Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Chris Wagi
Voices of War - Research and Production Evictus.
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 02:36:22 -
[1] - Quote
I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!! |
Cade Windstalker
1216
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 02:38:24 -
[2] - Quote
Know what else is a mess? Getting your account/computer/tax information back because someone stuffed an Eve website full of malicious code and the Eve browser hasn't had a meaningful security patch in two years. |
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1156
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 02:51:59 -
[3] - Quote
- Eve online
- Remove Stuff - Nurf the game - Sell SP/ISK to make profit - FTP (for getting more kills to boost up marketing and so old fappers have something to do in this game like gate camping everywhere) - Make it "Casual" all for the greater good
Nope CCP will continue this patch. And fingers cross the are not staying at this rampage patch! |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7530
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 04:12:43 -
[4] - Quote
You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
60971
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 04:38:50 -
[5] - Quote
I agree with the OP. And for those who say the IGB allowed your computer to be susceptible to malicious code, I say get a better security program for your computer.
I use to play Eve in full windowed mode and due to CCP removing the IGB, I now have to play the game in windowed mode so I can access my out of game Internet Browser. Don't particularly like having my computer work harder by having my browser open to access Eve related info needed to play this game.
When the IGB was active in-game, I used it extensively to reference Eve-Survival and Evelopedia for information. All links to Evelopedia opened in the IGB so any danger of contracting malicious code was negligible. Along with removing the IGB, Evelopedia was another bad removal decision by CCP.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6309
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 05:43:40 -
[6] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
Or 3 or even 4...is 5 too many?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Kia Heaven
We Are Clowns
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 06:25:50 -
[7] - Quote
Well, you can actually add EvE as a non-Steam game and use the Steam overlay which includes a fully functional browser. |
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
30508
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 06:57:05 -
[8] - Quote
I have one monitor (1920x1080) and I am playing EVE in fixed window. Alt tabing works smoother and I can see EVE window in the background, while I have firefox window resized to see local, local chat, ship health bars and modules and drones window and bit of overview. I have DevEdition theme enabler installed in the firefox, it gives it look slightly similar to default EVE color theme.
Maybe you could try that too? I like that for myself.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Chewytowel Haklar
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
256
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 07:25:52 -
[9] - Quote
But they banned Casino's, so no reason to have IGB anymore |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2128
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 07:30:38 -
[10] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
Or use Overwolf Overlay?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
|
Alexander Bor
Aliastra Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 10:16:38 -
[11] - Quote
Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!!
It is not safe. The wise decision of CCP to remove it. |
Aves Asio
56
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 11:50:29 -
[12] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
Would you be so kind to buy me a second monitor? |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61009
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 11:53:30 -
[13] - Quote
Alexander Bor wrote:Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!! It is not safe. The wise decision of CCP to remove it. Seems a lot of people keep saying that and in my 8+ years of playing this game I've never heard of anyone contracting a virus or having a security breach on their computers due to the IGB.
I think CCP removed it for the same reason they removed the in-game jukebox and for the same reason they removed the Evelopedia and for the same reason they're removing these forums.
It's all about downsizing their server's expenditures.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1161
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 12:22:32 -
[14] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:And for those who say the IGB allowed your computer to be susceptible to malicious code, I say get a better security program for your computer. As someone that actually does understand something about ITSec, your advice is utter bullshit at best and it doesn't fix anything about the underlying problem.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Cade Windstalker
1221
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 12:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Seems a lot of people keep saying that and in my 8+ years of playing this game I've never heard of anyone contracting a virus or having a security breach on their computers due to the IGB.
I think CCP removed it for the same reason they removed the in-game jukebox and for the same reason they removed the Evelopedia and for the same reason they're removing these forums.
It's all about downsizing their server's expenditures.
DMC
I have, there used to be a certain class of Jita spammer (probably still is for all I know) that would spam links to malicious websites. There were never very many of them and they tended to get perma-banned pretty quickly, but they definitely existed.
Stuff like the IGB, Jukebox, and Evelopedia were removed not because of serve expense but because of the cost in dev time. All of these things suck fairly large amounts of dev time to keep curated and working relative to their benefit to the community. The Jukebox and IGB are both client side, they cost zero server time. The Evelopedia doesn't cost nearly as much in server resources as you might think, being a static website, it was just a mess for CCP to keep up to date and curated.
Oh and as for the idea that you can just "get a better security program" just no, that's not how any of this works. The whole point of a vulnerability is that it gets someone around your firewall and your anti-virus, and if the attacker is remotely clever about it they can then disable or hobble them so whatever they've done won't be detected. Assuming they've even done something, rather than just running some malicious code in the IGB without actually installing anything permanent. It can just sit there and scrape passwords or whatever and nothing will show up on your next virus scan.
The idea that something as old and held together with duct tape as the IGB could have its security concerns removed just by running AV software is ridiculous. |
Daemun Khanid
dirt 'n' glitter Siege Green.
