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Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
10
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 21:59:55 -
[1] - Quote
It is really annoying how easy suicide ganking is and that it has basically no consequences. Its basically a zero risk activity, the worst that can happen is that you do your math wrong and don't bring enough alts to destroy your target or you will be unlucky and you don't get any worthy loot (if the purpose of the sucide gank is to make a profit).
I do not care that some players are multiboxing 10+ alts for sucide ganking. I don't care they all attack simultaneously. But I do not think its right that they can live in highsec with -9.9 security status thats just nonsense.
My proposal:
1) Disallow notourious criminals from docking in citadel stations. Force them to require other players or alt or to raise their security status if they want to trade in highsec. If they want to hide they have to use an upwell structure. Following current sec status and high-sec faction police mechanics, -2.0 or lower? forget docking in Jita. -4.5 you won't be able to dock in Uedama. etc.
Alternatively, "notorious criminal" = -5.0 and lower.
2) No rookie/noob ship for criminals. Player docking or respawning with criminal status should not get a free rookie ship in high-sec space stations. Force criminals to obtain frigate/shutle if they want to pull CONCORD from the gank point or to wait the criminal timer and then commit new criminal act before station to do it (and wait 15min more). (Obviously we cannot prevent them for keeping a home station in high-sec so they could respawn there...)
This suggestion probably could use some modifications because its probably not a good idea not to give a ship replacement to the newbie player who somehow attacks someone else in highsec from curiosity/stupidity and become a criminal. Maybe it should apply to "notorious criminals" only.
3) No citadel immunity for notorious criminals and players with criminal status. Force them to be docked in citadel before gank. Not to stay outside pre-aligned already.
This three changes will give high-sec residents higher controll over well known criminals who keep ganking every day. Unless they invest time or ISK to fix their security status they will be banned from stations leaving them the onlxy option of player owned citadels. Citadel owners might decide they dont want to allow well known gankers to operate from their citadel so they ban them from there as well. Result - they will have to get their own citadel. This also can create a player oriented content about "allow gankers to use your citadel or we will wardec you" or "disallow gankers to use your citadel or we wardec you" etc. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5460
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 22:04:08 -
[2] - Quote
@ISD: Can we have a containment thread for these idiots as well as the cloaking ones? |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3887
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 22:14:55 -
[3] - Quote
Stopped reading when i read the first lie. Couldn't even get past the first line.
Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
10
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 22:22:53 -
[4] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Stopped reading when i read the first lie. Couldn't even get past the first line.
Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Just another suicide ganker that will protect his activity by all cost.
I suicide ganked several ships myself. -0.2 sec hit lmao! And my victims didn't even knew that they can activate killright on me - like that would change anything - I fly through highsec almost always with suspect anyway.
Killed bunch a newbies their Leopard for lulz. Got to say it was very hard to do and very expensive too! |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
607
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 22:51:58 -
[5] - Quote
I am a carebear, however I do agree that the consequences are rather nothing more then a feeble attempt by CCP to make it look like there is some teeth to a paper tiger, the addition of tags that people turn in to gain sec status...bah, there is nothing with teeth.
That being said, there is no growth by the grazers if there is no reason to fear the predator, however the folks who are -9.9 and others are not really predators, they are bored e-warriors, but like all things there must be something for them to stroke themselves over, if you adjust you game play you mostly won't have any issues, if I was a -9.9 I would expect more teeth out of the cops, since its just the way it is now I have no need to play as a criminal because I don't have to learn to survive off the land and meet others because it's not challenging enough to explore the criminal world when you can just buy tags to get back in good with the cops, true criminals would live in the frontier bushwacking folks for survival, lazy gankers...they don't learn anything but rinse and repeat. |
Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
10
|
Posted - 2017.04.23 23:05:14 -
[6] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:I am a carebear, however I do agree that the consequences are rather nothing more then a feeble attempt by CCP to make it look like there is some teeth to a paper tiger, the addition of tags that people turn in to gain sec status...bah, there is nothing with teeth.
That being said, there is no growth by the grazers if there is no reason to fear the predator, however the folks who are -9.9 and others are not really predators, they are bored e-warriors, but like all things there must be something for them to stroke themselves over, if you adjust you game play you mostly won't have any issues, if I was a -9.9 I would expect more teeth out of the cops, since its just the way it is now I have no need to play as a criminal because I don't have to learn to survive off the land and meet others because it's not challenging enough to explore the criminal world when you can just buy tags to get back in good with the cops, true criminals would live in the frontier bushwacking folks for survival, lazy gankers...they don't learn anything but rinse and repeat. thing is they do not even bother buy tags - sure some of them do and if they do, then they will have NO PROBLEM with my suggestions because they won't affect them
But most of them don't do it because they don't have to do it. They stay tethered before citadel pre-aligned on gate they want to gank at and they do not risk faction police to show up and nobody can attack them (but they can attack any possible intruder that would want to try bump them because its their citadel that won't give him the tether). Granted - its their citadel, but its still workaround the intented mechanics of clone soldier tags and security status. Because that would make the continuous suicide ganking much more expensive right? |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3887
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 00:55:18 -
[7] - Quote
I don't suicide gank. I get ganked.
I just have the honesty to say that ganking is not that common. Its not easy to do well and it's stupidly easy to avoid. The only reason you get ganked is if you ****** up.
But you go right down this path of false accusations, lies and misinformation, and not understanding game mechanics. Every nerf ganking thread has these elements at their centre, so why be different?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3333
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 03:53:48 -
[8] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:Piugattuk wrote:I am a carebear, however I do agree that the consequences are rather nothing more then a feeble attempt by CCP to make it look like there is some teeth to a paper tiger, the addition of tags that people turn in to gain sec status...bah, there is nothing with teeth.
That being said, there is no growth by the grazers if there is no reason to fear the predator, however the folks who are -9.9 and others are not really predators, they are bored e-warriors, but like all things there must be something for them to stroke themselves over, if you adjust you game play you mostly won't have any issues, if I was a -9.9 I would expect more teeth out of the cops, since its just the way it is now I have no need to play as a criminal because I don't have to learn to survive off the land and meet others because it's not challenging enough to explore the criminal world when you can just buy tags to get back in good with the cops, true criminals would live in the frontier bushwacking folks for survival, lazy gankers...they don't learn anything but rinse and repeat. thing is they do not even bother buy tags - sure some of them do and if they do, then they will have NO PROBLEM with my suggestions because they won't affect them But most of them don't do it because they don't have to do it. They stay tethered before citadel pre-aligned on gate they want to gank at and they do not risk faction police to show up and nobody can attack them (but they can attack any possible intruder that would want to try bump them because its their citadel that won't give him the tether). Granted - its their citadel, but its still workaround the intented mechanics of clone soldier tags and security status. Because that would make the continuous suicide ganking much more expensive right?
You could always siege the citadels if you aren't happy about people using it. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
342
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 04:13:49 -
[9] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:You could always siege the citadels if you aren't happy about people using it.
But that would require taking responsibility for their own safety, instead of removing all risk from highsec!
|
Cybertherion
Pneumatic Cabal
7
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 05:53:41 -
[10] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:I don't suicide gank. I get ganked.
I just have the honesty to say that ganking is not that common. Its not easy to do well and it's stupidly easy to avoid. The only reason you get ganked is if you ****** up.
But you go right down this path of false accusations, lies and misinformation, and not understanding game mechanics. Every nerf ganking thread has these elements at their centre, so why be different?
You wot mate?
I used to frequently deliberately get ganked, then slide into the gankers system and sit in port while they rage around me telling me to undock. I then preceeded with Psi Ops, chattering away about hot bois and how expensive it is to wash my lingerie while the rest of my squad zipped through the system.
Violent knuckledragging types ingame and IRL have weak minds and are easy to manipulate, flood someones head with adrenalin and let their rage blind them. Allowing yourself to be ganked is just them taking the bait. I fail to see why that is a six asterisk up.
Blood is freedom stained.
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1064
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 07:58:10 -
[11] - Quote
I am also a carebear industrialist. It's over 2 years since I last lost a ship in highsec. I ran a multibox mining fleet in Everyshore for 6 months with no problems. I haul billions through Uedama and Niarja every week. Gankers prey on the weak and the careless. If you factor them into the equation when you choose what, when and where to fly, New Eden is safer than most big cities in the real world. Being human, I expect to make mistakes and an occasional loss is built into my business plan.
