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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3157
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 21:31:32 -
[1] - Quote
With CEP statement of Dragonaurs involvement in spreading of Kyonoke infection inside Caldari State borders, and the dominant amount of Dragonaur personnel on service on my vessels, the following measures will be taken.
1) All Dragonaur crewmembers in service on my vessels, that are flying under the banner of Caldari State, State Protectorate and Caldari Militia Coalition, are to be immediately discharged from the service.
2) Their unfinished service terms will be paid in full and compensated according to their contracts with compensation for premature contract termination by the employer.
3) No Dragonaur-affiliated personnel will be hired as crewmembers on my vessels until further notice.
Effective from now, 04.05.YC119.
D. Kim, Strike Cmdr. State Protectorate Caldari State
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
144
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 21:34:45 -
[2] - Quote
That-¦s very reasonable of you Ms Kim. |
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
800
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 21:43:40 -
[3] - Quote
I disagree with this decision. The allegation of Dragonaur involvement is obviously planted by Gallentean or Minmatar intelligence agencies or by traitors within the State. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3375
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 21:45:13 -
[4] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:With CEP statement of Dragonaurs involvement in spreading of Kyonoke infection inside Caldari State borders
Just to be clear here, Diana, are you saying your only objection is that they used a biological weapon inside Caldari space? Using it on multiple civilian populations outside the State was perfectly ok for you? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3159
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 21:49:11 -
[5] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:I disagree with this decision. The allegation of Dragonaur involvement is obviously planted by Gallentean or Minmatar intelligence agencies or by traitors within the State. Or they have committed treason. Or it's just FIO attack on Dragonaurs. We don't know much, but I can't take risk and carry potential threat to Caldari State inside my ships. Until those who did that belong or hiding among Dragonaur ranks or just pretend to be Dragonaurs, there will be no Dragonaur on my ship.
I'll let CBT and TD solve it. Meanwhile, I have the State to protect, from foreign and domestic enemies alike.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
9707
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 22:29:45 -
[6] - Quote
Ms. Kim, please report the identity of any known Templis Dragonaur to relevant naval authorities. Per the Chief Executive Panel, those men and women are terrorists, and you have been harboring them.
In this instance, while they are no longer in your service, corrective action is surely needed. Otherwise, you may well have aided and abetted any crimes they have committed in the intervening years.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Dusklit Thistle
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2017.05.04 22:49:21 -
[7] - Quote
... I doubt that any Dragonaurs could tolerate being around me for too long, but I'll keep on the lookout for any attempting to infiltrate my crew pending my departure.
Shady gentleman with a shady plan
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3159
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 22:55:22 -
[8] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Ms. Kim, please report the identity of any known Templis Dragonaur to relevant naval authorities. Per the Chief Executive Panel, those men and women are terrorists, and you have been harboring them. In this instance, while they are no longer in your service, corrective action is surely needed. Otherwise, you may well have aided and abetted any crimes they have committed in the intervening years. I didn't have any criminals on my ships. Besides that, you are in no power to tell military officer how to conduct affairs, dishonorable liar. Know your place.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
9708
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:00:14 -
[9] - Quote
For public consideration;
Let us note for the record that one Diana Kim has now openly stated that Templus Dragonaur were a dominant amount of her crew, that she has knowingly provided them with employment despite CEP affirming their status as terrorists, and that she is now stating that she has no intent to report known terrorists to the Caldari Navy or the Chief Executive Panel, even as the State mourns the deaths of nearly fifteen million in Myrskaa at the hands of a Templis Dragonaur conspiracy.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3159
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:12:03 -
[10] - Quote
For public consideration;
Makoto Priano is an infamous slanderer, who spread lies about Caldari officers. She has been doing it for quite some time. She has also lost her honor when was found to be unable to defend herself after she was caught in spreading public lies on this exact IGS forum.
Further information is available here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3385
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:13:16 -
[11] - Quote
Actually, Makoto, since she's been paying them, they've attacked the State, and money is fungible*, wouldn't that mean she's been materially supporting terrorist activities against the State? In fact, since she's been making money off of their activitesGÇöspecifically, their activities as her crewGÇödoesn't that mean that her ships have effectively been a terrorist front? That opens her up to all sorts of conspiracy and racketeering charges if she doesn't inform the State of the locations of those Dragonaur she knows about.
I mean, speaking as someone who was a corporate officer in Caldari space for a time, and had to deal with potential criminal liability issues, and all.
* - Fungibility basically means that once money enters a common pool, one credit is indistinguishable from another. So if you need 40 ISK for ammo and 60 ISK for fuel, and I give you 40 ISK and Ali gives you 50 ISK, when you hit Jita a week later and buy everything, neither one of us can claim we were only giving you money for gas, because it's impossible to tell, ultimately, whose money went to buy the missiles. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3160
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:23:30 -
[12] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Actually, Makoto, since she's been paying them, they've attacked the State, and money is fungible*, wouldn't that mean she's been materially supporting terrorist activities against the State? No, and only complete idiots could believe in that nonsense.
Please keep your paranoid delusions away from this thread, goon.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3391
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:25:36 -
[13] - Quote
Ah, Diana, welcome to the lovely world of Racketeering in Criminal Organizations laws. You might want to study up on them. |
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
1336
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:26:10 -
[14] - Quote
Tad late to try to distance yourself from the Dragonaur's. Some rats fleet a sinking ship. You're currently tunneling up through the wreckage on the sea bed. Even when you emerge from the disaster, you will still find yourself deep under water. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
9710
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:27:17 -
[15] - Quote
Essentially, Arrendis, yes. Given that she's knowingly provided aid to a terrorist organization, she may very well be complicit in their crimes. I suspect it'd warrant a court martial, were she anything more than an independent contractor.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3160
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:37:43 -
[16] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Essentially, Arrendis, yes. Given that she's knowingly provided aid to a terrorist organization, she may very well be complicit in their crimes. I suspect it'd warrant a court martial, were she anything more than an independent contractor. If it'd be possible, I'd court martial you ages ago.
Luckily, I didn't commit any crimes against Caldari State, both my honor and criminal records are clean, and I am open for any investigation, or to visiting any court martial if they would present any charge against me.
Obviously, barkings (or whatever else you spew out from behind your fence) of such dishonorable liar like you, Makoto, can't and won't be considered as a charge.
Disappear.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1886
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:45:02 -
[17] - Quote
What is worse? Diana Kim knowingly hiring known terrorists or people like me who are guilty of not asking?
On a more serious note;
Congrats for coming to that conclusion Kim. I doubt it was a hard decision for you. |
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Madhatter's Tea House Arx Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:45:35 -
[18] - Quote
I believe a simple question would warrant an answer here: were they known to be Dragonaur members or affiliates while within your employ? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3160
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:52:17 -
[19] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:What is worse? Diana Kim knowingly hiring known terrorists or people like me who are guilty of not asking?
On a more serious note;
Congrats for coming to that conclusion Kim. I doubt it was a hard decision for you. I hire crewmembers and ship personnel, trained for ship combat, not for terrorism.
Terrorism is poor man's war. I need better trained personnel than terrorists. I need professionals. I would never hire incompetent crewmembers.
Neither I ever had an open position of "terrorist" on my ship. Tell me, Ms. Vess, do minmatar ships have terrorist position in crewmembers? Our Caldari ships don't.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Akagi Initiative Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
7531
|
Posted - 2017.05.04 23:53:56 -
[20] - Quote
Yoshitaka Moromuo wrote:I believe a simple question would warrant an answer here: were they known to be Dragonaur members or affiliates while within your employ?
And if the answer to that is 'yes' it means Diana can do nothing more than expel them, since they are only responsible to her for:
1. Things they did prior to being in her employ that they hid from her against the terms of their contract. 2. Things they did whilst in her employee that were against the terms of their contract.
If Diana offered an olive branch to people that she felt were unfairly maligned citizens of the State who she believed deserved a fresh chance then that is between her and her employees and anyone in a position of authority over her.
Given the number of people I know within this community who employ terrorists, criminals and traitors there are damn few who in a position to truly judge her.
For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead
in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a
hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
9711
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 00:00:29 -
[21] - Quote
Tuulinen-haan, do you honestly believe that Kim would employ Dragonaur to rehabilitate them? Or do so unknowing of their political views, or out of anything other than abject support for their politics and actions?
What's more, in this case I'd say it's explicitly relevant as she paints herself as the One True Caldari, was acting against affirmed CEP statements, and is doing the bare minimum to distance herself from a known terrorist organization temporarily.
The Kyonoke crisis could have been avoided had we done more to burn out the rot beforehand, a rot your very statements here would allow to remain, festering.
