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Veldspar And Scordite
All Your Belt's Belong To Us
0
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Posted - 2017.03.27 12:02:56 -
[1] - Quote
From the many csm candidates I have watched on youtube and the interview with them in pod casts I have heard I have often wondered what the CSM actually do in this game and I have ran into a couple points consistently and with out fail. These points are that they are a communication link between CCP and the player base. Also that they communicate issues and suggest workarounds/solutions to problems in game.
This on the surface sounds quite genuine and quite good for a game with thousands of players and personalities and to the best of what I have seen in other MMOs is a first. This to me is something of a conflict to me as I personally have also heard on the exact same interviews and seen in the exact same videos that important workarounds and nurfs was not talked about in detail or actually brought up on these summits.
The Rorqual befor it was brought into the game as a miner was sugested to have insane mining potential and we got a discussion forum to talk about it and sugest changes to the origional stats. This forum I am assuming had been ignored as the issues that were brought up by the vast ammount of players were realized and shown to be true. I would also put the assumption that the CSM were also talking about these problems with ccp in person but to no actual result as they were pushed out exactly the same as what a dev posted months in advance.
The plex split was something that apparantly wasnt even told in any form of detail to the csm befor it was pushed out and neither were the nurfs to fighter ratting or anything of the sort which is important.
Every big feature ccp have pushed out hasnt been talked about with the CSM in detail so I am confused in what their actual point in existance realy is.
If the CSM have actualy done anything I would like them to show it with links and have a dev back them up but I am sure they will just say that its all under NDA and they are very buisy working along side devs to better the game. I would legit like to understand the use of the CSM befor I consider voting next year.
Curently all i see are players becoming candidates on a eve version of X-Factor all trying to grab a free holiday to Iceland.
Wonder how many people will give a structured answer to my question or just call me a troll/noob/****** simply for asking a simple question. Is the CSM a publicity stunt and why should I vote for them?
I waited until AFTER voting was finnished befor posting this as to not impact the curent elections hype |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1731
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 12:36:38 -
[2] - Quote
What people - even many CSM candidates - fail to understand is, that the CSM can't "do" anything. Some CSM candidates build their platform on some aspects of the game that they think need to be changed in one way or another, and people vote for them expecting them to actually make a change happen, provided they get elected. That is however not how any of this works. The CSM does not develop this game, and the CSM cannot tell CCP how to develop Eve.
The only thing the CSM *can* do is talk to Devs and give Feedback on existing or planned features, and that's pretty much about it. CCP are in no way obligated to listen to anything the CSM says. People also complain that there is no way to check what each of the CSM members actually does, but in fact there is: It's called the CSM Minutes, and it will tell you what has been discussed, and what the stance of the CSM members was on a certain topic.
So, the CSM is what the name says: A "Council" - they can counsel CCP on things, but they cannot make any decisions. So I always find it a bit odd when people ask what a particular CSM member has "done", or when they claim that CSM member soandso has "done" this or "done" that. They can'd "do" anything but give feedback.
I still think the CSM is a good thing - it's a filter. Just look at this community, at the eve-o forums or r/eve - it's a cesspool of whiny, entitled and very easily offended online gamers. It's quite difficult to get any meaningful feedback out of that, which is why focus groups are used. At least with those you can typically have a conversation in a more or less civilized manner. And where usually the company would pick out the focus group, here in Eve the players are allowed to pick their own representatives, which is also not a bad thing.
All in all, the CSM is not a bad thing, but people should lower their expectations a bit. It's not supposed to be the powerful decision making entity people often expect it to be. |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2619
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 12:45:01 -
[3] - Quote
The CSM is a scam. Any organized groups such as alliances / coalitions will easily outvote unorganized groups like the rest of the player base as long as voting is not mandatory. Its basic political science. When your alliance leaders direct you to vote for its candidate most will vote for that candidate. When you consider alt accounts a coalition might easily have more votes for that candidate than actual subscribers in EvE (CFC @ 40k votes x alt accounts).
Pays to do a little research on the so called independent CSM as well, some are in alliances corps that are affiliated with the but bigger alliances coalitions.
At most they represent parts of the player base in a very biased way.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3255
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 12:49:34 -
[4] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:
All in all, the CSM is not a bad thing, but people should lower their expectations a bit. It's not supposed to be the powerful decision making entity people often expect it to be.
