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Ash Beldrulf
Gods -n- Monsters
0
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Posted - 2017.04.29 18:24:12 -
[1] - Quote
Why is the in game insurance so bad? I don't understand why the value of the ships for insurance is only the base ore prices for the ship. If the actual cost of the ship was the pay out that would be much better. I have only been playing for 60 days and I have lost 2 ships. If I did not have a good corp, the isk lost would have forced me from the game. |
Ash Ray
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.04.29 18:30:56 -
[2] - Quote
Because insurance scams |
Cristl
604
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Posted - 2017.04.29 18:51:17 -
[3] - Quote
I don't mean to be rude, but both of your characters made their first post today, and both are called Ash, and are posts 1 and 2 in this thread.
This could be just a coincidence, or... are you replying to your own posts, mate? Do you need to broadcast for reps? |
Ash Beldrulf
Gods -n- Monsters
0
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Posted - 2017.04.29 19:08:06 -
[4] - Quote
Cristl wrote:I don't mean to be rude, but both of your characters made their first post today, and both are called Ash, and are posts 1 and 2 in this thread.
This could be just a coincidence, or... are you replying to your own posts, mate? Do you need to broadcast for reps?
No I am not an Alt, I only run one account but I have to ask the forum, why is the insurance so very bad in a game where your ships can be killed any where? I am enjoying the game but the Isk lost is killing playing for me. I get that the insurance does not cover the modules but the insurance does not even cover the ships cost. |
Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1104
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Posted - 2017.04.29 19:36:49 -
[5] - Quote
Platinum insurance will pay 100% of the value of a standard T1 hull. https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance. The standard "free" insurance pays 40%.
The value is determined by a moving average - probably 30 days for the minerals to build the ship.
If you look at the Zkillboard kill reports for your losses, you'll see that platinum insurance would come very close to covering the retrievers and within 5 million of covering the hurricane. You can't insure a pod but, if your corp has a Citadel you could have jumped into an empty clone.
There is a rule in Eve - don't fly what you can't afford to lose. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1590
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Posted - 2017.04.29 20:24:18 -
[6] - Quote
As far as I'm concerned, it's still way too good.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Ash Beldrulf
0
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Posted - 2017.04.29 20:38:19 -
[7] - Quote
I think for 25% insurance premium for the ore value of the ship is POOP! The insurance should be the market average for the ship and not the mineral average price like it is now. I don't mind the insurance not covering the modules because insurance fraud would be over the top. I would like to be able to buy another ship at the same price that my destroyed ship cost with the insurance pay out. I as far as I am concerned that 25% insurance premium needs to cover 100% market value, even if it is a tech II ship. |
Aedaxus
Digital Zone Corp
38
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Posted - 2017.04.29 20:57:27 -
[8] - Quote
They could rework the insurance but they will probably add depreciation over time on it because it's very strange, that after you used a ship for 10 weeks, the insurance payout is still 100% of the hull ore value. Not sure if EVE Online uses financial guys to inform them but ... |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6677
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Posted - 2017.04.29 22:28:22 -
[9] - Quote
Because loss is important in Eve.
That's a key design goal. If you can lose a ship without blinking, because it will be refunded, then what's the point? Why would you get the shakes? Where's the meaning?
Death is a serious business.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
1104
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Posted - 2017.04.29 23:04:46 -
[10] - Quote
Insurance contracts need to be renewed every 90 days. They are intended for PVP where risk of loss is high. If your corp offers SRP you can make money insuring doctrine ships.
Risk for PVE or industrial players in highsec is very small if you take a few basic precautions. For new players: - mine in .7 security. Asteroids are a bit smaller but CONCORD will arrive a lot faster. - fly a procurer and fit a damage control - a bit less yield, a lot more tank. - get away from the beacon, if a ganker has to slowboat 20Km to reach you, you have time to warp to safety. - set known gankers to terrible standing - they will be flagged as red in local and your overview. Your corp should do that for you. - maintain situational awareness. If you're AFK and get killed have the decency not to complain about it! - if you do get caught, align to something and spam warp when your ship is near death so your pod will instantly warp when the ship dies. You should never lose a pod to a ganker in highsec (unless they use a smartbomb) - don't buy a "permit". This is protection racketeering (perfectly legal in Eve) and they get to decide if you are "compliant". (Hint: it's not possible to be compliant and enjoy the game). |
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Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
New Order Logistics CODE.
762
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Posted - 2017.04.29 23:15:34 -
[11] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:I think for 25% insurance premium for the ore value of the ship is POOP! The insurance should be the market average for the ship and not the mineral average price like it is now. I don't mind the insurance not covering the modules because insurance fraud would be over the top. I would like to be able to buy another ship at the same price that my destroyed ship cost with the insurance pay out. I as far as I am concerned that 25% insurance premium needs to cover 100% market value, even if it is a tech II ship.
First thing you should realize is that insurance here isn't the same thing as real-life insurance. Barring the largest capitals, ships are as much a disposable material as the modules and ammunition inside them. If anything, the insurance system is unrealistically soft to the customer (must be subsidized by the NPC empires). Insurance covering the full market value of ships would be as ridiculous as if your local insurance company kept its current car insurance premium after the government had lifted all bans on speeding and DUI.
Secondly, as another player above has pointed out, if a game mechanic can be exploited it this game, it WILL be exploited. I remember times when people would have their titans blown up when their insurance was coming to an end because it was more economically sound for them to get the insurance money and get a new titan than to buy a new insurance policy.
Agent of the New Order
Live by the Code - die by the Code.
The Voice of Highsec
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Cade Windstalker
1489
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Posted - 2017.04.30 01:09:32 -
[12] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:I think for 25% insurance premium for the ore value of the ship is POOP! The insurance should be the market average for the ship and not the mineral average price like it is now. I don't mind the insurance not covering the modules because insurance fraud would be over the top. I would like to be able to buy another ship at the same price that my destroyed ship cost with the insurance pay out. I as far as I am concerned that 25% insurance premium needs to cover 100% market value, even if it is a tech II ship.
It is the market average, but what you pay on the market may not be what the average is.
Also there's a modifier applied to the insurance payout. T2 hulls basically never pay out anything close to the full value of the hull.
If you don't like the insurance value then don't buy it.
Either way though you shouldn't be flying what you can't afford to lose. |
ISD Max Trix
isd community communications liaisons
1768
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Posted - 2017.04.30 01:25:05 -
[13] - Quote
EVE is a game of risk. Ship lost is part of that risk. If CCP fully reimburst you the full cost of your ship, then what is the point of the fight? Where is the risk? Empires in EVE have risen and falled based on risk.
As for the cost, The most important and most Golden of all rules in EVE is this, " Never Fly what you can not afford to lose."
ISD Max Trix
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Ash Ray
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.04.30 02:30:02 -
[14] - Quote
Cristl wrote:I don't mean to be rude, but both of your characters made their first post today, and both are called Ash, and are posts 1 and 2 in this thread.
This could be just a coincidence, or... are you replying to your own posts, mate? Do you need to broadcast for reps?
Haha I'm not the OP. I only posted here because we both share the same name |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1692
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Posted - 2017.04.30 03:54:40 -
[15] - Quote
Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri wrote:
Secondly, as another player above has pointed out, if a game mechanic can be exploited it this game, it WILL be exploited. I remember times when people would have their titans blown up when their insurance was coming to an end because it was more economically sound for them to get the insurance money and get a new titan than to buy a new insurance policy.
This wasn't even the most egregious abuse of it.
I remember, when I first started playing, guys were literally buying ships off the market, insuring them, and then self destructing them because the insurance payout was actually higher than the cost of the hull + insurance. It wasn't long after that CCP changed the way insurance is calculated to the system we have now.
Basically, your insurance will never cover 100% of your loss, and it shouldn't. It's there to subsidize your losses, not make them inconsequential.
