk, which is only attainable by putting yourself at risk normally, then why would I go the slow route and farm X hours? I'd just buy a plex to sell for isk to fund whatever.
When players are required to invest time in your game, they have to find the game enjoyable, which means creating content they will enjoy. If players don't have to invest time, but only log in for :content: someone else has created we are going to run out of 'someone elses' eventually.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2271
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Posted - 2017.03.21 15:53:48 -
[13] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:This video is the best argument for and against micro-transactions out there in my opinion. While old, EVE was at the target center of it when they introduced 'the monocle' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI
The "monocle" was strange BS for sure. Wrong time, wrong place, wrong price, wrong item, wrong target group, wrong everything. The DeLorean of micro transactions. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
933
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Posted - 2017.03.21 16:51:10 -
[14] - Quote
One thing people forget when discussing skill injectors is that they do not add any new skill points to the game. We happily pay CCP to remove skill points from the game for the ability reallocate a percentage of the points or move them to another character.
We pay CCP the subscription cost to create the SP in the first place. We pay CCP for the extractors to remove them. If the character using the injector has more than 5 million SP, only a portion of the extracted SP are injected.
Does the ability to redistribute skill points equate to "pay to win"? I see no evidence of this after a year. Eve is a game where player knowledge is more important than character skill and winning is whatever you want it to be - there is no predetermined endgame.
CCP have created a revenue source for the company selling extractors. They have created sinks for both ISK and SP in game. They have created options for character progression.
Those with real world cash can buy PLEX, exchange it for ISK and use that to buy SP but they are buying the injectors from other players and the PLEX will eventually be returned to CCP for game time or other services. It's a stable system that seems to be working well. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2103
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Posted - 2017.03.21 17:10:01 -
[15] - Quote
Nate Hill wrote:CCP needs to earn enough to live on.
Sure, no one disputes this. However the traditional method is by increasing your customer base rather than milking the few customers you have for every last drop of disposable income. But it's pretty obvious that after 14 or so years, CCP is either unable or unwilling to effectively market their game. Or their game is so bad that they lose their customers (apart from a few hard core fanatics).
There is no such thing as a "right" to profit. CCP has the right to TRY to make money. If they can't, then the outcome is known by failed businesses everywhere. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
468
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Posted - 2017.03.21 17:38:55 -
[16] - Quote
I can't believe you're rationalising skill injectors. The effect of them is pretty clear, a few people have already maxed characters. Yes they only allow you to transfer points from one character to another but ona personal level they allow you to buy skill points for isk. They are an obvious attempt to get us to spend more $ on the game and nothing more than that.
Literally the only reason eve doesn't feel pay to win, is because we already accept eve isn't fair, because any challenge can be met by dumping numbers on it. Maybe that's the entire appeal of eve, blobbing the ever loving crap out of everything and using that to feel 'elite'.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Teros Hakomairos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2017.03.21 17:57:02 -
[17] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Well written but what is the purpose here? There are already microtransactions in EvE and I don't think CCP is stupid enough to introduce gold ammo into the it, because why? Killing already niche game?
Very naive approach....
CCP opend the MT door to just sell more woman skirts in the market?
Wake up....
they will also sell ingame advantages and the few players that ragequit after that will not bother them because "the subscrition system is outdated and will be obsolet soon".....
Just money counts not tradition......
Welcome to 2017.... |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2618
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Posted - 2017.03.21 18:04:18 -
[18] - Quote
I always love it when folks say we don't already have "gold ammo" in Eve. We have had it almost from the beginning. Multiple accounts let you have a better chance at the T2 BPO lottery when that existed for example and of course multi-boxing.
Being able to sell plexes let you directly turn real life money into game assets and currency. This can give a player a definite edge. If i can buy a better ship than you I have an edge. If I can have more ships than you I have an edge. If I have more isks I can have more power in the market, hire more mercs, have more and better BPOs.
