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Mark Ryden
Backyard Mining Co. Integritas Constans
0
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Posted - 2017.04.12 08:35:19 -
[1] - Quote
Having the ability to link multiple production and resource gathering location together via a NPC transport ship route. Is this something your guys think is useful ?
High Level what I'm thinking about you can hire NPC transport agents to set up transport routes between any station/citadel this Service can ONLY be used for items under the category Manufacture & Research (which inlcudes Fuel !!! ) you can select different service levels, something like
- Express: High Speed Haulers, small cargo space (10k m3) with 10AU - Standard: Standard Speed Haulers with, normal cargo space (65k m3) 3.5 AU - Oversize Cargo: Large Scale Hauler (1.2M m3) with 1.5 AU
Each service Level can be insured by paying some extra. Insured routes have two benefits: 1.) if case of loss you get compensated for the loss (payout depending on insurance level selected but wil never reach 100% of goods value) 2.) Insured transports have a rapid response escort fleet come to aid in case of attack. Something like the ones for the NPC mining fleets and in case of platinum insurance the response fleet will be heavy... means the attackers have to take a chance since they do not neccessarily know what type of response fleet will show up on grid.
you can also define "avoid systems" means to block certain system from being used for travel through by those haulers.
you can set the pick up time on the beginning station, the rest is dictated by the type of service level (respectively the ships used for the service level) and the distance to destination(s) you select.
The number of routes you can set by station/citadel are dependent on the size and type. Means X-large Engineering complex can host max number while medium citadels can host lowest number.
obviously the normal HS/LS and Null Sec rules on engagement apply, means you can't blow up haulers in HS if you are not at war with the respective owner unless you want to get concorded. Also LS you would need to consider gate and station gun fire etc ...
With this you can actually build a NPC driven resouce and production exchange network which obviously can be espionaged by hostiles and they are able to set up blokades or simple camp and kill anything they can find. |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
262
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Posted - 2017.04.12 09:24:48 -
[2] - Quote
Would this include random npc faction freighters to hit like mining fleets? |
perseus skye
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2017.04.12 14:39:03 -
[3] - Quote
No because hauling is part of eve and a big part of why it makes eve so challenging ,I'm all for new suggestions but not ideas that simplify what is already available |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1017
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Posted - 2017.04.12 15:27:31 -
[4] - Quote
I would only support something like this if they charged more than Red Frog - in which case, why bother? |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
510
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Posted - 2017.04.12 15:44:03 -
[5] - Quote
Mark Ryden wrote: obviously the normal HS/LS and Null Sec rules on engagement apply, means you can't blow up haulers in HS if you are not at war with the respective owner unless you want to get concorded. Also LS you would need to consider gate and station gun fire etc ...
If these are npcs then concord should not respond.
Also absolutely no to automating something that many players already do in game to make their isk.
May as well let me hire npcs to mine for me, and run my missions while we are at it. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2883
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Posted - 2017.04.12 15:47:26 -
[6] - Quote
No. Hauling your materials is probably the most time consuming aspect of production. Automating it takes away the need to have someone else do it for you or do it yourself. That takes away potential targets in space.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5431
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Posted - 2017.04.12 17:48:41 -
[7] - Quote
NPCs should never replace player interaction.
your NPCs would replace player interaction (IE, paying someone to haul your **** for you), so that's a no. |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3873
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Posted - 2017.04.12 18:20:41 -
[8] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:NPCs should never replace player interaction.
your NPCs would replace player interaction (IE, paying someone to haul your **** for you), so that's a no. ^^^^
Player run game means player run game. NPC's shouldn't be doing what players can do.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Cade Windstalker
1300
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Posted - 2017.04.12 18:51:33 -
[9] - Quote
What Danika said.
NPCs should not replace players, which is exactly what this would do.
On top of that no one with an ounce of sense would ever use this, making it a massive waste of time to implement.
NPCs don't get CONCORD protection, so these would be giant gank targets. The NPC protection wouldn't help unless it's heavy enough to stomp a prepared player fleet, in which case it's imbalanced. It wouldn't even be particularly hard to determine what the response fleet size would be in advance, just shoot the ship with a noob ship or something similar and wait to see what shows up. |
Mark Ryden
Backyard Mining Co. Integritas Constans
0
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Posted - 2017.04.13 06:58:29 -
[10] - Quote
ok I get the point with "Automate what players should do"
the thinking indeed was automation to a certain extend but keep in mind, if you hire a NPC hauler it would be under your contract means anyone who has an active war with you can kill this hauler anywhere. This is also the point with regards to concord. The NPC you hire will be temporarily not a NPC as such it will be a hauler for your crop/alliance until the contract is completed.
Means for war dec corps this will become much easier to hunt those down as the human haulers in NPC corps where you have no way to hunt them in HS apart from suicide ganking.
Also those haulers would not use jump freighters / cynos so even in null they are more easy to catch. I think this would offset the issue.
Higher risk if you use automation lower risk if you do it yourself
so the major issue I see is that this system will favour the large alliances and corps that have enough haulers or can afford the hauler corps out there while the smaller ones would need to take risk and are probably even more on the radar for wardec corps and gankers as usual.
Going next level. how about having the ability to set up this routes anyways but instead of the contracts being automatically assigned to NPC haulers they are put on the contract market for anyone to pick up. means you manage your logistics network in a separate interface and you can use your corp/alliance haulers or free hauler corps out there ? Seriosuly, the way large logisitics networks have to be run today and planned are so stone age, we should have something more advanced to manage them... NPC or non NPC |
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6403
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Posted - 2017.04.13 16:07:23 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:NPCs should never replace player interaction.
your NPCs would replace player interaction (IE, paying someone to haul your **** for you), so that's a no.
This right here. Player interaction: good. Removing player interaction: bad.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3302
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Posted - 2017.04.13 16:13:10 -
[12] - Quote
Mark Ryden wrote:ok I get the point with "Automate what players should do"
the thinking indeed was automation to a certain extend but keep in mind, if you hire a NPC hauler it would be under your contract means anyone who has an active war with you can kill this hauler anywhere. This is also the point with regards to concord. The NPC you hire will be temporarily not a NPC as such it will be a hauler for your crop/alliance until the contract is completed.
Means for war dec corps this will become much easier to hunt those down as the human haulers in NPC corps where you have no way to hunt them in HS apart from suicide ganking.
Also those haulers would not use jump freighters / cynos so even in null they are more easy to catch. I think this would offset the issue.
Higher risk if you use automation lower risk if you do it yourself
so the major issue I see is that this system will favour the large alliances and corps that have enough haulers or can afford the hauler corps out there while the smaller ones would need to take risk and are probably even more on the radar for wardec corps and gankers as usual.
Going next level. how about having the ability to set up this routes anyways but instead of the contracts being automatically assigned to NPC haulers they are put on the contract market for anyone to pick up. means you manage your logistics network in a separate interface and you can use your corp/alliance haulers or free hauler corps out there ? Seriosuly, the way large logisitics networks have to be run today and planned are so stone age, we should have something more advanced to manage them... NPC or non NPC
The current system we have is pretty close to FEDEX so not really stone age. You setup a contract to "FEDEX" and they put a price to your shipment depending on volume, distance and destination details where applicable. You can also insure your goods if you want to. |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
496
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Posted - 2017.04.13 16:44:08 -
[13] - Quote
So what stops me from jacking up the value of something, buying a bunch, shipping it with NPCs insured, and ganking my own transport? A player wouldn't take that contract because the collateral would be super high, but it doesn't sound like NPCs have a choice. Free infinite money for me.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Cade Windstalker
1303
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Posted - 2017.04.13 18:07:52 -
[14] - Quote
Mark Ryden wrote:ok I get the point with "Automate what players should do"
the thinking indeed was automation to a certain extend but keep in mind, if you hire a NPC hauler it would be under your contract means anyone who has an active war with you can kill this hauler anywhere. This is also the point with regards to concord. The NPC you hire will be temporarily not a NPC as such it will be a hauler for your crop/alliance until the contract is completed.
Means for war dec corps this will become much easier to hunt those down as the human haulers in NPC corps where you have no way to hunt them in HS apart from suicide ganking.
Also those haulers would not use jump freighters / cynos so even in null they are more easy to catch. I think this would offset the issue.
Higher risk if you use automation lower risk if you do it yourself
so the major issue I see is that this system will favour the large alliances and corps that have enough haulers or can afford the hauler corps out there while the smaller ones would need to take risk and are probably even more on the radar for wardec corps and gankers as usual.
First off, CONCORD doesn't protect NPCs, ever, so it wouldn't be people at war with you that could shoot these ships it would be basically anyone. That right there is a point against this, you're basically assuming a special exemption to existing mechanics and lore just to allow an NPC to do something a player should be doing.
Pretty much everything you're saying here about risk is a moot point. No one would ever use something like this in Null or Low unless they control the space the ship would travel through and the distance traveled was short, making the argument of increased risk nothing more than an idiot trap. As in, you would have to be an idiot to do anything where this might remotely matter or come into play.
Mark Ryden wrote:Going next level. how about having the ability to set up this routes anyways but instead of the contracts being automatically assigned to NPC haulers they are put on the contract market for anyone to pick up. means you manage your logistics network in a separate interface and you can use your corp/alliance haulers or free hauler corps out there ? Seriosuly, the way large logisitics networks have to be run today and planned are so stone age, we should have something more advanced to manage them... NPC or non NPC
You can already issue public hauling contracts, or private ones to one of the various reputable hauling services in the game.
This is literally not an issue for anyone with reasonable knowledge of the game.
Anyone doing Logistics at any kind of scale where they might need some kind of additional tool either already has those tools or has some idea of how to work around them. No small corp is going to be moving enough without alts to need a special UI for issuing courier contracts.
Now Corp SRP contracts are another matter entirely... |
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