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manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.11 23:45:56 -
[1] - Quote
What is local supposed to be? It seems like its some sort of combination between a tool to gather intel and a simple chat. What if local was changed into a chat for the whole region? It will make the chat come much more alive. Possible downside is problems with spam, particularly in The Forge, where they spam contracts etc. constantly. Thats not to say there are not solutions for that. Either players are going to make a Jita Trade chat. Or the most persistent spammers will be ignored by others.
The reason i like this idea is particularly because the chat would come more alive. This would be a big benefit to the game, especially for new players who will be attracted to an active chat. They will appreciate the energy associated with it, and it will make them more attracted to the game. It also solves the problem of chatting while jumping. The downside is that people who use Local as an intel gathering tool will lose this mechanic, unless local is kept as a separate chat. But that kind of defeats the purpose and having two default chats on top of corp violates the KISS principle which im a big fan of.
So what will happen if local is completely disabled well in some aspects the game will become more risky. But in other aspects it will become more safe. Do i really need to go into this?
Anyway it seems that there is a problem in EVE online in that the chats are very dead. And dead chats are not good for any kind of service that exists today. Be it game, or livestream or what have you. An active chat adds more to the experience that you will think. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1728
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 00:19:23 -
[2] - Quote
No ----> w-space
Shut up!
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
|
Krysenth
Saints Of Havoc Rate My Ticks
9
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 00:57:14 -
[3] - Quote
manus wrote:What is local supposed to be? It seems like its some sort of combination between a tool to gather intel and a simple chat. What if local was changed into a chat for the whole region? It will make the chat come much more alive. Possible downside is problems with spam, particularly in The Forge, where they spam contracts etc. constantly. Thats not to say there are not solutions for that. Either players are going to make a Jita Trade chat. Or the most persistent spammers will be ignored by others.
The reason i like this idea is particularly because the chat would come more alive. This would be a big benefit to the game, especially for new players who will be attracted to an active chat. They will appreciate the energy associated with it, and it will make them more attracted to the game. It also solves the problem of chatting while jumping. The downside is that people who use Local as an intel gathering tool will lose this mechanic, unless local is kept as a separate chat. But that kind of defeats the purpose and having two default chats on top of corp violates the KISS principle which im a big fan of.
So what will happen if local is completely disabled well in some aspects the game will become more risky. But in other aspects it will become more safe. Do i really need to go into this?
Anyway it seems that there is a problem in EVE online in that the chats are very dead. And dead chats are not good for any kind of service that exists today. Be it game, or livestream or what have you. An active chat adds more to the experience that you will think. you know there IS a regional system channel already, right?
edit- hell, one for constellation too
edit2- those channels are often unused primarily because a single alliance, or friendly groups of alliances, DONT control the entire region, and anyone who enters the region can join the channel as well. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3946
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 01:33:57 -
[4] - Quote
Constellation would be a better replacement for Local in K space.
And @Krysenth, yes there is one, but it could be the default channel and local removed, or all local could operate like WH Local, but K space you get a constellation chat as well which displays everyone as a default 'always up' option.
This then removes the perfect free intel of a cloaky camper, while still providing some intel as to who is in your immediate vicinity. Some intel is good, it lets you know if there are people around to pick fights, exact intel is bad because it makes it too easy to hunt or run. So we want intel to become a grey area where it's somewhat known but not exact for an ideal situation. |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 01:47:59 -
[5] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:No ----> w-space
Shut up!
You shut up. And read the post before you reply. This idea is about consolidating the default chat channels to give them more life, and you start blabbering about wspace. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
261
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 01:52:13 -
[6] - Quote
Krysenth wrote:manus wrote:What is local supposed to be? It seems like its some sort of combination between a tool to gather intel and a simple chat. What if local was changed into a chat for the whole region? It will make the chat come much more alive. Possible downside is problems with spam, particularly in The Forge, where they spam contracts etc. constantly. Thats not to say there are not solutions for that. Either players are going to make a Jita Trade chat. Or the most persistent spammers will be ignored by others.
The reason i like this idea is particularly because the chat would come more alive. This would be a big benefit to the game, especially for new players who will be attracted to an active chat. They will appreciate the energy associated with it, and it will make them more attracted to the game. It also solves the problem of chatting while jumping. The downside is that people who use Local as an intel gathering tool will lose this mechanic, unless local is kept as a separate chat. But that kind of defeats the purpose and having two default chats on top of corp violates the KISS principle which im a big fan of.
So what will happen if local is completely disabled well in some aspects the game will become more risky. But in other aspects it will become more safe. Do i really need to go into this?
Anyway it seems that there is a problem in EVE online in that the chats are very dead. And dead chats are not good for any kind of service that exists today. Be it game, or livestream or what have you. An active chat adds more to the experience that you will think. you know there IS a regional system channel already, right? edit- hell, one for constellation too edit2- those channels are often unused primarily because a single alliance, or friendly groups of alliances, DONT control the entire region, and anyone who enters the region can join the channel as well. And they don't show people unless they say something so it's like they're always empty anyway and can't be used as early warning of people coming into constellation or region.
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mkint
1713
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 01:54:23 -
[7] - Quote
I'd make the proposal simpler. Stay away from the mess of "remove/keep local free intel grrr." Keep local. Whatever. Make the region channel (which exists already) open by default. That's all. It's already recent speakers only, it's not an intel tool. They'd have to fix it so it doesn't keep closing itself on every session change. Maybe make it easier to join back into it if you do close it, but mostly just change the default settings (maybe make the default blink setting on it set to 'off' as well) to make it more available.
I like region chat. It's like sitting in a dark room and talking to someone who's not there. It gets eerie.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 01:55:40 -
[8] - Quote
mkint wrote:I'd make the proposal simpler. Stay away from the mess of "remove/keep local free intel grrr." Keep local. Whatever. Make the region channel (which exists already) open by default. That's all. It's already recent speakers only, it's not an intel tool. They'd have to fix it so it doesn't keep closing itself on every session change. Maybe make it easier to join back into it if you do close it, but mostly just change the default settings (maybe make the default blink setting on it set to 'off' as well) to make it more available.
I like region chat. It's like sitting in a dark room and talking to someone who's not there. It gets eerie.
This isnt simpler as you would have an additional chat open all of a sudden. And what happens if you speak in local? does that chat go to region? And what happens if you speak in region? does that chat go to local? etc |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
303
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 02:29:31 -
[9] - Quote
manus wrote:mkint wrote:I'd make the proposal simpler. Stay away from the mess of "remove/keep local free intel grrr." Keep local. Whatever. Make the region channel (which exists already) open by default. That's all. It's already recent speakers only, it's not an intel tool. They'd have to fix it so it doesn't keep closing itself on every session change. Maybe make it easier to join back into it if you do close it, but mostly just change the default settings (maybe make the default blink setting on it set to 'off' as well) to make it more available.