It's one thing to rehabilitate.
It's another to aid and abet.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1886
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 00:10:41 -
[22] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: I hire crewmembers and ship personnel, trained for ship combat, not for terrorism.
If you hired the later without consideration for the former you wouldn't do so well in combat. Thankfully people can learn more than one thing.
Diana Kim wrote: Terrorism is poor man's war. I need better trained personnel than terrorists. I need professionals. I would never hire incompetent crewmembers.
Being Professional and being a terrorist are not mutually exclusive. There ARE professional terrorists out there after all.
Diana Kim wrote: Neither I ever had an open position of "terrorist" on my ship. Tell me, Ms. Vess, do minmatar ships have terrorist position in crewmembers? Our Caldari ships don't.
If I didn't ask and I knew without them telling me, they weren't that good of terrorists now were they? What kind of role would a terrorist exactly have on a warship anyways? Hmm... I believe I answered your question with another question.
Once again, Congrats on actually doing the right thing to no ones surprise. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3160
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 00:14:10 -
[23] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Given the number of people I know within this community who employ terrorists, criminals and traitors there are damn few who in a position to truly judge her.
As for terrorists:
1) I never had a terror-related positions on my ship and never hired personnel interested primarily in terrorism. There are no and were no terrorists on my ship.
And for the other part:
2) I might or might not hire criminals and traitors for suicide missions. I am considering this. As for now, I don't have criminal/traitor crews. But assembling several as a penal punishment for them to restore their honor in combat is... possible. I will look into it and what I could do. However the idea of running my ship with suboptimal crew doesn't inspire me.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3161
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 00:21:34 -
[24] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote: If you hired the later without consideration for the former you wouldn't do so well in combat. Thankfully people can learn more than one thing.
I never had terrorist position on my ship. If a potential candidate displays interest primarily in terrorism, I cannot offer them any place in my crew.
Deitra Vess wrote: Being Professional and being a terrorist are not mutually exclusive. There ARE professional terrorists out there after all.
There are professional saboteurs and assasins. I'd better hire them than a terrorist. But so far I never had a need for these professionals on my ships.
Deitra Vess wrote: If I didn't ask and I knew without them telling me, they weren't that good of terrorists now were they? What kind of role would a terrorist exactly have on a warship anyways? Hmm... I believe I answered your question with another question.
Well, the ship is sort of closed environment, so they have nobody to terrorize during my combat operation. If they would start terrorize my own crew, I'd just space them that instant.
I really have no idea why would anyone need a terrorist on their ship. I definitely don't need one on mine.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1886
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 00:23:21 -
[25] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Deitra Vess wrote: If you hired the later without consideration for the former you wouldn't do so well in combat. Thankfully people can learn more than one thing.
I never had terrorist position on my ship. If a potential candidate displays interest primarily in terrorism, I cannot offer them any place in my crew. Deitra Vess wrote: Being Professional and being a terrorist are not mutually exclusive. There ARE professional terrorists out there after all.
There are professional saboteurs and assasins. I'd better hire them than a terrorist. But so far I never had a need for these professionals on my ships. Deitra Vess wrote: If I didn't ask and I knew without them telling me, they weren't that good of terrorists now were they? What kind of role would a terrorist exactly have on a warship anyways? Hmm... I believe I answered your question with another question.
Well, the ship is sort of closed environment, so they have nobody to terrorize during my combat operation. If they would start terrorize my own crew, I'd just space them that instant. I really have no idea why would anyone need a terrorist on their ship. I definitely don't need one on mine. Hmm.. Well said. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
305
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 02:09:07 -
[26] - Quote
Nauplius wrote:I disagree with this decision. The allegation of Dragonaur involvement is obviously planted by Gallentean or Minmatar intelligence agencies or by traitors within the State.
Liberals within the State. False flag attack by the liberals to demonise this political group. They carried out a coup against the State Executor , this is just a continuation of the liberal war against the patriots within the State.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3393
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 03:50:19 -
[27] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Given the number of people I know within this community who employ terrorists, criminals and traitors there are damn few who in a position to truly judge her.
There's a considerable difference, Pieter, between saying 'oh my god, Diana, how could you do such a terrible thing?', like just hiring psychopaths is somehow beyond the pale for any of us, and pointing out that someone who has literally advocated genocide on behalf of the State might be a damned hypocrite for knowingly harboring members of an anti-State terrorist organization. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3163
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 04:28:33 -
[28] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Nauplius wrote:I disagree with this decision. The allegation of Dragonaur involvement is obviously planted by Gallentean or Minmatar intelligence agencies or by traitors within the State. Liberals within the State. False flag attack by the liberals to demonise this political group. They carried out a coup against the State Executor , this is just a continuation of the liberal war against the patriots within the State. The accusation is a serious one regardless. For a ship that could be deployed in critical to the State missions any risk of sabotage must be prevented.
Liberals are not enemies of the State. Templis Dragonaurs are not enemies of the Caldari.
But those, who are traitors and cover their treason with name of Liberalism - they are not Liberals, they are the enemies. And those, who spread Kyonoke in State territory, covering under name of Dragonaurs - they are the enemies.
Currently, Templis Dragonaurs represent severe security threat. As soon as this accusation from them will be lifted, or as soon as those of them who did participate in this attack will be neutralized (if it really were them - and we can't really exclude this possibility, knowing their history), then I will resume hiring them to my ships.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Bran Kignol
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 14:03:25 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:Templis Dragonaurs are not enemies of the Caldari.
Meaning that The State is lying to you when saying the opposite ?
Stop being in contradiction with everything you say from start to the end.
Did you ask your crew members their Member's card ID to their terrorist group to be fully aware that you have so many Templis Dragonaurs into your crew ? Was it a prerequisite to be enlisted in your crew ?
If you knew they were from this group then you're at least guilty of tolerating ennemies of the State onboard your ships at worst guilty of collaborating with them against the State or even worst to be part of them.
Templis Dragonaurs are on Caldari terrorist list for decades at least. it has been reaffirmed that they are a terrorist group 6 years ago after they've been tolerated (not taken out of the list) by this traitorous you still support too. Nonetheless, you, better judgement that your own State, decided that they were acceptable onboard your ship ?
Your credibility is near 0.
I definitely think the State should get in charge of your case. |
Tsao Aubbes
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
114
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 18:20:19 -
[30] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Templis Dragonaurs are not enemies of the Caldari. Templis Dragonarus are enemies of the Caldari State.
Tressith Sefira > You don't understand. She IS the awkward.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3164
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 18:50:21 -
[31] - Quote
Lieutenant, you are spreading false facts in the IGS, since the link you provided contradicts your own words. There were no mention of Templis Dragonaurs becoming or being enemies in that publication. There was only saying they are in so-called "terrorist" list.
Your behavior is unacceptable and unbecoming of Caldari Officer.
Visit my office at once.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1110
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 19:23:48 -
[32] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote: Given the number of people I know within this community who employ terrorists, criminals and traitors there are damn few who in a position to truly judge her.
As for terrorists: 1) I never had a terror-related positions on my ship and never hired personnel interested primarily in terrorism. There are no and were no terrorists on my ship.
Hi yes I would like to apply for the terrorist position please and thank you.
You honestly have no clue how terrorism works, do you? You think there are job application forms for terrorists?
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1111
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 19:26:10 -
[33] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Your behavior is unacceptable and unbecoming of Caldari Officer.
Visit my office at once.
When do you think you're going to shake this Navy LARPing phase?
You don't have authority over other people, even in the State's military. You're just a licensed pirate, a lone wolf.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3165
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 19:31:02 -
[34] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote: Hi yes I would like to apply for the terrorist position please and thank you.
Request denied.
Jason Galente wrote: You honestly have no clue how terrorism works, do you? You think there are job application forms for terrorists?
There are applications and documentations for everything and everywhere.
Besides, I know pretty well how terrorism works, but there's no use for it in my operations. As I replied earlier: request denied.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1111
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 19:34:50 -
[35] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Jason Galente wrote: Hi yes I would like to apply for the terrorist position please and thank you.
Request denied. Jason Galente wrote: You honestly have no clue how terrorism works, do you? You think there are job application forms for terrorists?
There are applications and documentations for everything and everywhere. Besides, I know pretty well how terrorism works, but there's no use for it in my operations. As I replied earlier: request denied.
Wait, have you actually found a 'terrorist application form'? If so, I would pay a lot to see it.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3166
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 19:35:54 -
[36] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Jason Galente wrote: Hi yes I would like to apply for the terrorist position please and thank you.
Request denied. Jason Galente wrote: You honestly have no clue how terrorism works, do you? You think there are job application forms for terrorists?