A lot of people really need to think about this. |
Salvos Rhoska
2573
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 12:56:47 -
[5] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Neuntausend wrote:
All in all, the CSM is not a bad thing, but people should lower their expectations a bit. It's not supposed to be the powerful decision making entity people often expect it to be.
A lot of people really need to think about this. I think most people know that.
At this point they are more concerned about undue influence and insider info.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
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CODE Special Agent
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
2337
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 12:59:12 -
[6] - Quote
The CSM may not be representing all EVE players but only the bigger organized blocks, but that is still better than no focus group. Direct feedback from all players would be more democratic but less useful to CCP. Do focus groups like the CSM neglect the opinions and needs smaller player groups? Certainly, but some kind of filter is needed to keep things on a manageable level. GÇ£Everybody tell us what you think and want pleaseGÇ¥ would only be a placebo because there was no time/way to read/listen to such much input anyway. Liquid feedback sounds better in theory than it works out in reality. |
Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15417
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 13:04:11 -
[7] - Quote
I never understand the criticism of the CSM and 'organized' groups. If you don't like organized groups of people voting against what you think are your interests, why aren't you organizing your own group?
(Rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer, which is that "impotent rage is easier than positive action") |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2619
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 13:09:07 -
[8] - Quote
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:The CSM may not be representing all EVE players but only the bigger organized blocks, but that is still better than no focus group. Direct feedback from all players would be more democratic but less useful to CCP. Do focus groups like the CSM neglect the opinions and needs smaller player groups? Certainly, but some kind of filter is needed to keep things on a manageable level. GÇ£Everybody tell us what you think and want pleaseGÇ¥ would only be a placebo because there was no time/way to read/listen to such much input anyway. Liquid feedback sounds better in theory than it works out in reality. It was the bias of the larger blocs which resulted in years of blue donut.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2619
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 13:14:56 -
[9] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I never understand the criticism of the CSM and 'organized' groups. If you don't like organized groups of people voting against what you think are your interests, why aren't you organizing your own group?
(Rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer, which is that "impotent rage is easier than positive action") So your answer to the issue of blocs outvoting non-blocs is to create more blocs? That's as smart as saying people who don't like criminal gangs should start their own criminal gang.
Better solution is to eliminate the manipulation from the vote.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3255
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 13:20:51 -
[10] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I never understand the criticism of the CSM and 'organized' groups. If you don't like organized groups of people voting against what you think are your interests, why aren't you organizing your own group?
(Rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer, which is that "impotent rage is easier than positive action") So your answer to the issue of blocs outvoting non-blocs is to create more blocs? That's as smart as saying people who don't like criminal gangs should start their own criminal gang. Better solution is to eliminate the manipulation from the vote.
You want to prevent people from voting for who they think is the bests candidates? |
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Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15418
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 13:23:28 -
[11] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I never understand the criticism of the CSM and 'organized' groups. If you don't like organized groups of people voting against what you think are your interests, why aren't you organizing your own group?
(Rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer, which is that "impotent rage is easier than positive action") So your answer to the issue of blocs outvoting non-blocs is to create more blocs? That's as smart as saying people who don't like criminal gangs should start their own criminal gang. Better solution is to eliminate the manipulation from the vote.
Which is why I use the term "impotent". You're literally saying "stop people from doing people things". That's stupid and undoable, if you believe what you are saying, why not find others who believe the same? No one says you have to fly with them.
I know, another rhetorical question, because damn near no one agrees with you so why would they ever vote like you lol. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3256
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 13:26:19 -
[12] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I never understand the criticism of the CSM and 'organized' groups. If you don't like organized groups of people voting against what you think are your interests, why aren't you organizing your own group?
(Rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer, which is that "impotent rage is easier than positive action") So your answer to the issue of blocs outvoting non-blocs is to create more blocs? That's as smart as saying people who don't like criminal gangs should start their own criminal gang. Better solution is to eliminate the manipulation from the vote. Which is why I use the term "impotent". You're literally saying "stop people from doing people things". That's stupid and undoable, if you believe what you are saying, why not find others who believe the same? No one says you have to fly with them. I know, another rhetorical question, because damn near no one agrees with you so why would they ever vote like you lol.
The chances of Ziona ever going from whining to action are the same as the chances as Ziona going from rage quit posting to biomassing.
