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Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 00:33:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 04/05/2007 00:29:56 Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 04/05/2007 00:29:24 I posted this after watching some guys vidi. I am not a shield tanker and did not realise this level of homoeroticness was possible.
Watch the vid for yourself. Linkage although it goes down eventually I find it shocking that we play a game where the geddon in full gank mode STRUGGLES with max skills to kill a n00bish BC with a passive tank!!!! and BC 2 for FFS!!!!!
Originally by: Tibrius Archer Well as far as the video quality is concerned its fine for what it shows.
Have I missed something in eve? Surely a Geddon should be able to annihilate a Drake? Have I missed something? Surely ANY character with 30+ million SP should annihilate ANY character with only 4 million sp in an outclassed ship.
I was not really playing eve when the new BC's came out. Its absolutly shocking that the drake should even take as long as it did to die... Passive shield tanking in a 4m SP character nearly defeating a MAXED, GANKED geddon? What? Shield tankings gone mad? You mention a debate about people saying its impossible to kill solo!!! OMG I can't belive it did so well against a maxed geddon.
I have always attacked the myrm for its stupid slot layout stupid grid/cpu amounts and stupid bonus'. OMG whats going on. New BC's are ruining the game along with the usual NOS-Drone boat setups.
CCP: You fixed kill everything lasers (a while ago now) You fixed kill everything missiles. You fixed Kill everying Scorpions and ECM in general You fixed WCS. You fixed Nanofibres.
Now; Fix NOS Fix blasters (should not take -5% Cpu turret implants to fit a T2 mega) p.s fix their tracking too. Fix myrm and now fix the drake. Fix t2 repper amounts on ships. noboddy reps anymore unless you have you have plex reward mods...
I am big cry baby
Could I have some views? I want to see what my fellow players think of this. I am I just outdated for expecting a MAX BS to take on a n00bish BC win easily?
Also shield tankers I need your education! *****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.05.04 00:41:00 -
[2]
pretty sure i can passive tank a maxed skilled tech 2 raven doing full dmg with each torp against my massive sig radius all day in a nighthawk....
tbo passive tanking is what needs being looked at not just the drake itself, and for what its worth I hear stories the myrm can passive tank better then a drake, although I have yet to see this for myself
Originally by: Stamm Some people might have been convinced by the official announcement posted by Steelrat, but not me, I wasn't convinced until some random alt posts a brand new thread.
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Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 00:54:00 -
[3]
lol The myrm!!! That bastard ship. To be honest I can understand a fully tanked nighthawk should be able to boost a geddons damage away for a short period. (As shield boosting should always be like GANK tanking and armor repairing more long term less damage.) But a myrm doing anything of the sort with its shields is obscene! *****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2007.05.04 00:54:00 -
[4]
Myrm passive tanks betteer than it dual reps, and Drakes are a bit overpowered as it is. After flying the ferox for 9 months, and mixed ships since then, then I hope in a ferox and go attacking battleships and recons...I start to wonder when its going to get nerfed?
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Marquis Dean
Energy.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 00:55:00 -
[5]
Taking whining to new levels of lame...
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Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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Dark Kavar
Caldari Aionios Diadochi The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.05.04 00:58:00 -
[6]
To passive tank like that you have to devote every single slot to tanking, including rig slots. This means no tackling, no e-war, no dps. There is no problem, the only place where this ship is useful anymore is in pve, gate camping, and baiting. This ship cannot solo pvp, it is near useless in small-medium gang pvp, it is useless in large gang-fleet pvp. Stop whining.
Kind of like the Triforce in Zelda, only not quite as potent.
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Matiaj
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Posted - 2007.05.04 00:59:00 -
[7]
Will you people ever realize that passive shield tanking requires a ton of med slots AND low slots.
If you can't break the tank of a passive BC just GTFO and let him rot here. Or kill all his friends and leave.
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente The Underground
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Posted - 2007.05.04 01:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Matiaj Will you people ever realize that passive shield tanking requires a ton of med slots AND low slots.
If you can't break the tank of a passive BC just GTFO and let him rot here. Or kill all his friends and leave.
Passive myrm for pve is powerful but passive myrm for pvp = the tank of dual rep but not the chance of ewar.
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Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 01:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dark Kavar To passive tank like that you have to devote every single slot to tanking, including rig slots. This means no tackling, no e-war, no dps. There is no problem, the only place where this ship is useful anymore is in pve, gate camping, and baiting. This ship cannot solo pvp, it is near useless in small-medium gang pvp, it is useless in large gang-fleet pvp. Stop whining.
