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JakeMiester
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
24
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Posted - 2017.03.26 00:27:18 -
[31] - Quote
Not gonna say I called this literally a year or so ago but... |
TheInternet TweepsOnline TheInternet
The New Order Gamis Affiliates
45
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Posted - 2017.03.26 00:53:38 -
[32] - Quote
Unless this is a link to a page that says "GF", you're doing this wrong. |
Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium
79
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Posted - 2017.03.26 01:14:33 -
[33] - Quote
JakeMiester wrote:Not gonna say I called this literally a year or so ago but...
Oh it's not like we did not also call you'd harm BB in some way and leave :)
Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.
Youtube channel.
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Linkoman
Dutch East Querious Company Asteria Concord.
15
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Posted - 2017.03.26 01:58:05 -
[34] - Quote
BB is the only reason I'm still playing Eve today, and I'm really sad to see it go. Thanks Tempelman N and all the other old FCs which made the Bombers Bar a great place to be. RIP |
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
9473
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Posted - 2017.03.26 02:01:01 -
[35] - Quote
22b? - boring. |
Mei Long
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
0
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Posted - 2017.03.26 03:22:22 -
[36] - Quote
In all seriousness, I'd like to thank you and Olmecca for your contributions to Bombers Bar. I've flown in quite a few Bombers Bar fleets in the short time I've been playing EVE, and your contributions have positively contribute to my enjoyment of the game. While I disapprove of your actions, (and quite possibly the actions of the other side too) I do truly appreciate all the hard work you both have put into Bombers Bar.
Thanks!
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Drago Tzu
Holesale Holesale Operations
0
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Posted - 2017.03.26 03:59:46 -
[37] - Quote
You couldn't wait until after SRP was completed for my bomber?!
Can you please SRP my bomber? |
Edwin Bauer
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
6
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Posted - 2017.03.26 04:15:36 -
[38] - Quote
Can I haz free stuff?
That aside, I'm curious to know where most of that isk came from to begin with? Did it come from donations or from the leadership's pockets?
Also what percentage of the Bar's leadership was 'problematic' from your perspective? My point being, couldn't you and other likeminded people remove the problematic ones and keep running the show? I've only flown with the Bar like twice, but both times it great fun and I think the whole idea behind it was amazing. It's a pity to see it ruined by petty drama. |
Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium
79
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Posted - 2017.03.26 04:16:58 -
[39] - Quote
Drago Tzu wrote:You couldn't wait until after SRP was completed for my bomber?!
Can you please SRP my bomber?
Pls send your request to Daenerys Gorp
Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.
Youtube channel.
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Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium
79
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Posted - 2017.03.26 04:25:58 -
[40] - Quote
Mei Long wrote:In all seriousness, I'd like to thank you and Olmecca for your contributions to Bombers Bar. I've flown in quite a few Bombers Bar fleets in the short time I've been playing EVE, and your contributions have positively contribute to my enjoyment of the game. While I disapprove of your actions, (and quite possibly the actions of the other side too) I do truly appreciate all the hard work you both have put into Bombers Bar.
Thanks!
I really appreciate your post. I hope our paths cross again.
When I began this game I tried hard to stay out of political stuff or power play, which I quickly realized was why most relevant people were playing this game. Instead I tried to focus developing my in-game skillset, and hunted alone a lot. That's probably why, when I finally decided playing alone was not enough, I became an NPSI person. No politics, just explosions, if you buy it.
Unfortunately finding yourself in a position of leadership somewhere makes such escape impossible. You start caring about this entity and making it big, more than caring about your own name/experience. But since it's also a collectively owned thing, in a space where other hostile entities exist, political problems arise either from within or externally.
I really wish we weren't in this situation, but here we are. I'll just try to make the best of it.
Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.
Youtube channel.
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Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium
79
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Posted - 2017.03.26 04:59:28 -
[41] - Quote
Edwin Bauer wrote:Can I haz free stuff?
