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Megadon
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:28:00 -
[1]
I started this game back in the day when the Amarr kicked some butt and a torp could kill and did kill everything in sight.
Then we had some much needed balance added to the game, some intelligence added to the AI and the whole concept of signature size. In the process, Amarr got nerfed to oblivion which as we all know, the nerf bat makes its rounds from time to time, that is just the nature of TomB.
So here I am years later, 30 million sp's later, and I'm wondering when Amarr won't suck again.
It seems Gallente have risen to the top of the pvp heap, Caldari (as always) are at the top of the pve heap and Minmatar finally got some lovin' and have some great pvp ships while Amarr are still the suck.
The only reason I'm posting this is that I heard a rumor that the dev's were going to give Amarr some much needed attention and wanted to know if this was true. So... has anyone heard anything or any dev want to comment?
Not really a whine, just wanted to know if any amarr tweaks were afoot any time soon
Thank you brothers
...
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sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.11 00:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that. so the race is'nt as good in areas that other races are so what? amarr are ok even with all the whining I can fly both amaar and gallenteships and I find zero wrong with amarr in general.
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Jack MacGyver
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Posted - 2007.05.11 02:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that. so the race is'nt as good in areas that other races are so what? amarr are ok even with all the whining I can fly both amaar and gallenteships and I find zero wrong with amarr in general.
Yes Amarr is not gimped... cause they got the curse... the mighty curse with heavy armor (tank) and laser turrets (gank)...
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New Aru
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Posted - 2007.05.11 09:40:00 -
[4]
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that.
Wait, Curse is an Amarr ship? All this time I'd thought it was a Gallente ship, what with using our weapon systems and slot layout.
Next you'll be telling me the Ares isn't a tech-II shuttle.
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Lynae
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.11 09:54:00 -
[5]
Soon(tm). ___
Originally by: Dark Shikari They're protected by shuttles carrying Templars, Amarr fighter drones used by carriers, but their tanks aren't that strong.
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Angelica Krem
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Posted - 2007.05.11 09:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that. so the race is'nt as good in areas that other races are so what? amarr are ok even with all the whining I can fly both amaar and gallenteships and I find zero wrong with amarr in general.
So one ship, one single ship that does not follow the same bonus allotment as other amarr ships, means that Amarr are fine?
Why dont you compare the roles for the battleships? As an amarr there is rarely a reason to fly the armageddon over the Apocalypse as the two seem to serve the same role. At the same time the Dominix and Megathron have totally different roles, same with the scorpion vs raven, tempest vs typhoon.
Oh and the Abbadon? Does it serve a different role than the apocalypse? Isnt it just the third tier of the same laser gun boats? I know that the amarr think "bigger = better" and I agree that it should reflect in the balance of their ships, but creating specific roles and some personality shouldnt be sacrificed.
The curse doesnt have the all encompassing "laser capacitor needs reduced" bonus that all othe amarr ships seem to have, this like Dark Shikari pointed out somewhere, actually makes the ship fun.
So one of the amarr bonuses is always used to make their primary weapon choice usefull, it's not a bonus it's a fix.
Look at the Astarte vs Absolution, one bonus out of four on the absoloution is simply so it can shoot lasers while the Astarte has 4 bonuses that make the ship unique.
Heck take a look at all the common amar ships, they all contain this bonus that is really a fix.
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Tonkin
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.11 09:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that. so the race is'nt as good in areas that other races are so what? amarr are ok even with all the whining I can fly both amaar and gallenteships and I find zero wrong with amarr in general.
like you said chasing
it wasnt fighting ya it was running
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.05.12 01:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Angelica Krem The curse doesnt have the all encompassing "laser capacitor needs reduced" bonus that all othe amarr ships seem to have, this like Dark Shikari pointed out somewhere, actually makes the ship fun.
Yup. Its a wasted bonus; just lower all laser cap use by 35% and replace the bonus on all Amarr ships with something useful.
--23 Member--
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Crimsonjade
Zer0 ToLeRaNcE Terror In The System
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Posted - 2007.05.12 01:52:00 -
[9]
joo meen like later later, or like right now right now?