I like region chat. It's like sitting in a dark room and talking to someone who's not there. It gets eerie. This isnt simpler as you would have an additional chat open all of a sudden. And what happens if you speak in local? does that chat go to region? And what happens if you speak in region? does that chat go to local? etc Keep it simple
1.) it would not be an additional chat, because it already exists for use. 2.) If you speak in local (system) chat no it does not transfer to Constellation or Region chats. 3.) If you speak in Constellation or Region they do not transfer(copy) to local (system) chat.
So basically please learn to EvE........
STFU and quit shiptoasting the forums. |
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
264
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 03:10:13 -
[10] - Quote
what even is this proposal, are you high? |
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mkint
1713
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 04:07:32 -
[11] - Quote
manus wrote:mkint wrote:I'd make the proposal simpler. Stay away from the mess of "remove/keep local free intel grrr." Keep local. Whatever. Make the region channel (which exists already) open by default. That's all. It's already recent speakers only, it's not an intel tool. They'd have to fix it so it doesn't keep closing itself on every session change. Maybe make it easier to join back into it if you do close it, but mostly just change the default settings (maybe make the default blink setting on it set to 'off' as well) to make it more available.
I like region chat. It's like sitting in a dark room and talking to someone who's not there. It gets eerie. This isnt simpler as you would have an additional chat open all of a sudden. And what happens if you speak in local? does that chat go to region? And what happens if you speak in region? does that chat go to local? etc Keep it simple The channel already exists. Try opening it.
Because you've got some comprehension fail, let me be clear:
Your idea is not novel. It's not new, it's not unique. Whether or not it's a good idea or a bad idea is somewhat controversial. You will make absolutely zero progress on it. That is a guarantee. However, if your claim of it being about fun rather than intel isn't an outright lie, then your idea becomes outright bad. It's bad because it fecklessly wanders into controversial territory with zero self awareness. To turn your bad idea into a good (viz workable) idea, basically your only option is to get people to join the existing regional chat.
Spend some time in Region so you can actually have some understanding of why nobody uses it. Then (assuming you weren't lying in your assertion that your proposal was about conversation) you can come back with some ideas that have a greater than 0% chance of implementation.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 04:36:50 -
[12] - Quote
Who here hasn't pined for Jita local chat to follow you throughout The Forge?
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manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 11:31:25 -
[13] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote: 1.) it would not be an additional chat, because it already exists for use.
hahaha. you cant be serious. So now you will have Local, Region, and Corp chat open. Thats one additional chat. You cant count it seems.
Max Deveron wrote:2.) If you speak in local (system) chat no it does not transfer to Constellation or Region chats.
The idea is to replace Local with Region. And someone says why not keep both herp. In that scenario, what happens? The idea falls the ground if you just add anoter chat window. The idea is to consolidate the chat and liven it up. You dont accomplish this by half-assedly adding region chat next to local chat. Keep it simple. One chat to rule them all.
Max Deveron wrote: STFU and quit shiptoasting the forums.
How about you take your own advice? You are contributing nothing interesting and you dont even understand the idea. So why are you here? |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 11:42:24 -
[14] - Quote
mkint wrote: The channel already exists. Try opening it. .
I did, its emptier than wormspace local. And for the record, since there are no defined regions in wormspace, keep the chat as is. There will only be local chat when you are in wormspace.
mkint wrote:Because you've got some comprehension fail, let me be clear:
I think you have comprehension fail. Because
Quote:Your idea is not novel. It's not new, it's not unique. Whether or not it's a good idea or a bad idea is somewhat controversial. You will make absolutely zero progress on it. That is a guarantee.
I may or may not get anywhere with it, but thats besides the point. We can still discuss it.
Quote: To turn your bad idea into a good (viz workable) idea, basically your only option is to get people to join the existing regional chat.
No, this is how the idea fails. It will only succeed if local is replaced with regional chat.
Quote:Spend some time in Region so you can actually have some understanding of why nobody uses it.
It doesent take a genious to figure out why. Its because
1) The channel is hidden 2) Its optional
I hope you are able to comprehend how much more activity it would get if local was replacted with region as the default chat.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2546
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 12:06:13 -
[15] - Quote
I think dropping local and making regional/constellation chat work like local is an excellent idea. Here is what I think that would do.
For players at the keyboard actively playing the game. 1. They could monitor regional/constellation chat watching the numbers rise and fall. 2. They could make informed decisions as to their course of action on a chat channel spike or change.
a. keep mining, ratting or whatever you are doing b. dock up because bad doo doo is coming c. form a defense fleet / set a trap for hostiles that have entered your region/constellation. (wait what? consensual pvp???)
For players botting and lazy players. Bot would become ineffective. You could program your bot fleet to continue to dock when a baddie enters regional/constellation chat, but you'd be docking a lot more frequently and many times when no threat exists. Lazy folks would get used to having baddies in the larger chat area, become numb to them and then die horribly to ganks and such.
Good attentive players are rewarded and bad (botting and lazy) players are punished. I'm not really seeing a down side to this. You don't lose intel, you just take the intel value away from bots. This is one of those simple and elegant fixes that does a lot of good and no real harm (to active attentive players).
Well done OP.
(the least you will get out of this is the joy of watching those terrified by the prospect of losing their intel crutch as they franticly denounce your idea with counter arguments of little to no substance) |
Yorrick Kayne
Kosmische Kollegen
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 12:06:51 -
[16] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote:Who here hasn't pined for Jita local chat to follow you throughout The Forge?
You can do that? I am always afraid I might miss out one of those "Gecko for one Million" deals.
|
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2546
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 12:21:22 -
[17] - Quote
Ageanal Olerie wrote:Who here hasn't pined for Jita local chat to follow you throughout The Forge?
Fair point - Jita has it's own server, so it could get it's on chat channel as well. I'd be OK if this mechanic was only limited to null - kind of like bubbles are limited to null. Having this in HS would be a huge boon to player farmers as they could more quickly search regions for helpless players to wonk up on. Much of HS is so densely populated that it would quite possibly harm gameplay in that part of space.
|
Charley Varrick
State War Academy Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 13:22:32 -
[18] - Quote
As soon as you utter a word in a populated system people aren't thinking "oh look...someone to talk to!" Instead, they are looking up your corp history, checking your kills...trying to determine weather or not they want to come pop you. I'm just say'n.... |
mkint
1713
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 13:28:20 -
[19] - Quote
manus wrote:mkint wrote: The channel already exists. Try opening it. . I did, its emptier than wormspace local. Quote:Your idea is not novel. It's not new, it's not unique. Whether or not it's a good idea or a bad idea is somewhat controversial. You will make absolutely zero progress on it. That is a guarantee. I may or may not get anywhere with it, but thats besides the point. We can still discuss it. It's been discussed. It's an old, tired idea. It's stopped being an interesting idea because of all the baggage and ulterior motives people always bring to the discussion.