Its not that hard just to have a tackler mate with you. We also live in the age of bubbles/dictor bubbles. Having a point on larger ship is less and less of a issue particulally in 0.0. The Warp scram is the only thing missing to make that setup a very valid PVP setup. Even without Ballistic Comps in the lows he can still spam T2 Kinetic Heavys for good damage with bonus.
Yes it maybe seen as a whine.
I am not doing it because I am bored or frighted of drakes. I just really like space combat games and that includes EvE. I want it to remain fun. *****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.04 01:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dark Kavar To passive tank like that you have to devote every single slot to tanking, including rig slots. This means no tackling, no e-war, no dps. There is no problem, the only place where this ship is useful anymore is in pve, gate camping, and baiting. This ship cannot solo pvp, it is near useless in small-medium gang pvp, it is useless in large gang-fleet pvp. Stop whining.
Myrmidon? No dps? as much damage as a nos-domi? :P Also I think you can take out one or two midslots for tank on a myrm and throw on a mwd/scram if you reaaaally want to. __________________________________ <-- Behold, the eve-o forums |
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Ariel Dawn
SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.05.04 03:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Matiaj Will you people ever realize that passive shield tanking requires a ton of med slots AND low slots.
If you can't break the tank of a passive BC just GTFO and let him rot here. Or kill all his friends and leave.
Aye; when a ship is using both all of it's midslots AND lowslots to tank as opposed to only one set of them, it should have a far far superior tank. Drakes can tank near 1.5k DPS T2 fitted passively with top skills but they can't do anything else.
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Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 17:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 04/05/2007 17:20:27 Edited by: Tibrius Archer on 04/05/2007 17:16:49 The Geddon is a Battleship. Battleships as I see it, and as many people see it, is a ship that by very definition of class has to be in the greatest firepower and range bracket in a Navy. Also going back the the origins of the word from the "Ship of the Battle line" statement of old, it is also the only ship capable of withstanding its own salvo multiple times
The passive Drake can seem to withstand the Damage from a battleship and is called a battlecriuser.
Fix it CCP.
For eve classic navel statements ofc do not exactly translate into gameplay. If they made it so I don't think it would be all too fun. But for eve we can use definitions as guides for examples.
The cruiser class in eve is accurate. A cruiser is defined as the smallest ship that can operate independently as a fighting force. Typically as capital ship of a battle group. This translates to me in eve that a cruiser class ship should have at least the potential for reasonable solo PvP. That means the ability to jam and web on its own and do enough damage to defeat some of its own class and all classes below. While reaparing damage at a useful rate. This is true.
Frigate classes are weapon platforms. One weapon cheap mobile designed to fill one role or carry one or carry one special weapon. the Retribution AF is a classic ship in this class. Its mission: "Deliver damage and last somewhat longer than other ships of its class" the job ASSUALT FRIGATE. It cannot really do much more with only 1 mid. Good. The Covo ops ships all are other good examples frigates.
The Dreadnought "Fear God Dread nought" I thinks the phrase. Dreads must have ALL HEAVY GUN designs to be called a dread with all space spent on heavy guns no secondary light guns. Translated to eve, a dread must have an all heavy gun design, no allowance for lighter guns or weapons systems that give it good ability to attack smaller ships and thus must only be of effectiveness against large ships. (the moros drone bay bends this somewhat).
Anyway the point is sort out battlecriusers fix them put them in their place. (myrm, Drake) With all the new T2 classes and extra ships eves becoming quite diverse. This diversity is at the expense of blurred roles and ships that defy there roles. Maybe its time for a 3rd ship bonus on certain groups of T1 ships? (Megathron with MWD bonus)
P.S I understand the openess and freedem of modification that makes eve so great I just hate to see BC's tank forever and Curse's or any drone boat for that matter NOS then explode nearly everthing.
*****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.04 17:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 04/05/2007 17:30:59 The role of the BC in EvE is reversed from real naval warfare. Traditionally a BC had heavy firepower and weaker defenses. They could equal and in some cases surpass the output of a BB but weren't has heavily armored.
CCP wants longer combat in EvE, so this role reversal is pretty logical. Built traditionally a couple of cruisers would kill a Drake, but that Drake's output would equal or exceed a Ravyn's DPS especially against those same cruisers AND be faster than it is now. A Hurricane would exceed a Tempest but have 1/2 the armor and hull. A Myrmi would be almost as nasty as a Domi, but again weaker with fewer lows.
Which is better? Gank or tank? I think the Tank is more fitting for EvE. Without having one or the other the BC is a class with no purpose except to get swarmed and die or pop to bigger ships.
