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Salvos Rhoska
2881
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Posted - 2017.05.04 14:30:22 -
[31] - Quote
Scialt wrote:First of all, you have to understand that STUFF is not an isk faucet. Isk sinks are those where isk permanently leaves the game (instead of going to another player). I know what isk faucets/sinks are.
Are you deliberately trying to be patronizing?
PvE v PvP
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Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
614
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Posted - 2017.05.04 14:39:16 -
[32] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month. It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan. More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs. As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees. Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. Shaetads for CSM!
It always works don't it, find a group to blame, it's illegals, it's those damn signoids, blah, blah, always bring that one golden hate bullet and blame carebear, seriously look around you and take the hate goggles off for a moment;
We have:
EC and Citadels being built in many corners of eve.
Cap ships don't seem to be a problem to build by anyone, nobody complaining that they are too expensive, they get printed out quick enough.
Flying around New Eden I assure you people are sporting the latest in tier ships.
Blaming one group is just plain short sighted, if there's a problem in the economy it has many factors and placing blame upon one group is why we have our problems in RL too, stop with the "it's carebears" because anything as complex as an economy has many things that can make it stagnant. |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
475
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Posted - 2017.05.04 14:48:30 -
[33] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month. It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan. More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs. As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees. Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. Shaetads for CSM! It always works don't it, find a group to blame, it's illegals, it's those damn signoids, blah, blah, always bring that one golden hate bullet and blame carebear, seriously look around you and take the hate goggles off for a moment; We have: EC and Citadels being built in many corners of eve. Cap ships don't seem to be a problem to build by anyone, nobody complaining that they are too expensive, they get printed out quick enough. Flying around New Eden I assure you people are sporting the latest in tier ships. Blaming one group is just plain short sighted, if there's a problem in the economy it has many factors and placing blame upon one group is why we have our problems in RL too, stop with the "it's carebears" because anything as complex as an economy has many things that can make it stagnant.
Now, now... Everyone blames the carebears. Even carebears blame the carebears. We do it because it's trendy and we must conform to trends.
Such is the will of BoB!
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Zanar Skwigelf
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
187
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Posted - 2017.05.04 14:58:36 -
[34] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: What is NS doing with that enormous isk income that deflation can (according to Teckos) occur concurrently?
Building Supers and Titans.
Building Citadels, ECs, and getting ready for Refineries.
Building rigs for Citadels and ECs. The t1 XL rigs are still tens of billions of isk, and it is far more time efficient to rat up the isk and buy out the Jita supply than to salvage your own wrecks.
I might be confusing terms here, but I think we are mixing up the money supply that has been flat since Citadel release (except the sudden jump and decline with alphas) and actual sinks and faucets in the game. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6686
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Posted - 2017.05.04 15:31:59 -
[35] - Quote
Blue loot is, btw, an isk faucet. Just an indirect one. You get the loot, you sell it to an NPC, isk enters the game.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Jordan Rin
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.05.04 16:07:57 -
[36] - Quote
Weird thing happened here.
See below. |
Jordan Rin
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2017.05.04 16:09:09 -
[37] - Quote
[quote=Shae Tadaruwa] Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. /quote]
Shae, you have succeeded!
I am not an "elite" of anything, but I do not care about PvP at all. So I guess I fit your definition of carebear.
My annual subscription will expire soon (on my main) and I will not be renewing. Because of you and likes of you!
Never cared about isk, just wanted some fun with spaceships.
You are one step closer to making Eve great again. Keep up the good work! |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
505
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Posted - 2017.05.04 16:18:45 -
[38] - Quote
Nardos Tatio wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month. It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan. More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs. As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees. Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. Shaetads for CSM! I rather see a forest cut down then have to deal with ONE wolf...... Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017...... Time for a change..... You accept PvP when you click undock. If you have an issue with that, Singularity is open for you.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6455
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Posted - 2017.05.04 16:29:47 -
[39] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:What is causing deflation? Rorqal and capship proliferation. The nullbears are printing ridiculous amounts of ISK-and ridiculous amounts of materials to turn into capships and other things. Have you noticed how PL has taken to dreadbombing Rorqals these days? Even dreads used to be a pretty big deal. Not so much any more. Teckos: Do you agree with this assessment?