Speaking of which, I'm still convinced you're lying about this being all about the conversation and not about the intel. I'm convinced of this because you haven't actually tried to make your bad idea better.
Or, maybe you're a kid and this is your first "big idea." In which case, let me tell you something. Ideas are cheap. Most ideas are worthless. A big part of growing up is gaining the experience to make the mental connections to formulate ideas that are worthwhile. By that time, most adults will have had thousands of ideas and realize that even most of their own ideas are not sacred; they can just be thrown out if bad or reworked if flawed.
You are putting all your effort into defending your idea. That tells me this discussion is DOA. The idea isn't good enough to defend itself, and you're not putting in the mental effort to come up with a good idea. So, take the feedback, throw out your original idea, come up with something new that doesn't need defending.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3298
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 13:29:06 -
[20] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Ageanal Olerie wrote:Who here hasn't pined for Jita local chat to follow you throughout The Forge? Fair point - Jita has it's own server, so it could get it's on chat channel as well. I'd be OK if this mechanic was only limited to null - kind of like bubbles are limited to null. Having this in HS would be a huge boon to player farmers as they could more quickly search regions for helpless players to wonk up on. Much of HS is so densely populated that it would quite possibly harm gameplay in that part of space.
Jita only has it's own server because it has to be reinforced and that does not separate it from it's constellation/region. Some null region/constellation probably sport number as high if not higher than some HS ones so your perceived problem is there too. |
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Hello Meow Kitty
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
25
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 13:34:12 -
[21] - Quote
Maybe local should be constellation or something slightly bigger than current system. Also they need to change how players show up in local currently. Alphabetically is so OP lol |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 13:42:15 -
[22] - Quote
Hello Meow Kitty wrote:Maybe local should be constellation or something slightly bigger than current system. Also they need to change how players show up in local currently. Alphabetically is so OP lol
I like your point regarding alphabetical order on local. It does seem unbalanced.
But i dont think consolidating the local chats into constellations are enough. I think it makes more sense to have regional chats instead. I think people are more attached to their regions anyway, the names are easier to remember since there are fewer. It alo ties in well with how the market browser works, which is also limited to region. |
Cade Windstalker
1294
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 14:02:29 -
[23] - Quote
Lets see, just off the topic of my head this doesn't work:
- In Wormhole Space
- In any remotely populated area of the game, especially High Sec.
- Anywhere that might have multiple fights/significant interactions going on in different systems, the cross-talk would quickly get ridiculous
This is pretty clearly just another "remove local" thread trying to disguise itself as a compromise position.
CCP have already expressed a dislike of the intel side of local, but they've also been pretty clear that they want to replace it with other mechanics rather than remove it entirely.
If you want to talk to someone across system jumps that's what private convos are for. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
656
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 14:38:10 -
[24] - Quote
manus wrote:What is local supposed to be? It seems like its some sort of combination between a tool to gather intel and a simple chat. What if local was changed into a chat for the whole region? It will make the chat come much more alive. Possible downside is problems with spam, particularly in The Forge, where they spam contracts etc. constantly. Thats not to say there are not solutions for that. Either players are going to make a Jita Trade chat. Or the most persistent spammers will be ignored by others.
The reason i like this idea is particularly because the chat would come more alive. This would be a big benefit to the game, especially for new players who will be attracted to an active chat. It also solves the problem of chatting while jumping. The downside is that people who use Local as an intel gathering tool will lose this mechanic, unless local is kept as a separate chat. But that kind of defeats the purpose and having two default chats on top of corp violates the KISS principle which im a big fan of.
So what will happen if local is completely disabled well in some aspects the game will become more risky. But in other aspects it will become more safe. Do i really need to go into this?
Anyway it seems that there is a problem in EVE online in that the chats are very dead. And dead chats are not good for any kind of service that exists today. Be it game, or livestream or what have you. An active chat adds more to the experience that you will think.
NO! |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 16:14:22 -
[25] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Lets see, just off the topic of my head this doesn't work:
In Wormhole Space
Afaik there are no defined regions in wormspace so nothing would change. There would just be a lone desolate chat channel for each hole.
Quote:In any remotely populated area of the game, especially High Sec.
I dont see why it wouldnt. Besides if there was a need for a more quiet space/chatroom, players would create it.
Quote:Anywhere that might have multiple fights/significant interactions going on in different systems, the cross-talk would quickly get ridiculous
Is there any demand for this? As long as you know the person you intend to chat to is in the room, i think thats the most important thing. Each individual system doesent have to have its own chat. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1729
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 16:37:26 -
[26] - Quote
manus wrote:...Is there any demand for this? As long as you know the person you intend to chat to is in the room, i think thats the most important thing. Each individual system doesent have to have its own chat.
Why?
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
|
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 16:59:28 -
[27] - Quote
What do you mean why? It would be better to ask why each system needs its own chat channel |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
3002
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 17:08:04 -
[28] - Quote
Why ask? A system is a system, the lowest degree of separation in the cluster without creating ridiculous fragmentation. Furthermore, each system has people in them who are only in this system and not some other place, which means they can expect a locally limited communications room. It's not that hard to grasp.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
|
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 17:09:03 -
[29] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Why ask? A system is a system, the lowest degree of separation in the cluster without creating ridiculous fragmentation. Furthermore, each system has people in them who are only in this system and not some other place, which means they can expect a locally limited communications room. It's not that hard to grasp.
So your argument is "Just because"
Truth of the matter is these players will still be able to chat with each other if local was changed to region. And if they really needed a private chat room they would just create one. |
Old Pervert
Perkone Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 17:20:36 -
[30] - Quote
Is the OP just lonely and looking for someone to talk to? If so... join a corp. The less sperg I end up seeing the better. |
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manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 17:54:33 -
[31] - Quote
Meh, thats an arrogant way to look at things. If there is an oppertunity to create a better in-game chat i think it should be seized. |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3873
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 18:45:54 -
[32] - Quote
The only idea from you ive liked.
Nuke local, make it regional. No one shows up till they chat. \o/ Speaking of contracts, its like it was meant to be. What's the range of a public contract?
Don't want pilot's names in d-scan though. What i might swap in instead is d-scan getting a similar visual to the system map with ships appearing on the map with a deviation. The deviation gets smaller the shorter the range and more narrow the scan.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 18:58:23 -
[33] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:The only idea from you ive liked.
Nuke local, make it regional. No one shows up till they chat. \o/ Speaking of contracts, its like it was meant to be. What's the range of a public contract?