Besides, it isn't like the Drake doesn't die. It was the Privateers 2nd most frequently kill ship after the Caracal <-----------> Keiron: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427556&page=2
PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to the entire player base |
Slaptastic
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Posted - 2007.05.04 17:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Kavar To passive tank like that you have to devote every single slot to tanking, including rig slots. This means no tackling, no e-war, no dps. There is no problem, the only place where this ship is useful anymore is in pve, gate camping, and baiting. This ship cannot solo pvp, it is near useless in small-medium gang pvp, it is useless in large gang-fleet pvp. Stop whining.
What I found funny was you just pretty much summed up Amarr. No e-war, practically no DPS, near useless, cant PvP solo, and only really good for baiting.
Originally by: Slaptastic
Its amazing how many people quote themselves on the EvE Online forums.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.05.04 18:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby It was the Privateers 2nd most frequently kill ship after the Caracal
Prolly just because of that, hard nut to *****, nice ships are used the most
Gawd i remember when people were complaining about the gankageddon a long time ago...
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Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.04 18:08:00 -
[16]
I don't mind passive tanks... if you can't kill it just ignore it. It's not like a drake is going to hold you there.
The thing that ****es me off is when a passive drake pilot can just log off. Sure you can scramble the ship, but it'll disappear in a minute, and you better have a **** load of firepower to take it out in that kind of timeframe.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.05.04 18:31:00 -
[17]
I hear myrmidon can kill some battleships.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
xHalcyonx
Amarr EmpiresMod
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Posted - 2007.05.04 18:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I hear myrmidon can kill some battleships.
Replace some with 'all' and you have it correct.
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Stevobob
Freedom Guard
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Posted - 2007.05.04 18:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Slaptastic
Originally by: Dark Kavar To passive tank like that you have to devote every single slot to tanking, including rig slots. This means no tackling, no e-war, no dps. There is no problem, the only place where this ship is useful anymore is in pve, gate camping, and baiting. This ship cannot solo pvp, it is near useless in small-medium gang pvp, it is useless in large gang-fleet pvp. Stop whining.
What I found funny was you just pretty much summed up Amarr. No e-war, practically no DPS, near useless, cant PvP solo, and only really good for baiting.
Ever fight a properly set up Abaddon?
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.04 18:59:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 04/05/2007 18:56:23
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I hear myrmidon can kill some battleships.
As always it really depends on the fit and pilots. But a 'Good' myrmidon pilot will kill all 'average' battleships, yes. It's just wrong that a BC class ship can use the weapon of a higher-class ship (battleships / heavy drones) just as effective as that class itself. Give it +5% per level instead of +10%, and voila, fixed
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Yaro
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Posted - 2007.05.04 19:10:00 -
[21]
give no bonus to heavy and light drones !!! Why do the cruiser sized ships can fit heavy weapons and get heavy weapons bonuses ???!!!
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Marquis Dean
Energy.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 19:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Yaro give no bonus to heavy and light drones !!! Why do the cruiser sized ships can fit heavy weapons and get heavy weapons bonuses ???!!!
I find your post lacking in alarm. Let me help.
!!!!!??!?!???!?!?????!?!?!!!!1?!??!?!!!??!1/?!?!!??!!!!!???!!!!?!!!??2!!!! ---
Originally by: Tista i dont like you much but i'm going to agree with you on that.
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JamnOne
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Posted - 2007.05.04 19:52:00 -
[23]
My personal Opinion...leave the BC alone and fix the BS.
There problem solved. Then you will have your Frigates, your Cruisers, your Battlecruisers and Battleships. Now, if a cruiser can tank a BS then something is truly wrong and you need to fix the cruiser.
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Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Stevobob
Originally by: Slaptastic
Originally by: Dark Kavar To passive tank like that you have to devote every single slot to tanking, including rig slots. This means no tackling, no e-war, no dps. There is no problem, the only place where this ship is useful anymore is in pve, gate camping, and baiting. This ship cannot solo pvp, it is near useless in small-medium gang pvp, it is useless in large gang-fleet pvp. Stop whining.
What I found funny was you just pretty much summed up Amarr. No e-war, practically no DPS, near useless, cant PvP solo, and only really good for baiting.
Ever fight a properly set up Abaddon?