That aside, I'm curious to know where most of that isk came from to begin with? Did it come from donations or from the leadership's pockets?
Also what percentage of the Bar's leadership was 'problematic' from your perspective? My point being, couldn't you and other likeminded people remove the problematic ones and keep running the show? I've only flown with the Bar like twice, but both times it great fun and I think the whole idea behind it was amazing. It's a pity to see it ruined by petty drama.
BB makes its ISK by killing PvE ships in null. It gives one good item each kill to the hunter of that kill, %50 of the rest of the loot to FC (who then distributes it to crucial roles in fleets), and takes other %50 for SRP. SRP wallet usually sustains itself and does not accumulate, but we had a 5 bil / month sponsorship from evebet and just before the ban we were able to receive some 15 billion from I Want ISK. CCP didn't take it. We did not waste that money for rainy days, and fleets made enough ISK for SRP, so it' was still there. So ISK is from kills and leftover from old sponsorships.
BB was found by Tempelman N, who left the game and left the NPSI at the hands of Nova Valentis about 3 years ago. Besides Nova there were about 11 bartenders, 4-5 of which just joined 3 months ago or newer. All these people have amounts and areas of contribution. The new FCs usually listened the others. There were really a couple of people pushing for things to be greater. And a problem was that, because Nova wanted less bureaucracy, there was no strict division of areas which in return caused lots of people to interfere lots of others' contributions. E.g. I had to spend days to convince Nova on how to do things in the website, for which he spent no hours. Thus his understanding of less bureaucracy led to more headache. Below is a pastebin of a mail from me to the rest of the BB people after I got banned, if you want more on how exactly I thought BB was led in a bad way.
http://pastebin.com/DzwQn0E1
The highest influence on decisions was Nova, then me and the other 2 years old FCs and Linus, after whom all the other FCs. To this day I don't know how exactly BB decides to do things, including kicking me or Linus. They just ask in a slack channel and if nobody objects (often nobody responds) then they take it to themselves to kick people. So basically about 5 people (Nova + two 2 year-olds + two 1 year-olds) decided we should go, and the newcomers did not object, also because they were chosen by Nova to be FCs anyway. This Nova+4 group also spent much social time with these newcomers to have influence over them. Linus and I didn't get the chance.
The issue is that this Nova+4 probably spent less overall effort (in total number of hours or just creative contribution) for BB than me + Linus. So idk who has the `moral rights` to BB.
So that's basically what happened. If we had the main channel rights perhaps we would have kicked them instead. But they had it. But we had the website and access to the ISK. Hence drama.
Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.
Youtube channel.
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Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
831
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Posted - 2017.03.26 05:20:49 -
[42] - Quote
TL:DR My brain hurt edition.
Someone "stole" 22b from bombers bar, no-one cares why, or about the "drama"
@JerryTPepridge
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Takedea Miyamoto
Holesale Holesale Operations
0
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Posted - 2017.03.26 06:00:57 -
[43] - Quote
As ****** of a situation as this is, I'd just like to say thanks to the both of you (Olmeca and Linus). Without getting in to the current situation, I can say I have some damn good memories flying under you. Hell Olmeca you even taught me how to rat with a bomber in LS back in late 2014 I think it was? Whatever happens, thank you for the memories, and all you've contributed to EVE /BB. |
Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium
79
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Posted - 2017.03.26 06:41:48 -
[44] - Quote
Takedea Miyamoto wrote:As ****** of a situation as this is, I'd just like to say thanks to the both of you (Olmeca and Linus). Without getting in to the current situation, I can say I have some damn good memories flying under you. Hell Olmeca you even taught me how to rat with a bomber in LS back in late 2014 I think it was? Whatever happens, thank you for the memories, and all you've contributed to EVE /BB.
You don't know how much this kind of posts mean to me. Reminds me that I didn't waste all that effort for nothing. Thanks.
Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.
Youtube channel.
