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Gladia Horusthu
Gallente Anything Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 19:55:00 -
[31]
I wonder how many freighters in actual corps are hit in this way?
Perhaps it is more, the end of solo trade in Eve, it now will require corporations willing to aggressively protect their assets?
Which is kind of the point in Eve, if you can't fight to protect it, someone else bigger and badder will come along and take it away. And there is always a way to do it, if the will and muscle is there.
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.04 19:58:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Blind Man Edited by: Blind Man on 04/05/2007 19:24:36 meh thats the way eve goes. ever since eve began safe space is meant to be 'SAFE' space not pvp=no zones.
you had too much value (more then 2b) in a frieghter and flew solo, means you will die :D
With the amount of damage done here the freighter would have to fly with a small fleet of it's own, which we both know is never going to happen.
I predict this is where traders will soon be able to hire NPC protection to help fend for themselves till Concord arrives. I have to agree with the bobbit on this one, isn't there more pressing business for D2 pilots?
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Celestra Ambrose
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:05:00 -
[33]
Does using freight containers make any difference? i.e. do the containers prevent ship scanners from seeing what your cargo is?
Also, I read somewhere that if you have a ganged escort ship with you that webs you, a freighter can get into warp almost instantly. Is this true?
If any of the above are viable then I see no reason for CCP to stop high-sec freighter ganking since there's ways to avoid it.
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:07:00 -
[34]
all they really need to do to fix this is not allow frieghters in npc corps.
suddenly, you will see alot of escorting.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:10:00 -
[35]
Originally by: DeadProphet mmmm shouldn't D2 have more pressing things to attend to?
That depends. If it was an alt of an enemy in a npc corp then freighter kills are a very good way to disturb the enemies logistics. Imagine that it was full of towers, pos fuel and other such (unlikely, but still...). Or imagine that it was full of t2 equipment which was destinated for the battlefront, or full of fighters... Then 15 BS in a freighter gank are a really good investment!
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Elite
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:11:00 -
[36]
holy crap i was just flying through as the dust settled in my providence....lucky me eh? damn, i was just saying "i bet thiis hasnt even happened yet" i now officially change my stance on freighter ganking, its lame, has no use, and your just making more work for CCP. ------------- my sig is teh dead
the mods shall not have my sig, if they do i'll kill CCP's hamsters.
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turnschuh
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:16:00 -
[37]
Edited by: turnschuh on 04/05/2007 20:14:03
The hole problem with using suiciding freighters as income is that it just isnt worth it.
proft per person = loot dropped / number of poeple needed
With an avarange of 20 people needed, this means 1 freighter has carry stuff worth more then 2 billion so that a single person get 100mil profit from that. Inculde the loss of insurance, modules used and that not all loot survives you need to target for freighters wich carry over 5billion in assets in various stacks.
Finding those freighters can be utterly boring and you are better of suiciding normal haulers.
IMHO freighter suicide is only an option for griefing, economic warefare or "see if we can do it" purposes.
It is NOT worth to farm. sadly.
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Countess Amarra
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:19:00 -
[38]
I fully agree with the undock /pvp on ethos, but here is a little point. When you commit a hostile act in high sec, concord appears and jams your ship to stop you doing what you were doing, and they then pop you. The fact that domis are able to do their damage while being jammed circumvents the concord jamming and is a side effect of one of the benefits of a drone boat. This is what I would consider a borderline exploit, as it circumvents the intended protection that jamming would provide.
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easei
Energy.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:21:00 -
[39]
doesnt matter how many escorts you have TBH.. 40 seconds isn't going to see the end of the domi's before your freighter is dead. Your fleet can't lock and fire that fast.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn all they really need to do to fix this is not allow frieghters in npc corps.
suddenly, you will see alot of escorting.
And this is a good thing?
The seller will charge for the escot time and cost. So in the end the fun of a 0,1% of the player base cost to all the other 99,9%.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:22:00 -
[41]
After looking at the picture all I can say is: Look at the bright side, your skill finish training! now you can train something else. |
Gladia Horusthu
Gallente Anything Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:22:00 -
[42]
I know that if I was in an active war and knew my enemy's logistical alts, I'd be there in a heartbeat. Profit? Doesn't matter, as long as I destroy a greater value than I lose.
