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Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:08:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 17:10:31 Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 17:06:29 Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 17:05:42 This is just a short summary of the relevant posts and sites used and referred to in the discussion about BMBE, Eefrit and TornSoul. Might be handy for future references.
_________________
Initial post by Eefrit, revealing discrepancies in statements by TornSoul / BMBE.
Pre-launch #15 BMBE report by Tornsoul:
Real #15 BMBE report by TornSoul:
Thread by TornSoul in response to Eefrits initial post.
BMBE Shareholder report #4, mentioning the default loan.
BMBE Shareholder report #6, stating a capital of 102 billion ISK.
Eefrits post regarding the new accusations put forth by TornSoul.
Don't hesitate to link other relevant threads, sites or discussions in this thread, and I'll put them in the top. Thank you. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:11:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Sortiario Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 17:06:29 Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 17:05:42 This is just a short summary of the relevant posts and sites used and referred to in the discussion about BMBE, Eefrit and TornSoul. Might be handy for future references.
_________________
Initial post by Eefrit, revealing discrepancies in statements by TornSoul / BMBE.
Pre-launch #15 BMBE report by Tornsoul:
Real #15 BMBE report by TornSoul:
Thread by TornSoul in response to Eefrits initial post.
BMBE Shareholder report #4, mentioning the default loan.
BMBE Shareholder report #6, stating a capital of 102 billion ISK.
Don't hesitate to link other relevant threads, sites or discussions in this thread, and I'll put them in the top. Thank you.
Well done and thank you very much Sortiario.
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:26:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sortiario on 07/05/2007 17:22:28
Originally by: Hexxx
Well done and thank you very much Sortiario.
Thanks. I reckoned that the discussion was getting quite widespread over several posts, and the subject itself isn't that easy to keep up on, either, if one does not have the great market or business experience. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Treelox
Amarr Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.07 17:59:00 -
[4]
Ty sortiario, a great service.
I will name a ship in your honor for this great work of yours, cause gawd knows i ***** the forum with the best of them, and I was getting confused. --
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work |
Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.07 18:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Treelox Ty sortiario, a great service.
I will name a ship in your honor for this great work of yours, cause gawd knows i ***** the forum with the best of them, and I was getting confused.
Thanks, and kindly appreciated. As long as you don't rush the ship into a kamikaze run the next time I write a post that you don't like. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Treelox
Amarr Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.07 18:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sortiario
Originally by: Treelox Ty sortiario, a great service.
I will name a ship in your honor for this great work of yours, cause gawd knows i ***** the forum with the best of them, and I was getting confused.
Thanks, and kindly appreciated. As long as you don't rush the ship into a kamikaze run the next time I write a post that you don't like.
I'm too much of a tight arsed isk pincher to kamikaze anything, unless someone else pays for it.
BTW its my covops that has recieved the new name of "Sortiario's Honor" --
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work |
Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.07 18:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Sortiario
Originally by: Treelox Ty sortiario, a great service.
I will name a ship in your honor for this great work of yours, cause gawd knows i ***** the forum with the best of them, and I was getting confused.
Thanks, and kindly appreciated. As long as you don't rush the ship into a kamikaze run the next time I write a post that you don't like.
I'm too much of a tight arsed isk pincher to kamikaze anything, unless someone else pays for it.
BTW its my covops that has recieved the new name of "Sortiario's Honor"
Wow. Thanks. Hey, maybe you can use it to "communicate" with you enemies. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Barbicane
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.07 19:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sortiario This is just a short summary of the relevant posts and sites used and referred to in the discussion about BMBE, Eefrit and TornSoul. Might be handy for future references.
Good idea. I was recently trying to piece together some of the events of the EIB scam drama and it was next to impossible to find the information I was looking for. If someone had made this kind of summary at that time, it would have been much easier.
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Marodi Julita
Sublime Captial Investments
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Posted - 2007.05.07 20:25:00 -
[9]
STICKY!! STICKY!!
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Murukan
Minmatar Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.05.07 20:38:00 -
[10]
So what i've gathered reading that is a lot of "he said she said" bs and the fact that DS has his tongue up eefrit's arse.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.07 20:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Murukan So what i've gathered reading that is a lot of "he said she said" bs and the fact that DS has his tongue up eefrit's arse.
I've been watching BMBE be mismanaged for months before Eefrit even announced his offer for BMBE.
Honestly, I don't trust Eefrit as much as you'd think. But after watching Tornsoul go for months and months without dividends, then being late about 6 months in a row with reports, and outright lying about net worth... I'm siding with Eefrit.
--23 Member--
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! |
Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.07 21:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Murukan So what i've gathered reading that is a lot of "he said she said" bs and the fact that DS has his tongue up eefrit's arse.
I didn't say it was intelligent reading. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Shar Tegral
The HIgher Standard
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Posted - 2007.05.08 19:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sortiario Remember that TornSoul had had to deal with scammers inside his own corporation before, defending them in good faith, but later admitting it was a wrong decision. I'd not be surprised if someone inside BMBE or BIG had defaulted the loan and had gained personally from it.
Well done sir. You took a day or two to present yourself as nothing more than an uninvolved third party going about trying to help document the event and then... suddenly... you unveil yourself as nothing more than a gent provocatuer. I am disappointed as I actually thought you were worthwhile. I wonder what further attempts at character assassination well be attempted. May I be so bold as to ask you your employer is? Or your main? More importantly I'm just wondering when is this smear campaign against BIG & Co will end?
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.08 20:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Sortiario Remember that TornSoul had had to deal with scammers inside his own corporation before, defending them in good faith, but later admitting it was a wrong decision. I'd not be surprised if someone inside BMBE or BIG had defaulted the loan and had gained personally from it.
Well done sir. You took a day or two to present yourself as nothing more than an uninvolved third party going about trying to help document the event and then... suddenly... you unveil yourself as nothing more than a gent provocatuer. I am disappointed as I actually thought you were worthwhile. I wonder what further attempts at character assassination well be attempted. May I be so bold as to ask you your employer is? Or your main? More importantly I'm just wondering when is this smear campaign against BIG & Co will end?
Quoting from locked thread;
Originally by: Sortiario in another thread
I have not stated that is what I think. I just wouldn't be surprised, considering something similar has happened before.
Until either thing is proven, I feel confident that BMBE can deliver good, trustworthy services. Even since the recent case.
/quote
Feel free to search my background in its entirety, interview my friends and business associates, ask every member of the Eve community and search my house. You will find nothing indicating I am a agent provocateur or anything like it, nor that I have played Eve before I started playing this winter.
I consider your post political rhetoric. Please see the context of my posts as a whole before posting any non-factual accusations. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Shar Tegral
The HIgher Standard
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Posted - 2007.05.08 20:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sortiario Please see the context of my posts as a whole before posting any non-factual accusations.
Irony in action. I'm working with the context of your post. You posted a non-factual "speculation" that unfairly accused someone of BIG. As to your protestations of search your house, ask your friends, blah-blah-blah. All good alt provocateurs go singing the same tune. It doesn't take two weeks for someone to become marginalized in this game. According to your claims, you've had since winter. If that's really when you started playing Eve and not just the creation of your toon. The only people who realize how hard it is to prove anything in Eve is those unfairly accused of something... or those trying to slander someone. Your words were slanderous and you have no apparent "reason" for them. Not my choice you spoke them.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.08 20:26:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sortiario on 08/05/2007 20:22:44
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Sortiario Please see the context of my posts as a whole before posting any non-factual accusations.
Irony in action. I'm working with the context of your post. You posted a non-factual "speculation" that unfairly accused someone of BIG. As to your protestations of search your house, ask your friends, blah-blah-blah. All good alt provocateurs go singing the same tune. It doesn't take two weeks for someone to become marginalized in this game. According to your claims, you've had since winter. If that's really when you started playing Eve and not just the creation of your toon. The only people who realize how hard it is to prove anything in Eve is those unfairly accused of something... or those trying to slander someone. Your words were slanderous and you have no apparent "reason" for them. Not my choice you spoke them.
I'm sure that your intentions are only good. Just notice;
I did not accuse BMBE, TornSoul or any BIG/BMBE member of stealing by defaulting the loan. I simply implied that I'd not be surprised, and this is a major difference. I can only say that your response is empty rhetoric.
___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.09 20:21:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sortiario on 09/05/2007 20:17:03 Updated with Eefrits timeline. I'll be busy with examination the next month, so I guess you won't have annoying cross-posting and pointless arguments, atleast until I'm back. EVE mail me if you have a link update, and I'll check it within 24 hours.
___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
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Posted - 2007.05.09 20:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Sortiario Please see the context of my posts as a whole before posting any non-factual accusations.
Irony in action. I'm working with the context of your post. You posted a non-factual "speculation" that unfairly accused someone of BIG. As to your protestations of search your house, ask your friends, blah-blah-blah. All good alt provocateurs go singing the same tune. It doesn't take two weeks for someone to become marginalized in this game. According to your claims, you've had since winter. If that's really when you started playing Eve and not just the creation of your toon. The only people who realize how hard it is to prove anything in Eve is those unfairly accused of something... or those trying to slander someone. Your words were slanderous and you have no apparent "reason" for them. Not my choice you spoke them.
ROFL! Speaking of irony in action -- you're the dude who accused some guy of being a scammer, because you didn't understand some game mechanics. You never admitted error, or apologized, or anything. You just called everyone in Eve an idiot, and withdrew.
"Your words were slanderous and you have no apparent "reason" for them."
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
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Barbicane
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:55:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sortiario Feel free to search my background in its entirety... I started playing this winter.
For that exact reason, that you are (or at least seem to be) fairly new in this community, I too find it strange that you put such effort into trying to link together all the mistakes TornSoul has made, yet consistently fail to mention all the hard work that made him a hero in the eyes of many older players, namely:
#1 The BIG Deal #2 The BIG Lottery
Please reasearch those if you are interested in presenting a more complete picture of TornSoul.
I'm not trying to justify the mistakes he made with BMBE or that character transfer way back in 2004, but if you choose to only focus on the failures, people are bound to think that you have some kind of agenda. And while that may make you popular in some camps it will also get you many enemies. Not sure that's what you want.
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Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.10 10:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Barbicane
Originally by: Sortiario Feel free to search my background in its entirety... I started playing this winter.
For that exact reason, that you are (or at least seem to be) fairly new in this community, I too find it strange that you put such effort into trying to link together all the mistakes TornSoul has made, yet consistently fail to mention all the hard work that made him a hero in the eyes of many older players, namely:
#1 The BIG Deal #2 The BIG Lottery
Please reasearch those if you are interested in presenting a more complete picture of TornSoul.
I'm not trying to justify the mistakes he made with BMBE or that character transfer way back in 2004, but if you choose to only focus on the failures, people are bound to think that you have some kind of agenda. And while that may make you popular in some camps it will also get you many enemies. Not sure that's what you want.
When I entered this discussion, I did not know about TornSouls history. I admit I could have done some research on that before I started spraying posts. ___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.10 11:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Johnny ReeRee
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Sortiario Please see the context of my posts as a whole before posting any non-factual accusations.
Irony in action. I'm working with the context of your post. You posted a non-factual "speculation" that unfairly accused someone of BIG. As to your protestations of search your house, ask your friends, blah-blah-blah. All good alt provocateurs go singing the same tune. It doesn't take two weeks for someone to become marginalized in this game. According to your claims, you've had since winter. If that's really when you started playing Eve and not just the creation of your toon. The only people who realize how hard it is to prove anything in Eve is those unfairly accused of something... or those trying to slander someone. Your words were slanderous and you have no apparent "reason" for them. Not my choice you spoke them.