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Tara Read
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
943
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Posted - 2017.03.26 06:57:32 -
[45] - Quote
22 billion isk isn't worth burning yourself over. Excuses aside, BB Leadership is literally retaded but you don't burn yourself over other dumb people. Instead, you make yourself a valuable asset to other groups. If you were as "talented" as you claim you are you could have simply walked away. I'll never quite understand in this late stage in the game and saturation of isk why some people think X is worth trust and reputation. Unless you are leaving with 500 billion + and have an exit strategy and plan or usage for said isk it really isn't worth it. Well maybe just to see BB **** themselves and moan and cry. Now that part is delicious. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1020
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Posted - 2017.03.26 07:01:55 -
[46] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:22 billion isk isn't worth burning yourself over. Excuses aside, BB Leadership is literally retaded but you don't burn yourself over other dumb people. Instead, you make yourself a valuable asset to other groups. If you were as "talented" as you claim you are you could have simply walked away. I'll never quite understand in this late stage in the game and saturation of isk why some people think X is worth trust and reputation. Unless you are leaving with 500 billion + and have an exit strategy and plan or usage for said isk it really isn't worth it. Well maybe just to see BB **** themselves and moan and cry. Now that part is delicious. There's only a handful of people that would actually give a ****. I'm also not looking into joining another corporation or such and taking that ISK wasn't about the ISK at all, it was just a symbolic measure of saying "**** you".
Really, 22B ISK is about 0.2% of my total asset value. I really don't care at all about the ISK.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1020
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Posted - 2017.03.26 07:25:27 -
[47] - Quote
Drago Tzu wrote:You couldn't wait until after SRP was completed for my bomber?!
Can you please SRP my bomber? I paid out every request I had and only after that took off with what was left in the wallets. Processing a non-existent SRP request is a difficult thing to do..
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Sarah Pynchon
Madroplast AG
0
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Posted - 2017.03.26 07:36:14 -
[48] - Quote
Bombers Bar influenced my play style a lot. Therefore I'd like to thank you, Linus and Olmeca, for all the energy you invested into this community. Olmeca's fleets where always great fun. Sad to hear about the Bar's current state. |
Atrol Nalelmir
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
29
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Posted - 2017.03.26 07:48:54 -
[49] - Quote
Linus!
Good to see you are still playing dude! Are you going to take your new found wealth to Menzoberranyr? How's that project of yours going anyway? |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1034
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Posted - 2017.03.26 08:06:16 -
[50] - Quote
Atrol Nalelmir wrote:Linus!
Good to see you are still playing dude! Are you going to take your new found wealth to Menzoberranyr? How's that project of yours going anyway? Nothing at all has been going on in Menzo for over 3 years and I don't see that changing. And me still playing? Ugh, not really, no. I did manage certain aspects of BB on the side, but I really didn't actively play EVE, just joined the occasional fleet every few weeks / months. Haven't done much more for a few years now and due to real life stuff, I don't see that changing any time soon.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3557
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Posted - 2017.03.26 08:49:43 -
[51] - Quote
Finally caught up reading all about the drama, I was not following bombers bar in the last months because my focus ingame went to other activities.
... I was in a couple of Olmeca's fleets, and they were well organized and fun. I know and acknowledge how much effort he put into that (scouting, preparing hunters, traps, new tactics, etc.), ensuring a safe passage and kills for the fleet. A big thank you for that!
But ... Olmeca, revenge is not enough and somewhat cheap IMO. If you believe in your vision about covert warfare and NPSI, you need to take leadership.