Eve warfare is mainly economic and logistical. I hate the idea of killboards, because what matters isn't killmails but the ISK value of disrupted activity. For example, having a couple of cloaked pilots in a rich system farmed by an enemy can cause more economic harm than a battle-- you lose the value of a pilot capable of T2 ship piloting, and the enemy might lose hours upon hours of highly productive work necessary to continue operations against you.
Killing the alts of enemies flying freighters can be extremely useful, because then they have to redistribute manpower and perhaps restructure to try to protect future investments. That is entirely apart from the ISK value of what is destroyed.
Effective war in Eve isn't really about destroying, it is about demoralizing and interfering with one's enemy. This is particularly true since alts are so common. Just about every alliance I have had dealings with have had industrial alts. Some set up corps, some just use npc corps to shelter their pilots. I've done it myself, but it still makes me feel...dirty.
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:30:00 -
[43]
High sec freighters griefing has to stop. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Marquis Dean
Originally by: Blind Man meh thats the way eve goes. ever since eve began safe space is meant to be 'SAFE' space not pvp=no zones.
Then why were PRVTR nerfed?
thats a lot different
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Dolika
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:46:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger After looking at the picture all I can say is: Look at the bright side, your skill finish training! now you can train something else.
Nah. Im training up skills on an alt char. Hate giving that 2% taxes when setting up sell orders. It amounts to a fair amount of isk over time ;)
The freighter was carrying T2 stuff destinated to the markets of EvE. I am in no way affiliated with any of the corporations hostile toward D2.
I would also like to point out my ship was not cargo scanned before being destroyed. At least not without a passive targetter and i would also like to stress i jumped upon arrival so i was not scanned sitting in the opposite side of the gate.
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Caol
The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:50:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Caol on 04/05/2007 20:47:58 How to avoid this in the future.
a) Fly a scout 1 jump ahead, if he/she spots any 15+ blobs of battleships dock up or take another route.
b) Fly with a corp member in a rapier/hugin who jumps with you, decloaks and moves back onto the gate, then as you (the freighter) decloak to warp, he locks and webs you. As he is in your corp he is able to web you in high sec space and you will enter warp instantaneously.
c) Fly with an a damnation and/or vulture running the gang link modules that increase your armour and shield resists. One will be you squad leader, the other will have to be you wing or fleet commander. This will boost your resists and possibly allow concord enough time to react and eliminate the suiciders (is possible i guess). Make sure they decloak and activate their modules before you decloak.
d) From now on, don't fly your freighter alone in empire.
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Mox Trident
Minmatar Erimus Blueprints
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:55:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Mox Trident on 04/05/2007 20:51:37 If you put your cargo inside freight containers no one can see what you're carrying (if anything). Gankers will either leave you alone thinking you have nothing in your cargo hold or take a big risk in blowing you up in a hope that you're using freight containers with valuable loot inside them.
Afaik even the actual containers themselves don't even show up on a cargo scan so your hold looks totally empty.
Capital Ship BPC packages now available from Erimus Blueprints |
Kusanagi2501
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Posted - 2007.05.04 20:56:00 -
[48]
Ganking an afk hauler is one thing, they deserve it, but this is ridiculous.
A 1 billion + ISK ship should not die so easily and so quickly under any conditions. Freighters simply need fitting slots for defensive capability.
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Kiviar
Caldari Dirty Sanchez Ltd
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:01:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Caol
d) From now on, don't fly your freighter alone in empire.
QFT
There are lots of ways you can avoid having your freighter taken out. Dont settle in to a routine, this makes it easy for people to track you. Never fly with more then 2billion in your hold. Always, always fly with escorts. Even a single scout can help avoid disaster. However, these steps seem to require a level of common sense that most NPC corp freighter pilots lack. Therefore all I can say to you is remember to insure.
Forums are what? |
Kusanagi2501
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:03:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn all they really need to do to fix this is not allow frieghters in npc corps.
suddenly, you will see alot of escorting.
Escorting freighters in high-sec! NO! Who are you going to find that wants to spend his day doing that! And I thought mining was boring!