There are applications and documentations for everything and everywhere. Besides, I know pretty well how terrorism works, but there's no use for it in my operations. As I replied earlier: request denied. Wait, have you actually found a 'terrorist application form'? If so, I would pay a lot to see it. I won't hire you. Go away.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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MantelGlobalIndustries
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
50
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 20:14:28 -
[37] - Quote
Lieutenant Aubbes is an officer of the Crimson Serpent Syndicate corporation and as such does not fall under your oversight, and most certainly is not compelled by any authority you wield to submit to any reprimand that you apparently see fit to deliver on your own volition, Commander Kim.
The Lieutenant rightfully pointed out that the Templis Dragonaurs are a terrorist organisation as confirmed by the highest authority in the Caldari State, the Chief Executive Panel, a status that has always applied to such an odious entity responsible for heinous crimes against State and Federal citizen alike.
If you see fit to raise a complaint regarding the conduct of one of my officers or employees under my command, then please raise them with me in a private correspondence rather than resorting to the public forums to have at them without due process.
Edward H. Adams
Commander
Heiian Conglomerate
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3166
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 20:36:01 -
[38] - Quote
MantelGlobalIndustries wrote: The Lieutenant rightfully pointed out that the Templis Dragonaurs are a terrorist organisation as confirmed by the highest authority in the Caldari State, the Chief Executive Panel,
Which doesn't correspond to the claim she did, as being terrorist doesn't equate to being enemy of the State, and such claim put a stain on her honor.
Moreover, they are our terrorists, who fight against the Federation. That makes them enemies of the Federation. You probably should read whom against and what for they stand before making similar claims yourself, General.
MantelGlobalIndustries wrote: a status that has always applied to such an odious entity responsible for heinous crimes against State and Federal citizen alike. Status of terrorist involves only being engaged in terror activity, not a criminal activity, General.
The letter with official complaint will be coming shortly.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
kul Shaishi
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
19
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 20:50:22 -
[39] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:MantelGlobalIndustries wrote: The Lieutenant rightfully pointed out that the Templis Dragonaurs are a terrorist organisation as confirmed by the highest authority in the Caldari State, the Chief Executive Panel,
Which doesn't correspond to the claim she did, as being terrorist doesn't equate to being enemy of the State, and such claim put a stain on her honor. Moreover, they are our terrorists, who fight against the Federation. That makes them enemies of the Federation. You probably should read whom against and what for they stand before making similar claims yourself, General. MantelGlobalIndustries wrote: a status that has always applied to such an odious entity responsible for heinous crimes against State and Federal citizen alike. Status of terrorist involves only being engaged in terror activity, not a criminal activity, General. The letter with official complaint will be coming shortly. Diana Kim You are The definition of a traitor a coward A idiot |
Ria Nieyli
50580
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 21:00:13 -
[40] - Quote
To be branded a terrorist by a state, means that you have engaged in terror acts against that particular state. The Dragonaurs are an officially recognised terrorist organisation by the State. |
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3177
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 21:23:43 -
[41] - Quote
kul Shaishi wrote: Diana Kim You are The definition of a traitor a coward A idiot
The State has many enemies. And when they fail to stop us, they resolve to such pathetic insulting outbursts.
Well, it could just mean that we are doing a good job. It is amusing seeing enemies in such rage and brain meltdown.
Luckily for us, neither of their insults have any sensible background.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Ria Nieyli
50583
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 21:30:36 -
[42] - Quote
You mean like the meltdown you experience when I talk to people about my time in the State Protectorate and you see it? |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3177
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 21:38:39 -
[43] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:You mean like the meltdown you experience when I talk to people about my time in the State Protectorate and you see it? Another enemy spreads lies about Caldari Officer. It is a pity they can't cotribute to the discussion in other way.
Probably they can't cope with the discharge of Dragonaurs from my ship. But whatever evil tonges say, my decision will stand. They are already being discharged and you can't do anything to stop me.
No new hirings will be made until the further notice, as was stated in the initial message.
The State will stand strong. You have no power here.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Ria Nieyli
50584
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 21:46:37 -
[44] - Quote
No, I'm pretty sure I am, in fact a Caldari citizen in good standing with the State, not an enemy. |
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Madhatter's Tea House Arx Alliance
46
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 23:09:27 -
[45] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Lieutenant, you are spreading false facts in the IGS, since the link you provided contradicts your own words. There were no mention of Templis Dragonaurs becoming or being enemies in that publication. There was only saying they are in so-called "terrorist" list. Your behavior is unacceptable and unbecoming of Caldari Officer. Visit my office at once. By definition, if a government recognizes an individual or group as terrorist, they are essentially "enemies of the state" at that point. Per the article:
"'CEP dissolves State Executor position; Provists', The Scope, YC115.07.09" wrote:... The CEP has also reaffirmed the status of the Templis Dragonaurs as terrorists. Though they were never officially removed from the State's list of terrorist organizations, they maintained a close affiliation with the Provists and were increasingly being used in official capacities by the Heth regime. ... Their status on that list was never revoked during Tubis Heth's period of power; it was merely overlooked and, arguably, unenforced. This article, despite it being four years old, is likely the most current statement on the status of the Templis Dragonaurs in the eyes of the Caldari State and the Chief Executive Panel. |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
4456
|
Posted - 2017.05.05 23:21:49 -
[46] - Quote
Quote:There was only saying they are in so-called "terrorist" list.
By this (and I use the word with a sneer, here) "logic", the Guristas aren't enemies of the Caldari STate either, because they are only on the so-called "Pirate" list.
AKA Hambone
Author of The Deathworlders
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3177
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 01:13:25 -
[47] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Quote:There was only saying they are in so-called "terrorist" list. By this (and I use the word with a sneer, here) "logic", the Guristas aren't enemies of the Caldari STate either, because they are only on the so-called "Pirate" list. Piracy is a crime. Terrorism is warfare method.
Next.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Madhatter's Tea House Arx Alliance
47
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 01:27:44 -
[48] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Stitcher wrote:Quote:There was only saying they are in so-called "terrorist" list. By this (and I use the word with a sneer, here) "logic", the Guristas aren't enemies of the Caldari STate either, because they are only on the so-called "Pirate" list. Piracy is a crime. Terrorism is warfare method. Next. Piracy is indeed a crime.
Terrorism, the commission of acts intended to cause disarray, and often targeting civilian or non-combatant targets, can be - and I believe is - considered a war crime.
Arguably, worse than piracy.
|
Nai Arto
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 01:27:51 -
[49] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Stitcher wrote:Quote:There was only saying they are in so-called "terrorist" list. By this (and I use the word with a sneer, here) "logic", the Guristas aren't enemies of the Caldari STate either, because they are only on the so-called "Pirate" list. Piracy is a crime. Terrorism is warfare method. Next.
Sophistry worthy of the "great" gallente philosophers. This is the kind of doublespeak one expects from Scope holonews commentators, not Caldari Officers. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 01:51:21 -
[50] - Quote
Dragonaurs took part on the assault on Caldari Prime , lead the assault and captured the city of Arcurio with minimal casualties, that divison was lead by Heth.
To give such service to your nation , then be placed on a terrorist list , its shameful . Most armoured divisions involved in such an historic and successful action would be honoured by its nation, not criminalised.
We know its down to the liberals , Ishukone , Mens Reppola .
They were strong supporters of Heth ,would of been against Ishukone policies after the fall of Heth. They had to go. |
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3178
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 02:09:01 -
[51] - Quote
Yoshitaka Moromuo wrote:Piracy is indeed a crime.
Terrorism, the commission of acts intended to cause disarray, and often targeting civilian or non-combatant targets, can be - and I believe is - considered a war crime.
Arguably, worse than piracy.
I have no idea who are you and what are you doing in here, but terrorism is not a war crime.
The only "criminal" thing in terrorism is embezzlement of funds on inefficient warfare methods and operations that don't provide any tactical or strategical advances.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3178
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 02:13:54 -
[52] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:Dragonaurs took part on the assault on Caldari Prime , lead the assault and captured the city of Arcurio with minimal casualties, that divison was lead by Heth.
To give such service to your nation , then be placed on a terrorist list , its shameful . Most armoured divisions involved in such an historic and successful action would be honoured by its nation, not criminalised.
We know its down to the liberals , Ishukone , Mens Reppola .
They were strong supporters of Heth ,would of been against Ishukone policies after the fall of Heth. They had to go. They have been discharged with honors, with payment and compensations.
I recognize their merits, but their security with this Kyonoke incident has been comprpmised and in the current situation they represent significant security threat to Caldari State and our military vessels, that we must cope with.