Also Jayne's statement about Spectre striving for the good fights, and BB being the bad boys killing the fun is BS, just that. He may think Spectre is all about Saturday's Ganked fleets, but most of the rest and kills is about ganking ratters. Hell, on a single Dizzop ceptor roam we kill more bears than during a week with BB. This is EvE, if you have a fair fight, somebody has done a mistake.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Atrol Nalelmir
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
29
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Posted - 2017.03.26 09:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote: Nothing at all has been going on in Menzo for over 3 years and I don't see that changing. And me still playing? Ugh, not really, no. I did manage certain aspects of BB on the side, but I really didn't actively play EVE, just joined the occasional fleet every few weeks / months. Haven't done much more for a few years now and due to real life stuff, I don't see that changing any time soon.
ohh weird, there was a mail sent out recently to the BB mailing list had Menzo quoted in it, made me think you had restarted it again and it was active, why steal the isk if you're not really playing anyway? Rainy day pvp fund for when you do play? |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1034
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Posted - 2017.03.26 09:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
Atrol Nalelmir wrote:Linus Gorp wrote: Nothing at all has been going on in Menzo for over 3 years and I don't see that changing. And me still playing? Ugh, not really, no. I did manage certain aspects of BB on the side, but I really didn't actively play EVE, just joined the occasional fleet every few weeks / months. Haven't done much more for a few years now and due to real life stuff, I don't see that changing any time soon.
ohh weird, there was a mail sent out recently to the BB mailing list had Menzo quoted in it, made me think you had restarted it again and it was active, why steal the isk if you're not really playing anyway? Rainy day pvp fund for when you do play? Half the channels in that mail are troll channels or not active at all.. Menzo wasn't the only one among them that isn't active.
The 22 billion I took amount to ~0.2% of my total asset wealth. I didn't take the money for the sake of "getting rich" (not with that pocket change, lol), I took it to make a statement. To make a point about how much I despise what BB has become.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1329
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Posted - 2017.03.26 11:23:43 -
[54] - Quote
who cares? 22b? lol.. even I got 40 billion of assets after playing a while.. this pocket money is not even worth a thread
Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
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Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1358
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Posted - 2017.03.26 11:39:36 -
[55] - Quote
It is fascinating observing how grown men interact with each other on the internet
Concord Approved Trader
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Amber Skir
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.03.26 11:39:41 -
[56] - Quote
Templeman N was the only reason to fly with Bombers Bar, when he went BB died. |
Olmeca Gold
Pleonexium
79
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Posted - 2017.03.26 12:11:32 -
[57] - Quote
Amber Skir wrote:Templeman N was the only reason to fly with Bombers Bar, when he went BB died.
If you think so because his charisma, you are right htat there hasn't been such a charismatic FC after him. Nova tried to approximate, but nobody can be him.
If you think so because content, then BB had much better content only after Tempelman. Best bombing runs, new kind of bombing runs, billions of kills, titan kills, supercap kills all happened after Tempelman.
He was a charismatic guy with a great idea for Eve. He wasn't the best person in implementing the idea. For example, whenever he had a whaling fleet, he would often rely on 1 guy hunting a specific target or a region. It was only after him BB realized distributing multiple hunters inside a jumprange, instead of using 1 guy who aims to take all the credit and glory of hunting, was a best practice in covert ops whaling.
Covert Cloaky FC. Sustainable Whaler.
Youtube channel.
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Dracvlad
Tactically Challenged Tactical Supremacy
2943
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Posted - 2017.03.26 12:45:47 -
[58] - Quote
Amber Skir wrote:Templeman N was the only reason to fly with Bombers Bar, when he went BB died.
I would second third and fourth that.
When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.
Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin
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Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
62
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Posted - 2017.03.26 13:00:01 -
[59] - Quote
so you're an attention seeking **** who stole from a npsi group?
noone cares
**** off |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1065
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Posted - 2017.03.26 13:27:46 -
[60] - Quote
Amber Skir wrote:Templeman N was the only reason to fly with Bombers Bar, when he went BB died. Seconded.. Tempelman, while being a massive drama magnet (the biggest I've ever seen, honestly) was also what made BB be BB.. That guy had a real passion for Bombers Bar and covert ops NPSI and he loved taking the guys out..
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
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