Don't want pilot's names in d-scan though. What i might swap in instead is d-scan getting a similar visual to the system map with ships appearing on the map with a deviation. The deviation gets smaller the shorter the range and more narrow the scan.
Thank you. Means alot. I dont like the player list in directional scan either. I like your way better. |
Cade Windstalker
1300
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 18:58:32 -
[34] - Quote
manus wrote:
Afaik there are no defined regions in wormspace so nothing would change. There would just be a lone desolate chat channel for each hole.
There are, actually. In the back-end code Wormhole space still has Constelation and Regions just like regular space. There's even a list of them over here on this wiki page.
manus wrote:I dont see why it wouldnt. Besides if there was a need for a more quiet space/chatroom, players would create it.
Your stated objective here is to allow chatting. This would mean that any region with a remotely populated trade-hub now gets spammed with all the random adverts from that trade hub. What you would effectively create is a vehicle for trade-hub spam to reach the widest possible audience and nothing more.
You wouldn't even be able to use it for the things Local actually gets used for today because of cross-talk from other systems.
manus wrote:Is there any demand for this? As long as you know the person you intend to chat to is in the room, i think thats the most important thing. Each individual system doesent have to have its own chat.
Your own suggestion seems to suppose that there is, since you're trying to play up the benefits this would have beyond just "remove local!" To quote your own post:
manus wrote:The reason i like this idea is particularly because the chat would come more alive.
...
Anyway it seems that there is a problem in EVE online in that the chats are very dead. And dead chats are not good for any kind of service that exists today. Be it game, or livestream or what have you. An active chat adds more to the experience that you will think.
My point, in case it wasn't clear, is that these channels would be basically unusable in 90% of the game. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
510
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:01:06 -
[35] - Quote
oh look, another stealth "nerf local" thread. the only thing interesting about this is how completely uninspired and dull the "solution" is. |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 19:04:47 -
[36] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:oh look, another stealth "nerf local" thread. the only thing interesting about this is how completely uninspired and dull the "solution" is.
Wut? Replacing local with region seems like a fantastic idea. Particularly because the chat comes much more alive. Anyone in the same region will be able to casually chat with each other. |
elitatwo
Dicker Quick and Hyde Defense Attorneys O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1729
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 20:48:16 -
[37] - Quote
manus wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:oh look, another stealth "nerf local" thread. the only thing interesting about this is how completely uninspired and dull the "solution" is. Wut? Replacing local with region seems like a fantastic idea. Particularly because the chat comes much more alive. Anyone in the same region will be able to casually chat with each other.
You didn't get the memo. Nobody but you thinks this is a good idea.
Eve Minions is recruiting.
This is the law of ship progression!
Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
511
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 21:02:25 -
[38] - Quote
manus wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:oh look, another stealth "nerf local" thread. the only thing interesting about this is how completely uninspired and dull the "solution" is. Wut? Replacing local with region seems like a fantastic idea. Particularly because the chat comes much more alive. Anyone in the same region will be able to casually chat with each other.
except that people rarely if EVER actually chat in local, and when it does happen its generally because of an interaction that happens in space... locally. if people are going to leave system and want to keep chatting they will just start up a private convo. hell most people (myself included) don't even have their local chat visible. all I can see is the list of names for intel purposes and the rest is hidden.
Now since I spend a lot of time in WH's I'm not 100% against the idea of removing or changing the use of local for intel. but if this is going to be a "nerf local" thread, at least be honest enough to admit to it rather than trying to bury the lead. its not fooling anyone (especially with how many times you have mentioned "don't show up until you say something") |
mkint
1715
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 22:56:53 -
[39] - Quote
manus wrote:PS. Reddit thread for reference with a stunning 132 comments at this time of writing. 132 comments, and every single one absolutely hates the idea (to the point of the OP being deleted.)
Do you believe me yet that the idea is broken? Most ideas in general are bad. You shouldn't feel bad about coming up with a bad idea. The problem now is that you've long passed the point where a grown up would say "oh, I guess my priorities and the priorities of the majority aren't in line. Maybe I should come up with a different idea that could still achieve the objectives without the downside."
There's another factor to your bad idea: cost. First, there would be a cost to implement that would need enough benefit to be worth it, which even with a ridiculously optimistic view would still not be there. Second there is a cost of lost revenue from people who rely on the reasonable assumption that core mechanics stay basically the same. If CCP implemented your bad idea, they'd deserve the subsequent TCU crash, and the associated loss in revenue. They'd have to be far stupider than they are to do your bad idea, and not stupid at game design but stupid at business.
Your chances of success with this idea are still 0%. Your objective is reasonable, your solution is not. Come up with a new one.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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Tessa Sage
Legion of the Wicked Way Advent of Fate
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 23:12:22 -
[40] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I think dropping local and making regional/constellation chat work like local is an excellent idea. ... Well done OP.
(the least you will get out of this is the joy of watching those terrified by the prospect of losing their intel crutch
More importantly: a) Effective marketing does not convey information to one room, but rather, like a PA system, entire concourses of clientele. b) What is the radius of ISK waiting to be exchanged for items? One could argue it is jump freighters of distance, not mere shuttle hops.
If we really want to give Local channel its fair due, time to merge it with respect to systems in the same constellation... Specifically, Local chat channel should get merged with Constellation while further utilizing Regional passively as a urgent message drop facilitator; "top level" pings from NPC phenomena and CSM / game moderators can simultaneously appear in Constellation when posted in Regional. The in game mechanics already suggest a broader application toward inter-stargate activity not just any one system, whether reacting to market orders, running courier contracts or in search of PVP.
Regrettably, inbound Local is always last to know what previous stargates saw; and in pilot prioritization, tasking your ship to get off grid if you're not fit for the imminent PVP only delays the pings to Intel; a caterpillar effect that a constellation-scaled thread could otherwise avoid.
If the same revised chat channel becomes a tool for chase, then the argument then extends to have sovereignty dictate who can join the discussion: standings and whether you are entering the market / mayhem to provide suitable firepower. For instance, someone in bad standing with station owners can't dock to fulfill a market purchase. Someone in bad standing with SOV holders of a particular constellation should not be able to see that channel's activity. All they will see will be the auto-generated warning and the flash of gate guns or agro of Constellation friendlies. This implies that Constellation chat is effectively standings based, invite only, and not only replaces Local, but replaces Fleet.
Some other musings: Regional channel for players should be "listen only" with the exception of market-relevant discussion. To be sure, an in-game ISK fee associated with any user generated talk, much like contracts already have a minimum 10,000 ISK fee to publish. That could be the benchmark surcharge for a string of text to appear in Regional. Newly created contracts could have a grace period in Regional where the entity can field questions from players about the contract terms. Again, effective marketing and toss range of ISK.
Lastly, a suggestion: jump into a system and press 'D', it pings on Regional with your ship's position. The ping, however, is picked up by the last gate you jumped through - or the nearest gate in your warp - and posts in Constellation as such: "Player _______ is actively scanning from _____ system gate proximity." Only covert ops fitted ships would avoid this tattle effect.
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manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 23:28:09 -
[41] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:manus wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:oh look, another stealth "nerf local" thread. the only thing interesting about this is how completely uninspired and dull the "solution" is. Wut? Replacing local with region seems like a fantastic idea. Particularly because the chat comes much more alive. Anyone in the same region will be able to casually chat with each other. You didn't get the memo. Nobody but you thinks this is a good idea.
Thats a lie. Open your eyes. |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 23:33:47 -
[42] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
except that people rarely if EVER actually chat in local, and when it does happen its generally because of an interaction that happens in space... locally.
This is because of the way the chat is designed. How can it work any different when you change channel every time you jump? Of course local will not be used to chat then, whats the point.
If we got regional chat instead, you will see the chat come alive because it becomes much more persistent.
Bjorn Tyrson wrote: if people are going to leave system and want to keep chatting they will just start up a private convo.
Yes let me start up a convo with a stranger, thats not creepy or annoying at all. We need an actual public chat.
Bjorn Tyrson wrote: hell most people (myself included) don't even have their local chat visible. all I can see is the list of names for intel purposes and the rest is hidden.
Have you thought about why that is? Because nobody uses local to chat, because its useless for it in most cases. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
311
|
Posted - 2017.04.12 23:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
manus wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
except that people rarely if EVER actually chat in local, and when it does happen its generally because of an interaction that happens in space... locally.
This is because of the way the chat is designed. How can it work any different when you change channel every time you jump? Of course local will not be used to chat then, whats the point. If we got regional chat instead, you will see the chat come alive because it becomes much more persistent. Bjorn Tyrson wrote: if people are going to leave system and want to keep chatting they will just start up a private convo.
Yes let me start up a convo with a stranger, thats not creepy or annoying at all. We need an actual public chat. Bjorn Tyrson wrote: hell most people (myself included) don't even have their local chat visible. all I can see is the list of names for intel purposes and the rest is hidden.
Have you thought about why that is? Because nobody uses local to chat, because its useless for it in most cases.
Ok im going to just quote everything here in this post...........
1.) OP you are a moron and just plain stupid. 2.) 99% of the time outside of trade hubs public chats are just not used because we have corp/alliance/private chats to use, that is why they are not utilized . 3.) You really really really need to shut up now, because your lack of IQ is showing. |
Cade Windstalker
1300
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 00:30:23 -
[44] - Quote
manus wrote:This is because of the way the chat is designed. How can it work any different when you change channel every time you jump? Of course local will not be used to chat then, whats the point.
If we got regional chat instead, you will see the chat come alive because it becomes much more persistent.
This is an basically completely unsupported claim. You say this would make the chat more used, but anywhere near any sort of populated system it would be almost unusable due to spam, advertising, ect. Local already has uses, but random chatter is not one of them. Most players have either Corp, Alliance, or any of the game's many informal group chat channels for this, you're trying to fill a niche that's already filled and destroying another in the process.
manus wrote:Yes let me start up a convo with a stranger, thats not creepy or annoying at all. We need an actual public chat.
These already exist, there are plenty of them listed in your channels list in-game. The difference here is that participation in these is entirely voluntary, though even for newbies there are NPC corp channels.
manus wrote:Have you thought about why that is? Because nobody uses local to chat, because its useless for it in most cases.
Yup, as opposed to your idea which would be even more useless for 90% of players by containing either far too many people (High Sec and populated areas of Null) or no one worth talking to (The few less populous regions of Low and Null).
Like, have you seen Jita or Amarr local? Or even Rens? You're baiscally saying that you want that to be the experience for everyone in about 100 other systems as well per trade-hub. |
Tessa Sage
Legion of the Wicked Way Advent of Fate
0
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 03:23:38 -
[45] - Quote
manus wrote: If we got regional chat instead, you will see the chat come alive because it becomes much more persistent.
Persistence pays off. I see the game functioning worlds better for all concerned, if we don't have isolated discussions in what is otherwise a general chit chat resource. This does not detract: User-created channels will still allow private or more topic-centric chatter.
manus wrote:Yes let me start up a convo with a stranger, thats not creepy or annoying at all. We need an actual public chat. Your sarcasm is noted, the # of convos started and halted due to local clipping is tragic.
Bjorn Tyrson wrote: hell most people (myself included) don't even have their local chat visible. all I can see is the list of names for intel purposes and the rest is hidden.
Yes, with my game I never have local taking up more than the minimum possible column width and even that is too much. Regional, Constellational and Dscan / Probe Launcher is adequate for navigation, intel and updates.
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Erica Dusette
Division 13
57829
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 04:24:21 -
[46] - Quote
manus wrote:What is local supposed to be? It seems like its some sort of combination between a tool to gather intel and a simple chat. What if local was changed into a chat for the whole region? It will make the chat come much more alive. Possible downside is problems with spam, particularly in The Forge, where they spam contracts etc. constantly. Thats not to say there are not solutions for that. Either players are going to make a Jita Trade chat. Or the most persistent spammers will be ignored by others. Devs could also intervene by putting a stricter timer on how often you can link the same contracts.
The reason i like this idea is particularly because the chat would come more alive. I kinda disagree, I don't think it's a simple matter of bringing more people together = a livelier chat. At least not in EVE.
Evidence for that is all around. Take a look at some of the more populated channels - wormholes, mining, etc - they're usually pretty silent with the occasional bit of genuine chat, but more often than not just goofiness or trolling when they're active.Trade hubs for instance have hundreds, sometimes thousands of people and their local chat is pure cancer most of the time, nothing but sales, scams and some spam. Good luck trying to have a proper chat.
Me myself I'm a bit of a social butterfly, and a roleplayer. My characters very often start chatting in local whenever we pop out of wormhole space. Regardless if there's 1 person or sometimes 30 I'll say hi and try to start up some conversation. I'd say a good 75% of the time I go ignored, everyone stays silent, and maybe only 5% of the time a decent conversation actually results from talking in local.
People don't want to talk ... in most channels in EVE. Regardless of the amount of population in the channel, the lack of liveliness is a by-product of the game itself, it's environment and atmosphere and no amount of change to the chat structure will alter that. Nobody knows who is who, why they are there, is it a scam, are they some weirdo, is it a trap?
The only exception I find is populated channels of a common interest. Corp public channels, regional channels (like evedownunder for Aussies), event channels, etc. Everyone in those channels is there for a common reason and interest, so they tend to be quite lively.
Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!
Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel
Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò Gû+ -¦-âss
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Thursday Park-Laine
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
65
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 12:59:58 -
[47] - Quote
manus wrote: Have you thought about why that is? Because nobody uses local to chat, because its useless for it in most cases.
That is the point you don't seem to get: Yes, we did think about that. We all know that local chat is "Intel only" outside of trade hub spam. It is not that you are the first one to notice that. But no-one but some lone corp-less lone wolf bother because we already use chats for Fleet, SIG, Alliance, Intel, Diplo and whatever. And of top a voice server on corp level for smalltalk and an allicance voice server for CTAs.
You could make local a LOTTERY giving out millions of ISK and I wouldn't bother because the last thing I need is one more chat window with some random trespassers in it. Make your own GÇ£lone haulers need someone to talk toGÇ¥ chat and have a look if someone wants to talk to you. Or join a good corp and never ever feel the need of one more chat window again. But leave local alone, most of us like it just the way it is. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2546
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 14:32:39 -
[48] - Quote
Bots need local - it must stay. Mining bot fleets won't know when to warp back to the citadel to avoid interaction with actively playing players. Carrier ratting bots won't be as efficient.
LOCAL MUST STAY - think of the bots |
Professor Sternu Tarantoga
The Futurological Congress
89
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 15:24:21 -
[49] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Bots need local - it must stay. Mining bot fleets won't know when to warp back to the citadel to avoid interaction with actively playing players. Carrier ratting bots won't be as efficient.
LOCAL MUST STAY - think of the bots Now: Neut/red enters local and the bots warp to a save POS. After the "fix": Neut/red enters constellation and bots warp to save POS. While it is hard, but not impossible to get them now it would be totally impossible with a few systems of advance notice. It would be worse, not better. |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3874
|
Posted - 2017.04.13 15:49:10 -
[50] - Quote
They wont appear in constellation or regional. Like they don't now.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 01:49:51 -
[51] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:"If we got regional chat instead, you will see the chat come alive because it becomes much more persistent."
This is an basically completely unsupported claim..
Only an ignorant person would believe this wouldnt be the case.
Cade Windstalker wrote: "Yes let me start up a convo with a stranger, thats not creepy or annoying at all. We need an actual public chat."
These already exist, there are plenty of them listed in your channels list in-game. The difference here is that participation in these is entirely voluntary
It is also voluntary if you want to participate in local chat. And it will also be voluntary if you want to participate if local chat was replaced with regional chat. But if you are so scared of socialising, there could be a setting to mute the chat.
Cade Windstalker wrote: "Have you thought about why that is? Because nobody uses local to chat, because its useless for it in most cases. have you seen Jita or Amarr local? Or even Rens?"
Yes i have, and its not that bad. If you are concerned its a problem, there can be a restriction to link contracts. A timer. Maybe people would form actual trade chats then.
|
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
312
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 07:14:32 -
[52] - Quote
manus wrote:"If we got regional chat instead, you will see the chat come alive because it becomes much more persistent."
Only an ignorant person would believe this wouldnt be the case.
It is you manus that is ignorant, the chat will not become more alive just more cluttered with spam, people use set chat channels all the time or their respective npc corp channels, not public.
manus wrote:"Yes let me start up a convo with a stranger, thats not creepy or annoying at all. We need an actual public chat."
It is also voluntary if you want to participate in local chat. And it will also be voluntary if you want to participate if local chat was replaced with regional chat. But if you are so scared of socialising, there could be a setting to mute the chat.
Nobody is scared of socializing you blooming idiot, but I for one would despise having to listen to Jita no matter where I am at in the forge, get a clue nooblet.
Cade Windstalker wrote: "Have you thought about why that is? Because nobody uses local to chat, because its useless for it in most cases. have you seen Jita or Amarr local? Or even Rens?"
manus wrote:Yes i have, and its not that bad. If you are concerned its a problem, there can be a restriction to link contracts. A timer. Maybe people would form actual trade chats then.
Trade Channels already exsist, we do not World of Warcraft bull crap in EvE, please shut your hole.
manus wrote:Quick idea. What if there was a regional trade chat. Everyone participates by default but it can be disabled if you want. This chat will be for spamming contracts etc. In the general chat it will cost money to link. (This is to not restrict players from communicating contracts, but at the same time prevent people from spamming. in trade chat there will be less restrictions - for example only on very obvious spam perhaps)
NO, its not needed, and so the Devs should not spend wasted time on it. |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 09:36:19 -
[53] - Quote
Heres a quick example of how players can interact with each other. For example by linking the system they are in, and saying what they are doing. It could also be someone asking for help, you get the idea.
Region chat |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
313
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 09:55:56 -
[54] - Quote
manus wrote:Heres a quick example of how players can interact with each other. For example by linking the system they are in, and saying what they are doing. It could also be someone asking for help, you get the idea. Region chat
Uhm yep, now add all the spam from the trade hubs, the clear spam spam guys garbage, and any crosstalk.......and your msg is quickly lost in mere seconds in any region with a trade hub.
Not to mention, the region chat will most likely never get used in nullsec, they all have private intel channels and Voice comms. Oh, highsec...same thing private channels, corp channels, and voice comms.
This will never work as you intend it, people will get sick of trying to use it as the only option as anybody especially trolls or even those that are just plain ignorant/racist/etc in their speech will just muck it up. I personally do not want to listen/read that crap every day, have my game invaded by stupid garbage that does not interest me and with no way to turn it off, well it just gets closed....
YOU CAN NOT GET RID OF LOCAL, for a number of reasons SO QUIT TRYING!! |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 10:21:11 -
[55] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:manus wrote:Heres a quick example of how players can interact with each other. For example by linking the system they are in, and saying what they are doing. It could also be someone asking for help, you get the idea. Region chat Uhm yep, now add all the spam from the trade hubs, the clear spam spam guys garbage, and any crosstalk.......and your msg is quickly lost in mere seconds in any region with a trade hub.
Getting tired of these knee jerk responses. Please stop doing it. I already explained that you could make a separate chat for trade, like every other MMO. The reason people spam local in jita is because there is no better alternative.
"Not to mention, the region chat will most likely never get used in nullsec, they all have private intel channels and Voice comms. Oh, highsec...same thing private channels, corp channels, and voice comms."
The idea is not to make a chat that suits every purpose, its to make a default chat that is more persistent and thus encourage more player interaction. Alot of people will use something like that for whatever reason. Even in null-sec.
"This will never work as you intend it, people will get sick of trying to use it as the only option"
You are being dense. Whats the matter with you? I never said this chat was supposed to be the only one in the game. What is the matter with you? Let me explain it to you one last time, the idea is about making the default chat more persistent and encouraging of player interaction. If there is a problem with trolls it can be dealt with. But i dont see why there would be. This isnt twitch.tv
"I personally do not want to listen/read that crap every day, have my game invaded by stupid garbage that does not interest me and with no way to turn it off, well it just gets closed...."
This makes no sense. Why even read chat if you dont like it? Just dont read it. There is no reason to prevent chat just because you dont like chat. Especially when you have the option of simply not reading it. What is the matter with you?
"YOU CAN NOT GET RID OF LOCAL, for a number of reasons SO QUIT TRYING!!"
Capslock doesent help your case. Cut it out. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
313
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 11:28:35 -
[56] - Quote
Nope, I will not cut it out.........
1.) My responses are not a knee jerk response. 2.) We already have 'default' chats, your idea is redundant in that regards and not required, in fact it is waste of the Devs time spent on other things. 3.) Players interact when players interact, not because of nor because of not chats. 4.) I do make sense, I like having Local because i can use it to fleet people up easily not in my corp or other chats that already in the same system with me. I do not want to know sometimes what is going on in the whole region however, and you are trying to force that on others.
5.) the capslock was for emphasis sakes only.
6.) By now you have become the type of person that needs to be acquired in game, located and hunted down, maybe not by wardecs, but how about finding when you boost and attempting to kill the orca, failing that anybody in your fleet instead as an alternative target.
7.) your idea is shite, you are shite, and you should absolutely STFU now. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
528
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 12:30:27 -
[57] - Quote
I'm going to say this one last time, so maybe you can finally get it through your head.
regional chat already exists, if people wanted to use region chat, then they would. but they don't. forcing them to use it by default, instead of local would only cause even worse spam, even worse lag, and **** people off more than local already does.
it would be a waste of time, and development resources. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2546
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 14:06:09 -
[58] - Quote
Professor Sternu Tarantoga wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:Bots need local - it must stay. Mining bot fleets won't know when to warp back to the citadel to avoid interaction with actively playing players. Carrier ratting bots won't be as efficient.
LOCAL MUST STAY - think of the bots Now: Neut/red enters local and the bots warp to a save POS. After the "fix": Neut/red enters constellation and bots warp to save POS. While it is hard, but not impossible to get them now it would be totally impossible with a few systems of advance notice. It would be worse, not better.
No it would be better. Botters would get tired of a lone cloaky docking up all botters in the region. Or they would have to modify their scripts to allow some nuetrals / reds or something.
This would kill botters. They would stop botting or they will perish by the hundreds and then stop botting.
How long would you plex your 30 bot mining fleet if it spent all day every day idle in your pos because someone neutral or red was somewhere in the region cloaked up and afk? This is a lay up to get rid of botting. Bots that can't make a profit are not very useful! |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2546
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 14:08:04 -
[59] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:manus wrote:Heres a quick example of how players can interact with each other. For example by linking the system they are in, and saying what they are doing. It could also be someone asking for help, you get the idea. Region chat Uhm yep, now add all the spam from the trade hubs, the clear spam spam guys garbage, and any crosstalk.......and your msg is quickly lost in mere seconds in any region with a trade hub. Not to mention, the region chat will most likely never get used in nullsec, they all have private intel channels and Voice comms. Oh, highsec...same thing private channels, corp channels, and voice comms. This will never work as you intend it, people will get sick of trying to use it as the only option as anybody especially trolls or even those that are just plain ignorant/racist/etc in their speech will just muck it up. I personally do not want to listen/read that crap every day, have my game invaded by stupid garbage that does not interest me and with no way to turn it off, well it just gets closed.... YOU CAN NOT GET RID OF LOCAL, for a number of reasons SO QUIT TRYING!!
Please expand on your number of reasons (please only post good ones). I'll help you get started:
1. 2. 3.
Just fill in all these great reasons local can't be removed. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2546
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 14:09:47 -
[60] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Nope, I will not cut it out.........
1.) My responses are not a knee jerk response. 2.) We already have 'default' chats, your idea is redundant in that regards and not required, in fact it is waste of the Devs time spent on other things. 3.) Players interact when players interact, not because of nor because of not chats. 4.) I do make sense, I like having Local because i can use it to fleet people up easily not in my corp or other chats that already in the same system with me. I do not want to know sometimes what is going on in the whole region however, and you are trying to force that on others.
5.) the capslock was for emphasis sakes only.
6.) By now you have become the type of person that needs to be acquired in game, located and hunted down, maybe not by wardecs, but how about finding when you boost and attempting to kill the orca, failing that anybody in your fleet instead as an alternative target.
7.) your idea is shite, you are shite, and you should absolutely STFU now.
I don't really care about who uses it for what and how often. I just want it so bot wither and die. Other than botting, what is local good for? |
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Cade Windstalker
1307
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 15:01:02 -
[61] - Quote
manus wrote:Only an ignorant person would believe this wouldnt be the case.
Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence or even references to current behavior that might reasonably lead to the behavior you're saying will occur. You have none of that, you're just saying that if we magically change Local to a Region wide chat channel that people will somehow be more active in it, despite that killing the few uses Local already sees. Namely smack-talk with people you're about to fight, fighting currently, or have just fought and throwing out things like "GF" or "Good Fight" and the like. None of that applies or works with a region-wide channel.
manus wrote:It is also voluntary if you want to participate in local chat. And it will also be voluntary if you want to participate if local chat was replaced with regional chat. But if you are so scared of socialising, there could be a setting to mute the chat.
Again though, if it's already voluntary to participate in Local, and it would be voluntary to participate in your Region chat, then why do we need Region chat? We already have all of these public channels, people just choose not to participate in them.
You have made zero case for this being any kind of improvement, you've just assumed it will be and gone from there.
manus wrote:Yes i have, and its not that bad. If you are concerned its a problem, there can be a restriction to link contracts. A timer. Maybe people would form actual trade chats then.
Trade chats and forums already exist, people spam contracts in trade-hub local because they're trying to reach a wide audience. Also there is currently no mechanism to prevent links of any sort in any channel, so that's more work CCP would have to do to implement this and another strike against it being worthwhile. It also wouldn't actually stop the spam, you just tell people "Search for X on contracts!" instead of linking directly.
manus wrote:Quick idea. What if there was a regional trade chat. Everyone participates by default but it can be disabled if you want. This chat will be for spamming contracts etc. In the general chat it will cost money to link. (This is to not restrict players from communicating contracts, but at the same time prevent people from spamming. in trade chat there will be less restrictions - for example only on very obvious spam perhaps)
There are already trade channels and there's zero reason to restrict trade to a single region. Someone currently out in Period Basis may want to sell something currently sitting in Jita.