They are still on our side. They don't fight with us and they fight against the Federation. But in the reality of current events their direct participation in the conflict under my command can no longer continue.
I am looking forward for faster revolvement of the current crisis.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1114
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 03:06:24 -
[53] - Quote
Terrorism is not a war crime? You are beyond delusional honestly. I don't know why anyone wastes their time with you. I don't know why I am currently doing that.
You simply have a different version of reality from the rest of us. You're technically psychotic, Diana. Not even using it as a cheap insult, you would fit the medical definition of psychosis. You are out of touch with reality. Please. get yourself some professional assistance. You'd feel less of a need to constantly struggle against literally everyone, and we would all be better off.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3178
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 03:13:46 -
[54] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Terrorism is not a war crime? You are beyond delusional honestly. I don't know why anyone wastes their time with you. I don't know why I am currently doing that.
You simply have a different version of reality from the rest of us. You're technically psychotic, Diana. Not even using it as a cheap insult, you would fit the medical definition of psychosis. You are out of touch with reality. Please. get yourself some professional assistance. You'd feel less of a need to constantly struggle against literally everyone, and we would all be better off. If you would have something to object, you'd bring a law where it is a crime.
You didn't.
Instead, you blew up with another fountain of your typical insults.
Jason Galente. Please leave this media and let adult people talk without your interventions. Find yourself some peace away from us.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1115
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 03:28:52 -
[55] - Quote
Terrorism is a war crime in the State. Being a terrorist in the State, as considered by the State, makes you an enemy of the State. This is the case with every civilized nation in New Eden. Your inexplicable lack of knowledge on this legal subject does not make that any less the case.
I don't see why this would even be fundamentally at odds with your philosophy. Terrorists spread disorder and chaos wherever they go. They also attack State civilians, or permitted guests within the State. Terrorists commit arson, property damage, and murder, all of which are crimes. Again, not acknowledging this at even the most basic level would constitute psychosis. Believing that a terrorist is formally hired professionally like a baker or janitor is also a symptom of your psychosis.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
kul Shaishi
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
22
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 03:33:03 -
[56] - Quote
The irony of this situation is a gallente is defending The state so this is really weird |
Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1116
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 03:39:45 -
[57] - Quote
kul Shaishi wrote:The irony of this situation is a gallente is defending The state so this is really weird
And a Mannar at that. To be frank, it doesn't matter if I'm 'defending' the State. Treating terrorists as human refuse is a universal matter of civilized society, not Gallente vs. Caldari.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3178
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 04:37:10 -
[58] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Terrorism is a war crime in the State. Being a terrorist in the State, as considered by the State, makes you an enemy of the State. This is the case with every civilized nation in New Eden. Your inexplicable lack of knowledge on this legal subject does not make that any less the case. I asked for proof, not for more barking. I'll take it you failed to provide it so we can just discard your assumptions as null and void.
Bye. And have a good jam.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
4459
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 09:06:25 -
[59] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote:Your inexplicable lack of knowledge on this legal subject does not make that any less the case.
Oh, there's nothing inexplicable about it: She's a terrorist.
A wannabe, perhaps, rather than an active one. But she's sure as hell drinking from their water cooler.
AKA Hambone
Author of The Deathworlders
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
164
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 09:21:27 -
[60] - Quote
I find it interesting that he keeps talking about "Civilized Society", and i just wonder where the hell does one exist. Or did exist. In all recorded history. And unrecorded.
Everyone gets their hands dirty. Some only outsource it.
It doesn-¦t make you any cleaner. Nor civilized.
Join Project Transcendence.
Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
|
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3178
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 09:28:33 -
[61] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Jason Galente wrote:Your inexplicable lack of knowledge on this legal subject does not make that any less the case. Oh, there's nothing inexplicable about it: She's a terrorist. A wannabe, perhaps, rather than an active one. But she's sure as hell drinking from their water cooler. Oh, another liar popped his head out just to slander Caldari officers.
Enemies of the State are truly pathetic when all they could do is this.
Obviously, I am not interested in terrorism - saying that for those who could be intrigued by words of this empty blabber. They are just running their long tongues with empty heads against me.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Lasairiona Raske
Raske Holdings
353
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 09:55:12 -
[62] - Quote
Popcorn, anyone?
Are you a devil or an angel
Sent here from heaven or from hell?
Sweet temptress, I'm wrapped in your tangles
Can't find my way out of your spell
|
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
260
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 12:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:I find it interesting that he keeps talking about "Civilized Society", and i just wonder where the hell does one exist. Or did exist. In all recorded history. And unrecorded.
Everyone gets their hands dirty. Some only outsource it.
It doesn-¦t make you any cleaner. Nor civilized.
In the Empire, of course! We are all here are terribly civilized.
((
If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community:
Intergalactic Summit - IC router
Out of Character - channel for discussion of roleplay, live events and lore
))
|
Bran Kignol
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 14:47:21 -
[64] - Quote
I'm very intrigued by all this...
I'm curious to understand, from your point of view, what's the utility to put a group on a terrorist list for a state if this same state doesn't consider it dangerous to itself ?
Could you give us a fully detailed definition, for you (if not the official one), of what is a "terror activity" and the difference with a "criminal activity" ?
Why states (not just Caldari State) declare some group as terrorists ?
How would you consider this same group if they weren't Caldari ?
Why the State is considering them terrorist for so many decades (contrary to sayings that tend to forget that they have never been striken off the terrorist list even during Heth years) and why it has been reaffirmed as such recently (by the full CEP, implying that patriots decided they were dangerous to the State) ?
In State organigram of armed forces, where do you place them ? Are they legal ? If legal why are they on terrorist list ?
Do you have terrorists from other groups in your crew ? Being a terrorist from any group is a prerequisite to join your crew or do you only accept Dragonaurs ? Do you accept also non-terrorists in your crew ? |
Kasuko Merin
Anshar Incorporated Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
24
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 15:09:45 -
[65] - Quote
Bran Kignol wrote:I'm very intrigued by all this...
Who asked you to post this?
Oh, never mind. We all know who asked you to post this.
It was worth it. All of it. Every single second.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3419
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 15:10:35 -
[66] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Piracy is a crime. Terrorism is warfare method.
An illegal method not recognized or protected by any articles of war. There's a marked difference, for example, between irregular/asymmetric warfare, and terrorism.
One of the hallmarks of this is that legitimate asymmetric warfare, the kind that is recognized and acknowledged as legal by the empires and CONCORD, focuses on military targets, with a specific attempt to minimize civilian casualties are required in order to avoid charges of war crimes.
Terrorism, on the other hand, involves specifically targeting civilian populations in order to foment and provoke (guess what!) terror. Civilian populations are targeted preferentially over military targets because the objective is to undermine the trust the population has in their government to protect them and keep them safe.
It is, expressly and specifically a war crime.
Note that last word there, Diana: war crime.
In this instance, the government they were undermining would be the one that declared them terrorists, ie: the State.
War crimes. Against the State. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3419
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 15:14:04 -
[67] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:I find it interesting that he keeps talking about "Civilized Society"
Well, since the word 'civilization' itself actually just refers to established cities and agriculture, maybe you should have a clue that 'civilized society' is pretty much any society that maintains sufficient population densitiesGÇöexpressly because in order to do so, the inhabitants must behave in a 'civilized' manner toward one another.
Whoever thinks 'civilized' means 'polite' needs to see a doctor about their cranial-rectal inversion. |
kul Shaishi
Yurai-Tenshin Zaibatsu
24
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 15:15:19 -
[68] - Quote
Arrendis You're a member of goonswarm why don't you to Declare war on Kim and station camp |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3419
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 15:15:38 -
[69] - Quote
Kasuko Merin wrote:Bran Kignol wrote:I'm very intrigued by all this...
Who asked you to post this? Oh, never mind. We all know who asked you to post this.
Who the hel are you to question why anyone posts anything on the IGS? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3421
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 15:17:12 -
[70] - Quote
kul Shaishi wrote:Arrendis You're a member of goonswarm why don't you to Declare war on Kim and station camp
A)She operates in lowsec. Why would I need to declare war? B)We have no interest in attacking CalMil at this time. C)If this changes after the meeting of the Directorate in 3 hours, I promise, you'll be the last to know. |
|
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3737
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 16:21:12 -
[71] - Quote
Bran Kignol wrote:I'm very intrigued by all this...
I'm curious to understand, from your point of view, what's the utility to put a group on a terrorist list for a state if this same state doesn't consider it dangerous to itself ?
Could you give us a fully detailed definition, for you (if not the official one), of what is a "terror activity" and the difference with a "criminal activity" ?
