Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
roberts dragon
Beak Enterprises TRUE VINE
72
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 08:18:50 -
[1] - Quote
we in a war against 1 corp 4 members to his corp, we have allaince with many players , i will state the problem and hopefully offer 1 idea to help ,
1 corp 4 member war decs a alliance just to farm easy kills , example when we see him he runs back to udema and just waits outsdie station in a t3 cruiser . he normally attacks we dock up come outside and attack him but havent enough firepower to kill him under the timer .
so i think with this tactics was told by pros unless we have massive fleet cant kill him with the timer so we went away , so we can only get him when he is away from station . he has good tactics been learning from him . just frustrating we just wait to see him in open to fleet up and get him.
the idea is war decs should be against same size corps size up to 6 players 12 ,24 ,36 , etc . also the timer outside a station might need looking at .
not sure but think same size corps/alliances can war dec if about same size , hopefully would make this war dec thing a positive outcome instead of , players just farming easy kills it can be worse for new players
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3286
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 08:54:04 -
[2] - Quote
If your 210-man corp is incapable of exploding a single T3 cruiser, what makes you think you could explode 204 T3 cruisers on a station?
While I agree that station games that allow aggression without commitment to a fight are lame, I don't what that has to do with the war mechanic at all.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
272
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 09:00:29 -
[3] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:If your 210-man corp is incapable of exploding a single T3 cruiser, what makes you think you could explode 204 T3 cruisers on a station?
This. OP, the problem is not that the war mechanics are broken, it's that you suck at EVE. Stop playing station games with him and letting him dictate the terms of engagement. |
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
456
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 09:21:58 -
[4] - Quote
OP, if a 4 man corp wardecs your 210 man corp, and is winning, that's just a sign that you either lack proper tactics, organization and skills.
The war system IS broken, but not for reasons you listed. If you complain about him running when faced with a much bigger fleet, then my question is, you wouldn't? Everyone that isn't looking for lulz or a whelp retreats in the face of a superior force, unless they have a strategic objective to achieve.
I wardec corporations in much the same way he does. I play almost always completely solo, taking on much larger groups of players. Who, if they'd organize themselves properly, would be able to easily take me down. The reason why they don't is because I play to my strengths. I don't fight on their terms, I strike where they're the weakest and I do NOT fight fair. Guerrilla warfare at its best. If an opponent has superior numbers, you either wait for those numbers to decrease, or you influence the situation in such a manner that his numbers lower down to a manageable level. |
roberts dragon
Beak Enterprises TRUE VINE
72
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 10:04:24 -
[5] - Quote
yes havent much skill/expereince with pvp but have learned quite a bit , the fleet was for new players or players without any pvp expereince so was to show us what to do , get used to flying in fleets etc ,was a good learning curve , but as the pro player commander did say its pointleess to carry on we just get him when he is out in the open .
was making a reference to why i suggested the idea that was the problem i had expereinced , pro players going after easy kills from new players/alphas mainly miners , most corps with 100 players 75% are inactive and so many newer players .
to me makes sence to war dec corps about same size , but like this 4 man corp war dec a alliance .
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3287
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 10:31:57 -
[6] - Quote
roberts dragon wrote:yes havent much skill/expereince with pvp but have learned quite a bit , the fleet was for new players or players without any pvp expereince so was to show us what to do , get used to flying in fleets etc ,was a good learning curve , but as the pro player commander did say its pointleess to carry on we just get him when he is out in the open .
was making a reference to why i suggested the idea that was the problem i had expereinced , pro players going after easy kills from new players/alphas mainly miners , most corps with 100 players 75% are inactive and so many newer players .
to me makes sence to war dec corps about same size , but like this 4 man corp war dec a alliance .
Why should you be immune to attack by groups smaller than you? I don't see how group size is linked to whether your opponent is a "pro player" or not. A group of 5 new alpha players could wardec you too if they were brave enough and wanted to. Shouldn't they be allowed to challenge you? And a group of 200 hundred experienced veterans could challenge you under your proposal, and you would have zero chance against them if you can't handle a single "pro player".