703
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 12:45:01 -
[16] - Quote
There are "always on top" utilities that allow you to keep your browser window open just like if you were using IGB. Just set it up and size it where you want it. While I do hate to see game elements removed for streamlining (looking at you advanced audio settings) the IGB was destined for the graveyard. A game developer should be spending time on gameplay not constantly updating compatability and security on a web browser.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3291
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 13:47:37 -
[17] - Quote
Aves Asio wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing. Would you be so kind to buy me a second monitor?
#NoPoors |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1379
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 15:20:41 -
[18] - Quote
It's dead, Jim.
Eve requires a second monitor anyway
@lunettelulu7
|
grin man
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 15:28:13 -
[19] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
Oh so i will be able to right click on dotlan and set destination on this second monitor? |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
416
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 15:49:15 -
[20] - Quote
there whole reason for removing IGB wasn't because of security at all. the sole comment given for its removal is
"it's too much work to keep it updated"
over the years CCP has proved a to shun as much work as they can because something's too much or programming is hard
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
|
|
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1379
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 15:53:56 -
[21] - Quote
grin man wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing. Oh so i will be able to right click on dotlan and set destination on this second monitor?
I'll test DOTLAN tonight, but you already can on Pathfinder
@lunettelulu7
|
Teros Hakomairos
science and trade institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 16:16:34 -
[22] - Quote
Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!!
NO...
It's CCP's property........
no wishes,no demands......
you can always leave,there is the door..... |
Zircon Dasher
352
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 17:04:06 -
[23] - Quote
I want a mankini made of Monarch butterflies.
Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28105
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 17:04:13 -
[24] - Quote
No, it was removed for good reason. Would you use a crippled browser that was out of date when it was implemented, and has rarely if ever been patched in the years since, in a software product that you're trying to sell?
Use a second monitor or any of the numerous free apps/overlays that allow you to have an always on top browser.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 17:10:14 -
[25] - Quote
Absolutely a second monitor.
I got a 5:4, 19 inch for free from work. Does its job.
PYFA, Dotlan, Tripwire sooooo easy.
P.S. 'Win' + 'Shift', toggle left and right arrow
If you can't beat them, join them.
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28105
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 17:20:55 -
[26] - Quote
Trasch Taranogas wrote:Absolutely a second monitor.
I got a 5:4, 19 inch for free from work. Does its job.
PYFA, Dotlan, Tripwire sooooo easy.
P.S. 'Win' + 'Shift', toggle left and right arrow I just plug into the TV, and use my normal monitor as the secondary. Eve on a big screen TV is a sight to behold.
BTW are you sure it's not "win" + "tab"?
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
|
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 17:24:29 -
[27] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
BTW are you sure it's not "win" + "tab"?
Using Nordic keyboard. Flips browser between monitors.
If you can't beat them, join them.
|
Cade Windstalker
1225
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 20:56:13 -
[28] - Quote
Agondray wrote:there whole reason for removing IGB wasn't because of security at all. the sole comment given for its removal is
"it's too much work to keep it updated"
over the years CCP has proved a to shun as much work as they can because something's too much or programming is hard
What, exactly, did you think they were having to keep it updated with?
Security was specifically discussed as a main concern, you can go back and dig up the removal thread if you want to read about it, a bunch of devs were active in that thread. There were also concerns over it not being able to even display a lot of newer web pages, but the security issues it presented were the primary concern.
After all, CCP are an internet spaceships company, not a web browser company.
Also please learn to read "too much work" not as "lazy" but as "takes too much time away from other things" because that's what that means in dev land. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
648
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 23:21:17 -
[29] - Quote
Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!!
Get a second screen and stop being poor. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1081
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 23:30:01 -
[30] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
I've played for five years on a laptop while sitting on my couch. Now I need to buy multiple monitors to play properly, just because CCP didn't want to patch the in game browser? Last I checked it's hard to set up multiple monitors in front of me on a couch. |
|
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
648
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 23:39:27 -
[31] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I've played for five years on a laptop while sitting on my couch. Now I need to buy multiple monitors to play properly, just because CCP didn't want to patch the in game browser? Last I checked it's hard to set up multiple monitors in front of me on a couch.
Ever upgraded an ingame browser?
|
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt Dot Dot Dot
90
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 00:27:59 -
[32] - Quote
Wow.
Internet couch-potatoes are calling video game devs lazy because re-inventing the wheel is impractical .
The Nintendo Switch? It was hacked almost instantly from an old version of WebKit that was included to view things like ToS in a 'browser' like program.
Anybody with a brain can see why CCP ditched re-inventing the modern web-browser. I'd rather have content. |
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1166
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 00:56:17 -
[33] - Quote
There is good developers
And there is bad developers
Good thing i am not so smart otherwise i would laugh at the idea that stop / play / skip a song require simultaneous effort of 5 dev teams to maintain.
I think that dude they kept locked in server room to swap manually vinyls finally got away.
You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear
Because >>I is to hard
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1431
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 02:33:45 -
[34] - Quote
Id just love to see some integration for overlays for other browsers. But I see there are suitable other programs anyways. Itd still be cool to do though. Same with integration of popular music players to return the jukebox in some fashion. But I doubt itd be super easy or necessary.