Why states (not just Caldari State) declare some group as terrorists ?
How would you consider this same group if they weren't Caldari ?
I can't really speak for Ms. Kim, but, here's a bit of a rundown. Her answers are likely to differ a bit....
The Templis Dragonaurs are definitely a danger to the Caldari State, and more particularly to foreign and client communities within the State. They've proven their willingness to go to war against State forces to try to purge communities they consider unwelcome. (E.g., the Waschi Uprising.)
Terrorism is a tactic (that's usually criminal), using violent and frightening acts to draw attention to some type of cause and/or issue. It's typically described as "propaganda by deed." Criminal activity is just illegal activity defined as crime by local authorities.
State actors typically declare particular groups "terrorists" to single them out for special, and especially aggressive, attention. Sometimes this might not be deserved. Sometimes it really, really is.
If the Templis weren't Caldari, they'd still be ethno-nationalist extremists.
Quote:Why the State is considering them terrorist for so many decades (contrary to sayings that tend to forget that they have never been striken off the terrorist list even during Heth years) and why it has been reaffirmed as such recently (by the full CEP, implying that patriots decided they were dangerous to the State) ?
In State organigram of armed forces, where do you place them ? Are they legal ? If legal why are they on terrorist list ?
Do you have terrorists from other groups in your crew ? Being a terrorist from any group is a prerequisite to join your crew or do you only accept Dragonaurs ? Do you accept also non-terrorists in your crew ?
They've got history in the State dating all the way back to the breakout of the original war of secession. Aside from being the people who bombed Nouvelle Rouvenor, they turned on the State and its Intaki allies during the Waschi Uprising and have continued up through the present day with Tibus Heth's short-lived regime. They fell into bad (or worse) odor with the State, which had kind of turning a blind eye under Heth, after Heth failed in an attempt to seize even greater power and ended up being removed as Executor, then trying to lead a revolt to reclaim power from the CEP.
In other words, they were a little quiet while they were getting their way but once they started losing the guns came out and it became policy to shoot them again.
They're not part of the State armed forces except sneakily. They're mostly a secret society that occasionally breaks into the open. They're not a legal entity.
And I kind of doubt that Ms. Kim recognizes much truth in most of what I just said; she might have been unwilling to concede that she had any terrorists on her crew at all, up to now. |
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
The Scope Gallente Federation
440
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 18:12:04 -
[72] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Piracy is a crime. Terrorism is warfare method.
Hahahaha what the **** is wrong with you
I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3430
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 20:32:15 -
[73] - Quote
Charles Cambridge Schmidt wrote:Hahahaha what the **** is wrong with you
There is not enough ink in the cluster for that piece of writing. |
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
156
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 20:49:09 -
[74] - Quote
Lasairiona Raske wrote:Popcorn, anyone?
Don't mind if I do.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
|
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
156
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 20:51:16 -
[75] - Quote
Luna Hanaya wrote:Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:I find it interesting that he keeps talking about "Civilized Society", and i just wonder where the hell does one exist. Or did exist. In all recorded history. And unrecorded.
Everyone gets their hands dirty. Some only outsource it.
It doesn-¦t make you any cleaner. Nor civilized.
In the Empire, of course! We are all here are terribly civilized.
In fact it's mandated by holy writ and theological law.
Let's not forget the Empire also wants the same for everyone else in New Eden. Under the boot heel.
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3178
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 21:18:16 -
[76] - Quote
Bran Kignol wrote: Could you give us a fully detailed definition, for you (if not the official one), of what is a "terror activity" and the difference with a "criminal activity" ?
Terror activity - a warfare method for causing political pressure by instilling fear. Usually performed by groups that lack full funding and equipment to attack military and important tactical targets. Terror attacks are usually weak and affect neither military ability nor disrupt civilian operations of the targeted State as a whole. Casualties are within acceptable margins (when civilian casualties becomes significant and physically affect the State the operation stops being considered terrorism and becomes genocide. When military casualties become significant either in total numbers or in local dislocation, the operation can't be considered a just terror operation as well).
Criminal activity - any activity, prohibited by law.
Bran Kignol wrote:Why states (not just Caldari State) declare some group as terrorists ? Not my business.
Bran Kignol wrote: How would you consider this same group if they weren't Caldari ?
Amarr - allied troops. Gallente - hostile troops, to engage on contact. Minmatar - hostile troops, to engage on contact.
Bran Kignol wrote: Why the State is considering them terrorist for so many decades (contrary to sayings that tend to forget that they have never been striken off the terrorist list even during Heth years) and why it has been reaffirmed as such recently (by the full CEP, implying that patriots decided they were dangerous to the State) ?
Wasn't it one of conditions of YC12 peace treaty?
Bran Kignol wrote: In State organigram of armed forces, where do you place them ? Are they legal ? If legal why are they on terrorist list ?
We do not have terrorist detachments. Our armed forces are professional, and do not have terrorists like Republic.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3178
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 21:21:26 -
[77] - Quote
Bran Kignol wrote: Do you have terrorists from other groups in your crew ? Being a terrorist from any group is a prerequisite to join your crew or do you only accept Dragonaurs ? Do you accept also non-terrorists in your crew ?
Reply was given here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6929425#post6929425 In this exact thread. To read it is advised before asking further questions.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Madhatter's Tea House Arx Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 21:32:37 -
[78] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Bran Kignol wrote: Could you give us a fully detailed definition, for you (if not the official one), of what is a "terror activity" and the difference with a "criminal activity" ?
Terror activity - a warfare method for causing political pressure by instilling fear. Usually performed by groups that lack full funding and equipment to attack military and important tactical targets. Terror attacks are usually weak and affect neither military ability nor disrupt civilian operations of the targeted State as a whole. Casualties are within acceptable margins (when civilian casualties becomes significant and physically affect the State the operation stops being considered terrorism and becomes genocide. When military casualties become significant either in total numbers or in local dislocation, the operation can't be considered a just terror operation as well). Casualties within acceptable margins? What makes the loss of civilian life in any way acceptable?
You may as well have just picked up a shovel and found an empty plot... |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3434
|
Posted - 2017.05.06 23:23:20 -
[79] - Quote
Diana, do you remember that whole 'drive a Nyx into a space station' thing?
That was terrorism.
Terrorism is not a legal form of warfare. Can you produce a single recognized authority on warfare (and no, you don't count) who says it is? |
Bran Kignol
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 00:08:10 -
[80] - Quote
strangely...
Diana Kim wrote:1) All Dragonaur crewmembers in service on my vessels, that are flying under the banner of Caldari State, State Protectorate and Caldari Militia Coalition, are to be immediately discharged from the service.
Dragonaurs are terrorists (State decision since the group inception cf Ms Aria Jenneth complete explication) therefore how do you explain this ?Diana Kim wrote:There are no and were no terrorists on my ship.
Diana Kim wrote:I... never hired personnel interested primarily in terrorism Does that mean you hired crewmembers that are primarily interested in close-combat (useful indeed) and secondarily in terrorism ?
Nevertheless my question is still valid : do you have other terrorists onboard ? Still would like also to know how can you decide who to discharge without outside help ? (lets say State help who could, through intelligence services, get this information)
Wondering, are you just doing this as a pretext to lower your financial expenses due to temporary difficulties ? Completely understandable but a little mean of you to use the CEP statement as a shield for your own layoffs if this is just money trouble.
- Terror activity : Illegal, forbidden into the State therefore is classified into Criminal activity by your own statements.
- Concerning why states decide who is considered terrorist or not, you're partly wrong... This is also partly your business. As Commander, in the end you would be put in position to probably fight any terrorists. Implicitly, you have to fight terrorists wherever you find any that threaten the State. Permiting to live on your ships is potentialy threatening the State.
- Terrorists if weren't Caldari : Amarr/Gallente/Minmatar = hostile and should be destroyed.
- What are the Dragonaurs according to you ? more precisely what is their function (legal point of view) into the State ?
- Do you recognize the fact that Dragonaurs (whatever feelings toward them you have) are put on terrorist list by Caldari State and do respect it and accept all the consequences of such a position ?
I wish to thanks a lot Ms Aria Jenneth for the time taken to have clarified things with a complete covering of my own interrogations... Hope it has been helpful for a better understanding for everybody if not just for me. |
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 09:04:05 -
[81] - Quote
Bran Kignol wrote:Diana Kim wrote:There are no and were no terrorists on my ship. Diana Kim wrote:I... never hired personnel interested primarily in terrorism Does that mean you hired crewmembers that are primarily interested in close-combat (useful indeed) and secondarily in terrorism ? Nevertheless my question is still valid : do you have other terrorists onboard ? No, it is not. It has been answered. You was pointed to answer, and now you ask that AGAIN? Really?
Besides offering reading manual, I will answer you this time.
NO. I have not hired personeel for terrorist duty. I had no terrorists on my ship. I do not have terrorists on my ship now. I do not have open terrorist positions on my ship. I will not hire you.
Even if you are primarily interested in close combat.
I have cooks. I have gunners. I have mechanics. I have warp engineers. I have supervisors. I have command personnel.
I do not have "close-combat guys" and "secondarily interested in terrorism guys". Heck, I won't even offer you a janitor position on my ship, because I do not need a janitor whom I would need to repeat three times "Go clean deck 14" "Go clean deck 14" "Go clean deck 14", if he will be asking all the time what deck to clean even after I gave the answer.
I repeat to you again. No terrorists on my ship. None. Nope. Not at all. Go away. And don't bother me anymore.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Ria Nieyli
50597
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 09:14:56 -
[82] - Quote
Yoshitaka Moromuo wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Bran Kignol wrote: Could you give us a fully detailed definition, for you (if not the official one), of what is a "terror activity" and the difference with a "criminal activity" ?
Terror activity - a warfare method for causing political pressure by instilling fear. Usually performed by groups that lack full funding and equipment to attack military and important tactical targets. Terror attacks are usually weak and affect neither military ability nor disrupt civilian operations of the targeted State as a whole. Casualties are within acceptable margins (when civilian casualties becomes significant and physically affect the State the operation stops being considered terrorism and becomes genocide. When military casualties become significant either in total numbers or in local dislocation, the operation can't be considered a just terror operation as well). Casualties within acceptable margins? What makes the loss of civilian life in any way acceptable? You may as well have just picked up a shovel and found an empty plot...
You're asking someone who executes PoWs for being ethnic Gallente. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 09:17:53 -
[83] - Quote
Ria is a well known slanderer and dishonorable person. Please don't pay attention to what this broken record spews about me.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Ria Nieyli
50597
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 10:02:25 -
[84] - Quote
For your consideration. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 10:19:16 -
[85] - Quote
Keep in mind that Ria is just a liar, who claimed that I would execute people "for being ethnic Gallente". It is the obvious lie and pro-gallentean propaganda - it never happened.
Citizens of the State, know your enemy. Do not trust this filthy tongue. If you see Ria in space - do your duty and destroy this enemy. Give her no quarter.
Glory to the State.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Lasairiona Raske
Raske Holdings
363
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 11:10:48 -
[86] - Quote
Ria, you want to come over for a drink later?
Are you a devil or an angel
Sent here from heaven or from hell?
Sweet temptress, I'm wrapped in your tangles
Can't find my way out of your spell
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 12:00:58 -
[87] - Quote
Who would want to drink with such shameless liar? Ewww. Filthy.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
232
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 12:11:20 -
[88] - Quote
Stop by for a drink again sometime, Ria |
Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
67
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 12:52:40 -
[89] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Who would want to drink with such shameless liar? Ewww. Filthy. Shameless liars.
But really, what the heck, all of you, stop turning topics into trollfests. It is her crew and she can do with them whatever she likes. You don't like it? Well, swallow it. You can't do anything to stop her.
If you are so annoyed by her actions to the degree of this Ria, who started posting unrelated lies about her, go grab these crewmembers and hire them to your ships instead of making nuisance out of yourselves on forum. And make new topics about it. Easy, right?
Do you want clear, polite, respectful atmosphere in Summit media to talk in? Don't be like Ria.
State the nature of your medical emergency
|
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
267
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 13:36:49 -
[90] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:With CEP statement of Dragonaurs involvement in spreading of Kyonoke infection inside Caldari State borders, and the dominant amount of Dragonaur personnel on service on my vessels, the following measures will be taken.
1) All Dragonaur crewmembers in service on my vessels, that are flying under the banner of Caldari State, State Protectorate and Caldari Militia Coalition, are to be immediately discharged from the service.
2) Their unfinished service terms will be paid in full and compensated according to their contracts with compensation for premature contract termination by the employer.
TL;DR:
Sorry guys, I can't have you as crew anymore. But here's a bunch of ISK.
GÇ£Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?GÇ¥
|
|
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
167
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 13:43:39 -
[91] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:I find it interesting that he keeps talking about "Civilized Society"
Well, since the word 'civilization' itself actually just refers to established cities and agriculture, maybe you should have a clue that 'civilized society' is pretty much any society that maintains sufficient population densitiesGÇöexpressly because in order to do so, the inhabitants must behave in a 'civilized' manner toward one another. Whoever thinks 'civilized' means 'polite' needs to see a doctor about their cranial-rectal inversion.
You do know what semantic is and studies, right?
Join Project Transcendence.
Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3440
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 14:04:41 -
[92] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Keep in mind that Ria is just a liar, who claimed that I would execute people "for being ethnic Gallente"
Especially since now it's obvious you'll support dropping biological weapons on civilian populations even within the State.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3440
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 14:07:27 -
[93] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:You do know what semantic is and studies, right?
No. I know nothing of semantics. I will not argue the tiniest details of semantics for weeks on end. I'm also never given to sarcasm.
Ask anyone here.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3440
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 14:23:09 -
[94] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote: But really, what the heck, all of you, stop turning topics into trollfests. It is her crew and she can do with them whatever she likes. You don't like it? Well, swallow it. You can't do anything to stop her.
If you are so annoyed by her actions to the degree of this Ria, who started posting unrelated lies about her, go grab these crewmembers and hire them to your ships instead of making nuisance out of yourselves on forum. And make new topics about it. Easy, right?
Do you want clear, polite, respectful atmosphere in Summit media to talk in? Don't be like Ria.
Don't. Even. Start.
Seriously. When Diana's primary form of responding to any attack is to whine about 'lies' and wrap herself up in the uniform of the Caldari militia like that somehow gives her any authority, and then pulls crap like 'but terrorism isn't a crime in the State' (it is), 'the Dragonaurs aren't enemies of the State' (they are), 'Tibus Heth was never declared a terrorist and enemy of the State' (he was), and generall screaming 'I AM MORE CALDARI THAN THE CEP AND I AM RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG AND ANYONE WHO DARES TO POINT OUT THAT THE CEP SAYS I'M FULL OF CRAP IS LYING I DON'T CARE IF IT'S AN OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE FROM THE CEP THE CEP IS LYING!'...
No.
No, she doesn't get to expect a 'polite respectful atmosphere', since she never shows anyone else any respect. Ever. At best, she gives idle lip service to the idea by mouthing plattitudes about things said by other Caldari. That is, until they happen to disagree with her just a little bit, and then they are forever 'liars'. And then, it's her eternal crusade to show up whenever they say anything in order to continue her baseless slandering and nonsense.
And no, you don't get to expect to not be called to account for defending her crap, either. By providing the Dragonaurs with material supportGÇöknowinglyGÇöand admitting that she has sought out members of a terrorist organization to be the greater part of her crew for years after the CEP re-affirmed their status as a terrorist organization, she has made herself complicit in their war crimes against the Caldari State.
Do any of us have the authority to have her removed from the Militia? No. Do any of us have the authority to have her standings with the State cratered? No. But each and every one of us is more than within our rights to mock her open and blatant hypocrisy. We are all just as within our rights to label her a terrorist, a terrorist sympathizer, and in our estimation, a traitor to the Caldari State. And we are all just as within our rights to never let her forget it, if we so choose.
Because she did this. She chose to make this public statement. She chose to say 'LOOK AT ME, I HIRED TERRORISTS AND KNEW IT! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!' She chose to be the little attention-whore, just like always. And now that she's got it, she doesn't get to complain that she doesn't like the kind of attention she's getting.
Maybe she should have thought of that before choosing to paint a target on her own aft.
|
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
9753
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 14:31:44 -
[95] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Keep in mind that Ria is just a liar, who claimed that I would execute people "for being ethnic Gallente". It is the obvious lie and pro-gallentean propaganda - it never happened.
For those following along at home, Diana Kim may just also have called herself a liar or a pro-Gallante propagandist, then, considering that Ria Nieyli's post links to Diana Kim herself posting what appears to be a video of her crew killing ethnic Gallente at her order.
What days we live in.
If Kim weren't such a coward as to hide behind the Militia banner without at least forming her own corporation, I wonder if she'd suffer the same fate as Nauplius.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
|
Bran Kignol
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 14:49:27 -
[96] - Quote
Ms Kim,
Your position must be too weak and incomfortable so that you prefer avoiding your own contradictions by showing disrespect.