We both know what those odds are. |
Cade Windstalker
1165
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 15:13:54 -
[13] - Quote
Veldspar And Scordite wrote:The Rorqual befor it was brought into the game as a miner was sugested to have insane mining potential and we got a discussion forum to talk about it and sugest changes to the origional stats. This forum I am assuming had been ignored as the issues that were brought up by the vast ammount of players were realized and shown to be true. I would also put the assumption that the CSM were also talking about these problems with ccp in person but to no actual result as they were pushed out exactly the same as what a dev posted months in advance.
You may want to go actually read the thread in question before declaring that CCP don't listen to the playerbase or declaring the players prophets. Like 90% of the feedback in that thread is "OMG, why would I ever bring something this expensive on-grid!?!?!" and that was when the price of those drones was estimated to be less than 250m a piece. End result, CCP high-balled the yield, a lot, and we got a flood of Rorquals.
Veldspar And Scordite wrote:The plex split was something that apparantly wasnt even told in any form of detail to the csm befor it was pushed out and neither were the nurfs to fighter ratting or anything of the sort which is important.
I've heard nothing suggesting the CSM didn't hear about or give feedback on either of these, and this comment by Bobmon suggests the CSM absolutely knew about the Fighter changes before hand.
Just because you personally don't like something doesn't make it a bad decision on CCP's part. Just because the CSM isn't publicly clamoring for dev skulls in response to a change doesn't mean they didn't give feedback on it.
Feedback does not just mean "do you like this or not", quite often it means "can anyone offer any substantive objections to this or reasons why we shouldn't make this change for X reasons?" That's what the CSM exists for, to get to see some or all of CCP's reasoning or advanced plans so they can test the waters and get feedback ahead of changes being made.
If you're expecting the CSM to just go "players won't like that!" you're going to be disappointed. Someone has disliked every single change CCP has ever done, that people won't like something getting nerfed (or buffed for that matter) is not surprising to CCP.
It kinda seems like you have bigger expectations of the CSM than is realistic. Go talk to some of the CSMs, message them in-game or on Reddit. Most are pretty happy to talk about what the CSM does and how they feel it contributes, you'll get a better answer that way than you will from a bunch of Very Important Opinions on here. |
Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15418
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 15:20:06 -
[14] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Just because you personally don't like something doesn't make it a bad decision on CCP's part. Just because the CSM isn't publicly clamoring for dev skulls in response to a change doesn't mean they didn't give feedback on it.
Feedback does not just mean "do you like this or not", quite often it means "can anyone offer any substantive objections to this or reasons why we shouldn't make this change for X reasons?" That's what the CSM exists for, to get to see some or all of CCP's reasoning or advanced plans so they can test the waters and get feedback ahead of changes being made.
If you're expecting the CSM to just go "players won't like that!" you're going to be disappointed. Someone has disliked every single change CCP has ever done, that people won't like something getting nerfed (or buffed for that matter) is not surprising to CCP.
It kinda seems like you have bigger expectations of the CSM than is realistic. Go talk to some of the CSMs, message them in-game or on Reddit. Most are pretty happy to talk about what the CSM does and how they feel it contributes, you'll get a better answer that way than you will from a bunch of Very Important Opinions on here.
Well said. People are so sure they are right, that when CCp doesn't instantly surrender to their wants, it turns in to "CCP isn't listening to feedback!!!".
I say this as someone who has from time to time given warnings to CCP about consequences they may not be considering Sometimes I've been right and the bad consequences happened. I don't think that means CCP doesn't listen, it means that CCP are different people form me, with different thought processes and beliefs and knowledge (the last part is important, I never let myself forget that CCP has more information about everything than I do).
It doesn't help that in those feedback thread a sizeable chunk of asocial nerds will be screaming at the developers and talking about how they should lose their jobs because they took a low slot off an imaginary spaceship or something lol. If I were an EVE DEV I wouldn't post much here either |
Alexander Bor
Polaris Global
13
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 15:20:55 -
[15] - Quote
Agree with topic starter. Current CSM need to be deeply restructured. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
2635
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 16:24:41 -
[16] - Quote
The fact of the matter was the CSM was formed to be a player based oversight organization. It was a reaction to the BPO scandal back in the BOB days and later the POS exploit. The POS exploit was the first time I got to learn about on my first CSM term. It was good PR for CCP and early on it also was briefed on things like the Eve economy back when they had a full time economist.
What it is today I can say for sure. What I saw in the later days of my experience as a CSM is that it is populated by folks that think they can somehow become game designers by being part of the CSM or others that think their ginormous alliance should have some CSM presence because. I don't think the CSM serves its initial intended purpose anymore. But the CSM is now part of the rich meta of Eve so I think it should continue as it does seem to create the occasional drama and what would Eve be without all manner of drama! |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2622
|
Posted - 2017.03.27 16:26:01 -
[17] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I never understand the criticism of the CSM and 'organized' groups. If you don't like organized groups of people voting against what you think are your interests, why aren't you organizing your own group?
(Rhetorical question, everyone knows the answer, which is that "impotent rage is easier than positive action") So your answer to the issue of blocs outvoting non-blocs is to create more blocs? That's as smart as saying people who don't like criminal gangs should start their own criminal gang. Better solution is to eliminate the manipulation from the vote. Which is why I use the term "impotent". You're literally saying "stop people from doing people things". That's stupid and undoable, if you believe what you are saying, why not find others who believe the same? No one says you have to fly with them. I know, another rhetorical question, because damn near no one agrees with you so why would they ever vote like you lol. Nope I'm saying the voting process needs a rethink. But nice strawman
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
|
Veldspar And Scordite
All Your Belt's Belong To Us
2
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Posted - 2017.03.31 10:18:04 -
[18] - Quote
my conclusion is that the csm is their to do things but isnt realy doing them so its a publicity stunt. Right ima run next year i fancy a trip to iceland and dont fancy paying for it!!! |
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 10:25:12 -
[19] - Quote
Neither. Not a scam... Not useful. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
735
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 10:52:11 -
[20] - Quote
Alexander Bor wrote:Agree with topic starter. Current CSM need to be deeply restructured. Into what exactly? CSM is a group of players that is able to see new feature before playerbase and provide feedback. And that's all. It's better to talk with 10 people that 10 000. Now is feedback from 10 people usefull? I don't think so. Focus groups are better but they are taking time.
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
60705
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 11:35:37 -
[21] - Quote
In my opinion the CSM is suppose to be a sounding board that not only provides feedback to CCP about their current and or future projects but also provides feedback to CCP about player ideas and issues pertaining to the game.
The problem I see is that CSM members are only doing the first part and are basically ignoring the second part.
There's a couple of sub-forums where the CSM should be very active but they, as well as CCP, rarely ever visit them. I'm talking about the sub-forums 'Assembly Hall' and 'Player Features And Ideas Discussion'. Maybe they're just stealth browsing the threads in those sub-forums so they don't give the impression of showing favoritism towards specific threads.
Now that sounds reasonable and I can understand why they would do that but personally I'd much prefer it if they actually participated in the thread discussion. They don't have to agree or disagree with the thread topic, just show some interest by asking a few questions. I think that would definitely let the player base know the CSM is at least doing something other than getting free trips to Iceland.
As for this thread and it's question - CSM: A Publicity Stunt Or Actually Useful? Currently it seems to me the correct answer is both.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
735
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 11:55:43 -
[22] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:There's a couple of sub-forums where the CSM should be very active but they, as well as CCP, rarely ever visit them. I'm talking about the sub-forums 'Assembly Hall' and 'Player Features And Ideas Discussion'. Maybe they're just stealth browsing the threads in those sub-forums so they don't give the impression of showing favoritism towards specific threads. Let's not make CSM a second (or third) job. They need time to play the game
What would be good if the seats in CSM where specified in terms of game knowledge and experience. Like PvP, fleets, industry, exploration etc. Then for example Industry CSM would have the ability to create his own focus group about industry. So act as "head" of players experienced with industry and bring more value feedback to CCP.
Last summit CCP shown CSM new probing features and feedback was a disaster because there were no acutall explorer...
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
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Cade Windstalker
1197
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 13:44:45 -
[23] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:In my opinion the CSM is suppose to be a sounding board that not only provides feedback to CCP about their current and or future projects but also provides feedback to CCP about player ideas and issues pertaining to the game.
The problem I see is that CSM members are only doing the first part and are basically ignoring the second part.
There's a couple of sub-forums where the CSM should be very active but they, as well as CCP, rarely ever visit them. I'm talking about the sub-forums 'Assembly Hall' and 'Player Features And Ideas Discussion'. Maybe they're just stealth browsing the threads in those sub-forums so they don't give the impression of showing favoritism towards specific threads.