But yes a second monitor is a lot more fun imo.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61045
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 02:44:20 -
[35] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:And for those who say the IGB allowed your computer to be susceptible to malicious code, I say get a better security program for your computer. As someone that actually does understand something about ITSec, your advice is utter bullshit at best and it doesn't fix anything about the underlying problem. The utter bullshit around here in almost every thread is constantly coming from you. As I said before, I never had any security problems at all when using the IGB and I used it quite extensively when logged into the game. Please post links to forum threads where players claimed their computers were infected by malicious content due to using the IGB.
Cade Windstalker wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Seems a lot of people keep saying that and in my 8+ years of playing this game I've never heard of anyone contracting a virus or having a security breach on their computers due to the IGB.
I think CCP removed it for the same reason they removed the in-game jukebox and for the same reason they removed the Evelopedia and for the same reason they're removing these forums.
It's all about downsizing their server's expenditures.
DMC I have, there used to be a certain class of Jita spammer (probably still is for all I know) that would spam links to malicious websites. There were never very many of them and they tended to get perma-banned pretty quickly, but they definitely existed. Stuff like the IGB, Jukebox, and Evelopedia were removed not because of serve expense but because of the cost in dev time. All of these things suck fairly large amounts of dev time to keep curated and working relative to their benefit to the community. The Jukebox and IGB are both client side, they cost zero server time. The Evelopedia doesn't cost nearly as much in server resources as you might think, being a static website, it was just a mess for CCP to keep up to date and curated. Oh and as for the idea that you can just "get a better security program" just no, that's not how any of this works. The whole point of a vulnerability is that it gets someone around your firewall and your anti-virus, and if the attacker is remotely clever about it they can then disable or hobble them so whatever they've done won't be detected. Assuming they've even done something, rather than just running some malicious code in the IGB without actually installing anything permanent. It can just sit there and scrape passwords or whatever and nothing will show up on your next virus scan. The idea that something as old and held together with duct tape as the IGB could have its security concerns removed just by running AV software is ridiculous. Another great example of utter bullshit. There was very little Dev time spent on the Jukebox, the IGB and Evelopedia after they were implemented. Also none of those applications were client side, only the control settings for those applications were client side.
As for players computers being infected by malicious content due to the IGB, please post links to examples of that actually happening to Eve Players. I've been an active member of these forums for almost 8 years and I've never once seen any thread claiming that issue.
Some of you people are really quite gullible and will believe anything CCP says. Guess you don't realize the age old meme of SoonGäó actually pertains to Dev's and their claims here in Eve.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Cade Windstalker
1227
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 03:05:11 -
[36] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Another great example of utter bullshit. There was very little Dev time spent on the Jukebox, the IGB and Evelopedia after they were implemented. Also none of those applications were client side, only the control settings for those applications were client side.
As for players computers being infected by malicious content due to the IGB, please post links to examples of that actually happening to Eve Players. I've been an active member of these forums for almost 8 years and I've never once seen any thread claiming that issue.
Some of you people are really quite gullible and will believe anything CCP says. Guess you don't realize the age old meme of SoonGäó actually pertains to Dev's and their claims here in Eve.
DMC
Look, DMC, I have a fair amount of respect for you normally but you're waaaaay off the mark here.
First off, the Jukebox and IGB are both entirely client-side applications. The Jukebox ran in the game and loaded music from your PC, either from your Eve install or from a local file folder. It never had to talk to the Eve servers to work or do any of the things it did.
Similarly the IGB is entirely client side. It takes web pages from the web and displayed them in *your client*.
Both took dev time to keep working and maintain. I suspect you're saying they took none because we never saw any significant updates to them, but that's kind of the problem here. They took dev time just by existing. The Jukebox had to keep up with updates to audio formats, even old ones get updates sometimes. The IGB had a similar but much larger issue in that web pages are a constantly evolving standard, and at the point it was retired the IGB was equivalent to something like IE-6 or 7, or like Chrome 1.0 which is *ancient*. That's without getting into the bug reports either of those generated, which is another drain on dev time.
The Evelopedia took up time to curate and keep up to date, and in the last few years of its life it was basically *never* up to date, and every time there was something missing off it someone at CCP had to spend time to update it.
I personally don't have any instances that I can point to of someone losing their account due to the IGB, but I wouldn't really expect there to be any anyways. First off, if someone's lost their account they can't post about it here. On top of that it's not like this is some hacker movie where the screen flickers as soon as the bad link is clicked. You click the link, a page loads for a sec and waits a second, and then it either sends you off to whatever legit Eve site it was pretending to be or it's malicious code that's been snuck into the site in question through an ad or something.
That's without getting into CCP's own API and the info the IGB could give someone without even having to break anything.