To be clear, from your answers, I conclude this :
- You don't consider Dragonaurs to be terrorists despite the fact they are on the State terrorist list. - You were aware that you had Dragonaurs on your board in full knowledge of the fact they were not tolerated by the State. - You're in opposition to your direct hierarchy. - You supported terrorists by your acts in full knowledge making you complice of their acts.
You should be judjed. Navy, State should act in consequence. |
Crayons
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 14:51:50 -
[97] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Keep in mind that Ria is just a liar, who claimed that I would execute people "for being ethnic Gallente". It is the obvious lie and pro-gallentean propaganda - it never happened. For those following along at home, Diana Kim may just also have called herself a liar or a pro-Gallante propagandist, then, considering that Ria Nieyli's post links to Diana Kim herself posting what appears to be a video of her crew killing ethnic Gallente at her order. What days we live in. If Kim weren't such a coward as to hide behind the Militia banner without at least forming her own corporation, I wonder if she'd suffer the same fate as Nauplius.
Now, I don't know much about logical conclusions, but isn't the crew shown in the video comprised of Dragonaurs, since she claims to have employed them during the time it was shot? Conclusively, she must be a Dragonaur herself. Bring the tar and feathers! |
Sinjin Mokk
Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde
1231
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 15:28:22 -
[98] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Yoshitaka Moromuo wrote:I believe a simple question would warrant an answer here: were they known to be Dragonaur members or affiliates while within your employ? And if the answer to that is 'yes' it means Diana can do nothing more than expel them, since they are only responsible to her for: 1. Things they did prior to being in her employ that they hid from her against the terms of their contract. 2. Things they did whilst in her employee that were against the terms of their contract. If Diana offered an olive branch to people that she felt were unfairly maligned citizens of the State who she believed deserved a fresh chance then that is between her and her employees and anyone in a position of authority over her. Given the number of people I know within this community who employ terrorists, criminals and traitors there are damn few who in a position to truly judge her.
Agreed.
As I've said, there are none of us here who are truly innocent. None of us here has a claim to any moral high ground, especially those who operate under the banner of the State, Empire, Federation or Republic.
Ms. Kim. You are a Provist, a supporter of a dead or missing Chief Executor and guilty of horrific crimes against the people of the Gallente Federation.
Own that.
If you really think Ms. Priano or Ms. Nieyli are liars (they're not), so what? How do their words effect you in any way? How do their words, truth or lie, prevent you from doing your duty (as you perceive it)?
If you're going to be a Provist Dragonauar, then be one. If you want to be a Corporate killing drone for the State, then be one. No excuses, no apologies. Just remember that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
|
Merchant Rova
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
301
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 19:25:13 -
[99] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote:Do you want clear, polite, respectful atmosphere in Summit media to talk in? Don't be like Ria. Don't be Diana Kim. Seriously. She kinda makes the IGS hell to talk in. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
2433
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 20:52:58 -
[100] - Quote
Mika Firestorm wrote: Shameless liars.
But really, what the heck, all of you, stop turning topics into trollfests. It is her crew and she can do with them whatever she likes. You don't like it? Well, swallow it. You can't do anything to stop her.
If you are so annoyed by her actions to the degree of this Ria, who started posting unrelated lies about her, go grab these crewmembers and hire them to your ships instead of making nuisance out of yourselves on forum. And make new topics about it. Easy, right?
Do you want clear, polite, respectful atmosphere in Summit media to talk in? Don't be like Ria.
You're one to talk. Your master turns discussions into trollfests all the time.
Whatever.
Your master Kimmy employed members of a known terrorist group. Those are the facts no matter how you try to deflect them.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
|
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:10:38 -
[101] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Diana Kim wrote:Keep in mind that Ria is just a liar, who claimed that I would execute people "for being ethnic Gallente" Especially since now it's obvious you'll support dropping biological weapons on civilian populations even within the State. Which is an utter lie, that only idiots will believe. Of course I don't support that crap and claiming that doesn't make you look smart at all.
Really, goon. If you have nothing to say of value, don't say anything. You're only making yourself look unreasonable, though, on the other hand, your organization already grants you this status.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:24:24 -
[102] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote: For those following along at home, Diana Kim may just also have called herself a liar or a pro-Gallante propagandist, then, considering that Ria Nieyli's post links to Diana Kim herself posting what appears to be a video of her crew killing ethnic Gallente at her order.
Dear reader, please keep in mind, that Makoto is a liar and slanderer who has lost her honor. She was caught before here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=381560 And she has been caught right here again. It is pretty obvious from the provided link that the people of gallente ethnic were executed for crimes they have committed, not for "being Gallente" (their tribunal proceedings are still available in the archive). They have been sentenced in accordance with Caldari State laws and Navy regulations.
Makoto Priano wrote: If Kim weren't such a coward...
As we can see from the previous thread I've linked, Makoto has lost all privilege to call others cowards after her outrageous cowardice.
Moreover, you all can see now inconsistency in lies. My public combat record, just as her, are available for everyone to see. Just as my fights even with way stronger opponents (like Templar) are now public knowledge.
Makoto can hiss and spew her venom around herself like a toothless snake, but she can't stand against facts and honor of Caldari Officers.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Madhatter's Tea House Arx Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:27:05 -
[103] - Quote
Your propensity to attack the source of claims, rather than the claims themselves, is speaking volumes of your character.
I'll say nothing more on the subject. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:32:52 -
[104] - Quote
Yoshitaka Moromuo wrote:Your propensity to attack the source of claims, rather than the claims themselves, is speaking volumes of your character.
I'll say nothing more on the subject. They were already known liars. I don't really need to defend against every delusion and sick lie that a known enemy of Caldari State and known liar spreads. I just point out they are liars and why.
This isn't a court, nor I commit any crime to answer for anything to anybody. It was their obligation to prove their words. They didn't.
Accusation without charge and proof is nothing but a slander. And a "proof" of committing "A" when they claim "B" (like this liar Ria) obviously doesn't count.
So I just show them their place.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3179
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:41:49 -
[105] - Quote
Now, all these trolls aside - and to return back to the discussion.
I have to admit - I did commit an infringement, that I can be accused of.
I have terminated contracts prematurely without legal reasons to do so. But I have paid the fine and compensation for committing it. Thus, I don't think that accusing me in this would have any value or weight anymore.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Nai Arto
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:52:29 -
[106] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: It is pretty obvious from the provided link that the people of gallente ethnic were executed for crimes they have committed, not for "being Gallente" (their tribunal proceedings are still available in the archive). They have been sentenced in accordance with Caldari State laws and Navy regulations.
Let us imagine a similar video made by a Captain from the 24th Imperial Crusade who has captured a number of Tribal Liberation Force crews. In it, the captain is shown pronouncing judgement according to Theology Council edicts and the Imperial Navy's code of military justice, presumably all of these crews are "guilty" according to the pilot's interpretation of the law.
However, instead of executing everyone, the captain orders his security personnel to shoot only the Sebiestors.
Clearly, is an example of disparity in the sentencing process according to ethnicity. They were convicted for "crimes they have committed," but sentenced to death only for being Sebiestors.
Perhaps Strike Commander Kim should consult someone with actual legal expertise before her next round of executions. I know a number of legal scholars at the Institute who would be willing to offer their services to allied capsuleers. |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1894
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:55:06 -
[107] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Yoshitaka Moromuo wrote:Your propensity to attack the source of claims, rather than the claims themselves, is speaking volumes of your character.
I'll say nothing more on the subject. They were already known liars. I don't really need to defend against every delusion and sick lie that a known enemy of Caldari State and known liar spreads. I just point out they are liars and why. This isn't a court, nor I commit any crime to answer for anything to anybody. It was their obligation to prove their words. They didn't. Accusation without charge and proof is nothing but a slander. And a "proof" of committing "A" when they claim "B" (like this liar Ria) obviously doesn't count. So I just show them their place. Oh, harboring a terrorist is a crime. That it definately is. Now the actual question is, does anyone have any actual proof that those she has laid off performed any terrorist acts? Planned any? No action or intention, no terrorist. Affiliations dont specifically make terrorists, bombs or plans to use bombs do. I've yet to see any proof saying any of her ex employees had either. Why is this still a discussion if no one has actual proof to push this issue? As much as I hate to admit it I'm defendig you, then again I'm a liar so what do I know? |
Nai Arto
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 21:58:42 -
[108] - Quote
One presumes that Commander Kim's own admissions constitute evidence of crew members affiliation with the Dragonaurs. Statements in a public forum are admissible in every legal system in New Eden that I have studied. |
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1895
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 22:03:09 -
[109] - Quote
Affiliation and action while one can lead to the other, are not the same thing. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3180
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 22:06:41 -
[110] - Quote
Exactly. Thank you, Ms. Vess.