Ganking is an important part of the risk/reward balance - destruction means more demand for the stuff I make and risk means less competition.
Learn how to survive as prey instead of asking CCP to remove the predators. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:15:03 -
[12] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:It is really annoying how easy suicide ganking is and that it has basically no consequences. Its basically a zero risk activity, the worst that can happen is that you do your math wrong and don't bring enough alts to destroy your target or you will be unlucky and you don't get any worthy loot (if the purpose of the sucide gank is to make a profit).
I do not care that some players are multiboxing 10+ alts for sucide ganking. I don't care they all attack simultaneously. But I do not think its right that they can live in highsec with -9.9 security status thats just nonsense.
My proposal:
1) Disallow notourious criminals from docking in citadel stations. Force them to require other players or alt or to raise their security status if they want to trade in highsec. If they want to hide they have to use an upwell structure. Following current sec status and high-sec faction police mechanics, -2.0 or lower? forget docking in Jita. -4.5 you won't be able to dock in Uedama. etc.
Alternatively, "notorious criminal" = -5.0 and lower.
2) No rookie/noob ship for criminals. Player docking or respawning with criminal status should not get a free rookie ship in high-sec space stations. Force criminals to obtain frigate/shutle if they want to pull CONCORD from the gank point or to wait the criminal timer and then commit new criminal act before station to do it (and wait 15min more). (Obviously we cannot prevent them for keeping a home station in high-sec so they could respawn there...)
This suggestion probably could use some modifications because its probably not a good idea not to give a ship replacement to the newbie player who somehow attacks someone else in highsec from curiosity/stupidity and become a criminal. Maybe it should apply to "notorious criminals" only.
3) No citadel immunity for notorious criminals and players with criminal status. Force them to be docked in citadel before gank. Not to stay outside pre-aligned already.
This three changes will give high-sec residents higher controll over well known criminals who keep ganking every day. Unless they invest time or ISK to fix their security status they will be banned from stations leaving them the only option of player owned citadels. Citadel owners might decide they dont want to allow well known gankers to operate from their citadel so they ban them from there as well. Result - they will have to get their own citadel. This also can create a player oriented content about "allow gankers to use your citadel or we will wardec you" or "disallow gankers to use your citadel or we wardec you" etc.
Holy crap....
I should start a Suicide Ganking Collection thread like I did with AFK cloaking...and then after ISD locks it an a year later they'll create a sticky for these shiptoasts.
Look, suicide ganking is the fault of the pilot who is ganked. The large rewards are created by the terrible player who put way too much cargo value in his cargo hold.
Yes. It is that simple. Stop overloading your freighter and you'll largely be fine. No. Really. Stop being bad and you'll be fine.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:31:06 -
[13] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:I am a carebear, however I do agree that the consequences are rather nothing more then a feeble attempt by CCP to make it look like there is some teeth to a paper tiger, the addition of tags that people turn in to gain sec status...bah, there is nothing with teeth.
That being said, there is no growth by the grazers if there is no reason to fear the predator, however the folks who are -9.9 and others are not really predators, they are bored e-warriors, but like all things there must be something for them to stroke themselves over, if you adjust you game play you mostly won't have any issues, if I was a -9.9 I would expect more teeth out of the cops, since its just the way it is now I have no need to play as a criminal because I don't have to learn to survive off the land and meet others because it's not challenging enough to explore the criminal world when you can just buy tags to get back in good with the cops, true criminals would live in the frontier bushwacking folks for survival, lazy gankers...they don't learn anything but rinse and repeat.
You have it wrong.
This is NOT an issue CCP should even be looking at, talking about, considering or anything else.
The risk and reward are entirely based on player actions. A stupid idiotic player puts way too much cargo value into his ship and it is then blown up by suicide gankers. The solution is obvious: don't be a stupid idiotic player.
You're welcome.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:33:46 -
[14] - Quote
Do Little wrote:I am also a carebear industrialist. It's over 2 years since I last lost a ship in highsec. I ran a multibox mining fleet in Everyshore for 6 months with no problems. I haul billions through Uedama and Niarja every week. Gankers prey on the weak and the careless. If you factor them into the equation when you choose what, when and where to fly, New Eden is safer than most big cities in the real world. Being human, I expect to make mistakes and an occasional loss is built into my business plan.