Isks make a difference and if I can buy isks with RL money I get an edge. If I have a huge wallet balance I can be less risk adverse. Even being able to afford a better PC to play Eve on can give someone an edge (or a better internet connection).
There are very real examples of groups using deep RL pockets to gain advantages in the "verse". There are also real world examples of folks turning ISKs into RL money. Folks with deeper pockets have an edge in most things we encounter in our lives.
So Eve pod occupants, you have gold ammo already. Welcome to the "verse". |
Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2274
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Posted - 2017.03.21 19:27:34 -
[19] - Quote
Teros Hakomairos wrote:Jeremiah Saken wrote:Well written but what is the purpose here? There are already microtransactions in EvE and I don't think CCP is stupid enough to introduce gold ammo into the it, because why? Killing already niche game? Very naive approach.... CCP opend the MT door to just sell more woman skirts in the market? Wake up.... they will also sell ingame advantages and the few players that ragequit after that will not bother them because "the subscrition system is outdated and will be obsolet soon"..... Just money counts not tradition...... Welcome to 2017....
You keep posting that everywhere but I still don`t get what is your point. I agree that CCP "opened the MT door" but they did it a loooong time ago. I donGÇÖt see why the split PLEX should enable them to do anything they couldn`t have done before. Without arguing whether skill extractors were good for EVE they were without doubt and in contrary to the monocles an item with an impact on the game play. If there was a time to boycott the store again that would have been the time, the PLEX change is only about payment options yet. If I understand it right the players rage wasn`t fueled by the store itself but the ridicules prices. Why not wait if they do monocles part due and unload your resentments then? Waiting for actual plans to be communicated by CCP rather than making wild guesses what may or may not come isnGÇÖt na+»ve but just composure.
And I donGÇÖt think the player base today is so much different than it was back when the store was introduced. Stores were a new thing to MMOs and new things always create a certain momentum. Things are sorted out now, the EVE store like we have it today is nothing to worry too much about IMHO. And the dynamics on the internet are quite random. A thing happens, everyone hops on, much media coverage, lots of posting. Similar thing happens again and hardly anyone even notices. Novelty bonus away, bad timing, new game more important, not in the mood right now GǪ oh look kittens. In every game I ever played people keep complaining about a quality-decay in the player base or gaming in general. Just like my pop remembers those golden years when the word was a perfect place.
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2274
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Posted - 2017.03.21 19:43:52 -
[20] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:
Sure, no one disputes this. However the traditional method is by increasing your customer base rather than milking the few customers you have for every last drop of disposable income. But it's pretty obvious that after 14 or so years, CCP is either unable or unwilling to effectively market their game.
While CCP marketing strategy may or may not be improvable their success is quite above the average. Compared to Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment for example they are public relation gurus. That CCP found ways to get more money from the longtime players is true. But those are not mandatory. Do you need a cyno account or is it just easier than coordinating with other players? Do you need skill extractors?
The whole FTP thing is all about getting new players and I think the new PLEX system is too as it opens up new markets. To say they do nothing to get news players seems a bit unfair to me. Why do so many people play EVE and hate it at the same time. If there is a world record for "most money paid by your haters" EVE would
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
2107
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Posted - 2017.03.21 20:40:18 -
[21] - Quote
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:MadMuppet wrote:This video is the best argument for and against micro-transactions out there in my opinion. While old, EVE was at the target center of it when they introduced 'the monocle' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI The "monocle" was strange BS for sure. Wrong time, wrong place, wrong price, wrong item, wrong target group, wrong everything. The DeLorean of micro transactions. In another thread you were asking someone if he/she has any base for his/her opinion that 'End is Nigh'. That's what you were asking for. That's CCP. Should this "mistake" be first and only it would be ok. But CCP is known for badly-thought and planned "ideas".
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2275
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Posted - 2017.03.21 20:55:25 -
[22] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: In another thread you were asking someone if he/she has any base for his/her opinion that 'End is Nigh'. That's what you were asking for. That's CCP. Should this "mistake" be first and only it would be ok. But CCP is known for badly-thought and planned "ideas".