There are no such thing as "easy kills" in this game. Don't let that carebear ideology poison your thinking. There are just kills. Everyone is at risk to everyone else. There will always be players and groups who fight smart and with purpose, picking only the engagements most heavily in their favour. Your strategy against them is to bait them into a fight where they cannot escape, or to bring something they do not expect and are unable to handle. Also, don't fall into the classic trap of thinking killmails mean much at all. Don't be afraid of giving them up if the odds are in your favour and don't take them as the sole indicator if you won a fight. If your opponent takes to cowering in a station you have held the field and won the battle.
Eve Online is more of a war simulator than a fleet fight simulator. Rarely, if ever, do two equal sides line up on each side of a grid and have an honourable battle to the death. The real game is shaping and choosing the sites, times, and sides of a battle so that the outcome is in your favour and furthers your greater interests in amassing power in New Eden.
So -1 to your proposal. Guerrilla wars and wars of harassment against a stronger opponent are one of the main uses of a war in a game where you can choose not to undock. The only other major one would be for shooting structures in highsec, and your citadels and engineering complexes should definitely not be immune to attack by any group smaller than yourself.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20780
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 11:32:47 -
[7] - Quote
the problem is (we are talking about holysheet1 here right?) is hes a station-hugging-undock-queen.
rather than trying to overhaul wars for this specific derpy mofo, how about we get a targeted script for the mjd field generator (think HIC) so we may drad this smacktalking gobshite out of his safe space by the scruff of his neck and whelp him like he deservs.
with the added bonus of use for kidnapping angry Russians from the amarr undock...
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
|
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
450
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 12:25:09 -
[8] - Quote
Figure out what he likes to go after, then rig one up with tackle and tank out the wazoo while the rest of your fleet waits cloaked or elsewhere. Once he shows his ugly face, scram him and web him and warp in/decloak. -1 T3.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
|
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1203
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 13:23:57 -
[9] - Quote
I read a lot of the if you cannot kill a single T3 then you suck at EvE posts and I wonder why. As a scout that cannot do much to aide in these situations (nor am I expected to) I have watched endless hours of players trying to kill someone like this jerk that is playing station games. Watched as alpha strikes are thwarted by the insta dock versus longer lock times (relatively speaking) of the ships with the alpha strike ability. Watched a target re-dock the moment the first person bumps them so you never have time to actually bump them off the docking collar, and the list goes on and on. Getting a station hugging jerk like this off the collar so you can kill them is more about luck and patience to wait for them to make a mistake than it is about player skill. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
1203
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 13:47:54 -
[10] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:There are no such thing as "easy kills" in this game. Don't let that carebear ideology poison your thinking. There are just kills. A group of 2 or 3 veteran players / characters warps into a belt in high sec. tackle and kill a first week newbie mining in his venture. A solo player in a frigate or a destroyer locates and kills an Ishtar full of drones they caught while ratting in nul sec. Do you really expect me to believe that both of these situations require the same amount of player skill and effort to accomplish?
While I understand the basic idea you are trying to convey here the simple reality is that there are easy kills in this game and the newbie in his venture is just one of them. |
|
Toxic Yaken
The Dickwad Squad Legio De Mortem
170
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 14:43:49 -
[11] - Quote
roberts dragon wrote:we in a war against 1 corp 4 members to his corp, we have allaince with many players , i will state the problem and hopefully offer 1 idea to help ,
1 corp 4 member war decs a alliance just to farm easy kills , example when we see him he runs back to udema and just waits outsdie station in a t3 cruiser . he normally attacks we dock up come outside and attack him but havent enough firepower to kill him under the timer .
so i think with this tactics was told by pros unless we have massive fleet cant kill him with the timer so we went away , so we can only get him when he is away from station . he has good tactics been learning from him . just frustrating we just wait to see him in open to fleet up and get him.
the idea is war decs should be against same size corps size up to 6 players 12 ,24 ,36 , etc . also the timer outside a station might need looking at .
not sure but think same size corps/alliances can war dec if about same size , hopefully would make this war dec thing a positive outcome instead of , players just farming easy kills it can be worse for new players
Wardec shielding to be completely immune to wardecs used to be a thing until CCP reworked it, and in an era of Alpha clones I'm afraid this kind of change would just lead to Wardec shielding 2.0.