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Sieges
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Posted - 2007.05.12 03:22:00 -
[10]
I like Amarr ships. Especially the Geddon. ----------- We need a way to Repackage Rigged Ships. |
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.05.12 03:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that...
That curse will need to run away just a wee bit faster, too, when they nerf NOS
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jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.12 03:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that...
That curse will need to run away just a wee bit faster, too, when they nerf NOS
Somebody got owned by a curse lately?
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.05.12 03:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: jilahed
Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that...
That curse will need to run away just a wee bit faster, too, when they nerf NOS
Somebody got owned by a curse lately?
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jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.12 04:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: New Aru
Originally by: sableye Edited by: sableye on 11/05/2007 00:39:04 there's nothing at all wrong with amarr, the curse I was chaising last night is testament to that.
Wait, Curse is an Amarr ship? All this time I'd thought it was a Gallente ship, what with using our weapon systems and slot layout.
Next you'll be telling me the Ares isn't a tech-II shuttle.
This stupid arguments comes up everytime. First the curse does not have a gallente slot layout. Lachesis hat 7 meds and 3 lows in contrast to curse with 6 meds and 4 lows. The fact that it has a lot of meds for an amarr ship is explained by the fact that it is a recon cruiser, ewar specced ya know?
Also look at its bonuses. It has the TD bonus which is amarr. And what really makes people mad about the curse is the 2 nos bonuses. Those are clearly amarr, just look at Bhaalgorn/Cruor etc. So please make your homework before posting such crap.
The only thing that is gallente about it is the fact is has drones as primary weapon. So what? Is rokh a gallente ship? Or harpy? Is lachesis caldari because it has lots of mids, few lows and missiles as primary weapon? just lol.
Drones have always been used by all races and only because there is one great ship that is not gallente you don't have to try to make it gallente. It's just stupid. Rant finished.
That said if they reduce overall laser cap usage and give us a real second bonus on our ships we'll be quite fine. The Khanid ships can also add some urgently needed flexibility, when they finally have the guts to make them pure missile boats.
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Commander S3
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Posted - 2007.05.12 05:03:00 -
[15]
As a former Gallentian turned Amarrian, I have alot of experience with both races ships in the tech I category from the smallest Frigate to the largest Battleship and both races Dreads.
1st and foremost, While I turned the Amarrian side, I hold nothing against the Gallentian ships, I just prefer lasers to having to carry around a cargo hold full of Ammo.
The Amarrians have 3 distinct advantages.
1. Virtually unlimited ammo, the exception is of course tech II ammo which it would be nice if the crystals had some sort of Estimated shots left, not just burn out unexpectedly.
2. Fast range switching in combat situations, be that PVP or PVE. Lasers switch in about a seconds time, simply switch to a new crystal. Every other weapons type takes 10 seconds. Plus you would need the ammo to do so which takes up room. In an Amarr ship 8 crystals of various types, takes up alot less space then 50 round X 8 per gun of various ammo types. So somewhat of a double edged benefit there.
3. Most Amarrian ships get a Cap bonus. Giving them a virtually unlimited cap potential.
The Down sides to Ammar ships:
1. Low CPU in general. Meaning less items fit or sacrificing on potential killing power for tank.
2. Neither the Apoc, or the Geddeon can go all tech II Simply something must go due to CPU needs, while Both the Domi and the Mega can go all tech II guns and armor. Trust me I have tried and with out implants or special rigs, its just not possible to do the same to the Geddeon or the Apoc.
3. They all use power, and massive amounts of it. I love my Apoc its well suited to my personality, large cumbersome, but dun let it get off a shot. Problem is it fits 6 Tachs, thats it, no more or else I have to sacrifice tank. So while it has a virtually unlimited cap to rep on for near forever, and can tank like mad, it really only fire or tank not both for a prolonged period of time. The Geddeon, and the Abaddon have the same problem. (BTW I have Amarr BS 5, and full support skills, I needed them for the Dread. LOL)
Conclusion:
Frankly the Bonus's for most Amarrian Ships are just plainly useless, Lasers still use a ton of power, but hit only about half as hard as most other races weapons do. Their one true bonus, virtually unlimited ammo, does'nt extend to tech II.
I would say to make Amarr more balanced do as suggested and just reduce laser cap usage by 25 to 35%, and in its place toss in something like tracking, or close quaters combat bonus IE allow the Amarr the be able to hit things at 0km to their max range, but have the laser blasts disipated by range. Virtually all other races have a unique spin, that gives them a specific edge in PVE & PVP, Amarr really do not. Find something new, like give thier big bad Apoc the ability to deal with small ships as well as large evenly and effectivly, or deal death to those up tight and close NOSers, or some sort of Built in ECCM Bonus. Something new, not drastic, but something that no other race has yet. Something to add a bit of Balance to the game for them.
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.05.12 05:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: jilahed
Also look at its bonuses. It has the TD bonus which is amarr...
Ironic that the TD bonus is ignored by a great many Curse pilots in favor of sensor dampeners...
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jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.12 06:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: jilahed
Also look at its bonuses. It has the TD bonus which is amarr...
Ironic that the TD bonus is ignored by a great many Curse pilots in favor of sensor dampeners...
Quite a bit but then... Before ECM nerf all recons were typically equipped with ecm because it worked just better than their racial ewar. Now we have the same situation just with damps. It's just the point that damps work against all kinds of targets not only against turret users.
Actually i like the idea of fitting different kinds of ewar. I mean the bonus should mean that u have a certain edge when equipping your racial ewar, but recons are ewar boats and not td-only-boats or dampener-only-boats.
On my pilgrim i frequently use Td's, but when i want to go against non turret users i use 2xdamps + ecm burst.
The thing with the curse is of course that many people nano it up and then dampeners are reasonable. It's not my playstyle - i use old-school armor tanked curses.
Still when i am in a gang i will mostly fit damps. When some heavy support warps in i can often damp them long enough for us to gtfo. (and i can't fly lachesis yet ) Td's just don't cut it in that situation.
To sum it up the only problem with the curse i see is if its seriously nanoed and in the hands of a good fast-ship pilot. It's really a bit overdone i guess - but hey don't blame the curse pilots for it. Ask CCP why speed (when it surpasses a certain limit) puts you into god-mode.
Just bring Td's and Target Painters (poor, poor minnies) inline with damps and ecms (no idea how to do that) and people will have an incentive to fit them again. Up to now turret users have to fear e-war the most. Let's make some ewar against missiles and drones - that'd be nice i guess.
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Misanth
X-Fire
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Posted - 2007.05.12 10:08:00 -
[18]
Np, a couple of more million sp and I'll start to train Gallente. Absolution is nice support for my Caldari alt in missions, as well as nice in gangs, but for any kind of soloing we're screwed. And as we use drones in alot of our ships and Gallente as well are armor tanked, and there's some benefit of having nice gunnery skill even as Gallente.. I just suggest all Amarr pilots to dual-race. It'll take you 2years+ to be effective (pre-capitals) but it'll make you quite versatile and you can still enjoy Amarr.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.12 10:16:00 -
[19]
I handle amarr(not that way you pervs) daily, and i like 'em. For various reasons. Mainly the beams...ooh the beams...pretty beams...though i like projectiles too..TUDUDUM!!...hihi...anyway!
My only wish is, that if something DOES get changed, don't take anything out.
In other words, don't change cap recharge bonus to some other bonus etc. That ticks me off. I've got my ships fitted with these bonuses in mind and if they suddenly change, well, pooie!
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jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.12 18:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
In other words, don't change cap recharge bonus to some other bonus etc. That ticks me off. I've got my ships fitted with these bonuses in mind and if they suddenly change, well, pooie!
Are you talking about the vengeance? To my knowledge this is the only amarr ship that gets a cap recharge rate bonus. If you are talking about the laser cap usage bonus, well many people suggest the idea that laser cap usage would be reduced significantly (possibly full 50% - would be reasonable imo). So in that case your fittings would work just the same as before. Only you had some nice second or fourth bonus on most ships which could give them their own edge.
On a rather personal note: Beams suck. Pulses 4tw!
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.12 19:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: jilahed Are you talking about the vengeance? To my knowledge this is the only amarr ship that gets a cap recharge rate bonus. If you are talking about the laser cap usage bonus, well many people suggest the idea that laser cap usage would be reduced significantly (possibly full 50% - would be reasonable imo). So in that case your fittings would work just the same as before. Only you had some nice second or fourth bonus on most ships which could give them their own edge.
On a rather personal note: Beams suck. Pulses 4tw!
Yeah, was talking more of the laser turret cap use, which ofcourse could be removed if they did that thingy you said. Touch the vengeance bonus and die
Anyhoop, i think they'll do something nice, as long as they don't go taking stuff away(in an overall sense that is).
Oh and...pulses are great but beams make you feel like a man...lier wetsuited guy who sits in brown goo
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Kiviar
Caldari Dirty Sanchez Ltd
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Posted - 2007.05.12 21:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Yup. Its a wasted bonus; just lower all laser cap use by 35% and replace the bonus on all Amarr ships with something useful.
That would make the problem worse. At -40% to -50% cap use lasers become very useable. At that point they only use slightly more cap than hybrids, but also do more damage. What you are suggesting is tantamount to increasing laser cap use, and believe me they do not need to take up more cap.
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Tempest Kane
Amarr Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.12 21:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Commander S3
3. Most Amarrian ships get a Cap bonus. Giving them a virtually unlimited cap potential.
Do you even fly amarr? Cap is the biggest problem we have, the lack of it. Amarr are supposed to be cap boats, on paper they are, in reality even CCP knows they are not.
Give amarr some much needed attention please.
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Olixia Castitatis
Gallente Svefn-G-Englar
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Posted - 2007.05.12 21:52:00 -
[24]
Do a Cap Booster amount bonus. -----------------------
<Sig goes here> |
jilahed
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Posted - 2007.05.12 23:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: jilahed on 12/05/2007 23:05:10
Originally by: Olixia Castitatis Do a Cap Booster amount bonus.
Sorry that's the worst idea i ever heard of. Where would be the benefit? Amarr ships don't have problems because their cargo holds are so small. (we only need very little space for ammo) The problem is many ships can't even fit an injector to use such charges because they lack med slots. This is especially a problem with prophecy and geddon. On smaller ships injectors are rather unusual. (because they have mostly number of meds <=3 for all races)
Of course in gangs you don't need to tackle etc so you can fit an injector. But how often does it even happen that you lose a fight where a few cap charges more had saved your life? This would only make sense with dual injectors, but well when you've got problems to fit only one...
Have you even ever flown an amarr ship? I can't believe it because this proposal is totally half-baked so to say.
Edit: Just figured you might mean some kind of "boosted cap per charge" bonus. That's much better but still only helpful on apoc/abaddon/harbinger and we have so much more ships.
Also my experience tells me that you are quite fine cap-wise if you do have an injector(except maybe abbadon gank) and are not under heavy nossage. But then such a bonus is going to do nothing. A myrmi with nos + neuts can drain my harbi cap no matter if i am injected or even dual injected. I can't see your ideas would help a bit on that one for example.
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Megadon
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.12 23:47:00 -
[26]
Ya for a race that has cap bonuses, all the ships have cap problems or can't fit an injector with a decent fitting.
Go figure
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.05.13 13:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 13/05/2007 13:08:33 Injector just ain't an amarr thing, much like shield thingies.
We just don't...get them. "You mean, you do stuff...to the capacitor? While fighting?! WHAT?! Recharge shields?! GEt the *** out of here!"
Even if they put an extra midslot in all to give us an edge with the injector..well..we wouldn't use it
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Redback911
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Posted - 2007.05.13 13:54:00 -
[28]
Remove laser bonus and give all amarr ships 50% more cap and a new bonus. Make Amarr good at what theyre supposed to be good at.
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