Also, Protip, never insure a Gnosis.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
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Salvos Rhoska
2835
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Posted - 2017.04.30 07:36:19 -
[16] - Quote
Insurance is a silly system, and might as well be removed.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
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CODE Special Agent
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Aedaxus
Digital Zone Corp
39
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Posted - 2017.04.30 12:26:45 -
[17] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote: Why would you get the shakes? Where's the meaning? Death is a serious business.
It all depends on the player;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyMzYYSLP_4
The shakes is that the movement of the head when falling in sleep at a meeting but yet trying to stay awake,right? I kept an eye on the second monitor just to push the stop record button. Google analytics show how much time people look at the video. It even had some added music and occasional inserted voice to keep people from dozing off. Watch the metrics on that video... right? exiting? The average view duration is 2 minutes... zzzz *yawn*
The meaning is that in the one sided war marmite started against us in high sec I tried to do something constructive (get badgers for a badger video) in stead of the standard, don't log onto account x for a week or two and play on my other accounts. So yes, they did in fact sabotage a more meme like video themselves... and that is what usually happens. Some content from players is added for "exitement" *chuckles* (read one sided ganking) and surprisingly turns into people just logging in alt or for noobs no longer logging in.
Wrecking is a serious business for those not having multiple accounts and trillions of assets, death (podding) is just a minor inconvenience for most players. Death is when a player no longer logs in. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
424
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Posted - 2017.04.30 15:25:20 -
[18] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Because loss is important in Eve.
That's a key design goal. If you can lose a ship without blinking, because it will be refunded, then what's the point? Why would you get the shakes? Where's the meaning?
Death is a serious business.
and this is the why more people avoid pvp or any combat than goes leaping full leeroy without worry.
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10914
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Posted - 2017.04.30 16:31:53 -
[19] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Because loss is important in Eve.
That's a key design goal. If you can lose a ship without blinking, because it will be refunded, then what's the point? Why would you get the shakes? Where's the meaning?
Death is a serious business. Yeah. I remember those days. Back before you could simply buy ISK with CCP's blessing to replace whatever you lose.
As for insurance. People actually use it? Inconceivable!
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Ash Beldrulf
0
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Posted - 2017.04.30 22:24:13 -
[20] - Quote
ISD Max Trix wrote:EVE is a game of risk. Ship lost is part of that risk. If CCP fully reimburst you the full cost of your ship, then what is the point of the fight? Where is the risk? Empires in EVE have risen and falled based on risk.
As for the cost, The most important and most Golden of all rules in EVE is this, " Never Fly what you can not afford to lose."
The risk as you put it is the cost of all the modules and implants in the clone. I don't mind losing some ISK but lose more ISK then I can make in a month to one suicide ganker with full insurance on the ship, SUCKS! As a player that has been playing less then 70 days I can not afford to lose much and losing 2 ships in one day in High security space, SUCKS! All I want to see would be a closer pay out 90% of the market value of the ship, no matter what Tech Tier. I am losing money to suicide gankers with the best insurance in the game in High sec. |
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
502
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Posted - 2017.04.30 22:25:51 -
[21] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:EVE is a game of risk. Ship lost is part of that risk. If CCP fully reimburst you the full cost of your ship, then what is the point of the fight? Where is the risk? Empires in EVE have risen and falled based on risk.
As for the cost, The most important and most Golden of all rules in EVE is this, " Never Fly what you can not afford to lose." The risk as you put it is the cost of all the modules and implants in the clone. I don't mind losing some ISK but lose more ISK then I can make in a month to one suicide ganker with full insurance on the ship, SUCKS! As a player that has been playing less then 70 days I can not afford to lose much and losing 2 ships in one day in High security space, SUCKS! All I want to see would be a closer pay out 90% of the market value of the ship, no matter what Tech Tier. I am losing money to suicide gankers with the best insurance in the game in High sec. 1. Suicide gankers get no insurance. Insurance is invalidated by CONCORD. 2. Maybe you shouldn't move more ISK than you can make in a month around then.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Ash Beldrulf
0
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Posted - 2017.04.30 22:40:42 -
[22] - Quote
Dark Lord Trump wrote:Ash Beldrulf wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:EVE is a game of risk. Ship lost is part of that risk. If CCP fully reimburst you the full cost of your ship, then what is the point of the fight? Where is the risk? Empires in EVE have risen and falled based on risk.
