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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.05.07 03:18:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Quit trying to rephrase my, and others', anger with regards to this situation.
Anger I understand... and agree with. But this circus has gone on long enough and everyone, everyone, is acting the fool atm. I'm just being as dispassionate as can be atm. Call it perverse if you will... perhaps it's just the dousing of cold water so many of us need. lol... I just look forward to the day that I'll be made to rue saying I wanted to have Rthor's children. (If you step back a bit you may see the humor of this situation.)
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.07 03:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Quit trying to rephrase my, and others', anger with regards to this situation.
Anger I understand... and agree with. But this circus has gone on long enough and everyone, everyone, is acting the fool atm. I'm just being as dispassionate as can be atm. Call it perverse if you will... perhaps it's just the dousing of cold water so many of us need. lol... I just look forward to the day that I'll be made to rue saying I wanted to have Rthor's children. (If you step back a bit you may see the humor of this situation.)
I stand ready to email my accounting spreadsheet to any mutually-trusted third party for auditing at any time. That's my golden standard of accounting.
MP
--
TINY. Stage 2 IPO, because good things come in pairs. |
Treelox
Amarr
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.07 03:34:00 -
[33]
man what i wouldnt give to be a fly on the wall of eefrits computer room when he wakes up in a few hours and reads this thread.
TS thanks for bumping the drama up a whole notch with this thread.
--
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.05.07 03:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
That's my golden standard of accounting. MP
To not respond might be insulting to you especially when you lay out the lines and limits of your honor so firmly. Any other response from me would say that it is not enough... ... so will you accept that I think the above post, while commendable, does not belong in this thread nor do you need to defend yourself in any way. That's what I think mind you. And with that I'm going to bed to see what crap this particular Monday brings. Just like every other Monday morning.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
DeathGrip
Amarr
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.07 04:23:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Quit trying to rephrase my, and others', anger with regards to this situation.
Anger I understand... and agree with. But this circus has gone on long enough and everyone, everyone, is acting the fool atm. I'm just being as dispassionate as can be atm. Call it perverse if you will... perhaps it's just the dousing of cold water so many of us need. lol... I just look forward to the day that I'll be made to rue saying I wanted to have Rthor's children. (If you step back a bit you may see the humor of this situation.)
I stand ready to email my accounting spreadsheet to any mutually-trusted third party for auditing at any time. That's my golden standard of accounting.
MP
Motivated,
I am 100% certain the BIG lottery is not rigged. YOu can see your numbers before the lottery starts, and the people that choose the winning number is anyone that chooses to join in on it. I would put my rep on that.
What I don't think you guys realize is that TS could walk away with all the isk and be done with the entire thing atm. So I would watch how hard you attack personally. He explained what happend, probably should have been explained much earlier but nothing you can do about that now.
TBH I dont like what E did with this the more I think about it and read through the theads. He knew the entire time what happend to this isk, and instead of making a report about that and how how TS never shared that info he implied TS was scimming isk off the top.
And Last, this is a game, have fun, kill stuff, and if your really ticked at TS or E go find them and pod them. If you dont like what I said here come find me and pod me, its all in a days work.
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Barbicane
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.07 07:58:00 -
[36]
I'm glad I waited to hear both sides of the story before I made my judgement, and here it is:
* TS is a fool for attempting to cover up that 30B loss a year ago.
* Eefrit is a fool for putting his own reputation on the line, trying to backstab TS.
* The biggest fools are probably some members of "the forum mob" who tried to use the unfolding drama to improve on their own reputations, but they didn't have any real knowledge about where to go so they just followed the pack and tried to bark louder than everybody else.
* I'm a fool for spending the past 2 hours reading game forums instead of going to work, and probably also for not knowing when to keep my mouth shut 
Originally by: DeathGrip
And Last, this is a game, have fun, kill stuff, and if your really ticked at TS or E go find them and pod them. If you dont like what I said here come find me and pod me, its all in a days work.
QFT.
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Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:10:00 -
[37]
I reckon the important points in this drama has been voiced out, and readers are free to stick on posts supporting their personal biases.
For my impression of characteristics of the main players:
Tornsoul - Stubborn fellow who is difficult to deal with, but will follow his principles. Likely not to do the things in the way I would want, but is pretty predictable.