Now that sounds reasonable and I can understand why they would do that but personally I'd much prefer it if they actually participated in the thread discussion. They don't have to agree or disagree with the thread topic, just show some interest by asking a few questions. I think that would definitely let the player base know the CSM is at least doing something other than getting free trips to Iceland.
As for this thread and it's question - CSM: A Publicity Stunt Or Actually Useful? Currently it seems to me the correct answer is both.
DMC
CCP won't comment on player ideas unless they seem real potential on them and want to encourage discussion. The CSM won't comment on them because PFAID is a cesspit and 99% of what's posted there is a terrible idea that doesn't need any encouragement.
None of that means people at CCP, or the CSM for that matter, aren't browsing them.
I'd also point out that it's not the player's or the CSM's job to try to be game designers, which is a lot of what those threads are trying to do. It's not "this is a problem, CCP can you please look at a solution" it's "Here is my one line/three page idea, please implement this ASAP thx".
If you want to see the CSM being active look for either:
- The few threads with well written legitimate complaints along the lines of "hey X thing is clearly broken" or "this is bad gameplay and here's why"
- The meeting minutes and the things the CSM brings up that have been brought to them by players.
IMO if you want CCP and the CSM more active on the forums make them less of a Piranha tank environment, but that would probably involve filtering them and locking them down pretty hard, and I don't think anyone actually wants that. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
60707
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 14:36:45 -
[24] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:In my opinion the CSM is suppose to be a sounding board that not only provides feedback to CCP about their current and or future projects but also provides feedback to CCP about player ideas and issues pertaining to the game.
The problem I see is that CSM members are only doing the first part and are basically ignoring the second part.
There's a couple of sub-forums where the CSM should be very active but they, as well as CCP, rarely ever visit them. I'm talking about the sub-forums 'Assembly Hall' and 'Player Features And Ideas Discussion'. Maybe they're just stealth browsing the threads in those sub-forums so they don't give the impression of showing favoritism towards specific threads.
Now that sounds reasonable and I can understand why they would do that but personally I'd much prefer it if they actually participated in the thread discussion. They don't have to agree or disagree with the thread topic, just show some interest by asking a few questions. I think that would definitely let the player base know the CSM is at least doing something other than getting free trips to Iceland.
As for this thread and it's question - CSM: A Publicity Stunt Or Actually Useful? Currently it seems to me the correct answer is both.
DMC
CCP won't comment on player ideas unless they seem real potential on them and want to encourage discussion. The CSM won't comment on them because PFAID is a cesspit and 99% of what's posted there is a terrible idea that doesn't need any encouragement. None of that means people at CCP, or the CSM for that matter, aren't browsing them. I'd also point out that it's not the player's or the CSM's job to try to be game designers, which is a lot of what those threads are trying to do. It's not "this is a problem, CCP can you please look at a solution" it's "Here is my one line/three page idea, please implement this ASAP thx". If you want to see the CSM being active look for either:
- The few threads with well written legitimate complaints along the lines of "hey X thing is clearly broken" or "this is bad gameplay and here's why"
- The meeting minutes and the things the CSM brings up that have been brought to them by players.
IMO if you want CCP and the CSM more active on the forums make them less of a Piranha tank environment, but that would probably involve filtering them and locking them down pretty hard, and I don't think anyone actually wants that. Your character is almost as old as mine so you should know that years ago CCP use to be very active in all of these sub-forums before Reddit became the big rage. I never said anything about encouraging those threads, I said they should ask questions to show they are actually looking.
I never said anything about being a game designer. However getting new ideas from a different perspective definitely helps. In fact I've seen CCP flat out ask the playerbase for ideas pertaining to different types of content such as Mini Hacking Game, Planetary Interaction, Avatar's (which obviously failed to even become content), the list goes on. I know for a fact the basic stats and idea for the Bowhead was posted by a player here in the forums.
There's also been threads posted that brought CCP's attention to various problems and issues within the game such as Loot Spew. Hell, I even have a proposal thread linked in my forum signature that has garnered some CSM participation.
Yeah I'd like to see CCP and CSM be more active on these forums but unfortunately the big fad right now is to post on Reddit. Now about these forums being a Piranha tank environment, that's CCP's fault for first encouraging that type of behavior and secondly, letting it get out of control.