As for the cost, The most important and most Golden of all rules in EVE is this, " Never Fly what you can not afford to lose." The risk as you put it is the cost of all the modules and implants in the clone. I don't mind losing some ISK but lose more ISK then I can make in a month to one suicide ganker with full insurance on the ship, SUCKS! As a player that has been playing less then 70 days I can not afford to lose much and losing 2 ships in one day in High security space, SUCKS! All I want to see would be a closer pay out 90% of the market value of the ship, no matter what Tech Tier. I am losing money to suicide gankers with the best insurance in the game in High sec. 1. Suicide gankers get no insurance. Insurance is invalidated by CONCORD. 2. Maybe you shouldn't move more ISK than you can make in a month around then.
1. I was not the suicide gamker, I lost two 2 ships to suicide gankers in High sec. 2. I am trying to make Isk but with then 70 days in the game it is hard.
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Axhind
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
290
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Posted - 2017.05.01 00:31:21 -
[23] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Ash Beldrulf wrote:ISD Max Trix wrote:EVE is a game of risk. Ship lost is part of that risk. If CCP fully reimburst you the full cost of your ship, then what is the point of the fight? Where is the risk? Empires in EVE have risen and falled based on risk.
As for the cost, The most important and most Golden of all rules in EVE is this, " Never Fly what you can not afford to lose." The risk as you put it is the cost of all the modules and implants in the clone. I don't mind losing some ISK but lose more ISK then I can make in a month to one suicide ganker with full insurance on the ship, SUCKS! As a player that has been playing less then 70 days I can not afford to lose much and losing 2 ships in one day in High security space, SUCKS! All I want to see would be a closer pay out 90% of the market value of the ship, no matter what Tech Tier. I am losing money to suicide gankers with the best insurance in the game in High sec. 1. Suicide gankers get no insurance. Insurance is invalidated by CONCORD. 2. Maybe you shouldn't move more ISK than you can make in a month around then. 1. I was not the suicide gamker, I lost two 2 ships to suicide gankers in High sec. 2. I am trying to make Isk but with then 70 days in the game it is hard.
Several people here gave you advice on how to avoid getting ganked. Have you tried any of them? There are plenty of ways to avoid getting ganked but if you expect EVE to become zero impact from loss and inability to adapt you are going to wait for a very long time. Learn from your mistakes and use advice from more experienced players. |
Ash Beldrulf
0
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Posted - 2017.05.01 05:22:46 -
[24] - Quote
While i appreciate everyone replies and suggestion on how I need to change my play style or tips on how to be a target, that has nothing to do with with the in game insurance system. I do want to thank you all for showing me how the forum community works. I should have know better to come to the forum. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
28188
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Posted - 2017.05.01 08:33:58 -
[25] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:While i appreciate everyone replies and suggestion on how I need to change my play style or tips on how to be a target, that has nothing to do with with the in game insurance system. I do want to thank you all for showing me how the forum community works. I should have know better to come to the forum. Actually it does, if you adapt to the game you don't tend to claim on your insurance, hell most of us don't insure our ships at all, because we follow rule #1 of Eve.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
3397
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Posted - 2017.05.01 08:39:34 -
[26] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:While i appreciate everyone replies and suggestion on how I need to change my play style or tips on how to be a target, that has nothing to do with with the in game insurance system. I do want to thank you all for showing me how the forum community works. I should have know better to come to the forum. The whole point of Eve involves that death and loss matter. This was explained several times to you above and why insurance is the way it is. Accordingly, Eve Online has never offered complete insurance for your ships and cargo and never will. We are all part of a shared universe and economy and fundamental to enabling that is the idea that loss is permanent and consequential.
Blaming the forums because you don't like the answer isn't very productive or even fair. Eve is the way it is and many players like the game play it offers. Your choice is either to accept and adapt to that game play, or take your leisure time elsewhere and find a game where you cannot lose stuff. Whining that you don't like the insurance system or, more generally, losing your stuff in Eve, is going to be as productive as whining that the sky is blue. It isn't going to change for you.
There are relatively easy ways for you keep your imaginary ships and imaginary assets safe in highsec, even for a new player, but you will have to learn and use them. The game is not going to change for you by buffing insurance so you don't have to worry about loss. Eve is a competitive game and as such isn't for everyone. I sympathize with new players learning what can be a punishing game, but losing stuff is very much a central, if not the central idea of the PvP sandbox game that is Eve Online. That risk of loss and vulnerability to the other players never goes away, and if you are not willing to accept that another player can outmanoeuvre you or capitalize on a mistake of yours and take your stuff, then this might not be the game for you.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1595
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Posted - 2017.05.01 11:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Ash Beldrulf wrote:While i appreciate everyone replies and suggestion on how I need to change my play style or tips on how to be a target, that has nothing to do with with the in game insurance system. I do want to thank you all for showing me how the forum community works. I should have know better to come to the forum. Actually it does, if you adapt to the game you don't tend to claim on your insurance, hell most of us don't insure our ships at all, because we follow rule #1 of Eve. This.In HS usually insurance are a waste of money so I just stopped using them. And if something goes boom, well, it's EVE.
Remove standings and insurance.
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Salvos Rhoska
2850
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Posted - 2017.05.01 11:12:17 -
[28] - Quote
Get rid of insurance.
PvE v PvP
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Old School Exploration
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CODE Licenses
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CODE Special Agent
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
167
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Posted - 2017.05.01 14:40:06 -
[29] - Quote
Insurance is not meant to be your piggy bank. That is PLEX.
Quote:I do want to thank you all for showing me how the forum community works.
The forum community tends to frown on people that come here asking for free isk. The community is also interested in helping those that ask, and this thread is proof of that.
You admitted you are new, stating your problem is going bankrupt, and suggested that the insurance system needs to be tweaked so that you won't go bankrupt.
The community (correctly) pointed out that your problem is actually flying what you can't afford to lose, as well as not taking defensive measures to avoid the gank in the first place (dying an hour later in the same system to the same ganker isn't helping your cause here).
You keep trying to steer the conversation back towards insurance, but insurance isn't the problem, you dying is the problem. |
Cade Windstalker
1494
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Posted - 2017.05.01 15:25:26 -
[30] - Quote
Ash Beldrulf wrote:The risk as you put it is the cost of all the modules and implants in the clone. I don't mind losing some ISK but lose more ISK then I can make in a month to one suicide ganker with full insurance on the ship, SUCKS! As a player that has been playing less then 70 days I can not afford to lose much and losing 2 ships in one day in High security space, SUCKS! All I want to see would be a closer pay out 90% of the market value of the ship, no matter what Tech Tier. I am losing money to suicide gankers with the best insurance in the game in High sec.
Ash Beldrulf wrote:1. I was not the suicide gamker, I lost two 2 ships to suicide gankers in High sec. 2. I am trying to make Isk but with then 70 days in the game it is hard.
1. Welcome to Eve, the universe doesn't owe you anything.
2. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. This means maybe not upgrading to the shiniest thing you can fit out right away if that's going to cost you all of your ISK to do so.
Insurance is there for mitigation, not to make it easy to replace losses. That's one of the reasons you get so much less out of insurance on T2 ships, you're paying a premium for a significant upgrade in performance
Also, looking at your recent losses, the Platinum Insurance more than covers the cost of the hulls you lost on those ships. In fact if you bought at the best price available in High Sec you would come out a million ahead, before the cost of buying the insurance in the first place at least.
Given that I'm really not sure what you're complaining about unless you massively over-paid for the hull and you expect the insurance to somehow take this into account, which would be a ridiculous thing to expect. |
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