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:07:00 -
[51]
Guess we're back to killrights as a commodity then as there seems to be no way to counter this suicide gank. Getting killrights of everyone participating and being able to trade these would be nice.
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Athena Attom
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:17:00 -
[52]
Am I correct in thinking that it was d2 suicide ganking a freighter in empire? fix it dont nerf it. |
Shiguni Jhi
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:19:00 -
[53]
I'm still trying to grasp the idea of a gang suiciding a freighter for some type of gain in empire space. Are people really that bored and unimaginative? How many better ways are there to make money or to pvp? Either there are some amazingly bored and lazy players or just some people with sick ideas of entertainment. Either way, it ought to be countered with some kind of faster or latent CONCORD action.
If we can't be safe in high-sec in an NPC corp, then that's screwed up.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:40:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kusanagi2501 Ganking an afk hauler is one thing, they deserve it, but this is ridiculous.
A 1 billion + ISK ship should not die so easily and so quickly under any conditions. Freighters simply need fitting slots for defensive capability.
Yeah, those big tubs need some slots now. Never really understood why they didn't have them in the first place. If there's issues with too much capacity, just make it impossible to fit extenders.
However! I remember some "Tax NPC Corps" threads quite a few months back where people were complaining about big alliances using freighter driving alts in noob corps to do their empire logistics. And those alts were supposedly "unwar-dec'able, untouchable, god mode"...
Well, Hidy-Ho 2007!
------------------- Say What? |
whisk
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:45:00 -
[55]
YARRRRR
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:49:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Mox Trident Edited by: Mox Trident on 04/05/2007 20:51:37 If you put your cargo inside freight containers no one can see what you're carrying (if anything). Gankers will either leave you alone thinking you have nothing in your cargo hold or take a big risk in blowing you up in a hope that you're using freight containers with valuable loot inside them.
Afaik even the actual containers themselves don't even show up on a cargo scan so your hold looks totally empty.
can you confirm this because regular containers in regular haulers do show up ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Tiberyya Za
Gallente Bellum Aeternus The Makhai
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:51:00 -
[57]
Quote: Guess we're back to killrights as a commodity then as there seems to be no way to counter this suicide gank.
The damage comes from drones. Kill the drones (smartbomb) or disrupt the drones (ECM burst). Concord will eventually deal with the aggressor.
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Ki An
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.05.04 21:55:00 -
[58]
Originally by: SiJira
can you confirm this because regular containers in regular haulers do show up
Doesn't work afaik. Still, putting expensive stuff together in a container, and have lots of other containers in cargo can still be a good idea. It's a bit of a gamble really, as either all the good stuff gets blown up, or all survive. If you distribute it between two containers there's a fair chance at least half will get blown up. This matters only if you don't plan on taking back your stuff of course...
...which brings us to the problem of NPC corp freighters, as they can't protect their wreck when they get popped. This is what makes a PC corp freighter all the better now that freighters are a target. You don't need 20 escorts to just protect your cargo. Two combat fitted ones should suffice, as they can then guard the wreckage until industrials can be mobilized to scoop what survived. The escort aditionally serves as quite the deterrent for suicide gankers as the gankers have no way of ensuring they will get the dropped cargo, thus making it unprofitable.
Problem solved! Keep your freighters in a PC corp. Bring two combat fitted BS as escort. If there's a war on, don't undock your freighter unless you have a suitably larger escort.
/Ki
Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.05.04 22:12:00 -
[59]
Give Freighters a single hi-slot. They ya can fit a cloak (why in the hell would you bother? lol) or a med / large smarty... or... a D.D.D.
C'mon.... you KNOW you want to....
"I'm going down sharon..." *Click* tick tick tick tick *Boom* "... Totally worth it " ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Del Narveux
Obsidian Angels Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.04 22:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tiberyya Za The damage comes from drones. Kill the drones (smartbomb) or disrupt the drones (ECM burst). Concord will eventually deal with the aggressor.
Gets you concorded yourself + doesnt work near gates. Solution is to give freighters a few slots, if theyre going to be lootable like regular ships they at least need to have a modicum of protection. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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