Vote Toxic Yaken for CSM XII!
Curator of the Wardec Project - Join our Discord to join the discussions about Wardecs
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3290
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 15:18:10 -
[12] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Black Pedro wrote:There are no such thing as "easy kills" in this game. Don't let that carebear ideology poison your thinking. There are just kills. A group of 2 or 3 veteran players / characters warps into a belt in high sec. tackle and kill a first week newbie mining in his venture. A solo player in a frigate or a destroyer locates and kills an Ishtar full of drones they caught while ratting in nul sec. Do you really expect me to believe that both of these situations require the same amount of player skill and effort to accomplish? While I understand the basic idea you are trying to convey here the simple reality is that there are easy kills in this game and the newbie in his venture is just one of them. Of course some kills require more effort, coordination, patience, skill or luck. Not all kills are created equal. That is not the point. The point is that dismissing certain kills as "easy" as some sort of pejorative is not productive or useful. It attempts to offload the blame onto the attacker for what is ultimately your responsibility:
8 Golden Rules For Eve Online
Worse, the "easy kill" meme ignores the core idea of the game which is players shooting each other and losing ships to each other. Yes, I know many vocal players like to come to the forums and loudly proclaim that is not why they play the game or what they like to do, but the game was designed on this fundamental idea that we are all each other's content. If you enter the carebear echo chamber that people are "bad" for indulging in "easy" kills, you are always going to feel the victim and never completely at ease in this game.
Everyone can play Eve how they want, but one should not fall into the trap of blaming a loss on the motives of another player. You are completely in control of what you undock into the unsafe environment that is New Eden, and you cannot know what motivates the other player, or how much effort he or she has put into catching you with your pants down, nor does it ultimately matter. Besides, it's much more satisfying to chase a wardeccer into a station (like the OP and his friends did to their credit) and look down on him as a coward, rather than to think of yourself as a victim of someone trying to farm "easy kills" and hide in a station yourself when you are playing a game where we are purposely put at risk to each other so that we can capitalize on mistakes we all make from time-to-time. Just get out there and do your thing to make your ISK (while taking precautions) and laugh at the failure of your opponent to stop you and quit worrying about what motivates him or how "easy" he likes his kills to be.
Honestly, some of my most profitable kills have been the "easiest" and some of my "hardest" - those that required the most stalking, patience and coordination with other players have lost me ISK. But if I am just looking for ISK, I want my kills to be as "easy" as possible. Why I am shooting you doesn't matter to you as a potential target. You just need to defend yourself from me like you do from everyone else (and exactly like I have to do when I am gathering and building things).
Calling other players on their mistakes (or going out looking for them or even to provoke players into making one) may not always be the honourable and noble space samurai thing to do, but it is an intended and sometimes lucrative way to get ahead in this game. Also, many players find it fun.
That all said, while I think trying to balance wars based on player numbers is silly, I sympathize with those trying to dislodge a station camper. CCP really should look at adding the new Upwell docking mechanics to NPC stations. The reality is though that with proper insta-bookmarks and scouts, there is very little a single hub warrior who never leaves the docking ring can do to your corp. Set up a trap for when and if he comes after you and stop wasting your time fighting him on his terms. Players never have to undock to fight you, so don't waste your time.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
|
roberts dragon
Beak Enterprises TRUE VINE
72
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 15:18:45 -
[13] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:the problem is (we are talking about holysheet1 here right?) is hes a station-hugging-undock-queen.
rather than trying to overhaul wars for this specific derpy mofo, how about we get a targeted script for the mjd field generator (think HIC) so we may drad this smacktalking gobshite out of his safe space by the scruff of his neck and whelp him like he deservs.
with the added bonus of use for kidnapping angry Russians from the amarr undock...
yes ralph he is the one in question , i dont really know much abouts wars pvp etc , just learning and got me first 2 fleet kills , so starting to understand how this all works . and learning the pvp side in fleets etc .
i dont mind looseing ships have plenty of them , just think this type of war dec dont help the alpha and newer players who loose out and pros just taking the easy option .
never flown one ralph so dont know , but i do think there needs to be something done , if players do this play style at least we can go get him , not this in out shake it all about .
thats why suggested war dec roughly the same size corp player level . how many corps with 100 players are actually active .
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
20786
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 15:51:21 -
[14] - Quote
yeah sounded like him. just call him some variation of "bitter ginsoaked old lady" and enjoy him embarrassing himself in local
The take away lesson here is: Don't engage in station games. bait, isolate, overwhelm. thats the trick.
most everything else (barr neutral logi) is actually experience+numbers+intell.
station games are bullshit, and irritating ill agree but war is something every corp has to reconcile with.
that said wars do infact need some work and while i dont think this is the solution you have highlighted one of the issues ive spoken about before, that being the gulf of nuanced experiance between a dedicated (if gobbyshite) pvp group and the average corp.
Murderers of Negotiable Motivations
Lords.Of.Midnight currently recruiting
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5397
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 16:52:30 -
[15] - Quote
OP, I am a member of the biggest alliance in the game. We have over 25,000 members. Twice the size of the second biggest.
Why, exactly, should we be completely immune to wardecs? Last time I looked we were only under six, usually it's more like ten. |
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
458
|
Posted - 2017.03.28 21:52:19 -
[16] - Quote
If anything, make it a LOT cheaper for smaller groups to wardec big entities, and more expensive vice versa. At least that way you might get the bigger groups breaking up a bit. |
roberts dragon
Beak Enterprises TRUE VINE
72
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 07:58:46 -
[17] - Quote
have read and understand what most of you have said, as i have said i am new to wars and pvp ,so still on the lower rungs of the ladder , actually i look foward to a decent war , have made for corp 290 various ships and still making , just havent decent fitting skills working on that now.
every time i encounter a problem i am not sure of i ask on forums since most of the pros give out good advice , reason i now make a lot of isk in research and make and sell to a point dont even need to leave the station anymore .
the sandbox game is to be cherished , just think bits need some tweaks like this problem with station games , and going after new players , after all its the new players the game really needs to keep going . |
WitcherW
6
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 10:13:13 -
[18] - Quote
First they need to change name from High Security Space to High CONCORD Bribery Space
I dont know why we have wars in HS space that is sooo broken if aliance get war dec what is difference between HS and null? no difference at all (except HS have shity isk income) They need to move pvp in low and null space and for HS leave just duel option... |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
415
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 12:27:11 -
[19] - Quote
WitcherW wrote:First they need to change name from High Security Space to High CONCORD Bribery Space
I dont know why we have wars in HS space that is sooo broken if aliance get war dec what is difference between HS and null? no difference at all (except HS have shity isk income) They need to move pvp in low and null space and for HS leave just duel option...
How else do you propose citadel, poses, pocos etc be removed from space? Or should those just not be anchorable at all anymore?
And you can always be immune to wardecs any time you want. Just join an npc corp and never worry about them again. |
MyZhar
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 12:55:40 -
[20] - Quote
Think bigger, donGÇÖt fight a small war, make them bigger !
If your wardecced by a 1 man, or just a small corp. Go and find out whom his old friends and alts are. Wardec those yourself aslong as the war takes.
Blame your target for the inconvenience :) |
|
Grim Pac Rian
Tech Knights
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 03:44:56 -
[21] - Quote
A four man Corp shouldn't even be allowed to war dec anyone |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
302
|
Posted - 2017.04.09 04:28:38 -
[22] - Quote
Grim Pac Rian wrote:A four man Corp shouldn't even be allowed to war dec anyone
Why not? If you're losing to a four-man corp then it sure seems like you're just bad at EVE. Try not being bad? |
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:13:09 -
[23] - Quote
Serously? Fiddling around with wardecs like this is like changing the band music on the titanic.
We need to stop trying to fix what cannot be fixed and let it sink, and get on a new boat. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6387
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:28:20 -
[24] - Quote
roberts dragon wrote:we in a war against 1 corp 4 members to his corp, we have allaince with many players , i will state the problem and hopefully offer 1 idea to help ,
1 corp 4 member war decs a alliance just to farm easy kills , example when we see him he runs back to udema and just waits outsdie station in a t3 cruiser . he normally attacks we dock up come outside and attack him but havent enough firepower to kill him under the timer .
so i think with this tactics was told by pros unless we have massive fleet cant kill him with the timer so we went away , so we can only get him when he is away from station . he has good tactics been learning from him . just frustrating we just wait to see him in open to fleet up and get him.
the idea is war decs should be against same size corps size up to 6 players 12 ,24 ,36 , etc . also the timer outside a station might need looking at .
not sure but think same size corps/alliances can war dec if about same size , hopefully would make this war dec thing a positive outcome instead of , players just farming easy kills it can be worse for new players
30 guys in maelstroms with t2 guns should be able to do the trick.
But let me guess...
You are a HS alliance. You have no fleet doctrines, no alliance level skill plans to ensure people can fly the doctrine fits. You all "do whatever you like" and when group activity is needed you bring a kitchen sink fleet. Do you guys even have comms?
In short this is YOUR problem, not CCPs and you need to find a solution (psst, it is up above 30 maelstroms should have enough alpha damage to destroy his ship in one group salvo). You have 824 pilots in your alliance, you can't get 30 into maelstroms and just blap him?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6387
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:37:01 -
[25] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:I read a lot of the if you cannot kill a single T3 then you suck at EvE posts and I wonder why. As a scout that cannot do much to aide in these situations (nor am I expected to) I have watched endless hours of players trying to kill someone like this jerk that is playing station games. Watched as alpha strikes are thwarted by the insta dock versus longer lock times (relatively speaking) of the ships with the alpha strike ability. Watched a target re-dock the moment the first person bumps them so you never have time to actually bump them off the docking collar, and the list goes on and on. Getting a station hugging jerk like this off the collar so you can kill them is more about luck and patience to wait for them to make a mistake than it is about player skill.
You'd want to first engage him so he can't just insta dock. Then you'd want to use sensor boosters and/or remote sensor boosters.
Or as Merin noted, don't engage him on the station. That is what he likes, so don't give him what he likes.
But this takes coordination at a variety of levels which many HS corporations and alliances are lacking.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3868
|
Posted - 2017.04.10 21:41:59 -
[26] - Quote
Grim Pac Rian wrote:A four man Corp shouldn't even be allowed to war dec anyone
Why?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
459
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 19:24:50 -
[27] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Grim Pac Rian wrote:A four man Corp shouldn't even be allowed to war dec anyone Why?
Because "reasons" I suppose.
Anyhow, I for one would LOVE, and I do mean absolutely adore the shortbowls out of a targeted MMJD script. Oh my word the hilarious shenanigans I could get up to with that.
CCP, MAKE THIS A THING PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF BOB!!! |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2544
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 21:43:31 -
[28] - Quote
So just go about you business. If he only agresses you on a station - ignore him by docking. If comes to a gate or somewhere off station - kill him. Keep in mind if it's on a gate you need to put tackle on both sides and keep it there to keep him from jumping through and warping off.
T3 cruisers are tankable for a decent amount of time. They just don't put out that much damage. Get him to engage off station and ignore him (by docking) if he won't leave the docking ring. Use is lame tactics on him. Be patient. Explain to everyone in local that he's a risk averse cupcake and make fun of him. He'll either mess up or leave all sad and discouraged.
Your mistake is you are engaging him on his terms and playing into his strengths (lame holysheet1 dockery). Most of these guys crack quickly when they are called out in local for all to see. Their fragile egos just can't take the pressure. He'll screw up or leave you alone. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |