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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Detheriel
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:21:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Kerfira The poster is part of an alliance who's made Blob Node-Crash powers into their primary weapon (JV1 anyone?), so any kind of anti-blob weapon (and titans ARE a good one of these) are of.c. going to be attacked (verbally at least) heavily by them.
This is misguided, lag is one of our main complaints with the game and something we hate. I don't know a single goon who wouldn't get rid of lag in a second if it were possible. In any case, lets keep the thread on the topic of Titan discussion.
Quote: I'll compare this to a small alliance who hasn't got capitals, complaining over having their POS' blown up by 20 dreads of another much stronger alliance. It's just on a bigger scale....
But that alliance could pay a mercenary alliance to bring dreads and defeat the enemy that way. Or take down several dreads with nossing battleships. The key point Bane makes is that there is no conceivable counter to a Titan and that is what makes them broken, not the fact they're very powerful. |
Zaolen Ying
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:25:00 -
[62]
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Really informative and raises up some issues which need to be looked at.
However, since i dont have any exp of titan warfare or anything i'll refrain from adding my comments =)
-Z
Originally by: Dark Shikari Normally, strategy is fun, because in an RTS game, you're the commander, and the peons are controlled by you.
But in EVE, you're the peon.
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Mogrin
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:26:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Mogrin on 10/05/2007 16:22:32 These flames about the poster's alliance are hilarious.
"He only wants titans to be killable because BoB uses titans against his fleets!"
NO WAY ARE YOU KIDDING?? Why on earth would anyone want their enemy to be killable?? Obvious bias, ignore the OP. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion |
TrevorReznik
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:27:00 -
[64]
Further, to expand on a point that wasn't really addressed: Jump Bridge capability is also very powerful. Besides allowing a means of entering a hostile system fairly easily, jumpbridging of freighters is possible. This allows for an incredible logistical advantage, as the freighters can be jumpbridged through multiple POS waypoints to their destination, keeping them safe from harm. There is no possible way to stop this from occurring, short of destroying every POS, which still leaves the freighters untouched.
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Merdekka Radaen
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:32:00 -
[65]
Surprisingly well thought-out, full of reasoned arguments and great suggested changes. At once a brilliant example of community concern and a damning report on CCP's woeful balance missteps.
Hopefully this hard work doesn't go unnoticed.
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Vio Geraci
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:32:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mogrin Edited by: Mogrin on 10/05/2007 16:22:32 NO WAY ARE YOU KIDDING?? Why on earth would anyone want their enemy to be killable?? Obvious bias, ignore the OP.
If it's so biased, surely you will have no trouble pointing out some flaws in his arguments. |
Engel Atomic
Gallente Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:33:00 -
[67]
Those posting about how Bein Glorious is a part of Goon Swarm, and thus this immediately invalidates his post, need to re-think their position. It doesn't automagically somehow invalidate everything he's said.
Though, of course, I suppose simply hand-waving and saying 'this post means nothing' is easier than reading what he wrote ( I know, I know, tl;dr ) and trying to determine for yourself how accurate it is. If you don't think he's right, take apart what he said, carefully. Do the research yourself. This is our EVE Online, our game. Either you don't care and this doesn't affect you, and you can keep going about your business; or you do care enough to look into it and see if he has a point.
Don't say 'he's a Goon, this post must be wrong' in a flat blanket statement. I myself am skipping over these without supporting evidence.
I'm not saying he's right myself; I am also not saying he's necessarily wrong.
Also, while RedSwarm themselves haven't shown proof of a Titan (yet), there are quite a few of their allies who -do- have Titans. Strong Allies. So it doesn't make sense to make a post like this just -because- their immediate enemy has a few Titans. ______________________________________ Limited Understanding. I'm only human. |
smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:33:00 -
[68]
A very useful and informative thread, judging by the parts i read in depth and the parts I skimmed over. Will link this to the rest of my lot for info.
To the flamers:
This dude has put in a hell of a lot of work on this. Please 1) read through the post and 2) be polite in your responses. It's not often that somebody puts this amount of effort into something in EvE and a little respect is the least you could show. It's ****ing me off how many kiddies have shown up in this thread already.
Generally:
I have not experienced the fun of being destroyed by a Titan's superweapon. However, as the OP points out, a weapon that kills pretty much everything that is close enough to hurt the ship carrying it is overpowered. Massively overpowered.
Titans need a bigger support role and a much, much smaller offensive role.
sgb
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:33:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Vio Geraci
Originally by: Mogrin Edited by: Mogrin on 10/05/2007 16:22:32 NO WAY ARE YOU KIDDING?? Why on earth would anyone want their enemy to be killable?? Obvious bias, ignore the OP.
If it's so biased, surely you will have no trouble pointing out some flaws in his arguments.
I think that was sarcasm, btw.
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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Alias11
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:34:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Alias11 on 10/05/2007 16:33:55 Phrixus Zephyr you have made a powerful enemy
Originally by: Vio Geraci
Originally by: Mogrin Edited by: Mogrin on 10/05/2007 16:22:32 NO WAY ARE YOU KIDDING?? Why on earth would anyone want their enemy to be killable?? Obvious bias, ignore the OP.
If it's so biased, surely you will have no trouble pointing out some flaws in his arguments.
Your sarcasm detector is as broken as a titan
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:36:00 -
[71]
Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here:
Linkage
You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left...
DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Sugarphobia
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:42:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Sugarphobia on 10/05/2007 16:38:04 People who are unwilling to discuss game mechanics and only wish to import the politics of the game into a game mechanics forum need to check themselves out of this thread immediately. Unless you have a valid argument against the OP aside from "GOONIES DONT HAVE A TITAN THATS WHY THEY DONT LIKE THEM LOL OMG", I hope you reconsider posting in this subforum ever again, or at the very least I hope a moderator deletes your comment for being off-topic.
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Dibujante
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:45:00 -
[73]
Originally by: LUKEC
Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse)
Do you think you could justify that statement? After all, attempting to divide the infinite survivability by the cost of the titan seems to net an infinite survivability-to-cost ratio.
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Xalorn
Butcherbirds
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:45:00 -
[74]
Originally by: LUKEC deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view.
Interesting. Are you an official BoB spokesperson?
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Engel Atomic
Gallente Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here:
Linkage
You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left...
DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view.
Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse)
I don't know why I'm rising to the bait. I really, really don't.
Remedial did not -leave-. He stepped down and turned over to The Mittani. The Goons are at a high point, Remedial has a life now, it only made sense.
Also, if they've started building a Titan, they're not going to just suddenly omgstop now that Remedial's not director anymore. That'd be nothing short of ********. ______________________________________ Limited Understanding. I'm only human. |
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:49:00 -
[76]
oh **** :words:
i agree with the OP nontheless.
Demon Womb 0.0 NPCing corp. 0.0 access for 20% corp tax! Join now!
when in doubt, |
Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:57:00 -
[77]
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here:
Linkage
You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left...
DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view.
Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse)
Oh look, it's one of the DICE smack brigade. (If you've ever run into DICE and gotten into a stalemate, you'll know what i mean)
Care to argue any points that would refute his claim, or are you just going to blindly smack?
I don't see what them building a titan has got to do with anything, of course they're going to build Titans. Who wouldn't? What surprises me more is that there is never any BoB publicly saying how broken a concept they are, regardless of how many fights Titans take away from your average BoB grunt. Maybe they're too scared to voice an opinion. Or is "winning, no matter how boring" really a mantra of yours? (Yes i have been on the side of a Titan, and it was so dull i logged off)
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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krystal eyes
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Posted - 2007.05.10 16:59:00 -
[78]
Edited by: krystal eyes on 10/05/2007 17:00:29 Edited by: krystal eyes on 10/05/2007 16:55:45
Originally by: LUKEC
You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left...
Remedial is getting married and sitting the Bar. He doesn't have time to herd space-kittens anymore. He's hardly running away in shame. Secondly, yes we would like to see titans made into fair ships. Regardless of who owns them.
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Miho Aokii
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:04:00 -
[79]
Originally by: LUKEC
Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse)
Is this why BoB has only been able to kill Titans while they were offline?
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:05:00 -
[80]
Good post Bane. I agree with most of what your saying. I really think CCP need to acknowledge that a problem exists.
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:06:00 -
[81]
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here:
Linkage
You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left...
DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view.
Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse)
Why don't you go dis-honour some more 1v1s
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:15:00 -
[82]
goooo shinra, gooooo shinra
we got the s, h, i, n, r, a...weeeee!
On-topic, great post.
Originally by: welsh wizard You might not be able to kill anything but you can sure as hell ignore it and go about your business
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SerialTurd
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:16:00 -
[83]
Wow... great post... You think it's a problem now. Wait till every alliance and their mother has multiple titans. It will happen... sooner or later. Just like when carriers and dreads were introduced. Rare back then but now any descent sized alliance has many.