Advantages and risks... one can hope that they learned something from back in the days. |
Orakkus
Imperium Technologies DARKNESS.
333
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Posted - 2017.03.21 21:14:06 -
[23] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: But CCP is known for badly-thought and planned "ideas".
I am not saying we let them completely off the hook but compared to how they used to be, and really compared to all other MMOs,. CCP are amazingly responsive and do a solid job of getting customer feedback. So give them credit for it. I've been around see how they used to be and they are WAY better now.
He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Chopper Rollins
Far Beyond Triggered
1802
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Posted - 2017.03.21 23:27:01 -
[24] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote: When players are required to invest time in your game, they have to find the game enjoyable, which means creating content they will enjoy. If players don't have to invest time, but only log in for :content: someone else has created we are going to run out of 'someone elses' eventually.
YOU are the """"""content""""", John.
I do solemnly swear by all things Beelzebub, frustrated game devs clutter these forums horribly with their airy opinions. Where others use the word content, i use the word action. Because i am not a game developer and issues of design or balance are only of concern to me when they affect the in-game action.
Skill injectors are brilliant because they monetize the witless need to leap ahead SP wise, which only indirectly impacts the game because high SP pilots with no game knowledge cannot threaten the map as much as you'd think. Ten day old characters in bling legions are more tasty prey than sudden new lords of the field.
CCP seem to have a handle on this, all the turntable tragics yelping at the DJ about BPM are ruining the party holy crap.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6253
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Posted - 2017.03.21 23:52:24 -
[25] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:I'll point out one gigantic flaw, or benefit depending on viewpoint, and that is plex. Plex serves as a mechanic to allow legal RMT in one direction only, supposedly to put off isk farmers and account hackers. It allows you to convert one hour of real work into X hours of isk farming in eve, so now to the problem. If I can obtain X hours worth of isk, which is only attainable by putting yourself at risk normally, then why would I go the slow route and farm X hours? I'd just buy a plex to sell for isk to fund whatever.
When players are required to invest time in your game, they have to find the game enjoyable, which means creating content they will enjoy. If players don't have to invest time, but only log in for :content: someone else has created we are going to run out of 'someone elses' eventually.
What you are missing is spending time to get the ISK in the first place is not generally considered fun which is why it is called "grinding". Especially early on when you are grinding for skill books and just to be able to buy a second or third ship. The idea of PLEX lets players accumulate enough ISK early on to do more, take more risks, and not have to spend as much time on the boring aspects of the game. Further, it will help redistribute ISK from those with substantial amounts of ISK already to those without. You can buy alot of T1 PVP firgates and the like for a billion ISK.
Seriously what is fun? Mining in a venture? Maybe for some, or selling PLEX and then finding a group to go and have fun in LS or NS? And as the player gains more SP he can develop some of the better ISK streams and become less dependent on PLEX.
Seriously, this idea is about as silly at the dignity of work arguments. These arguments are silly because if I offered a person the same pay at half the hours spent working they'd jump at it. More leisure time and no loss of income? Only a workaholic would turn that down. Work is a cost, labor is a cost. These are things to be minimized. If PLEX represents an improvement for both new players and veterans...who cares?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
29641
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Posted - 2017.03.21 23:57:38 -
[26] - Quote
Fun? People do something for something. Achievements, feels good man. Some people mine weldspar, some people fold paper and make origami. PLEX isnt really needed when you can play for free and achieve for free. And then, when you are maybe slightly more vulnerable, only a bit, when you feel it will really help you feel better, bam, you buy PLEX and buy yourself a beret..
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
724
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Posted - 2017.03.22 07:41:14 -
[27] - Quote
I'm currently playing MT game (not EvE). It's free, has some parts of pvp, good graphic and was made by huge gaming company. There is ingame currency that can be bought with RL money or farmed ingame (insane amount of time). Here a catch, that currency gave you ability to be ingame stronger, you can play without it but it will take time and will lock some content away from you. Some parts of game require pvp to unlock. Now stairs begin, those who spend RL cash will stomp you.