With the IGB, Jukebox, and Evelopedia CCP were given a choice between spending a lot of time and effort to update them to the point of being functional again, or they could retire them, and it was quite a reasonable thing for them to choose the latter. I'd rather have a team dedicated to new Ships or new Art or basically any other in-space feature rather than the team it would take to maintain the IGB and/or Jukebox and keep them even vaguely patched, bug fixed, and up to date.
This isn't BS, this is my professional view as someone who works with software every day. CCP did the right thing in retiring a couple of horrible old legacy applications that were so far past their sell-by date they qualified for a senior's discount at IHOP. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61046
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 05:35:26 -
[37] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Look, DMC, I have a fair amount of respect for you normally but you're waaaaay off the mark here.
First off, the Jukebox and IGB are both entirely client-side applications. The Jukebox ran in the game and loaded music from your PC, either from your Eve install or from a local file folder. It never had to talk to the Eve servers to work or do any of the things it did.
Similarly the IGB is entirely client side. It takes web pages from the web and displayed them in *your client*.
...................................................... .................................... The Evelopedia took up time to curate and keep up to date, and in the last few years of its life it was basically *never* up to date, and every time there was something missing off it someone at CCP had to spend time to update it. ................... .........
This isn't BS, this is my professional view as someone who works with software every day. CCP did the right thing in retiring a couple of horrible old legacy applications that were so far past their sell-by date they qualified for a senior's discount at IHOP.
Yeah, the feeling is mutual. I normally have respect for you too but .........................
If those applications were indeed client side then I should be able to access them without using CCP's server. Now I agree there was a setting in the client that allowed players to load their own music into the Jukebox but that was just a client side playlist for an application that could only be accessed in the game on CCP's server.
Same as the IGB, an application that could only be accessed in the game on CCP's server. Both of those applications had to 'Talk' to the server whenever the client activated them.
As for the Evelopedia, you are way off base on that. After Evelopedia was activated, Dev's spent very little time with it. The task to keep it updated went to ISD and then later to the playerbase. The main 'out of date' aspect of Evelopedia was the in-game Item Data Base which never got updated because CCP locked those pages and just didn't care about it, just like every other content they've placed within the game. In fact, quite a few of us players had a conversation with CCP here in the forums to get the Epic Arc page unlocked so we could edit and add info to it that CCP forgot to include. The same goes for other pages as well.
Obviously everything is tied in with CCP's server in one way or another, even these forums are tied in with it even though it's a web page on the internet. Why do you think there's no more mega threads allowed on the forums ? Definitely isn't due to 5 different Dev teams having to spend time updating the forums.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
325
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 05:43:02 -
[38] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
So not only are multiple accounts often advised by others, but also multiple monitors just so you can figure out the game from outside the game. Well, thats great.
|
sero Hita
science and trade institute Caldari State
338
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 06:48:01 -
[39] - Quote
Jax Bederen wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing. So not only are multiple accounts often advised by others, but also multiple monitors just so you can figure out the game from outside the game. Well, thats great.
Well tbh. if the OP was not too much of a diva to ALT-TAB, he would never have gotten that reply. So he already has a solution, which is he same you get in most other games, but somehow feels entitled to something that the Developers don't want to sustain (Which is their right). Plus there are plenty of overlays available as people have already pointed out. So no need to have two monitors to figure out the game, it works just fine without. So nice try.....
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3292
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 13:03:31 -
[40] - Quote
Jax Bederen wrote:ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing. So not only are multiple accounts often advised by others, but also multiple monitors just so you can figure out the game from outside the game. Well, thats great.
You can alt+tab if you are not a baby like OP. |
|
Lexia Nova
GeneSia-IRC Axiom Vocation Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 13:19:07 -
[41] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:You COULD get a second monitor, window eve, and not even have to bother alt tabbing.
I mean because making aspects of the game more engaging and fun is too much right? ~Get a second monitor and watch something else! Ah you cant make this stuff up |
Cade Windstalker
1228
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 13:48:37 -
[42] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yeah, the feeling is mutual. I normally have respect for you too but .........................
If those applications were indeed client side then I should be able to access them without using CCP's server. Now I agree there was a setting in the client that allowed players to load their own music into the Jukebox but that was just a client side playlist for an application that could only be accessed in the game on CCP's server.
Same as the IGB, an application that could only be accessed in the game on CCP's server. Both of those applications had to 'Talk' to the server whenever the client activated them.
That doesn't mean these aren't client-side applications. Client-side means the application runs entirely on your local machine. The Eve Online client is, believe it or not, also a Client-side application. That doesn't mean it doesn't authenticate or something similar through CCP's servers, it means it runs on your local machine. In the case of the client what it's doing is rendering the game and presenting information taken from CCP's servers, but it's still a client-side app because everything that it's intended to do (graphics, ect) it does on your local machine. All the assets, like the music for the Jukebox, are also stored on your local machine. An example of a server-side app would be these forums, they don't run at all on your local machine, the page state and background processing are done entirely on a remote server, your computer only displays the final result.