ROFL! Speaking of irony in action -- you're the dude who accused some guy of being a scammer, because you didn't understand some game mechanics. You never admitted error, or apologized, or anything. You just called everyone in Eve an idiot, and withdrew.
"Your words were slanderous and you have no apparent "reason" for them."
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.
heh, irony.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.10 11:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Murukan So what i've gathered reading that is a lot of "he said she said" bs and the fact that DS has his tongue up eefrit's arse.
I've been watching BMBE be mismanaged for months before Eefrit even announced his offer for BMBE.
Honestly, I don't trust Eefrit as much as you'd think. But after watching Tornsoul go for months and months without dividends, then being late about 6 months in a row with reports, and outright lying about net worth... I'm siding with Eefrit.
but...
isn't it ok because of
#1 the BIG deal and #2 the BIG lottery?
don't those more than make up for, how did treelox put it... repeatedly misreporting profits/losses on financial statements (or something like that).
i mean it was ONLY 30 billion, and they've made back a good few million, hundred million, something like that from selling stuff from the BPOs. but they can't reveal who defaulted on it, surely it's not anyone from BIG, cuz think of the children! just do it. for the children. and the irony. |
Heikki
Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.10 12:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd but...isn't it ok
Depends what you want to discuss.
If you merely wish to participate in smear campaign (whether against TS or Eefrit), then you can pretty much ignore any details. For that purpose direct claims are about equivalent to murky hinting and implications.
If you wish to discuss about BMBE mismanagement and possible actions, then earlier history (or non-shareholders) have little impact.
If you wish to ponder upon character of Tornsoul and his trustworthiness, then even ancient history is very much relevant.
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd they've made back a good few million
What you think, could your post be categorized among those smear posts, with malicious implications? Malicious in sense that you probably know, or should know, better than your post represents.
-Lasse
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Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.10 15:06:00 -
[24]
I think BMBE is run by swell guys. If I had a skiff BPO I would have no problem at all trusting them with my collateral.
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Shar Tegral
The HIgher Standard
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Johnny ReeRee OFL! Speaking of irony in action -- you're the dude who accused some guy of being a scammer, because you didn't understand some game mechanics. You never admitted error, or apologized, or anything. You just called everyone in Eve an idiot, and withdrew.
I laid out my reasons and the facts that I based them upon and the one fact that you are still chewing on was just one of several... the fact that it was in error still had nothing to do with the logical outcome. Unlike yourself, I have admitted to having made mistakes. Not just on these forums but on webspace I myself once provided to the community from my own pocket. What little you may have seen in Eve is just that... and you should realize that what little you do see equals what little you do know. (That conclusion applies to myself as well btw.) Originally by: Sortiario Please see the context of my posts as a whole before posting any non-factual accusations.
Actually I retract the comment about "your main" as you made a fairly obvious gaffe that only new people generally make. Still doesn't mean you aren't marginalized in this whole debate. Whether its from accepting compensation from someone else or you did yourself once you realized how much demagoguery can be committed here... hard to tell.
The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it.
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Heikki Malicious
and yet, i haven't taken/hidden/forgotten about any investor money, nor have i stolen from anyone, nor have i lied, nor a lot of other bad things.
but hey, if people think that sometimes doing good things and sometimes doing bad things is cool, more power to them. if people want to invest money, knowing full well that they'll never see 100% of that investment back, again, more power to them. as the man said, "there's one born every minute."
i intentionally never put more than 100m into any one person/corp/alliance's offerings because well, more likely than not, the divs will be garbage. then people will get upset. then the self righteous people who are giving crap divs (and pocketing tons more themselves) will be like, "well, i only needed your money to fund my business' start-up, now that i've got the business going, i don't really need your money, so i'll just give you crap for divs and you can deal with it".
but that's just from general observations about various corps who have publicly traded shares over the past year, and not directed at bmbe in particular. |
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Zhuge Liang
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:34:00 -
[27]
There is already a thread made availble for this here.
Quick! To the Banmobile! |
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