The only advantage of MT - they are free. To unlock the content you'll have to spend more than other regular paid once games.
Is EvE free? Since PLEX introducion, yes. You don't have to pay with RL cash. Just play the game. EvE is rather expensive to me but it's not the problem. I know where to get ISKs, I have fun earning them, win-win. It took me half year to get there.
Is EvE P2W? Sure. You won't win EvE but you will have the advatange over others. P2W is a term that some part of playerbase don't understand. It's not instant gratification, rats won't killed themselfs, explo can won't hack itself, there is no "win" button, you still have to play the game to obtain the goals, you'll just get there easier. Is it unplayable in EvE with P2W? I don't think so.
Now, golden ammo? The first argument behind Skills Trading was that SPs don't matter, experience matter the most. By that logic we should have golden ammo long time ago.
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
If you need a scout mail me.
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2275
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Posted - 2017.03.22 08:16:35 -
[28] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote: When players are required to invest time in your game, they have to find the game enjoyable, which means creating content they will enjoy. If players don't have to invest time, but only log in for :content: someone else has created we are going to run out of 'someone elses' eventually.
As much as I enjoy the shortcuts in EVE I share your concern that with less miners, ratters, haulers and explorers there could be a lack of things to shoot at.
I played a game where you could buy/MT the base materials for crafting at one point because most players loved the crafting system but hated the grind for materials. Once the crafters could MT the base materials a whole niche of the game died and you couldn't find groups for "grinding mats 'n' taling trash on Teamspeak" anymore. The crafters worked all by themselfs and a bit of "ingame culture" died. Along with my profession to buy those materials from the farmer groups and sell them in bulk to the crafters. MT shortcuts can be dangerous and not everything most players want is a good thing for the game in total.
Teckos Pech wrote: What you are missing is spending time to get the ISK in the first place is not generally considered fun which is why it is called "grinding". Especially early on when you are grinding for skill books and just to be able to buy a second or third ship. The idea of PLEX lets players accumulate enough ISK early on to do more, take more risks, and not have to spend as much time on the boring aspects of the game. Further, it will help redistribute ISK from those with substantial amounts of ISK already to those without. You can buy alot of T1 PVP firgates and the like for a billion ISK.
Seriously what is fun? Mining in a venture? Maybe for some, or selling PLEX and then finding a group to go and have fun in LS or NS? And as the player gains more SP he can develop some of the better ISK streams and become less dependent on PLEX.
I think CCP wants to provide all kinds of grinds for ISK. Chilling and repetitive one like mining and ratting, team efforts like incursions, GÇ£cat and mouseGÇ¥ games like exploring, spreadsheet math like trading, puzzles like sleeper data caches and fighting ones like Faction War. But hardly anyone does the puzzles and I guess thatGÇÖs why they didnGÇÖt make more of them. And a lot of players try to avoid the fights in faction wars. ItGÇÖs hard to make fun ways for the players to fund their ships when the players prefer fast, easy and guaranteed ways to make ISK.
One of the things I liked best in D&D Online where the challenges. Maps with random elements that provided nice return for organized groups of players that had a plan, got the timing right and where able to communicate well. Most players preferred to zerg the same quest mindlessly over and over again, even if the reward per hour was less. And, I am not kidding, in the end you could buy the challenge rewards with MT. But the game was already dead by then anyway. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
968
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Posted - 2017.03.22 09:34:51 -
[29] - Quote
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:What I like with EVE is that cheap T1 Frig/Dessi fights can be more fun than Billion ISK Black Ops. Well, you don't get very far with just the Black Ops hull...
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2281
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Posted - 2017.03.22 09:48:43 -
[30] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Gregorius Goldstein wrote:What I like with EVE is that cheap T1 Frig/Dessi fights can be more fun than Billion ISK Black Ops. Well, you don't get very far with just the Black Ops hull...
Make that Billions and it still won't be auto-awesome.
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