Eefrit - Business shark, who eagerly goes after his goals, using what ever method seems the best for the situation. Effective, if you can trust his goals are the same as yours.
-Lasse
with encorced bias against Eefrit
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Lemonx
Ascent of Ages
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.07 09:57:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Lemonx on 07/05/2007 09:53:34
Originally by: Heikki
For my impression of characteristics of the main players
My impression is that Eefrit will do what is in his shareholders best interest, while TS does whats in his and BIGs best interest.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.07 11:18:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lemonx
Originally by: Heikki
For my impression of characteristics of the main players
My impression is that Eefrit will do what is in his shareholders best interest, while TS does whats in his and BIGs best interest.
I'd say that Eefrit is doing mostly what is in his best interest, but fortunately for us that also overlaps with the shareholders' best interest.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises
Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.07 13:19:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 07/05/2007 13:22:39
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 07/05/2007 13:21:03
so, when the loan was defaulted on, you could've pretty much recouped the losses by selling those BPOs, instead of just casually mentioning it and ignoring it?
and you're in direct control of how many billions?
does eefrit issue divs? on time? with little words here and there talking to the shareholders? does eefrit at the VERY least, pretend (if not actually do) listen to shareholders?
does eefrit take 40% of the profits on his public ventures and then not communicate much at all about anything to his shareholders?
wow. seriously.
tell me again why you guys have invested so much in this venture? is it because of the tons of divs you get, or just because you like feeling victimized by someone who doesn't seem to care if you make *real* profit this decade or not? (real profit = your investment back 100% and making more than that, just fyi)  |
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.07 14:40:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Hexxx on 07/05/2007 14:38:36
Bottom line to everything:
As long as a person/public corp is working towards the BEST interests of their shareholders/investors, whatever else they do is rather unimportant (like kicking puppies or attempting hostile takeovers).
That's called capitalism. Or, to quote Gordon Gekko (played by Michael Douglas) from the film Wallstreet; "Greed is good."
As a market pundit, my opinion is that TS should have been more transparent. However, I do value professionalism as well on a personal level, and E could have exercised more of that.
As long as both of them continue to work in the best interests of their own respective investors/shareholders I'm not terribly bothered to be honest.
I'll finish this with the short speech which spawned the "Greed is good" ethos.
The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that: Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right; greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms, greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge ù has marked the upward surge of mankind.
edit: stockmarket pvp?
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises
Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.07 14:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Hexxx
Edited by: Hexxx on 07/05/2007 14:38:36
Bottom line to everything:
As long as a person/public corp is working towards the BEST interests of their shareholders/investors, whatever else they do is rather unimportant (like kicking puppies or attempting hostile takeovers).
That's called capitalism. Or, to quote Gordon Gekko (played by Michael Douglas) from the film Wallstreet; "Greed is good."
As a market pundit, my opinion is that TS should have been more transparent. However, I do value professionalism as well on a personal level, and E could have exercised more of that.
As long as both of them continue to work in the best interests of their own respective investors/shareholders I'm not terribly bothered to be honest.
I'll finish this with the short speech which spawned the "Greed is good" ethos.
The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that: Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right; greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms, greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge ù has marked the upward surge of mankind.
edit: stockmarket pvp?
just so i understand you correctly, you're saying that tornsoul IS working for the best interests of his shareholder? |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.07 15:12:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Hexxx on 07/05/2007 15:11:45
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
just so i understand you correctly, you're saying that tornsoul IS working for the best interests of his shareholder?
Public Disclosure: Before I answer, please understand that some may think I have a conflict of interest here. I consulted for FIN and assisted in the IPO launch. Please use your own judgement when it comes to evaluating what I'm about to say. I understand that some may be skeptical of my motives, my only response is that I have a proven history of acting and moving towards the best interests of the market. I do not own any shares of FIN or BMBE.
Now, that said, Torn Soul (and this is true for ALL Corporations that are owned publically by investors/shareholders) has a responsibility for TIMELY and COMPLETE reporting. Statements on net assets and losses (even ones caused by depreciation, as was the case here) are VERY important. I can't emphasis this enough.
Staying quiet for any reason (barring RL emergencies), especially when your investors are anxious to hear from you is extremely troubling.
TS gave E the ammunition here. E decided to use it.
---------------------------
edit: I'm not trying to marginalize TS, his accomplishments are of note and should be recognized.
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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Flying Spur
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Posted - 2007.05.07 15:15:00 -
[44]
How could he sell the skiff BPO and recoup the costs??? the prices had crashed for them due to the patch, which is the whole reason why the loan defaulted in the first place he would have got no way near the amount needed to recover the lost money.
As he has already stated, he decided not to sell the BPO straight away to see if the prices would stabilise and he could recoup a larger portion of the lost isk, wouldnt you say that is in the businesses best interests????
---
The Rolls-Royce of EVE Pilots |
Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
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Posted - 2007.05.07 15:19:00 -
[45]
A complete disgrace of a thread from Tornsoul. He has every right to respond to Eefrit's accusations -- in fact, he has a DUTY to answer to his shareholders for his horrendous stewardship of their isk.
But the tone and manner and laughably weak argumentation here from Tornsoul just makes it clear that trusting this clown with any isk at all is a big mistake.
Basically, you just made Eefrit's point. Well done, Tornsoul.
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Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2007.05.07 16:05:00 -
[46]
For the record I have posted my response in a new thread which you can find here.
If you have quite finished with the name calling TornSoul can you please get round to answering my questions I posted that have still yet to be answered.
Thanks,
Eefrit
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:11:00 -
[47]
Originally by: TornSoul
Claim #1 : Eefrit is a liar
Eefrit has *numerous* times claimed he had no idea about the defaulted 30B loan and the 2 skiff BPO's as collateral.
As was already pointed out, he claimed numerous times not that he didn't know about the loan/BPOS, but that he had no idea what Baun was talking about because Baun wouldn't say. Even if he did know about the Skiff BPOs that doesn't make him a mind reader that they were what Baun was on about.
Assume for a moment though that he knew about them. He also knew about the obscenely high interest being charged customers, which is more than enough that the bank should have recovered such a loss prior to December, combined with the previous reports indicating there was no loss, presumably because stated BMBE policy was followed and the BPOs sold off to recover the defaulted funds. He certainly knew the pay scale for management and non-payment to shareholders. All of which adds up to BMBE having a lot more than 70 bil in December. Assuming your post-default statement of value was true the value of BMBE shoudld have grown by now to be somewhere between 2 and 300 billion, not stagnant at 70. Thus leading to an assumption if no isk was available in December that something else had gone horribly wrong since the Skiffs. Something fishy did happen in December, Eefrits mistake was assuming that it only happened recently when infact it was the same smell and had been accumulating for months.
Did he know about the Skiffs? Perhaps, it's been less than a day since TS waited for Eefrit to call it a night before posting this so as to ambush him, we'll see what he says. Was it reasonable for anyone to expect that loss would still be such a major problem for BMBE so much time later? Definitely not. Originally by: TornSoul
Claim #2 : Eefrit is blackmailer
Have a look at line 07 (*2*)
It's the good old : Do as I say, or else. And if you do as I say, then nothing will happen
No, it's the old, 'I'm giving you a deadline to to the right/honourable thing and come clean or I'll expose you myself.'
Originally by: TornSoul
How could he *possible* not tell the public about this terrible thing he has unearthed.
Yes, how could he possibly not tell the public about the terrible things he DID unearth?
Originally by: TornSoul
Yet, he offers to do nothing if the BMBE does his bidding. So much for that moral high ground he has bee claiming....
I don't see an offer to do nothing, I see acknowledement that you could relieve him of the duty to do something by doing it yourself. There wouldn't be a need to expose you if you were honest in the first place, or even later in response to his ultimatum.
This isn't blackmail, this is giving you an opportunity to redeem yourself and save your reputation. An opportunity you chose not to accept and now you're seeing the cost of the choice you made. Originally by: TornSoul
Claim #3 : Eefrit is a briber
Have a look at line 15 (*3*)
"a way out" he says. Basically offering me 20B if I will just do as he wants.
I guess I can see where that interpretation comes from. Let me posit another one. Wanting to take-over BMBE he recognized that the CEO had a vested interest in not selling, regardless of whether it was in the shareholder interests. By offering a buy-out so it became zero-sum for the CEO he relieved that conflict of interest in hopes that you would then only consider the shareholders interests and not your own.
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: TornSoul
Claim #4 : Eefrit is a general cheat
He has cheated you all in this charade of his.
Claiming he doesnt know excactly what is wrong with the BMBE, but his unselfish self has at least determined that *something* is wrong, and he offers up theories for what that could be.
*He knew all along*!!!
It was all a ploy to try and discredit me personal and the BMBE, when neither his bribe nor his blackmail worked.
Charade? The only charade I see is you trying to use a loss from over a year ago to explain being down 30% now. That just doesn't wash. How could he know that someone would run one of the biggest public corps in Eve and not make any recovery at all in over a year? Since nobody would believe that it's natrual to look for other explanations. We STILL don't know what is wrong with BMBE currently or in December when Eefrit's suspicions were aroused. Only where things started to go wrong a long time ago. Yes, BMBE and yourself have lost a great deal of credibility, and will continue to do so until you have some answers instead of trying to distract people with accusations of your own. Don't blame Eefrit or any of the forum warriors for that though, it's mostly your own doing, with a bit of help from Baun.
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TornSoul
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:26:00 -
[49]
SonOfAGhost did you even read the numbers in the BMBE report (version 2)?
You probably did, but comes of as if you didnt...
 BIG Lottery
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.05.07 19:18:00 -
[50]
Originally by: TornSoul
In case of liquidation this makes each share (not counting the skiff prints for simplicity) worth
40,948,664 ISK
I read it, comes off as if you didn't though. As others have pointed out already, yours isn't the only public corp to take a loss. The problem is how you have (not) dealt with it and continue to ignore it.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.05.07 21:21:00 -
[51]
It seems very clear that both TS and Eefrit have been playing fast and loose with the truth.
TS directly reporting a lie about the books in a previous report for example.
Eefrit about not knowing what this was all about when he did.
There is a big difference to me. One is responsible to his shareholders and directly lied to them. The other lied in a manner that would bring to light evidence that would discredit his competition.
I personally think I'd be more likely to invest with Eefrit after all these posts and I'd never think of investing with TS. Eefrit didn't tell the whole truth and intentionally tried to screw over TS and BMBE... but I see that as being an extremely ruthless business person. He got information that he could use to his advantage and used it and it worked amazingly well for him as it has completely destroyed TS's reputation in the eyes of many.
TS on the other hand has come off as a shady character who is VERY slow to respond to claims, get aggravated easily and intentionally hid information from all his investors.
One lie does not equal another lie. Some are worse than others. Eefrit is a jerk, sure... but he is a jerk that will do whatever he can to destroy his competition. That seems like a good person to have working with your money as opposed to someone who takes your money and then lies about how he is using it/losing it.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
TornSoul
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 21:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shadarle
There is a big difference to me. One is responsible to his shareholders and directly lied to them. The other lied in a manner that would bring to light evidence that would discredit his competition.
Pray tell what makes you think Eefrit would not use the same dirty tricks towards his shareholders?
And Eefrit did much more than just lie.
Through and through unethical and morally challenged behaviour from the get go. From the get go!
Pray tell why you think he would not dispense the same behaviour towards his shareholders?
From my point of view - It looks as he would stop at nothing getting what he wants, beeing completly indifferent to any morals or ethics involved - Regardless who he screws over in the process.
Shareholders or not.
It's an honest question I'm asking, as the attitude displayed by many here simply amazes me.
It's a "he wont do it to me" attitude.
I simply dont get it - So I'll repeat : The question is honest meant and not a flame or whatever.
BIG Lottery
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Balogh
Gallente
Real-time EVE Stock Exchange
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Posted - 2007.05.07 22:14:00 -
[53]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Shadarle
There is a big difference to me. One is responsible to his shareholders and directly lied to them. The other lied in a manner that would bring to light evidence that would discredit his competition.
Pray tell what makes you think Eefrit would not use the same dirty tricks towards his shareholders?
Shareholders don't write reports, nor do they pay dividends or run public corporations (not taking EMFI into account).
If you consider revealing inconsistencies to be dirty tricks, then yes, I would like Eefrit (or anyone else) to perform said tricks again, if needed.
______________________________
Real-time EVE Stock Exchange, Blog |
TornSoul
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 22:23:00 -
[54]
Edited by: TornSoul on 07/05/2007 22:19:45
Originally by: Balogh
If you consider revealing inconsistencies to be dirty tricks, then yes, I would like Eefrit (or anyone else) to perform said tricks again, if needed.
It's the way its done. The means used.
Or do you belive the goal justifies the means?
And let me itereate once more : Eefrit didnt give a toss if this was "revealed" or not.
Eefrit did not care.
Eefrit was prepared to sit on that info - and *not* "reveal" it.
Eefrit is/was not a "fighter for truths" as you would like to portray him.
Eefrit didnt give a damn about "The Truth".
Eefrit would just as gladly have kept his mouth shut.
BIG Lottery
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.07 22:37:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/05/2007 22:38:28
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Balogh
If you consider revealing inconsistencies to be dirty tricks, then yes, I would like Eefrit (or anyone else) to perform said tricks again, if needed.
It's the way its done. The means used.
Or do you belive the goal justifies the means?
And let me itereate once more : Eefrit didnt give a toss if this was "revealed" or not.
Eefrit did not care.
Eefrit was prepared to sit on that info - and *not* "reveal" it.
Eefrit is/was not a "fighter for truths" as you would like to portray him.
Eefrit didnt give a damn about "The Truth".
Eefrit would just as gladly have kept his mouth shut.
Which he coincidently did for 4-5 months - Until ofc he saw a way that he could use the info for his own means.
If he hadnt - You wouldnt have heard a peep from Eefrit about this - Same as you didnt for those 4-5 months.
Eefrit's actions do not change the fact that you have lied to your shareholders.
Stop trying to derail this with ad hominem attacks. Don't attack the messenger, confront the message. I don't care about Eefrit. I don't care if he eats babies, kills puppies, and clubs baby seals. He doesn't matter. What matters is what you did, and the fact that you haven't apologized or explained it.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
TornSoul
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 22:44:00 -
[56]
Derailing???
*YOU* are the one derailing - This thread is about Eefrit - Not me.
Theres other threads where you can bash me in if you wish, and I'll answer - But not here.
BIG Lottery
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.07 22:48:00 -
[57]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Shadarle
There is a big difference to me. One is responsible to his shareholders and directly lied to them. The other lied in a manner that would bring to light evidence that would discredit his competition.
Pray tell what makes you think Eefrit would not use the same dirty tricks towards his shareholders?
And Eefrit did much more than just lie.
Through and through unethical and morally challenged behaviour from the get go. From the get go!
Pray tell why you think he would not dispense the same behaviour towards his shareholders?
From my point of view - It looks as he would stop at nothing getting what he wants, beeing completly indifferent to any morals or ethics involved - Regardless who he screws over in the process.
Shareholders or not.
It's an honest question I'm asking, as the attitude displayed by many here simply amazes me.
It's a "he wont do it to me" attitude.
I simply dont get it - So I'll repeat : The question is honest meant and not a flame or whatever.
Because right now, Eefrit is acting in the best interests of his shareholders. His aggressive hostile takeover (you could call his offer that I suppose) is a way to add to his bottom line.
Eefrit has (historically) always operated in the best interests of his investors.
However, you have not. You were not completely transparent in your reporting and were forced to revise your reports after your investors pressured you to.
At the end of the day, we have a purely capitalistic system here. My only concern is shareholder rights in this case, as that is sacred. How people treat their competition and other businesses is of little to no concern.
Is it fair? No. It doesn't have to be.
Is it moral? Probably not.
Ethical? If by ethics you mean "make investors money" then yes.
Your investors and shareholders should never be lied to when it comes to your accounting.
You broke this rule, Eefrit did not.
----------------------------------------------
I'm actually very impressed with what you've accomplished, please don't get the impression I'm not. You have a great brand, without question. What I'm bothered by is the reporting question (reporting on the value of your collateral seized) and the name calling which I personally don't care for.
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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Balogh
Gallente
Real-time EVE Stock Exchange
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Posted - 2007.05.07 22:57:00 -
[58]
Originally by: TornSoul
Edited by: TornSoul on 07/05/2007 22:19:45
Originally by: Balogh
If you consider revealing inconsistencies to be dirty tricks, then yes, I would like Eefrit (or anyone else) to perform said tricks again, if needed.
It's the way its done. The means used.
Or do you belive the goal justifies the means?
So let me get this straight.
BMBE lost 30 bil because of a defaulted loan.
Shareholder reports have been lacking crucial information (see below), at least until the previous report.
Reports were often late.
Dividends were often late.
Dividends were often zero.
Eefrit posted information about inconsistencies he found out by taking a loan, paying interest and doing math.
Eefrit also posted four possible explanations. At that time, option d (TornSoul is not reporting accurately to all investors) was the most likely option.
Eefrit previously offered a hostile takeover, which expired after 14 days without being rejected.
Before Eefrit posted the information, things were already inconsistent. His post did not change that.
Anyone could have done the same as Eefrit did. But not everyone has access to expensive BPOs and willing to invest time and research into this.
Eefrit owns a lot of BPOs, and apparently was willing to do the research. That means he's either very inquisitive, or he might have something to gain from all this.
In any case, anyone could have found out about this information and posted it.
So, you state that the fact that Eefrit might gain something (or a lot, who knows) far outweighs the issues I've outlined above?
---
About reporting:
I expect shareholder reports to contain at the very least current net worth (NAV) and paid dividend.
All BMBE shareholder reports (until this one) contain paid dividend, dividend per share and reinvestment amounts.
The dividend per share and reinvestment amounts are calculated values. By knowing the amount of shares (2000) and the amount of reinvestment (20%), you can calculate them from the total amount of paid dividend.
Net worth is not a calculated value. There is no relation between the net worth and paid dividends. No recent BMBE shareholder report (except the last one) reported the net worth.
The net worth is an important figure, as it allows shareholders to reasonably determine the value of their shares, when combined with the amount of dividend.
However, with the net worth value missing, there is no way to determine the share value.
A report with only the current net worth and paid dividends is a basic report. A better report includes things like income, expenses and in the context of BMBE, the amount of outstanding loans. However, while nice to know, they are not critical to share valuation.
Quote:
Eefrit did not care.
How do you know he does not care?
Quote:
Eefrit was prepared to sit on that info - and *not* "reveal" it.
I have addressed this in the first section.
Quote:
Eefrit is/was not a "fighter for truths" as you would like to portray him.
I am not portraying anybody. If you read my post again, I am using Eefrit as an example. Note the '(or anyone else)' directly following 'Eefrit'.
Quote:
Eefrit didnt give a damn about "The Truth".
Eefrit would just as gladly have kept his mouth shut.
Again, how do you know?
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TornSoul
BIG
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.07 23:06:00 -
[59]
Edited by: TornSoul on 07/05/2007 23:01:56
Originally by: Balogh
About reporting:
I expect shareholder reports to contain at the very least current net worth (NAV) and paid dividend.
All BMBE shareholder reports (until this one) contain paid dividend, dividend per share and reinvestment amounts.
The dividend per share and reinvestment amounts are calculated values. By knowing the amount of shares (2000) and the amount of reinvestment (20%), you can calculate them from the total amount of paid dividend.
Net worth is not a calculated value. There is no relation between the net worth and paid dividends. No recent BMBE shareholder report (except the last one) reported the net worth.
The net worth is an important figure, as it allows shareholders to reasonably determine the value of their shares, when combined with the amount of dividend.
However, with the net worth value missing, there is no way to determine the share value.
A report with only the current net worth and paid dividends is a basic report. A better report includes things like income, expenses and in the context of BMBE, the amount of outstanding loans. However, while nice to know, they are not critical to share valuation.
Good stuff.
Originally by: Balogh
Quote:
Eefrit didnt give a damn about "The Truth".
Eefrit would just as gladly have kept his mouth shut.
Again, how do you know?
Read the log. He offers to not post the info.
BIG Lottery
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:08:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/05/2007 23:04:48
Originally by: TornSoul
Derailing???
*YOU* are the one derailing - This thread is about Eefrit - Not me.
Theres other threads where you can bash me in if you wish, and I'll answer - But not here.
This entire thread exists because you are attempting to derail discussion from you back to Eefrit.
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