Ganking is an important part of the risk/reward balance - destruction means more demand for the stuff I make and risk means less competition.
Learn how to survive as prey instead of asking CCP to remove the predators.
This man gets it. This man will beat the rest of you carebears every single time.
In fact, he is NOT a carebear. He realizes the nature of this game and takes the necessary steps to maximize his chances for success. And as a result he is not here whining for CCP to pat his poo-poo.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Juss Karbuss
Moosearmy Test Alliance Please Ignore
18
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:42:39 -
[15] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: /snip
But the point is. The risk/reward aspect of freighter ganking is due completely and totally to idiotic freighter pilots. Stop being idiotic and stop getting ganked.
Edit II:L Sorry I used the word imprudent...that might cause some confusion among some of those who are upset by freighter ganking. Imprudent means you took a big chance and it is likely to blow up in your face. Another term for it could be stupid.
Don't be stupid and don't get ganked.
That is all true, but that all doesn't change the fact, that there is basically no risk involved for suicide gankers for so high rewards. Two completely different topics. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1191
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:45:48 -
[16] - Quote
Other than the bumping part I completely agree. Getting Bumped, especially for extended periods of time, should either count as aggression or not affect warping.
Getting caught and killed is EVE working as intended.
Yes, it happens because it's easy and because the consequences are things that people that play that way don't care about. You make it even easier when you load lots of value into your ship and decide to make it easier to kill and then go without escort. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:47:42 -
[17] - Quote
Juss Karbuss wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: /snip
But the point is. The risk/reward aspect of freighter ganking is due completely and totally to idiotic freighter pilots. Stop being idiotic and stop getting ganked.
Edit II:L Sorry I used the word imprudent...that might cause some confusion among some of those who are upset by freighter ganking. Imprudent means you took a big chance and it is likely to blow up in your face. Another term for it could be stupid.
Don't be stupid and don't get ganked.
That is all true, but that all doesn't change the fact, that there is basically no risk involved for suicide gankers for so high rewards. Two completely different topics.
Of course there is no substantial risk because of the idiotic freighter pilot. He created the disproportionate reward for the given risk. If he weren't an idiot, there'd be now discussion right now. None.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:51:56 -
[18] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Other than the bumping part I completely agree. Getting Bumped, especially for extended periods of time, should either count as aggression or not affect warping.
Getting caught and killed is EVE working as intended.
Yes, it happens because it's easy and because the consequences are things that people that play that way don't care about. You make it even easier when you load lots of value into your ship and decide to make it easier to kill and then go without escort.
You only get bumped if you are a complete and total idiot. If you put 750 million ISK of cargo value in your charon with reinforced bulkheads guess what: YOU WON'T GET GODDAMNED BUMPED.
Or if you do, just log off. They won't gank you they are hoping to ransom you. But with 750 million ISK in cargo value, at most 375 million can drop. Given that the gankers will need about 500 million to gank you...it is not an economically viable gank.
Or let me put it this way: If you are getting bumped you likely made a number of dumb moves and deserve what is coming.
Bottomline: Don't be dumb and you'll be fine.
Good rule for life in general too.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:57:28 -
[19] - Quote
To be clear here....
Risk is not something imposed by CCP. Risk is imposed by other players.
Yes.
Risk is imposed by other players.
If you screw up, other players may be ready to pounce and push in your poop.
Jump instead of bridge....that is on you. You screwed up.
But deadspace mods on your CNR and get ganked, you were dumb and created a situation ripe for a suicide gank.
Put 6.8 billion ISK into your obelisk? Yeah, you just created a gank opportunity.
In fact, putting 6.8 billion ISK into your freigher says the following, "I love risk. I love it and I find it exciting and thrilling!!!" When you get ganked after doing this a few times...WITF are you here on the forums complaining? You got what you asked for.
Be prudent. Be smart. And you won't get bumped and you won't get suicide ganked.*
*Aside from getting ganked for ***** and giggles.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1191
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:06:20 -
[20] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Other than the bumping part I completely agree. Getting Bumped, especially for extended periods of time, should either count as aggression or not affect warping.
Getting caught and killed is EVE working as intended.
Yes, it happens because it's easy and because the consequences are things that people that play that way don't care about. You make it even easier when you load lots of value into your ship and decide to make it easier to kill and then go without escort. You only get bumped if you are a complete and total idiot. If you put 750 million ISK of cargo value in your charon with reinforced bulkheads guess what: YOU WON'T GET GODDAMNED BUMPED. Or if you do, just log off. They won't gank you they are hoping to ransom you. But with 750 million ISK in cargo value, at most 375 million can drop. Given that the gankers will need about 500 million to gank you...it is not an economically viable gank. Or let me put it this way: If you are getting bumped you likely made a number of dumb moves and deserve what is coming. Bottomline: Don't be dumb and you'll be fine. Good rule for life in general too. Edit: Oh and if that 750 million is in one stack or one freight can...guess what either it will all drop or none at all. Want to increase the risk for suicide gankers, create courier contracts with a cheap alt. There are plenty of suicide ganks where the item did not drop--i.e. the gankers got nothing and lost their ships.
Eh, you still might get bumped even with an empty cargohold. You know this. It's less likely, but it happens.
Regardless, the only reason you are getting bumped instead of disrupted or scrambled is because those things would trigger Concord. It's stupid that it effects warping, more stupid that it's allowed to circumvent the rules of hisec. Kill them if you want, but do it in a way consistent with the rules. 'Emergent' isn't synonymous with 'Good'.
But that's really a digression from the main point, which indeed was don't be an idiot about how you move valuable cargo around and then be upset that you got caught and killed. |
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:11:28 -
[21] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Eh, you still might get bumped even with an empty cargohold. You know this. It's less likely, but it happens.
Regardless, the only reason you are getting bumped instead of disrupted or scrambled is because those things would trigger Concord. It's stupid that it effects warping, more stupid that it's allowed to circumvent the rules of hisec. Kill them if you want, but do it in a way consistent with the rules. 'Emergent' isn't synonymous with 'Good'.
But that's really a digression from the main point, which indeed was don't be an idiot about how you move valuable cargo around and then be upset that you got caught and killed.
Yes, I know because it happened to one of my alts who can fly a freighter. I logged off. Came back 15 minutes later and logged in to a fully intact freighter. It was empty and ganking it would have gotten them nothing. It was opportunistic bumping hoping for a sucker to payout a ransom.
People who suicide gank freighters tend to be profit oriented. No profit they don't gank....so logoff. You might lose that (empty) freighter, but probably not.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1191
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:18:16 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah, I've been caught and let go too, except in t1 battleships fit with t2 mods doing missions. Sometimes that happens. I've come back both with and without a ship, and even a few times woke up wet in station because EVE is the only game specifically designed so that you can be killed twice just for spite in any given fight. If I didn't have piles of implants in that station it would be really annoying. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
47651
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:37:47 -
[23] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:You could always siege the citadels if you aren't happy about people using it. But that would require taking responsibility for their own safety, instead of removing all risk from highsec! I don't think I've ever read a post of yours I didn't like.
It's like you write stuff just so I can nod my head, yep. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
351
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:53:23 -
[24] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:and even a few times woke up wet in station because EVE is the only game specifically designed so that you can be killed twice just for spite in any given fight. If I didn't have piles of implants in that station it would be really annoying.
Alternatively, instead of looking at it as being killed twice in the same fight, you should look at it as being killed once with the opportunity to, if you have quick reflexes, save some of your equipment by escaping with your pod intact. And spite is a perfectly valid reason to kill something, as is harvesting the tears from people who lose expensive implants. |
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3889
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 10:32:44 -
[25] - Quote
Juss Karbuss wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: /snip
But the point is. The risk/reward aspect of freighter ganking is due completely and totally to idiotic freighter pilots. Stop being idiotic and stop getting ganked.
Edit II:L Sorry I used the word imprudent...that might cause some confusion among some of those who are upset by freighter ganking. Imprudent means you took a big chance and it is likely to blow up in your face. Another term for it could be stupid.
Don't be stupid and don't get ganked.
That is all true, but that all doesn't change the fact, that there is basically no risk involved for suicide gankers for so high rewards. Two completely different topics.
Yes ganking carries risk. Whether you like it or not. Any thread that begins with 'ganking has no risk' is a non-starter.
Answer this very simple question: Who sets the rewards for gankers?
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3378
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 11:05:31 -
[26] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:It is really annoying how easy suicide ganking is and that it has basically no consequences. Its basically a zero risk activity, the worst that can happen is that you do your math wrong and don't bring enough alts to destroy your target or you will be unlucky and you don't get any worthy loot (if the purpose of the sucide gank is to make a profit). Of course this is not true at all. Highsec criminals suffer pretty much all the consequences, and they are so harsh that basically no one but career criminals even think of shooting another player in highsec illegally. The 'outlaw' character can do nothing in highsec but move about in fast-aligning ships, loses any PvP engagement within seconds if you just get a point on them thanks to infallible NPCs, and is forced to pay a cost to even attempt to attack another player in the form of their ship.
Vokan Narkar wrote: 1) Disallow notourious criminals from docking in citadel stations. Force them to require other players or alt or to raise their security status if they want to trade in highsec. If they want to hide they have to use an upwell structure...
2) No rookie/noob ship for criminals. Player docking or respawning with criminal status should not get a free rookie ship in high-sec space stations.
Gankers operated perfectly well in systems with no stations (like Niarja) before Upwell structures and would again. Yet this would have significant and perhaps game-breaking effects on newer players who trash their security status in highsec or lowsec shooting other players as is one of the main intended activities in this game. I don't think many players would take to kindly to joining up to Faction Warfare for a week or two, shooting a few too many neutrals and being locked out of their stuff like their missioning or mining ships they left in highsec.
Both ideas do very little to organized ganking operations and yet have serious downsides for newer/solo/inexperienced players. I do think the idea of pirate hideaways is conceptionally a badass one, but it would require more thought and changes than this.
Vokan Narkar wrote:3) No citadel immunity for notorious criminals and players with criminal status. Force them to be docked in citadel before gank. Not to stay outside pre-aligned already. One of the design goals of Upwell structures was to provide 'feature parity' with the outgoing POSes. The tethering mechanic gives the same sort of in-space protection that the POS force field did. Criminals (and everyone else) have nothing new that they didn't have already with POSes in the tethering mechanic and I see no reason why certain players should lose intended functionality from the structures just because another player wants to shoot them. What is good for the goose is good for the gander and if haulers get to align safely next to an Upwell structure then so should those trying to shoot haulers. Anything else just smacks of asking the builders of the sandbox to tilt the game in your favour.
More importantly, if criminals are using an Upwell structure to stage out of and you object, CCP has kindly given you a mechanism to impose your will on them: wardec and explode that structure. There is no problem here that you can't already fix yourself.
So in short, -1. These ideas largely do nothing to open windows of player interaction (or are just plain unfair), and just pile more NPC enforced consequences on criminals that would impact disproportionately on players other than highsec ganking operations. I am all for a re-imagining of how highsec crime works to something that increases player agency and interaction, but more tedious "consequences" that give haulers even less reason to pay attention and hurt non-gankers in the process is not that.
Just pay attention and haul/mine/whatever safely like so many other players have figured out already. It isn't rocket science to be almost perfectly safe in highsec with all the protections the game already affords you. You have all the cards in highsec so only complete inattention or multiple errors will result in ship loss, and following the 'Golden Rule' not to undock in what you can't afford to lose mitigates even that. All it requires is a little game knowledge and some effort.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Vokan Narkar
New Eden Traders Aliance
11
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Posted - 2017.04.24 16:39:36 -
[27] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Don't be stupid and don't get ganked. HOLY CRAP!!!
This is not about me getting suicide ganked and crying over forums LOL. Check my char, check my corp you see I lost nothing to suicide ganker about a half a year. I learned how to avoid them - after all they seek only weak and clueless as was said and thats fine and that is not my concern here.
I actually became occassional suicide ganker using alt character so it doesn't hurt my bussiness over there.
Its **** easy and there are absolutely no risks. Especially if you do not do it for profit but for lulz.
Stop posting your nonsenses all of you sucide gankers. This is not a thread about removing highsec ganking from the game - none of my suggestions will do that.
My suggestions only cause a major annoyance to gankers who ABUSE the mechanics and live in highsec with -9.9 security status.
Thats not how this should work. Clone soldier tags were created for a reason. If you want to live in highsec without restrictions then you need to fix your security status with tags.