When that day comes and everyone has titans... battle will either be A) non-existant as no one is dumb enough to jump into a system with multiple titans or B) will on be between capital ships. Anything smaller will be pointless.
Great post. Agree with you 100%
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Trzzbk
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:30:00 -
[84]
Originally by: SerialTurd B) will on be between capital ships. Anything smaller will be pointless.
This is what scares me the most. Captial-Ships Online wouldn't be very fun at all.
Plus, when the number of Titans reaches critial mass, even cap ships will be vulnerable.
--------- Hurr. |
Oedus Caro
Caldari Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:30:00 -
[85]
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter omfg this is long one
LOL
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Ansol
Gallente Madhatters Inc. Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:32:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Ansol on 10/05/2007 17:31:12 You provided a well-thought argument that, as far as I can tell (being detached from current EVE politics/wars/blahblahblahblah), is without bias.
I hope your work does not go to waste on deaf ears and that CCP will (at the very least) seriously consider your arguments.
I've seen a lot of, "balancing titans/otherships/littleshipsthatdon'tactuallymatter" threads, and none of the actual balances are consistent with what CCP seems to implement, or what anyone should implement if they want a balanced game.
Kudos, mate, and good luck.
The dead remember our silence, The dead remember our indifference. |
Bozse
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:33:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Xiao Up
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Bein Glorious Allow me to throw out this little number that people (me) throw out on the forums from time to time. It assumes Energy Management V and Energy Systems Operation V:
027 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 5062.5 => 4050.0 028 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 4050.0 => 3240.0 029 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 3240.0 => 2073.6 030 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 2073.6 => 1327.1 031 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1327.1 => 849.35 032 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 849.35 => 543.58 033 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 543.58 => 347.89 034 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 347.89 => 234.83 035 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 234.83 => 158.51 036 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 158.51 => 106.99 037 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 106.99 => 72.22 038 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 72.22 => 48.75 039 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 48.75 => 32.91 040 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 32.91 => 22.21 041 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 22.21 => 14.99 seconds
Did you happen to forget about a little thing called the Stacking Nerf?
Eh, I think the stacking nerf might be applied there, as it looks like that came out of quickfit or something.
But... You've just doubled the price of your titan by adding those mods. As if 50 billion wasn't enough, now somehow you need another 30 billion worth of cap mods?
There is no stacking nerf, and try more like 100b in mods alone.
btw. anyone that can post the short version of the OP.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE is designed to be a dark and harsh world
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:42:00 -
[88]
I think those saying "gswarm doesnt have a titan thus are complaining" really need to actually read the thread. Its long, its complicated, but its understandable even by a newbie (hint: ask questions!).
The problem with the solution of 'get a titan' is explained at the start. Bob have, perhaps 3 titans. Maybe 4. The 'alliance' have 3 I think, (2 for D2, and 1 for AAA).
The problem is one of fun, and ability for non cap ships participating. If all battles are cap ship only, the funs going to wear off real-damn-quick for most players. Furthermore the nature of cap ship manufacture means that once one alliance owns all of 0.0, a verry real outcome of this war, there is almost no hope for rebelion since that mega alliance can control completely cap ship production.
Eves fun has always been in a varied and thoughtful fleet twisting and tweaking various strategies to get the upper hand. In this scenario of caps only, you can predetermine victory by counting each sides capship and seeing whos got the biggest number. Might as well play a web browser game.
The titan has many good uses, and perhaps CCP might not introduce ALL those nerfs. But in the current scenario, neither sides going to be having much fun if the only ship that makes sense are dreads , carriers and a tiny handful of players whos fun revolves once an hour hitting an "i win" button.
Times running short before the current war gets really damn haywire. Give non capship pilots a chance to play the game! ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
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James 315
Yet Another CAOD-Inspired 1-Man Alt Corp
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:43:00 -
[89]
Sorry folks, that's pretty much it, show's over. Bein Glorious has thoroughly wtfpwned the titan apologists' every argument in that massive post(s). No one can seriously argue for the status quo at this point, other than "but BoB NEEDS the titans!"
At this point, it's just a matter of how heavy the upcoming nerfs will be.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.10 17:44:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here:
Linkage
You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left...
DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view.
Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse)
Why don't you go dis-honour some more 1v1s
Busy getting mails you never will.
Or rephrased:
I had 1vs1 with d2, junior. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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