No. "Printing" ISK will result in inflation not deflation....or if you print just enough ISK, neither--i.e. have the money supply grow as fast as the "real" sector.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6455
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Posted - 2017.05.04 16:35:21 -
[40] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Im not an economist, and I only superficially understand the science of it.
Im genuinely interested what is causing deflation in EVE. I may not understand much of the nuances, but Im not stupid either, and recognize it is important for the health of the game.
When I look at the charts, pretty much all I see to understand, is the pronounced/deprecated figures here and there.
Ive myself proposed that "isk sinks are good", but some posts by Teckos in particular have helped me understand there is more at stake.
I havent, and dont know how, to scientifically track the rate of inflation in EVE. If he says its deflating, and that perhaps another metric for measuring it by CCP would be better, I cant argue that either way.
But Id like to know what the extant factors are that are perceived to be causing it. That should be something that would be understandable and demonstrable even to economy plebs like me.
Inflation/deflation are pretty much monetary phenomena. That is when the money supply grows faster than the real sector there is inflation, and when it grows slower there is deflation.
In a general sense inflation usually means the government is "taxing" people's cash holdings and spending that tax. CCP does not in that money creation is largely the result of player actions (ratting, missions, etc.) that create ISK de novo. With deflation it is like earning interest on you cash holdings. If this gets too large then spending can collapse and trigger a recession or turn a recession into a depression.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6455
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Posted - 2017.05.04 16:49:41 -
[41] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:lol economists like weather reporters, they don't get fired for being wrong, in fact they shore up their credibility by explaining to ten decimal places what else happened other than what they predicted. Money is a form of rationing. What amazes me is how the economy doesn't grind to a halt with everybody having three of everything, the resources spawn most days and no way is the ship/structure loss covering all that.
The decimal places just show the economists have a sense of humor.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Fish Hunter
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation
41
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Posted - 2017.05.04 17:01:22 -
[42] - Quote
EVE is probably experiencing slight mudflation right now. Everything is overproduced to a significant amount and market prices slowly fall. Meanwhile the rare unique items that you can no longer attain except through players constantly rise in value. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
675
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Posted - 2017.05.04 17:19:59 -
[43] - Quote
Nardos Tatio wrote:
Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017......
Time for a change.....
No, it is not. Go away.
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Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
107
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Posted - 2017.05.04 17:30:29 -
[44] - Quote
removed |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2937
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Posted - 2017.05.04 17:35:12 -
[45] - Quote
for an established character it is pretty easy to make 100m-200m/hr. All that income -> plex prices go up, also unique ship/item prices
massive null empires collecting more moon goo than we can blow up -> long run t2 price deflation tons of mining -> mineral deflation tons of ratting -> meta mod deflation, salvage deflation tons of escalations -> dead space mod deflation tons of pi -> commodity deflation
I almost feel like it makes more sense to say we have material/item inflation,
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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SupaL33tH4x0r Regime
Mariposa Mining Association Intrepid Crossing
4
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Posted - 2017.05.04 19:05:57 -
[46] - Quote
why not, lets just whip the market and everyone clean of items and start from scratch while we're at it |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
515
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Posted - 2017.05.04 20:05:07 -
[47] - Quote
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime wrote:why not, lets just whip the market and everyone clean of items and start from scratch while we're at it That would lose most of the playerbase all at once. Mostly the ones which really didn't care about accumulating wealth at all would stick around, and there aren't too many of those.
A signature :o
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Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
91
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Posted - 2017.05.04 20:13:46 -
[48] - Quote
In a way, seeing the supply of ISK go flat is somewhat good. It means ISK is kept under control for now. Of course, that will likely change since capsuleers are always clever enough to figure out how to turn that around. |
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
1211
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Posted - 2017.05.04 21:01:02 -
[49] - Quote
TL;DR
EVE needs more things to go pop... Not enough popping going on here... EVE is too safe.... EVE is dying(TM)... |
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
1211
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Posted - 2017.05.04 21:02:42 -
[50] - Quote
SupaL33tH4x0r Regime wrote:why not, lets just wipe the market and everyone clean of items and start from scratch while we're at it
You mean invent ISK that's not in the game to buy crap from players who build it with stuff from in the game? Talk about a major new ISK faucet... |
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Verlyn
Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan
94
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Posted - 2017.05.04 21:23:48 -
[51] - Quote
Nardos Tatio wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month. It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan. More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs. As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees. Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. Shaetads for CSM! I rather see a forest cut down then have to deal with ONE wolf...... Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017...... Time for a change.....
Go **** yourself. |
Hal Morsh
Minmatar Confederate
585
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Posted - 2017.05.04 23:33:21 -
[52] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month. It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan. More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs. As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees. Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. Shaetads for CSM!
I saw it as easier isk earning with independent industry groups that don't use market materials to produce, People still need ships. EVE losing ganking would probably be the first step to death.
I also don't know words I've never had to use. At least I've seen superlative before.
Being sapient can drive us mad.
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Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
130
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Posted - 2017.05.05 00:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:Nardos Tatio wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month. It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan. More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs. As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees. Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. Shaetads for CSM! I rather see a forest cut down then have to deal with ONE wolf...... Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017...... Time for a change..... Go **** yourself.
I never thought about the EvE market that way, Verlyn. You've given me a new, unique perspective on the game.
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CMDR-HerpyDerpy Hurishima
Debitum Naturae
54
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Posted - 2017.05.05 02:35:14 -
[54] - Quote
What are isk sinks? .-._.-_.->..>>>p-. |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1681
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Posted - 2017.05.05 02:52:50 -
[55] - Quote
Jordan Rin wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again.
Shae, you have succeeded! I am not an "elite" of anything, but I do not care about PvP at all. So I guess I fit your definition of carebear. My annual subscription will expire soon (on my main) and I will not be renewing. Because of you and likes of you! Never cared about isk, just wanted some fun with spaceships. You are one step closer to making Eve great again. Keep up the good work! What does believing in pvp have to do with being a Carebear?
Plenty of PVEers are not Carebears and plenty of PVPers are. PVE v PVP isn't what defines a Carebear.
However take responsibility for your decision to not continue your subscription. That's great for you and everyone's right to make that choice. Nothing to be ashamed of and no ones else should really claim success for that. I don't even know who you are, so I feel a bit unworthy of the praise. However, not wanting to disappoint, thanks anyway.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
1274
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Posted - 2017.05.05 04:10:40 -
[56] - Quote
Nardos Tatio wrote:Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017......
You explicitly and willingly consent to pvp engagements when you click 'undock'.
Why do people not understand this one, small, simple thing.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Jenn aSide
shinigami miners ChaosTheory.
15799
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Posted - 2017.05.05 04:44:43 -
[57] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Nardos Tatio wrote:Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017...... You explicitly and willingly consent to pvp engagements when you click 'undock'. Why do people not understand this one, small, simple thing.
They do understand it, they don't like it and think if they complain enough it will change. The last 14 years of evidence that it won't means zero to folks like that.
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Salvos Rhoska
2889
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Posted - 2017.05.05 06:30:07 -
[58] - Quote
Havent Upwell structures had a significant impact on NPC taxes/fees as an isk sink?
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
741
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Posted - 2017.05.05 06:47:24 -
[59] - Quote
Dark Lord Trump wrote:Nardos Tatio wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:One thing that keeps popping up in various sub-fora is the notion that we need more ISK sinks. I find this amazing in that it suggests that the people making these posts are not looking at the economic reports that CCP Quant publishes each month. It's all part of the Carebear elite's plan. More ISK sinks = less ISK in people's wallets = more people whining when they get blown up = more calls for gank nerfs. As with all Carebear plans, the people it hurts the most are themselves, but they can't see the forest for the trees. Drain the swamp of the Carebear elite's and make EVE great again. Shaetads for CSM! I rather see a forest cut down then have to deal with ONE wolf...... Unwilling and unaccepted PVP is not part of a modern mmog.....it was 14 years ago but we have 2017...... Time for a change..... You accept PvP when you click undock. If you have an issue with that, Singularity is open for you.
I see the indoctrination programme is still in full swing....
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Salvos Rhoska
2891
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Posted - 2017.05.05 06:49:49 -
[60] - Quote
Cool it with the "Vote for me" trashposts.
CSM elections came and went. You missed the boat.
Stick to topic.
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