Anyway, this thread is about CSM and in my opinion it wouldn't hurt their image to be a little more active in the forums.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Cade Windstalker
1199
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Posted - 2017.03.31 16:09:51 -
[25] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Your character is almost as old as mine so you should know that years ago CCP use to be very active in all of these sub-forums before Reddit became the big rage. I never said anything about encouraging those threads, I said they should ask questions to show they are actually looking.
I never said anything about being a game designer. However getting new ideas from a different perspective definitely helps. In fact I've seen CCP flat out ask the playerbase for ideas pertaining to different types of content such as Mini Hacking Game, Planetary Interaction, Avatar's (which obviously failed to even become content), the list goes on. I know for a fact the basic stats and idea for the Bowhead was posted by a player here in the forums.
There's also been threads posted that brought CCP's attention to various problems and issues within the game such as Loot Spew. Hell, I even have a proposal thread linked in my forum signature that has garnered some CSM participation.
Yeah I'd like to see CCP and CSM be more active on these forums but unfortunately the big fad right now is to post on Reddit. Now about these forums being a Piranha tank environment, that's CCP's fault for first encouraging that type of behavior and secondly, letting it get out of control.
Anyway, this thread is about CSM and in my opinion it wouldn't hurt their image to be a little more active in the forums.
DMC
I know they've been more active in the past, but that was more down to individual devs not some general policy by CCP, and quite a bit of it was done on the dev's own time, not as part of their normal work schedule. General CCP engagement on the forums has also fluctuated up and down over the years with how busy they are, devs joining or leaving, and other things. A lot of the very forum-active devs have either left or been promoted into positions with more work to do, which means less time on the forums.
As to 'encouraging' threads, asking a question is encouragement. "Oh, CCP's looking, lets badger them with questions/comments/ect"... Plus have you read half the stuff on PFAID and Assembly Hall? Some of it's good, most of the good stuff doesn't require questions or feedback, but most of it's kinda crap. Either ideas that are actively bad or requests for massive feature reworks to suit someone's vision of the game, not an addition to the game as it is now. What does participating in the few good threads get? Probably a flood of people either coming in to yell about how bad the idea is or ask why this got attention but their idea didn't. Yeah that's a bit of a cynical view but if you look in the few blue tagged posts around there that a good chunk of what you get, same for a vocal minority in the Upcoming Changes threads. "Why are you changing this, clearly X is more important than this!"
As for the CSM, that's entirely down to their individual discretion. If you want CSMs who will be more active on the forums then vote the ones who are back in and vote in CSMs with a history of forum participation and who say they will be active here. Steve's constant participation both on Reddit and here on the forums is a big reason he got the top spot on my ballot.
The forums are what the players, collectively, have made them. There's no way for CCP to stop all the trolling and BS and bad debate without basically clamping down hard on it. The only thing that Reddit has over the forums right now is a slightly better reputation, more traffic, and slightly different content.
There's also no expectation that someone from CCP is going to read everything that gets put on Reddit. Possible, sure, but with the forums there's something of an implicit guarantee that if you post in FAID someone at CCP at least skims your thread and rolls their eyes at it.
Also, arguably, less chance of anything CCP says there being taken as gospel, though that's debatable. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
60709
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Posted - 2017.03.31 18:29:05 -
[26] - Quote
Yeah, you're right. That's a very cynical viewpoint you have. In fact that's the only thing I agree with.
Everything else you stated sounds like a whitewashed halfass excuse, definitely the complete polar opposite of what I posted. But hey, that's cool. Everyone has their own opinion and interpretation of what they perceive.
As my old pappy use to say : 'If you think there's no problem, then you're part of the problem.'
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
645
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Posted - 2017.03.31 19:02:54 -
[27] - Quote
deleted ... learn to read Nic. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6286
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Posted - 2017.03.31 19:30:54 -
[28] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The CSM is a scam. Any organized groups such as alliances / coalitions will easily outvote unorganized groups like the rest of the player base as long as voting is not mandatory. Its basic political science.
Working as it should in other words.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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xXdongbenderXx
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.03.31 19:36:54 -
[29] - Quote
I thought I bent dongs |
Jenn aSide
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
15463
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Posted - 2017.03.31 19:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:The CSM is a scam. Any organized groups such as alliances / coalitions will easily outvote unorganized groups like the rest of the player base as long as voting is not mandatory. Its basic political science. Working as it should in other words.
W[:twisted wouldn't it be fun to see the mental gymnastics people like this would go through if there was compulsory voting and the exact same results occurred
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