Right now what? Even with -9.9 you can dock in any station on highsec and hide or trade. You are not being shot by sentry/concord, only by faction police that cannot hurt you if you travel through warp to zero. Using fast to warp ship nobody will catch you in highsec either and unlike lowsec, the chance there is someone waiting with instalock in pretty much zero. I fly through highsec with suspect all the time. Even if someone actually catch me at gate with dis my ship is fast enough to jump back to gate or to fly from range and continue. Tornado gankers in highsec doesn't care about criminals/suspects either - they wait for wealthy indy to oneshot him and they usually camp only till 1j from tradehubs.
Killrights do not affect them in slightest - they are -9.9 anyone can shoot them without need to activate it anyway. And they do not get shoot at until they arive on the grid to kill the prey they seeked.
The only thing they can't do in highsec is to rat or do missions. Which is laughable as ratting in highsec doesn't provide good profit anyway and l4 missions are everywhere not in highsec. That is - if they were actually doing them. But they do not. They are (mostly) alts to remove any consequences or risks.
So tell me, what do suicide gankers risks?
You know you lose your ship so you use the cheapest and strongests options - thats not a risk. Security status loss doesn't affect you either - you gank with alt unconnected to your real operations so you are fine with that and it doesn't bother you. Also it can't be worse than -9.9 and the consequences are all the same and laughable. You can't be shot at when tethered (or docked) pre-gank. If there are multiple anti-gankers sitting in gate1 with blackbirds, all you need to do is to move your activity to gate2. You dictate where the gank happens, not them. You use a neutral alts to scan ships on the route. You use neutral alts to warp-to the target to zero range. You use neutral alts to bump the freighter. You use neutral alts to pick up the loot. Again - no risks there, you are avoiding any risks of this activity via alts. I do not mind this is a game of alts and this is not my concern anyway.
So?
are you actually risk anything other than your target will survive?
Can you answer me this?
And - assume my suggestions will get in effect. It still won't force you to fix your status. You can stay docked in citadel of yours (or rather your neutral alt as always to avoid risks right). Then undock and fly to gate and gank. Then you can self-destruct your capsule or get destroyed to respawn in npc station and buy a shuttle, undock and pull off concord like you do now. If you need to hide you can hide at citadel. If you will want to avoid buying clone soldier tags then you will still be able to, it will just be *** annoying to do it. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6418
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Posted - 2017.04.24 17:18:08 -
[28] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Don't be stupid and don't get ganked. HOLY CRAP!!! This is not about me getting suicide ganked and crying over forums LOL. Check my char, check my corp you see I lost nothing to suicide ganker about a half a year. I learned how to avoid them - after all they seek only weak and clueless as was said and thats fine and that is not my concern here. [snip] are you actually risk anything other than your target will survive?
Look, this is a tiresome and boring topic at this point. People complain about how easy it is to gank. It is GÇ£easyGÇ¥ if you know what you are doing. But people only do it because the other side presents the opportunity. If you are blind jumping a super capital to cyno beacons you are presenting an opportunity where you will likely die and quite possibly it will be very GÇ£easyGÇ¥ for those doing it. Once a player has serially screwed up killing him is going to usually be GÇ£easyGÇ¥. It is GÇ£easyGÇ¥ because that fool made it easy. So stop making it easy. That is my point.
And no you clearly do not think it is fine that suicide ganking is GÇ£fineGÇ¥ otherwise you would not be suggesting a nerf and an indirect buff to being stupid.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
3893
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Posted - 2017.04.24 17:41:35 -
[29] - Quote
Even says its easy to avoid ganking and that he hasn't been ganked in half a year. But still proposes ganking should be nerfed.
Carebear logic.
Whining about how gankers are alts. No ****. Ganking has been nerfed such that any character that does it is unusable except for more ganking. Still thinks ganking needs more nerfs.
Carebear logic.
Still doesn't know what risk is either. Anti-ganking thread 101.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
298
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Posted - 2017.04.24 17:45:44 -
[30] - Quote
I'd consider accepting docking restrictions now that we have citadels, but not without a trade. I'd be willing to support restricted docking for criminals if and only if faction police and customs ships stopped attacking ctiminals. The creep towards a safer highsec must be stopped. |
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