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The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
102
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Posted - 2017.04.08 14:59:02 -
[1] - Quote
Funny gank anecdote first:
I took a stupid risk and undocked from my mission hub with a few oranges (kill rights) outside my gate. As soon as I aligned in my garmur, ding ... pop. I knew what had happened, even though it's never happened to me before.
I convo'd the ganker, they responded, and I congratulated him. I asked for his thoughts and how undock mechanics worked; he was very helpful.
I asked him how much he was able to retrieve from my wreck, as I had invested 400mil in mods and hull. He said only 20 million. I felt bad, so I tipped him 5 mil as both a consolation and a thank you for the advice.
Bet that doesn't happen too often in this game. :)
I set him to good standings and wave whenever I see him lurking for another victim. We chat when we see each other.
He reminded me to use insta-undocks. Until the gank I was both too lazy and underestimated the likelihood of being ganked in a frigate. The wake-up call was heard.
So now to my question. Understandably, I am still very hesitant to undock from my (hi-sec) mission hub when I see several oranges and/or yellows. (And especially reds.) I've got an insta-undock set up for 250 km out.
While I realize nothing in Eve is 100%, how much protection am I adding by always using insta-undocks sending me 250 or more km? Put another way, what is the probability that I *still* get successfully ganked, assuming I'm out of range of anything at 250km.
I hear there's a 10-second invul timer on undocking, to help give your client time to load the grid. Should it take beyond this (I've had black screens up to 15-20 seconds), and I get ganked, is there any chance of petitioning successfully to get my stuff back?
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10776
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:09:47 -
[2] - Quote
The Larold wrote: While I realize nothing in Eve is 100%, how much protection am I adding by always using insta-undocks sending me 250 or more km?
Instas are the easiest protection you can give yourself. And one of the most effective.
I can't give you a percentage, but I can say you are way better off to use them than not.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1386
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:12:43 -
[3] - Quote
It's absolutely worth making 3+ insta undocks and a dock bookmark for your home station.
@lunettelulu7
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The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
102
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:17:02 -
[4] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:It's absolutely worth making 3+ insta undocks and a dock bookmark for your home station.
Noob question - why would you make 3 or more insta-undocks? Since they are generally straight in front of the station, aren't they all in the same place pretty much? ...
Unless range matters? Maybe do 250, 500, and 1,000 km ?
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Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
1172
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:30:23 -
[5] - Quote
The Larold wrote:
Noob question - why would you make 3 or more insta-undocks? Since they are generally straight in front of the station, aren't they all in the same place pretty much? ...
Unless range matters? Maybe do 250, 500, and 1,000 km ?
If someone is after you and you keep on using the same insta-undock bookmark, they will make their own in the same spot. By using a few different ones, its hard for an attacker to predict where you are going to warp to.
I tend to make a few between 400km- 1000km and then a couple 20000km+ if I use the station alot.
User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1440
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:36:23 -
[6] - Quote
If you dont make a few then they can drop probes nearby where you always land and get you there. Using more than one makes it a variable dice roll that they guess the right one that you are also using.
The only two times that an insta will get you killed is if a bunch of things happen. Your insta bmk is bad and the game tosses you out at the exact opposite angle, there is a variation cone you can be spit out at, to your bmk and you have to align in something slow for a second or more which is just enough time to instalock, scram and/or blap. Or if you, by some miracle, happen to hit warp RIGHT as you deinvul and just HAPPEN to bump into some big fat ass frieghter before you actually go to warp. This stops your warp speed at exactly the right moment and you have to now gain speed again like a normal warp. Has actually happened a few times in Jita to me, and when I say a few times I mean 2 or 3 in all my undocks in Eve.
These are very low dice rolls. The second would amount to a fraction of 1% if that and the first would be based on human error and game RNG undock mechanics combined so there is no set % you could nail down.
Cheers
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1170
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:45:08 -
[7] - Quote
In my incursion days I would carry fast ship just for BMing stations current one is Minmatar t3d it runs just under10000ms stable so it dont need to much tame to create install that is off grid too so that can't even see where you go next.
Region i call home is all BM like this and on grid as well as docking BMs even stations I don't use.
You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear
Because >>I is too hard
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1536
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:49:53 -
[8] - Quote
The Larold wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:It's absolutely worth making 3+ insta undocks and a dock bookmark for your home station. Noob question - why would you make 3 or more insta-undocks? Since they are generally straight in front of the station, aren't they all in the same place pretty much? ... Unless range matters? Maybe do 250, 500, and 1,000 km ? Don't be lazy. You want your insta undocks to be well off grid.
Remove standings and insurance.
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mkint
1706
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Insta undocks aren't just for safety even. The above example of undocking from jita, try to align to warp and bounce off every single freighter making the warp just not happen. Or you undock in a station where your gate is the exact opposite direction from your undock direction so you hit warp and you start bumping the station unable to warp. Even if everything goes right otherwise, your undock speed is greater than 100% of your normal velocity, making the time to align immediately far worse than aligning from a standstill (in EVE acceleration and deceleration are different processes and happen at different rates.) So in general, undock bookmarks are not only safer, but also make things more reliable.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
104
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Posted - 2017.04.08 15:55:06 -
[10] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:The Larold wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:It's absolutely worth making 3+ insta undocks and a dock bookmark for your home station. Noob question - why would you make 3 or more insta-undocks? Since they are generally straight in front of the station, aren't they all in the same place pretty much? ... Unless range matters? Maybe do 250, 500, and 1,000 km ? Don't be lazy. You want your insta undocks to be well off grid.
What's the proper minimum distance to ensure I'm off-grid?
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28114
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Posted - 2017.04.08 16:24:15 -
[11] - Quote
The Larold wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote:The Larold wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:It's absolutely worth making 3+ insta undocks and a dock bookmark for your home station. Noob question - why would you make 3 or more insta-undocks? Since they are generally straight in front of the station, aren't they all in the same place pretty much? ... Unless range matters? Maybe do 250, 500, and 1,000 km ? Don't be lazy. You want your insta undocks to be well off grid. What's the proper minimum distance to ensure I'm off-grid? 10,000 km+, grids can be 8000 km across since they were changed in 2015.
Relevant Dev blog
Edit~ it turns out that they may be much bigger depending on the local environment and whether or not grid-fu is being used
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
329
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Posted - 2017.04.08 17:48:08 -
[12] - Quote
That's some strong Stockholm syndrome there, you would make a great hostage. . On to the topic, yes "insta" undock is of great help, the less time someone has to think about you or to lock you the better. Basically as soon as the outside of the station loads make the jump. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
140
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Posted - 2017.04.08 18:01:50 -
[13] - Quote
I only bother with undocks if I'm carrying valuable cargo, am in a small but expensive ship (like a Garmur rigged for burner missions) or I'm flying a blockade runner (since a lot of gankers shoot them on sight).
Any chance you got ganked at Lanngisi? I always see gankers hanging around there since so many people fly expensive burner mission ships out of there. That's one place I ALWAYS use undocks. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1536
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Posted - 2017.04.08 18:15:08 -
[14] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:The Larold wrote:Mara Pahrdi wrote:The Larold wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:It's absolutely worth making 3+ insta undocks and a dock bookmark for your home station. Noob question - why would you make 3 or more insta-undocks? Since they are generally straight in front of the station, aren't they all in the same place pretty much? ... Unless range matters? Maybe do 250, 500, and 1,000 km ? Don't be lazy. You want your insta undocks to be well off grid. What's the proper minimum distance to ensure I'm off-grid? 10,000 km+, grids can be 8000 km across since they were changed in 2015. Relevant Dev blogEdit~ it turns out that they may be much bigger depending on the local environment and whether or not grid-fu is being used My insta undocks are > 20.000 km and Jita 4-4 is off grid by then. I consider 20.000 km the minimum range today.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Ioci
Bad Girl Posse Somethin Awfull Forums
609
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Posted - 2017.04.08 19:07:38 -
[15] - Quote
The trouble I found with Undock Instas is they change with Hull. I always test my instas and they will work on a Drake for example but not on a Bestower. They will be off just enough to create an align error and start the warp spool. At places like Jita 4 it starts the bump marathon and anyone that wants to alpha you down is going to.
R.I.P. Vile Rat
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
2128
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Posted - 2017.04.08 19:41:38 -
[16] - Quote
The Larold wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:It's absolutely worth making 3+ insta undocks and a dock bookmark for your home station. Noob question - why would you make 3 or more insta-undocks? Since they are generally straight in front of the station, aren't they all in the same place pretty much? ... Unless range matters? Maybe do 250, 500, and 1,000 km ? I used to use combat probes to find out peoples insta undocks... You know: you put probes on closest range and prepare to scan. Then you only need couple seconds to do the scan (probes already in place, etc...). bam! Undock bookmark is pointed.
so it is always good to have off-grid undocks and more than 1 of them
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
141
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Posted - 2017.04.08 20:27:22 -
[17] - Quote
Ioci wrote:The trouble I found with Undock Instas is they change with Hull. I always test my instas and they will work on a Drake for example but not on a Bestower. They will be off just enough to create an align error and start the warp spool. At places like Jita 4 it starts the bump marathon and anyone that wants to alpha you down is going to.
That's a function of your alignment being off by a few degrees when you burned out to make your undock bookmark. A small, fast aligning ship can make the adjustment inside of a server tick. But a larger, slower aligning ship will take a couple of seconds to make the slight turn needed if your bookmark is off. When making an undock, you need to pilot your ship manually along the undock axis using the tactical overlay to get a good bookmark.
There are a lot of guides out there. Here's one from Brave Newbies. |
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
105
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Posted - 2017.04.08 22:23:10 -
[18] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:... expensive ship (like a Garmur rigged for burner missions) ...
... you got ganked at Lanngisi? ...
This is 100% what happened, down to the ship type, station, and what I was doing. :)
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Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
142
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Posted - 2017.04.08 23:37:55 -
[19] - Quote
The Larold wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:... expensive ship (like a Garmur rigged for burner missions) ...
... you got ganked at Lanngisi? ...
This is 100% what happened, down to the ship type, station, and what I was doing. :)
Yeah, I figured. Lanngisi is a ganker's paradise because so many burner pilots fly out of there with blingy ships. You frequently see them hanging out on the station. They're not hard to avoid with undocks. There's enough low hanging fruit there that as long you make it marginally difficult, they won't bother to probe you down. |
Kathern Aurilen
227
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Posted - 2017.04.09 00:35:55 -
[20] - Quote
I have my instant warps set for my pics to about 1,000 to 1,500 K off my local trade hub. I come out and while the still untouchable, I'm in Warp. I'm still on grid when I stop, so I can see what's happening around the station. And be back in Warp before anyone can get at me at that. distance
No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!
Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
770
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Posted - 2017.04.09 02:47:02 -
[21] - Quote
Some personal advice when it comes to insta-undock bookmarks...
Sometimes I use a cloaky and just tab out to watch Youtube or take a shower while I slowboat out to greater and greater distances. Sometimes I use something really fast to make a distant bookmark. If I'm doing the latter, I'm always scanning for combat probes or any local ships. But generally it's best to get out to a safe distance, get a cloaky, then slowboat an even greater distance out. No kidding, set course and do grocery shopping, go to sleep, etc. Get a really, really distant bookmark.
Then never use that particular bookmark as an undock (without a cloaky). What you do, is undock-warp to it several times in a cloaky, dropping a random spot bookmark each time during the warp. Use those for a while, the delete them, and create new ones in that same fashion. That way, you're always changing them up with a minimum amount of maintenance.
Quick story...there was a time long ago I was doing SOE level 3 security missions. I undock one day, click to warp to mission, and instantly go to warp. The mission site just so happened to be exactly on the undock line. How far out? 50 AU. I had a 50 AU insta-undock for that station. I eventually deleted it because let's face it, a random level 3 sec station isn't something you'll need often enough to make such a bookmark a forever keepsake. But yeah, it was pretty cool.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Netan MalDoran
Planet Squanch
278
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Posted - 2017.04.09 04:00:18 -
[22] - Quote
Im a criminal everywhere Soooo moving around highsec almost never happens, but I do have insta undocks on the tradehubs, once i was sprinting out of Dodixie in an inty and i heard them lock me, but they didnt get to pin me down and I lived.
Jita is a whole different story, tried the same thing in a shuttle, got blown and podded in 1 tick .-.
I have also done this a few times in lowsec with aggro and have survived every time
TLDR: They're like condoms, 98% effective if you use them correctly but that 2% can be painful
"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!
Falcon's truth
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8319
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Posted - 2017.04.09 06:46:40 -
[23] - Quote
That explains the autistic screeching I hear every time somebody suggests that stations should rotate and/or orbit the planet it's anchored on.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Razorback Roadhouse
103
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Posted - 2017.04.09 08:04:33 -
[24] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:The Larold wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:... expensive ship (like a Garmur rigged for burner missions) ...
... you got ganked at Lanngisi? ...
This is 100% what happened, down to the ship type, station, and what I was doing. :) Yeah, I figured. Lanngisi is a ganker's paradise because so many burner pilots fly out of there with blingy ships. You frequently see them hanging out on the station. They're not hard to avoid with undocks. There's enough low hanging fruit there that as long you make it marginally difficult, they won't bother to probe you down.
Do they camp the stargates in the adjacent systems? |
ColdCutz
Frigonometry
139
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Posted - 2017.04.09 11:46:55 -
[25] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:That explains the autistic screeching I hear every time somebody suggests that stations should rotate and/or orbit the planet it's anchored on. Yeah, basic orbital mechanics is a non-starter in the context of bookmarks. |
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