Properly setup abaddon? You mean abaddon with NOS? Abbadon does well if your on about the setup with NOS because NOS is overpowered. Give the abaddon lasers and a gank setup and it will cannot beat a super*** passive drake tanked drake before it runs out of cap. (No chance of using a balanced tank/gank setup on the abaddon either because of the no cap gun bonus so you could not even hold the drake to a stalemate by tanking its DPS)
I did like the inital remark describing the Amarr ship as useless. I agree with everything said except that I still must admitt they do good DPS with Conflag. *****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:11:00 -
[25]
Passive shield recharge should be an icing on the cake when you get down to 33%-40% shield that can tip a battle against a armor tanker if its close. Shield recharge should just be a reward for the crappy natural resistances shields have compared to armor and the fact that armour tankers get a whole shields worth of buffer before they have to start repping.
Shield recharges in a battlecriusers should not be able under any circumstances be able to tank a the high DPS battleships in eve. (mega, geddon, Hyp, Abaddon) *****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I hear myrmidon can kill some battleships.
Depending on the pilots, their skills and many other factors you can kill BBs with a cruiser.
Put equally skilled (for their ships, BBs need more skills to use effectively) and prepared pilots at each other and the BC loses. Put long range sniper BBs at point blank range and a short range BC wins. Put short ranged BB against a short range BC and the BB wins.
Its about chosing your targets. Most BB pilots that get killed by BCs shouldn't be flying a BB yet as they don't have the skills needed to use them effectively. <-----------> Keiron: Quote on PvE/PvP
[i]PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to |
Tibrius Archer
Kurai-Komichi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I hear myrmidon can kill some battleships.
Depending on the pilots, their skills and many other factors you can kill BBs with a cruiser.
Put equally skilled (for their ships, BBs need more skills to use effectively) and prepared pilots at each other and the BC loses. Put long range sniper BBs at point blank range and a short range BC wins. Put short ranged BB against a short range BC and the BB wins.
Its about chosing your targets. Most BB pilots that get killed by BCs shouldn't be flying a BB yet as they don't have the skills needed to use them effectively.
Ok, wanna keep this thread about the farce of passive tanking. but I have to comment.
yes, I see your point BB's require more skill to fly I accept that. Before your statement would be very true but now, not really the new BC's in eve change that. Myrm fits like a dream none of the CPU problems you get on some gallante ships. It can reliably kill a few Battleships in OPEN FIELD. I don't mean just catching a sniping battleship before it warps out but in OPEN FIELD. If I had the choice between fighting a close range battle in either a Auto cannon/criuse missile phoon or a Ogre2 half NOS half gun EW myrm with dual reps. I will pick the myrm. I will out rep the phoon and have enough dmage to break the phoons tank in time and the 3 medium nos will keep my cap alive in concert with my injectors. Easy kill. *****************************************
"Get in my way and I will burn your fleet from stem to stern" |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:10:00 -
[28]
Back on topic
I don't think passive tanking is over powered or needs to be nerfed since you use it all you can do is tank. You can't even mount a WCS to get out or an ECCM module without severely effecting your tank.
There might be some INDIVIDUAL SHIPS might need tweeking, but I'm not convinced..... <-----------> Keiron: Quote on PvE/PvP
[i]PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to |
Liang Nuren
Red 42 CORE.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Back on topic
I don't think passive tanking is over powered or needs to be nerfed since you use it all you can do is tank. You can't even mount a WCS to get out or an ECCM module without severely effecting your tank.
There might be some INDIVIDUAL SHIPS might need tweeking, but I'm not convinced.....
/// I don't think that NOS is overpowered or needs to be nerfed since all you can do is keep your cap up. You can't even mount a gun or smartbomb without severely affecting your capacitor.
There might be some INDIVIDUAL SHIPS that might need tweeking, but I'm not convinced.....
/// Fixed it for you. If Nos needs a looking at, so does passive tanking - seriously...
Liang My opinions are my own, and do not in any way reflect the beliefs of my corp/alliance. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:30:00 -
[30]
*shrugs*
I'm not screaming for a nerf of anything, I just pointed out the flaw in the example he gave. Put NOS in both ships and the BC loses. Take NOS out of both ships and the BC loses. Plus he completely ignored the larger ship's own capacity to field the same weapons that the smaller ship did, mainly the T2 heavy drones, while maintaining its own superior firepower. To me in that situation screams that the issue is the setup of the ships, not the passive tanking. Your opinion may differ, of course and is what is so interesting about forums
The only "evidence" I can give as to whether NOS needs nerfing is that it is now considered "must have" module for PvP both as an offensive weapon (yes, it IS a gun as it destroys your enemy's ability to defend themselves) and a defensive weapon (to counter their NOS to be able to defend yourself). Passive tanking is hardly a must have and generally considered a poor choice in PvP, but it is a valid defense to NOS.... <-----------> Keiron: Quote on PvE/PvP
[i]PvE and/or PvP is not something that appeals to |
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