There is no need of a Region wide channel, and I think it's been made very clear that very very few people want it, and those that do just want local removed because they think it will make their gameplay easier or better. |
manus
WESCORP 2.0
2
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 15:15:09 -
[62] - Quote
Quote: Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence
Rofl. If you cant see how this leads to a more active chat i cant help you. Besides, if you are so smart, when is the last time you had an idea? And what was it? |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
314
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 16:40:35 -
[63] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I don't really care about who uses it for what and how often. I just want it so bot wither and die. Other than botting, what is local good for?
Thing is without having to get technical because I am not myself a programmer, but i know a few people who are, Bots do not use 'local chat' to operate in the way you are implying. They however do use local. |
Cade Windstalker
1307
|
Posted - 2017.04.14 17:30:37 -
[64] - Quote
manus wrote:Quote: Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence Rofl. If you cant see how this leads to a more active chat i cant help you. Besides, if you are so smart, when is the last time you had an idea? And what was it?
I can see how this would lead to a more spam-filled chat, I don't see how it would lead to anything usable or enjoyable for the vast majority of players, considering "local is/gave me cancer" (or similar phrases) is practically a meme in Eve.
Shooting down your bad idea does not require that I have a good idea to propose in its place. That is not how this works.
For reference though, most of the ideas I have that are Eve related I put through my own meat-grinder of "why won't this work" and very very very few of them pass. The last one to pass got posted in the new Little Things thread, you're welcome to read it there. Personally though I don't feel it's my job to play Game Dev, CCP has people they pay for that, I'm here to play not design the game for them. |
Tessa Sage
Legion of the Wicked Way Advent of Fate
1
|
Posted - 2017.04.19 22:02:45 -
[65] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:manus wrote:Heres a quick example of how players can interact with each other. For example by linking the system they are in, and saying what they are doing. It could also be someone asking for help, you get the idea. Region chat Uhm yep, now add all the spam from the trade hubs, the clear spam spam guys garbage, and any crosstalk.......and your msg is quickly lost in mere seconds in any region with a trade hub. .... YOU CAN NOT GET RID OF LOCAL, for a number of reasons SO QUIT TRYING!!
I don't know of any greater source of in-game frustration and fatigue than having to resolve conflict or confusion in comms when the same relevant tidbits have already been affirmed in the in-game chat channels available. Do not count on third party apps for the entirety of login, in fact, that is a disgrace to the user's CPU / multi-thread expectations.
Place intel, fleet and pings of any regional applicability in the same gosh darn text thread.
Whether lowsec or null, get rid of existing local and you have Constellation supplying info to people who are blue to that corner of space -- simply throw in an Encounter Surveillance module at high-traffic / regional gates and other points of interest..
Hisec, the same channel becomes more sporting venue; a blend of regional @everyone's and newly posted contracts auto-linked. What is wonderful about reviving the Constellation chat channel in this manner is you can then set filters for only seeing updates and auto-linked text scrawls from particular entities at your leisure.
Best,
Tessa |
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2761
|
Posted - 2017.04.21 07:44:08 -
[66] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:manus wrote:Only an ignorant person would believe this wouldnt be the case. Only an ignorant person would make broad claims about player behavior with no supporting evidence or even references to current behavior that might reasonably lead to the behavior you're saying will occur. You have none of that, you're just saying that if we magically change Local to a Region wide chat channel that people will somehow be more active in it, despite that killing the few uses Local already sees. Namely smack-talk with people you're about to fight, fighting currently, or have just fought and throwing out things like "GF" or "Good Fight" and the like. None of that applies or works with a region-wide channel. manus wrote:It is also voluntary if you want to participate in local chat. And it will also be voluntary if you want to participate if local chat was replaced with regional chat. But if you are so scared of socialising, there could be a setting to mute the chat. Again though, if it's already voluntary to participate in Local, and it would be voluntary to participate in your Region chat, then why do we need Region chat? We already have all of these public channels, people just choose not to participate in them. You have made zero case for this being any kind of improvement, you've just assumed it will be and gone from there. manus wrote:Yes i have, and its not that bad. If you are concerned its a problem, there can be a restriction to link contracts. A timer. Maybe people would form actual trade chats then. Trade chats and forums already exist, people spam contracts in trade-hub local because they're trying to reach a wide audience. Also there is currently no mechanism to prevent links of any sort in any channel, so that's more work CCP would have to do to implement this and another strike against it being worthwhile. It also wouldn't actually stop the spam, you just tell people "Search for X on contracts!" instead of linking directly. manus wrote:Quick idea. What if there was a regional trade chat. Everyone participates by default but it can be disabled if you want. This chat will be for spamming contracts etc. In the general chat it will cost money to link. (This is to not restrict players from communicating contracts, but at the same time prevent people from spamming. in trade chat there will be less restrictions - for example only on very obvious spam perhaps) There are already trade channels and there's zero reason to restrict trade to a single region. Someone currently out in Period Basis may want to sell something currently sitting in Jita. There is no need of a Region wide channel, and I think it's been made very clear that very very few people want it, and those that do just want local removed because they think it will make their gameplay easier or better. 1. Actually It does work with region channels - you still have local but don't appear unless you type it in. You in appear in all others. Solved, can still smack talk.
2. Why do we need region chat you ask? Local gives too much free intel which makes blueballing extremely likely. No local fights like in WH space can quickly turn from a gank by the ganker to a gank by the defender. Have active scouts is work but work should be rewarded. Spontaneous and dynamic gameplay > Theres too many, dock up dock up, or theres only 10 people warp to X. That's boring and uninteresting. Fog of war is always a better option.
3. There is a reason for region wide channels.
a) For one, its going to be easier to find fights, many times I've been warping around system to system looking for a target and not been able to find one. With region wide channels I could find a target in my region, use a locator on that target, find out if its docked and which system its in.
b) For home defense its extremely useful, you watch region chat and you see new targets enter the region channel, you 1) know they're online, 2) know they're currently moving around or just logged in.
c) Hotdrop defense, hotdrops are one of the most ******** mechanisms in game to find and get easy ganks. One of those reasons is the time it takes to organized and prepare for a counter drop or defense fleet to get to likely target. With region defense you will see the hotdropper enter region, you can organized a defense fleet or counter drop fleet knowing the cyno ship will be arriving. This is opposed to having the guy suddenly appear in your ratting system, drop, gank and all leave before fleet is assembled or arrives.
d) Social aspects of regional chat. Being able to talk to others in region who may not actually be in a channel you're in is much more interesting. Being able to announce an incursion or pvp group globally rather than only to allies is also beneficial. If you've been in space that both allied and hostile and a roaming gang comes in, being able to announce to all makes for a better chance of everyone ending up preparing and fighting rather than just your allies.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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