The reason you couldn't run those applications without them "talking" to CCP's servers was because they were designed to run only inside the Eve client and that has to authenticate through CCP's server. They still both run entirely locally, they don't offload anything they do to be processed on a remote server.
For reference you can still find the Eve sound files in the client if you are so inclined. They've always been there in one form or another, the custom audio folder for the old jukebox was just uncompressed and available for players to put things in without the client freaking out about checksums and unauthorized files.
DeMichael Crimson wrote:As for the Evelopedia, you are way off base on that. After Evelopedia was activated, Dev's spent very little time with it. The task to keep it updated went to ISD and then later to the playerbase. The main 'out of date' aspect of Evelopedia was the in-game Item Data Base which never got updated because CCP locked those pages and just didn't care about it, just like every other content they've placed within the game. In fact, quite a few of us players had a conversation with CCP here in the forums to get the Epic Arc page unlocked so we could edit and add info to it that CCP forgot to include. The same goes for other pages as well. Obviously everything is tied in with CCP's server in one way or another, even these forums are tied in with it even though it's a web page on the internet. Why do you think there's no more mega threads allowed on the forums ? Definitely isn't due to 5 different Dev teams having to spend time updating the forums. DMC
Some of the pages on the Evelopedia were player and ISD editable, sure, but stuff like the item tables (a substantial fraction of the info on there) were things the devs had to deal with. The same goes for stuff like that Epic Arc page you wanted unlocked, that whole discussion took dev time. Someone at CCP had to oversee the whole ISD/Player administration to deal with vandalism, access rights, and some other stuff that I honestly forget. It's been ages since I tried to do anything with Evelopedia, mostly I remember it being quite locked down for a Wiki.
The forums are being replaced because they run onold and outdated forum software, CCP is not a company that develops or has an interest in developing forum software, and if this is running on what I think it's running on their options in terms of upgrades are pretty much limited to "something not this". |
Nicola Romanoff
Tannhauser C-Beam
51
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 14:23:38 -
[43] - Quote
The only thing I used the IGB for was setting routes in dotlan, it was a beautifully easy way to nagivate around and you cannot do that anymore (unless there is another way to do it?) |
Cade Windstalker
1229
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 14:38:24 -
[44] - Quote
Nicola Romanoff wrote:The only thing I used the IGB for was setting routes in dotlan, it was a beautifully easy way to nagivate around and you cannot do that anymore (unless there is another way to do it?)
Log in to Dotlan and give it the relevant API access and it can set routes (or at least it should be able to assuming the site owner has implemented the relevant API calls). The functionality exists in the Eve API certainly. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Raumfahrer Spiff Rakett Piloot Anslutning
2776
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 15:17:10 -
[45] - Quote
Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!!
That ship has sailed. It would seem highly unlikely that would ever happen. I have found Overwolf works quite well for EvE.
EvE security zones in pictures
EvE quick reference pdf
EvE links
|
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1643
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 19:28:17 -
[46] - Quote
Isn't this one of those redundant threads that needs to be locked?
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1643
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 19:31:34 -
[47] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: The forums are being replaced because they run onold and outdated forum software, CCP is not a company that develops or has an interest in developing forum software, and if this is running on what I think it's running on their options in terms of upgrades are pretty much limited to "something not this".
I have been begging them to switch to "something not this" since they put "this" into place.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1175
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 20:53:58 -
[48] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:And for those who say the IGB allowed your computer to be susceptible to malicious code, I say get a better security program for your computer. As someone that actually does understand something about ITSec, your advice is utter bullshit at best and it doesn't fix anything about the underlying problem. The utter bullshit around here in almost every thread is constantly coming from you. As I said before, I never had any security problems at all when using the IGB and I used it quite extensively when logged into the game. Please post links to forum threads where players claimed their computers were infected by malicious content due to using the IGB. Cade Windstalker wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Seems a lot of people keep saying that and in my 8+ years of playing this game I've never heard of anyone contracting a virus or having a security breach on their computers due to the IGB.
I think CCP removed it for the same reason they removed the in-game jukebox and for the same reason they removed the Evelopedia and for the same reason they're removing these forums.
It's all about downsizing their server's expenditures.
DMC I have, there used to be a certain class of Jita spammer (probably still is for all I know) that would spam links to malicious websites. There were never very many of them and they tended to get perma-banned pretty quickly, but they definitely existed. Stuff like the IGB, Jukebox, and Evelopedia were removed not because of serve expense but because of the cost in dev time. All of these things suck fairly large amounts of dev time to keep curated and working relative to their benefit to the community. The Jukebox and IGB are both client side, they cost zero server time. The Evelopedia doesn't cost nearly as much in server resources as you might think, being a static website, it was just a mess for CCP to keep up to date and curated. Oh and as for the idea that you can just "get a better security program" just no, that's not how any of this works. The whole point of a vulnerability is that it gets someone around your firewall and your anti-virus, and if the attacker is remotely clever about it they can then disable or hobble them so whatever they've done won't be detected. Assuming they've even done something, rather than just running some malicious code in the IGB without actually installing anything permanent. It can just sit there and scrape passwords or whatever and nothing will show up on your next virus scan. The idea that something as old and held together with duct tape as the IGB could have its security concerns removed just by running AV software is ridiculous. Another great example of utter bullshit. There was very little Dev time spent on the Jukebox, the IGB and Evelopedia after they were implemented. Also none of those applications were client side, only the control settings for those applications were client side. As for players computers being infected by malicious content due to the IGB, please post links to examples of that actually happening to Eve Players. I've been an active member of these forums for almost 8 years and I've never once seen any thread claiming that issue. Some of you people are really quite gullible and will believe anything CCP says. Guess you don't realize the age old meme of SoonGäó actually pertains to Dev's and their claims here in Eve. DMC It's fairly obvious that you don't understand anything at all about software engineering, so instead of talking about things you have zero clue about, why don't you just shut up?
It gets dangerous when people like you "educate" others about IT-security. That makes the job of the people that actually do have a clue about IT-security harder, because we have to set the record straight and educate people about all the bullshit they believe in because of people like you.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
61089
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 23:54:09 -
[49] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote: It's fairly obvious that you don't understand anything at all about software engineering, so instead of talking about things you have zero clue about, why don't you just shut up?
It gets dangerous when people like you "educate" others about IT-security. That makes the job of the people that actually do have a clue about IT-security harder, because we have to set the record straight and educate people about all the bullshit they believe in because of people like you.
What's dangerous is people like you running around shooting off your mouth like Chicken Little saying 'The Sky Is Falling', either produce some proof to back up your claim that the IGB allowed player computers to become infected by malicious content or take your own advice and STFU.
By the way, doesn't matter what you say your profession is, if you can't prove it to be true then it's just a bunch of BS.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1083
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 00:40:37 -
[50] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I've played for five years on a laptop while sitting on my couch. Now I need to buy multiple monitors to play properly, just because CCP didn't want to patch the in game browser? Last I checked it's hard to set up multiple monitors in front of me on a couch.
Ever upgraded an ingame browser?
Being a developer for EVE online isn't my job, so no. If I told my boss I was going to scrap a system in my company instead of replacing it with something better, he'd be less than happy, to say the least. |
|
Ranzabar
Golden Ratio One Six One
187
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 00:46:05 -
[51] - Quote
Can we tie it down nice and tight? If it leaks me out and lets ads or worse in, No. I don't see the upside with the in-game browser
Abide
|
Oraac Ensor
759
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 01:08:30 -
[52] - Quote
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!! That ship has sailed. It would seem highly unlikely that would ever happen. I have found Overwolf works quite well for EvE. edit: Overwolf Works very well for EvE. I tried Overwolf immediately after the IGB was removed.
It was horrible.
Very cumbersome to use and also plastered a gigantic yellow frame counter at top left of my screen which I could find no way of removing. |
Shae Tadaruwa
science and trade institute Caldari State
1633
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 01:19:52 -
[53] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Some of you people are really quite gullible and will believe anything CCP says. Guess you don't realize the age old meme of SoonGäó actually pertains to Dev's and their claims here in Eve.
DMC
The IGB used a version of Chromium 3, modified specifically to work in the client. It wasn't trivial to update it (can't find that quote at the moment).
So there were more than just security issues. However on the security vulnerabilities, look through this list:
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product_id-15031/opec-1/Google-Chrome.html
Keeping software patched is important for security, even if you don't have direct stats on the number of infections/etc. that may have resulted from IGB use.
However, there was also the fact that most people never used the IGB:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6271564#post6271564
and that much of the functionality it was used for was replaced by CREST:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bidding-farewell-to-the-in-game-browser/
When you look at the performance of the IGB compared to more modern browsers:
https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1058007 https://www.reddit.com/r/evetech/comments/2njvtn/ingame_browser_and_javascript_xpost_from_reve/
Not only in terms of speed, but also functionality it was a piece of bespoke crap.
Unfortunately, possibly because of its poor performance and vulnerabilities, not enough people used it to cause CCP to care.
For one, I'm glad they have left browser development up to companies that develop browsers and instead, focus on the game.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Cade Windstalker
1237
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 02:31:09 -
[54] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:What's dangerous is people like you running around shooting off your mouth like Chicken Little saying 'The Sky Is Falling', either produce some proof to back up your claim that the IGB allowed player computers to become infected by malicious content or take your own advice and STFU.
By the way, doesn't matter what you say your profession is, if you can't prove it to be true then it's just a bunch of BS.
DMC
No one is shooting their mouth off here, we're trying to educate you on why old and outdated web-browsers are the equivalent of taking all the locks off your doors and windows at home. Sure, you might not get robbed, but you've just made yourself a *much* easier target for it.
Since none of us have the IGB in front of us to pen-test for your amusement you're going to have to trust a bit of outside knowledge here, because it's highly unlikely even if the IGB *did* result directly in someone's account getting compromised that they would be aware of what caused it or that CCP would publicize the fact. Combine that with the prohibition against talking about support tickets and it's highly unlikely that you'll find a direct link between a compromised account and the IGB.
Shae has about the closest you're going to get to proof in that they actually remember what the core of the IGB was made from. To add a bit to what they've written according to the relevant wiki article Chromium 3 was release 28 May 2009. That puts it at around the same time as Internet Explorer 7.
That means it's vulnerable to [just about every single vulnerability listed on CVE Details with a Score of 9 or greater](https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list.php?vendor_id=1224&product_id=15031&version_id=&page=1&hasexp=0&opdos=0&opec=1&opov=0&opcsrf=0&opgpriv=0&opsqli=0&opxss=0&opdirt=0&opmemc=0&ophttprs=0&opbyp=0&opfileinc=0&opginf=0&cvssscoremin=9&cvssscoremax=0&year=0&month=0&cweid=0&order=1&trc=59&sha=c8c867bdf88d1afa3b2f9977dd88fbfd8f8a44bb) of which all but one use the words "Arbitrary Code" to describe what they could be used for.
That essentially means that if I can exploit that vulnerability through your machine I can do just about anything I want to with it, at which point your Eve password is the least of your worries, I can get that, anything in your email like bank info and credit cards, add your machine to a bot net, and all sorts of other fun things.
Do you get that this isn't BS, this isn't rampant paranoia, and this isn't anyone making stuff up to justify a decision. I'm sure plenty of people at CCP were sad to see the IGB go, but I doubt any of them wanted to be in charge of trying to keep the damned thing up to date either.
"Piece of bespoke crap" pretty much sums it up. |
Elmund Egivand
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2134
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 03:47:36 -
[55] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!! That ship has sailed. It would seem highly unlikely that would ever happen. I have found Overwolf works quite well for EvE. edit: Overwolf Works very well for EvE. I tried Overwolf immediately after the IGB was removed. It was horrible. Very cumbersome to use and also plastered a gigantic yellow frame counter at top left of my screen which I could find no way of removing.
Overwolf in its current incarnation is actually pretty nice to use. The yellow frame counter you could remove in the settings menu.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1176
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 06:56:33 -
[56] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Linus Gorp wrote: It's fairly obvious that you don't understand anything at all about software engineering, so instead of talking about things you have zero clue about, why don't you just shut up?
It gets dangerous when people like you "educate" others about IT-security. That makes the job of the people that actually do have a clue about IT-security harder, because we have to set the record straight and educate people about all the bullshit they believe in because of people like you.
What's dangerous is people like you running around shooting off your mouth like Chicken Little saying 'The Sky Is Falling', either produce some proof to back up your claim that the IGB allowed player computers to become infected by malicious content or take your own advice and STFU. By the way, doesn't matter what you say your profession is, if you can't prove it to be true then it's just a bunch of BS. DMC You're one of those classic backseat drivers of the internet. Spread their "knowledge" all around but have absolutely nothing to back it up when they get called out by the people with real knowledge that see their crap for what it really is. One of these classic "you should use language X" people that can never show any code whatsoever. That you think jukebox and IGB took no dev time just for existing tells every half-arsed SE that your entire opinion on the subject is nothing but thin air and smoke and can be disregarded as "person talking without having the slightest clue".
I'm a renowned security researcher and you're just a talker talking about things you don't understand anything about. Trying to educate people like you is like talking to a wall, thus I won't even bother with it. It's not my problem what you believe in, but don't spread your non-existent "knowledge" all around and make others believe your crap. It's one thing putting yourself at risk, another thing entirely when you draw others along with you. Just because you're one of the lucky few that aren't affected by a specific vulnerability doesn't magically make that vulnerability disappear. If there's a zero-day in the wild that's actively exploited and say 1% of the vulnerable users are actively getting exploited, that doesn't make it any safer for the remaining 99%.
And a word about your "security software". Not only is that in pretty much every case useless and a waste of money, it's even working against you and makes it easier for an active attacker. Those security products (especially virus scanners) give you a tiny green icon that tells you all is fine and you're protected, but that's about it. For being security products, they're ridiculed with zero-days, written by developers that have little regard for actual security. It's the psychological effect you pay for, not actual security.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
606
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 09:27:28 -
[57] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Alexander Bor wrote:Chris Wagi wrote:I want back the ingame Browser!!!
its a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!!! It is not safe. The wise decision of CCP to remove it. Seems a lot of people keep saying that and in my 8+ years of playing this game I've never heard of anyone contracting a virus or having a security breach on their computers due to the IGB. I think CCP removed it for the same reason they removed the in-game jukebox and for the same reason they removed the Evelopedia and for the same reason they're removing these forums. It's all about downsizing their server's expenditures. DMC
i think ya got this one wrong, nothing to do with trying to save cash on servers, jukebox was local so no load on any servers, Evelopedia and these forums would run on a a single VM.
they're not getting rid of the forums anyway, they're upgrading/re-designing them.
IGB was handy, it is missed, but i get why they ended support for it and i'm on the side of better to be safe than sorry, plus CCP wouldn't release information on attempted and succesful attacks on peoples machines.
perhaps it did happen and it played a big part in the decision to remove it.
|
Aves Asio
59
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 11:09:10 -
[58] - Quote
This is bullshit.
Everyone and i mean EVERYONE used the igb at least once to look at funny pics and gifs.
ccp lies about statistics every time it suits them. |
Cade Windstalker
1239
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 13:48:34 -
[59] - Quote
Aves Asio wrote:This is bullshit. Everyone and i mean EVERYONE used the igb at least once to look at funny pics and gifs. ccp lies about statistics every time it suits them.
You have literally zero way to prove this.
Maybe your little corner of the game uses it a lot, personally I used it a little for a few management apps, but I pretty much never used it to view random links people posted.
On top of that CCP have no reason to lie about usage, if tons of people actually were using the IGB then they'd have an incentive to keep it around.
The only alternative I can think of is that you're both right, and CCP's stats are contaminated by alts driving down their statistics, but the only solution to that is to connect everyone's alt accounts to their mains and I don't see that going over well. I also find it highly unlikely, considering the stats CCP have collected from the playerbase show the average number of accounts per player is less than 2. |
Aves Asio
62
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 14:19:05 -
[60] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:You have literally zero way to prove this.
You also have zero way of proving that it wasnt being used, posts from devs that say the feature they are removing isnt being used doesnt have much weight.
You are basically telling me that you have never clicked on a pic link in local and that you dont know anyone who has done the same. |
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
1179
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 14:41:43 -
[61] - Quote
Aves Asio wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:You have literally zero way to prove this. You also have zero way of proving that it wasnt being used, posts from devs that say the feature they are removing isnt being used doesnt have much weight. You are basically telling me that you have never clicked on a pic link in local and that you dont know anyone who has done the same. Supporting something as complex as a web browser isn't something you do on a rainy afternoon. It takes serious development effort, even if they aren't keeping it updated (which they didn't), to just keep the thing running in its broken state. Same goes for the jukebox. Every possible change, related or not, could potentially (and likely did on more than one occasion) break that stuff and then it needed fixing, let alone the bugs and instability introduced through those features. QA had to test it again and again after every patch. That takes a little more effort than just ticking a few boxes.
Software engineering isn't just "write code and let it running", it's also about maintaining said code. Maintaining code is a lot more expensive and time-consuming than writing it and it only gets worse over time.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Aedaxus
Digital Zone Corp
12
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 14:47:47 -
[62] - Quote
Chris Wagi wrote:I would like to have the ingame browser back! It is a mess to ALT-Tab around the screen!
You can put your game in windowed mode and switch as fast as you would back and forth to any browser of your liking.
[topic closed]
It's gone, just like the time it took you to read this and other posts. Gone, forever. And you aren't getting younger. Enjoy what is out there. And it did a bad job on showing p0rn sites anyways.
|
Shae Tadaruwa
science and trade institute Caldari State
1636
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 15:35:43 -
[63] - Quote
Aves Asio wrote:This is bullshit. Everyone and i mean EVERYONE used the igb at least once to look at funny pics and gifs. ccp lies about statistics every time it suits them. Nope. Not everyone. I never used the IGB even once.
However, I do like your approach - don't like what is being said, so just claim it lies so you can ignore it. You seem like a DMC alt with that attitude.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Conrad Makbure
Trident Expedition
129
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 19:10:42 -
[64] - Quote
Holy hell, let it go. Removing the in game browser was a good thing. |
Aves Asio
64
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 23:07:11 -
[65] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Aves Asio wrote:This is bullshit. Everyone and i mean EVERYONE used the igb at least once to look at funny pics and gifs. ccp lies about statistics every time it suits them. Nope. Not everyone. I never used the IGB even once. However, I do like your approach - don't like what is being said, so just claim it lies so you can ignore it. You seem like a DMC alt with that attitude.
Yes its pretty easy, you are making it easy for me by claiming that you have never ever used igb |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1085
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 23:22:46 -
[66] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:Holy hell, let it go. Removing the in game browser was a good thing.
Why? I had the IGB up 24/7 for years. Losing it has been a massive pain. |
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
594
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 02:24:24 -
[67] - Quote
Why do you log onto Eve? To surf the net or play Eve?
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
594
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 02:29:50 -
[68] - Quote
Conrad Makbure wrote:Holy hell, let it go. Removing the in game browser was a good thing.
I agree, Todays internet browser is actually a large program that is constantly downloading data, caching files, and using system resources, they also need updating regularly. From a performance perspective getting rid of the in-game browser was a smart move.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
|
Shae Tadaruwa
science and trade institute Caldari State
1637
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 03:14:25 -
[69] - Quote
Aves Asio wrote:Yes its pretty easy, you are making it easy for me by claiming that you have never ever used igb Nope, not even once. I care about my security, so never used it.
If you want to prove otherwise, go ahead. You won't be able to, even if you had the means, since I never used it.
So the only BS DMC, is yours.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |