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Cudaya Ebsldes
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Posted - 2007.05.08 21:56:00 -
[1]
Who is Dan Speed as in Quote: Dan Speed, acting economist for CCP
from this link The link from CCP
And does this person have a dev blog?
Thank you.
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.08 21:59:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Robacz on 08/05/2007 21:56:20
As I said in another thread, his nickname is Redundancy and he is graphic engine programmer.
Oh and his blogs: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=author&p=Redundancy
edit: mispelled his nick
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2007.05.08 22:22:00 -
[3]
I know my first thought was something along the lines of "what is a graphic artist doing acting as the economist for Eve?!", but at the same time we don't really know much about the man. Heck, he could have a PhD in economics for all we know.
That said, a large number of players play the game for the economic side of the game rather than for the pvp side (myself included), and I believe it would do well to foster the support of those players if Dan would introduce himself, and maybe post a dev blog of sorts (I'm not sure if he is a dev).
On the offchance that CCP is lacking in some area of economic discussion or even if Dan would just like a group that understand both Eve and economics, I would venture that there are a fair number of people ingame who have a solid grasp of economics as well as the myrad facets that make up the economy that we like to call Eve (pvp is for wussies!) who would love to participate in a discussion of that sort.
Whatever direction this takes I hope that we hear more directly from the guys (or girls) that are making decisions which will directly effect the industrial side of Eve.
Sincerely,
Eefrit
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Robacz
Essence Trade Essence Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.05.08 22:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Eefrit ... and I believe it would do well to foster the support of those players if Dan would introduce himself, and maybe post a dev blog of sorts (I'm not sure if he is a dev).
He is the one who posted blogs with details about "inflation" in Eve some time ago, with neat graphs and lot of interesting numbers. Look at that link I posted.
_________ Buying/Selling: Implants & Hardwirings Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, T2 Components T2 Distribution: 8 regions covered |
Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2007.05.08 23:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Robacz He is the one who posted blogs with details about "inflation" in Eve some time ago, with neat graphs and lot of interesting numbers. Look at that link I posted.
And right you are! My apologies for not following the link, as I assumed it was to the Financial Times article.
/Eefrit
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Cudaya Ebsldes
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Posted - 2007.05.09 04:11:00 -
[6]
From this link Redundancy
Quote: We call anything that introduces money into the economy an ISK Faucet and anything that takes it out again an ISK Sink. POS, for example, were designed to be a small ISK sink - they consume and destroy items that you have to pay NPCs to buy. An item is created, the ISK is destroyed, and then it's consumed while the tower is running. The last time I looked, I think POS were sinking nearly 3 billion ISK per day out of the economy in Eve, but this is actually a drop in the ocean in the overall economy of Eve.
You can call ôitö whatever you want, but it is not an ôISK ANYTHING.ö It is ôstuff that is created and destroyed .ö This ôstuffö is, I conjecture. the devs way to tag or name anything put into the game, like asteroids, skill books, isk payouts for missions, seeded bpoÆs, or anything ôprimaryö (what cannot be produced by a player). The concepts of inflation, deflation, GDP, etc. come much later when player activity occurs. I believe at one point some dev stated that NPC trading was merely meant to be a ôjump startö to an economic player driven market and was introduced as such. So NPC trade items were bought and sold as way to generate trade income when the player base and abilities to manufacture were small.
My recent beef is that there is no ôreal valueö to ôisk.ö That is, it is not pegged to anything. It is not pegged to a mineral, or basket of minerals, (skill book and npc prices are too small in content to be considered pegs) or any ôprimaryö ôstuffö introduced into the game universe. As such its value floats freely and in unexpected ways.
For example, look at the Zydrine price history. This is a precious mineral as can be seen by the fact that bpos use less of this mineral than say Tritanium. This was always the understanding until recently. Now these ôprimary stuffsö are out of wack with each other. In RL it is usually gold that is the sought after unit of value and generally inflation comes about (grant me a simple argument) thru the printing of fiat money. I think a case can be made that the devs adding ôcontentö without regard to any stable monetary unit has effectively brought EVE content inflation. Some things go up, some things go down, but everything ends up inflated as more content chases more content.
My point is that without something agreed upon stable, things just chase each other around willy nilly and isk has no real value other that what at the time it buys. The devs might see it as stuff and treat it as stuff but if theydo so then you have, I think, the current state of affairs. Curiously, I believe the net effect of the devs actions has been to create ISK DEFLATION, as isk holders now see that their isk buys more. But this is not a stable state of affairs imo.
But I donÆt have an economics degree; would be nice if someone with one would post some thoughts (without data that would be a great fly by the seat of the pants feat.)
But IÆm out of here.
Have a nice day.
PS, be glad when my sub is up.
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Guizzy
Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.09 13:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes My recent beef is that there is no ôreal valueö to ôisk.ö That is, it is not pegged to anything. It is not pegged to a mineral, or basket of minerals, (skill book and npc prices are too small in content to be considered pegs) or any ôprimaryö ôstuffö introduced into the game universe. As such its value floats freely and in unexpected ways.
Actually, ISK IS pegged to something.
There are items NPCs sell that have a fixed mineral value. For instance: Shuttles. They are sold in an infinite number at a fixed value by NPCs: 9000 ISK.
You get 2500 Tritanium by recycling a Shuttle, which cost you 9000 ISK. Therefore, it would be stupid to ever buy Tritanium off the market at over 3,6 ISK each, considering that you could just buy and recycle shuttles and get it cheaper. And inversely, one ISK is worth at the very least 0,277777777 unit of Tritanium.
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SonOfAGhost
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.05.09 13:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes My recent beef is that there is no “real value” to “isk.” That is, it is not pegged to anything. It is not pegged to a mineral, or basket of minerals...or any “primary” “stuff”. As such its value floats freely and in unexpected ways.
You mean just like modern RL currencies?
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes For example, look at the Zydrine price history. This is a precious mineral as can be seen by the fact that bpos use less of this mineral than say Tritanium. This was always the understanding until recently. Now these “primary stuffs” are out of wack with each other. In RL it is usually gold that is the sought after unit of value and generally inflation comes about (grant me a simple argument) thru the printing of fiat money.
The problem with your reasoning here is that while gold has value for making things (jewelry and electronics for example) most of it's price is purely speculative as there is more than enough supply for manufacturing demand. Price is not the same as value. The price of Zydrine on the other hand is based entirely on it's use for manufacturing, not as a hedge against economic upheaval. I assure you people felt confident of the economic future in RL, gold would be worth far, far less than it ever has before if the only buyers were manufacturers.
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes My point is that without something agreed upon stable, things just chase each other around willy nilly and isk has no real value other that what at the time it buys.
Again, like modern RL currencies. Items and materials have value to producers, manufacturers, distributors and retailers, time has value to workers. Eve immitates RL economics, just in an accelerated manner and with less restriction and regulation. RL currencies have no actual value either. While they have relative values to each other, each is effectively just a unit of measure for value of time and items.
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes But this is not a stable state of affairs imo.
Hate to be the one to break it to you, but neither is the RL economy. Western economies are headed perilously close to economic downturn that will make the 30s look like the 50s. How's that sound for stable? On the other hand, if people demand politicians start thinking and acting long instead of short-term (ie the next election) there's still some hope to avoid it. Of course that would take some very drastic measures. Doesn't sound all that stable either does it?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2007.05.09 14:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Guizzy
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes My recent beef is that there is no ôreal valueö to ôisk.ö That is, it is not pegged to anything. It is not pegged to a mineral, or basket of minerals, (skill book and npc prices are too small in content to be considered pegs) or any ôprimaryö ôstuffö introduced into the game universe. As such its value floats freely and in unexpected ways.
Actually, ISK IS pegged to something.
There are items NPCs sell that have a fixed mineral value. For instance: Shuttles. They are sold in an infinite number at a fixed value by NPCs: 9000 ISK.
You get 2500 Tritanium by recycling a Shuttle, which cost you 9000 ISK. Therefore, it would be stupid to ever buy Tritanium off the market at over 3,6 ISK each, considering that you could just buy and recycle shuttles and get it cheaper. And inversely, one ISK is worth at the very least 0,277777777 unit of Tritanium.
can we just sticky this quote so that we can avoid the redundant inflationary threads that pop up every now and then? |
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2007.05.09 17:10:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
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Empress Aphrodite
Soar Angelic
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Posted - 2007.05.09 17:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Redundancy Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
Very interesting Dev Blogs, thanks. It's nice to know about the thought processes behind game developments. I hope the future economy employee will be putting out regular blogs too.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.05.09 18:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Redundancy Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
You have no idea how happy this makes me. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
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Posted - 2007.05.09 18:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Redundancy Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
Read the dev blogs again recently (forgot they were even there) and I must say it was a very interesting read.
Now I know this may seem like an over the top request, but could you PLEASE try and hire an economist that actually has something to do with the market side of Eve?
More blogs please!
/Eefrit
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.05.09 18:33:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Redundancy Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
Ohmygodthankyousomuch!11!1!!!!
Seriously, we need some love here in the market.
Hexxx LLP - Business Consulting Services - IPO's, Business Plans, Share/Stock Pricing, and general Consulting.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2007.05.09 19:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Redundancy Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
This makes me happy as a clam |
Sortiario
Fair Trade Organization
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Posted - 2007.05.09 20:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Redundancy Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
I love Eve. I love you devs.
___________________ Sortiario Communication Consulting - SCConsult Communication advisory service |
Dr Slurm
General Commodities
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Posted - 2007.05.09 21:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Redundancy Edited by: Redundancy on 09/05/2007 17:08:51 Yes, that's me in the article.
We're actually in the process of hiring an economist to work on Eve full time.
*golf clap*
thank god, or ccp, whoever's bigger.
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Treelox
Amarr Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.09 22:11:00 -
[18]
woot gold bars in the market discussion subforum. They do care about us carebears......
--
FTEK | Production ~ Research ~ Sales ~ Omber Zombie's Wet Work |
Pang Grohl
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.10 19:28:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Pang Grohl on 10/05/2007 19:26:42
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Guizzy
Originally by: Cudaya Ebsldes My recent beef is that there is no ôreal valueö to ôisk.ö That is, it is not pegged to anything. It is not pegged to a mineral, or basket of minerals, (skill book and npc prices are too small in content to be considered pegs) or any ôprimaryö ôstuffö introduced into the game universe. As such its value floats freely and in unexpected ways.
Actually, ISK IS pegged to something.
There are items NPCs sell that have a fixed mineral value. For instance: Shuttles. They are sold in an infinite number at a fixed value by NPCs: 9000 ISK.
You get 2500 Tritanium by recycling a Shuttle, which cost you 9000 ISK. Therefore, it would be stupid to ever buy Tritanium off the market at over 3,6 ISK each, considering that you could just buy and recycle shuttles and get it cheaper. And inversely, one ISK is worth at the very least 0,277777777 unit of Tritanium.
can we just sticky this quote so that we can avoid the redundant inflationary threads that pop up every now and then?
The trouble is that it takes these to get people to realize that inflation isn't a problem, and neither is deflation really. There are two artificial limiters on ISK to mineral exchanges, that EVEers aren't universally aware of: the upper end (npc supplied constructable goods), and the lower end (insurance payouts). Meanwhile there are no limiters on income (sustenance for the lower, and income tax for the upper). Because of this people are able to earn unreasonably low or high income from their activity (work).
edit: Hi to Redundancy, too. A dedicated economist would be great as long as they didn't try to "fix" the economy in EVE.
Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting) |
Karanth
Gallente Freehold Industries
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Posted - 2007.05.11 06:13:00 -
[20]
Speaking of the value of currency being tied to things like shuttles and trit, how about actually getting that gold in there? I have sections of my wallet journal that haven't seen the light of day for over a year and a half. Free beer for those who mod my sig!
There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus
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Kari Moltov
Amarr The Forsakened Companions
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Posted - 2007.05.11 10:24:00 -
[21]
CCP have a real model of an economy and the power to change the dynamics within it.
I would have writte my thesis on this if I it had existed at the time.
I'm also sure various organisations would pay good money to use the data CCP has accumulated over the years.
Who knows, a computer game furthers academia!
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