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Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2851
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Posted - 2017.04.22 00:48:18 -
[211] - Quote
i normally use "neanderthrashings" in jest but i think it might actually be accurate here
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Cade Windstalker
1426
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Posted - 2017.04.22 00:53:53 -
[212] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Most people in null log in and just hit F1 when the FC says so, or rat/mine and dock up when a red comes in system. That's hardly engagement either. As a non-HS resident, representation on CSM should be proportional to the population that lives in that part of space. By character, not by player. That's a consequence of having HS alts.
Yeah, but logging in and hitting F1 where someone tells you to is still more keyed into the game than someone who logs in to run missions or run their little trading empire and doesn't really interact with other players unless forced. At the very least someone being told to F1 can be told to go vote.
If you made representation proportional then you'd end up with Null groups putting forward HS alts of well known Null players or something similar.
There's no way CCP ever could or would try to enforce a system like that.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1916
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Posted - 2017.04.22 16:36:05 -
[213] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:Most people in null log in and just hit F1 when the FC says so, or rat/mine and dock up when a red comes in system. That's hardly engagement either. As a non-HS resident, representation on CSM should be proportional to the population that lives in that part of space. By character, not by player. That's a consequence of having HS alts. Yeah, but logging in and hitting F1 where someone tells you to is still more keyed into the game than someone who logs in to run missions or run their little trading empire and doesn't really interact with other players unless forced. At the very least someone being told to F1 can be told to go vote. If you made representation proportional then you'd end up with Null groups putting forward HS alts of well known Null players or something similar. There's no way CCP ever could or would try to enforce a system like that.
We already had plans for exactly that years ago. Shills were even made as I recall.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Djsaeu
Xx-illuminati-xX
59
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Posted - 2017.04.22 16:46:44 -
[214] - Quote
If you want player feedback that is not affected by the big alliances, then why not make it where a CSM can not be in or affiliated with any big alliance.
There are Pro's and Con's with this.
Pro : You get more feedback from the little guys.
Con : There would be a lot of bribes flying around.
I am not a wizard at this, shoot..... I know nothing about it, but it is just my opinion on that matter. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2851
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Posted - 2017.04.22 16:53:54 -
[215] - Quote
Djsaeu wrote:If you want player feedback that is not affected by the big alliances, then why not make it where a CSM can not be in or affiliated with any big alliance.
There are Pro's and Con's with this.
Pro : You get more feedback from the little guys.
Con : There would be a lot of bribes flying around.
I am not a wizard at this, shoot..... I know nothing about it, but it is just my opinion on that matter.
We'd just run false-flag characters, or spread out among multiple alliances below the cap.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8333
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Posted - 2017.04.22 17:48:45 -
[216] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Kirell wrote:3) This is what needs to change most.
Eliminate the high sec ganking of players. It's the new blood that usually suffers the most. but it's also the old blood that is trying to play in high sec to actually get some game time in where they don't have to be on high alert all the time (you know... a lot of us have kids and can't get too involved in things, so mining, ratting hauling etc in high sec at least we get a feel of having some semblance of game time.... When these people get ganked in their haulers, their mining ships or their expensive mission ships....
Since so many of them lose all their belongings to high sec gankers who are mostly just bored, and aren't looking for a return on their gank (just in it to grief/ collect a killmail) they leave and never return. CCP has bled out more players to this than anything else.
The people that do the ganking, sure they would be pissed that griefing people is no longer an option. They might quit. But I bet 99% of them would stay.
You'd also lose fewer people, and you can be damn sure people would come back knowing they can play without being hassled.
but EVE is a Niche game you'll argue....
Sorry no, it isn't. They lost that title a long time ago. Especially after it went FREE TO PLAY.
But we know CCP will not change any of this.
So the outcome will be obvious. There will be those that will hang on simply because of the investment of time in EVE.
But EVE will die down to the point it will be a shadow of it's former self.
I know I'm waiting for that one well known space sim....I'm gone when it comes out. lol been running missions for 10+ years, been ganked 0 times. I also have been hauling for most of that time, and even dabbled in mining for a bit. If you put all your eggs in one basket and lose everything on one ship loss well that's a you problem. ungankable highsec likely results in a bunch of isk printing which isn't really a good thing.
Same here. Never ganked in a mission, only even so much as bothered in a mission 3 times.
All in 10 years.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
8333
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Posted - 2017.04.22 17:51:10 -
[217] - Quote
People use CSM to get the game play the way they want it.
Ironically nothing has destroyed the play of this game more than giving everybody what they wanted.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
175
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Posted - 2017.04.22 20:21:04 -
[218] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:People use CSM to get the game play the way they want it.
Ironically nothing has destroyed the play of this game more than giving everybody what they wanted.
I can certainly agree with this, and that was talked about when the CSM was first proposed.
A certain block of players are able to keep getting elected due to the nature of the game, and influence the development to more suit their tastes at the expense of other play styles.
That has happened.
Kind of like letting the players of a game to decide the rules instead of the referees. It doesn't always work out for the good of the game.
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
622
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Posted - 2017.04.23 20:06:28 -
[219] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:Except, it's not a democracy. How are CSM members appointed each year? This thread is a complaint about how the CSM doesn't represent the whole playerbase. I agree, but it's still a democratically elected group of individuals. I don't consider the CSM a democracy because it has no power.
We're not voting on how the game is developed. Most likely CCP would be developing exactly the same things if the CSM was all HS players. That's why I think the solution depends on having a high-level CCP employee to make sure all areas of Eve are being considered.
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Cade Windstalker
1431
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Posted - 2017.04.23 21:27:22 -
[220] - Quote
Aryth wrote:We already had plans for exactly that years ago. Shills were even made as I recall.
Heh, one of them wouldn't happen to have been named Dinsdale would he?
Djsaeu wrote:If you want player feedback that is not affected by the big alliances, then why not make it where a CSM can not be in or affiliated with any big alliance.
There are Pro's and Con's with this.
Pro : You get more feedback from the little guys.
Con : There would be a lot of bribes flying around.
I am not a wizard at this, shoot..... I know nothing about it, but it is just my opinion on that matter.
Because that would basically deny representation to a huge chunk of the active playerbase, and be effectively impossible to enforce in any meaningful way?
oiukhp Muvila wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:People use CSM to get the game play the way they want it.
Ironically nothing has destroyed the play of this game more than giving everybody what they wanted. I can certainly agree with this, and that was talked about when the CSM was first proposed. A certain block of players are able to keep getting elected due to the nature of the game, and influence the development to more suit their tastes at the expense of other play styles. That has happened. Kind of like letting the players of a game to decide the rules instead of the referees. It doesn't always work out for the good of the game.
People keep making this claim, and yet when asked to point out anything that has actively hurt their playstyle that was done at the insistence of the CSM the evidence is generally pretty sparse.
That's because the people with reps on the CSM wish it had more power to influence development, and the people who feel under represented or unrepresented believe the CSM has all the power and things would be different if only their voices were on there...
Something something green grass. *shakes head* |
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oiukhp Muvila
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
184
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Posted - 2017.04.24 01:42:27 -
[221] - Quote
I did some reading on the old forums around the end of 2005 / early 2006 and found it interesting that the threads regarding ganking were actually pretty rare, as I remembered.
And when "Carebears" complained about ganking; 95% of the time it happened in Low Sec.
Hi Sec ganking was talked about, and stated it was extremely rare, but that you shouldn't carry 5 bil (5 bil back then) in your t1 hauler. Freighters had just come out so there wasn't any talk about them getting ganked.
There were the examples of some duo players working together to gank in Hi Sec, but there were no large corps doing it as it is now. I know there are exceptions to that, I'm just talking about what was the norm.
Basically, The bar for ganking in Hi Sec is far lower than it used to be. And a lot more players are doing it; per capita.
Feel free to check it out yourself:
https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3519&page=3800 https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=290414 https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=221877 https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=289031&page=1 https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=286129 https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=295138 |
Cade Windstalker
1435
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Posted - 2017.04.24 18:48:28 -
[222] - Quote
Fun fact, Freighters were basically ungankable for... something like a year after they came out? Something like that?
They didn't drop loot, at all, and CCP had to figure out a way to make them do it. I remember hearing they actually crashed the test server with their attempt at can-spew from Freighters before they got around to the idea of bigger wrecks that had to be looted by other Freighters.
There's some other reasons ganking wasn't as common then either, one was economics, another was the playerbase was much smaller (less chance of finding something worth ganking over x time), ect. Functionally speaking, at the time, ganking was actually easier. Ships got insurance when CONCORDED, Warp to 15 was still a thing for a lot of that, ect.
Yes, there was (probably, we don't have stats just forum whining) less ganking then, but personally I'd put it down to more of a cultural thing than ganking back then actually being harder to pull off. |
Querns
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2853
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Posted - 2017.04.25 10:56:35 -
[223] - Quote
If you think highsec ganking is easier now, let me tell you about getting 5+ barge kills in a single smartbombing run. Consistently. Barge/exhumer EHP has been radically increased since the good ol' days.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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