I confirm once again, that none of my crew that either were discharged or stayed, have committed or participated themselves in any criminal acts or terror operations.
Those, who speak otherwise, they just spread slanders about Caldari Officers and Caldari Soldiers.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
|
Nai Arto
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 22:11:10 -
[111] - Quote
Membership in, sometimes mere affiliation with, a banned terrorist organization is often a criminal offense itself. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?
Commander Kim herself made public the fact that her crews included these people, and that their affiliation was enough to dismiss them from employment. Arguing about whether her terrorist affiliated former crewpersons ever actually bombed anyone seems to be a red herring. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3180
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 22:14:20 -
[112] - Quote
Nai Arto wrote:Diana Kim wrote: It is pretty obvious from the provided link that the people of gallente ethnic were executed for crimes they have committed, not for "being Gallente" (their tribunal proceedings are still available in the archive). They have been sentenced in accordance with Caldari State laws and Navy regulations.
Let us imagine a similar video made by a Captain from the 24th Imperial Crusade who has captured a number of Tribal Liberation Force crews. In it, the captain is shown pronouncing judgement according to Theology Council edicts and the Imperial Navy's code of military justice, presumably all of these crews are "guilty" according to the pilot's interpretation of the law. However, instead of executing everyone, the captain orders his security personnel to shoot only the Sebiestors. Clearly, is an example of disparity in the sentencing process according to ethnicity. They were convicted for "crimes they have committed," but sentenced to death only for being Sebiestors. Perhaps Strike Commander Kim should consult someone with actual legal expertise before her next round of executions. I know a number of legal scholars at the Institute who would be willing to offer their services to allied capsuleers. Well, imagine you had a serial killer of Sebiestor bloodline. You had a bunch of criminals who were sentenced to death and whom you need to execute. Now add one plus one and say, what would you do to try to lure the killer out by doing something he would hate so much so he would try to pick you as a next target?
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Nai Arto
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2017.05.07 22:33:02 -
[113] - Quote
Not disgrace myself with a public display of barbarity. If I were in military service, not disgrace my uniform and the State I claim to serve. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3180
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 01:57:09 -
[114] - Quote
Nai Arto wrote:Not disgrace myself with a public display of barbarity. If I were in military service, not disgrace my uniform and the State I claim to serve. But you have already disgraced yourself. Begone for now, until you will learn how to speak with your betters.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Ria Nieyli
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
50620
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 03:12:39 -
[115] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Those, who speak otherwise, they just spread slanders about Caldari Officers and Caldari Soldiers.
In which case stop spreading slanders about me tia. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3452
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 06:45:20 -
[116] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote: Which is an utter lie, that only idiots will believe. Of course I don't support that crap and claiming that doesn't make you look smart at all.
You say that, but at the same time, the only crime the Dragonaurs have been charged with is terrorism. Most recently, for using a biological weapon on a Caldari city. And you say that's not a crime.
So... I dunno, Diana, looks pretty clear-cut from here. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3452
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 06:49:31 -
[117] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Affiliation and action while one can lead to the other, are not the same thing.
Not true. If any of those individuals gave money to the organization, and any money from the organization was used in the execution of terrorist acts, then they're legally co-conspirators.
Really, RICO laws are pretty clear about this all over the damned place. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 10:16:38 -
[118] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Diana Kim wrote: Which is an utter lie, that only idiots will believe. Of course I don't support that crap and claiming that doesn't make you look smart at all.
You say that, but at the same time, the only crime the Dragonaurs have been charged with is terrorism. Most recently, for using a biological weapon on a Caldari city. And you say that's not a crime. So... I dunno, Diana, looks pretty clear-cut from here.
That is not true , that is fake news. Someone infected by kyonoke and who became ill , which resulted in him crashing his ship on the planet, caused the outbreak, was not a terrorist attack.
They were placed on a terrorist list , yet they had not committed any such acts. It was political move by their opponents. Politics is dirty game.
|
Haru'kai Vidaraltyr
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 11:24:14 -
[119] - Quote
Reading this channel is fascinating. There appears to be quite a number of legal scholars who are intimately familiar with all nations' laws. Even more interestingly, they appear to agree that Federation law is the default for the cluster and applies to the State in both employment law and acts of political violence.
I'm not so sure that this is the case. I am somewhat confident that State law - and perhaps more usefully, individual corporate law - is not quite so clear cut in the matter. It seems clear that the Dragonaurs are a proscribed organisation. However, does the State practice collective responsibility in law? Do members of an organisation bear guilt by mere belonging or political affiliation, or do individuals have to be accused - or convicted - of a crime before being labelled a 'terrorist'? I am not so intimately familiar with State law as to be able to make such a judgement. Perhaps m'learned friends will fare better from their encyclopaedic knowledge?
In many tribal jurisdictions within the Republic, it is not only legal to commit acts that the fine people of this channel have labelled 'terrorist', these acts are viewed with some sense of approbation. This is justified under the agreed principle of Historic Self-Defence. In other words, all acts - including against civilians - are legal when the freedom of a slave or slaves is at stake. Holders and their families, overseers, and associated civiil servants, hauliers and facilitators have all been executed in the course of freeing Minmatar. (I should note that many tribal jurisdictions do consider these murderous acts nowadays - and judgements can be inconsistent in the matter now that clan tribunals apply the law).
In the Republic, these acts are seen as just and good. In the Empire, they are seen as terrorism. Indeed, the Empire is fond of labelling the entire Republic as a terrorist state. Thus, I submit, the definition of 'terrorism' is somewhat of a moveable feast depending on one's point of view. Some jurisdictions codify it and describe it in law, others define it under existing laws on murder. Being essentially a political act, it depends on the politics of the moment. The FIO and the Federation Senate particularly are fond of designating opposition as terrorists or terrorist sympathisers to froth up the yellow press and the impressionable voter. That is not law, that is politics.
To be clear, I am not supporting Commander Kim's actions nor condemning them. I just note that this is perhaps a matter for State law and her employing mega corporation, and that many of the pronouncements here make the assumption she is wrong prima facie.
Whereas if we were truly embracing Federation law as being the default, surely the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" would apply to judgments of her crew, at the very least.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3180
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 12:30:34 -
[120] - Quote
Haru'kai Vidaraltyr wrote: Whereas if we were truly embracing Federation law as being the default, surely the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" would apply to judgments of her crew, at the very least.
This doesn't relate to Federal law. It is a basic principle of fair justice. For any processes that I have executed over captured crewmembers of destroyed vessel, their innocence was assumed from the the start and their guilt had to be proven for the jury based on collected evidences before deciding on a sentence.
Haru'kai Vidaraltyr wrote: I'm not so sure that this is the case. I am somewhat confident that State law - and perhaps more usefully, individual corporate law - is not quite so clear cut in the matter. It seems clear that the Dragonaurs are a proscribed organisation. However, does the State practice collective responsibility in law? Do members of an organisation bear guilt by mere belonging or political affiliation, or do individuals have to be accused - or convicted - of a crime before being labelled a 'terrorist'? I am not so intimately familiar with State law as to be able to make such a judgement. Perhaps m'learned friends will fare better from their encyclopaedic knowledge?
There is no collective responsibility in the State. For example, you aren't allowed to execute a gurista crewmember if you catch them alive or if they surrender. Their guilt must be proven first.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3180
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 12:33:11 -
[121] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:... for using a biological weapon on a Caldari city. And you say that's not a crime.
Which I never said.
If you have audio or visual hallucinations, visit your clone technicians or medbay. IGS is not a place for goons to practise in dementia.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1899
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 12:54:03 -
[122] - Quote
Arrendis wrote: Not true. If any of those individuals gave money to the organization, and any money from the organization was used in the execution of terrorist acts, then they're legally co-conspirators.
That would be an action. |
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
169
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 12:55:07 -
[123] - Quote
Previously, on "Another Drama at the IGS"
- Kim-¦s bosses say that an ideological group went above ideology and did bad stuff - Kim decides to remove all members of said group from her ship after reading about bad stuff - Community call Kim a bad stuff doer - Kim replies everyone pointing that ideology and bad stuff don-¦t always go together, and haboring ideology people doesn-¦t make her a bad stuff doer or supporter - Community doesn-¦t care and call her names and bad stuff doer. - This goes on for 7 pages
Instead of calling people names, confusing correlation with causation, and sharing opinions as if they were something important, why don-¦t you spend that precious energy helping to erect something to the benefit of the cluster?
I could really use some help acquiring the specs for the Sansha infomorph interfacing units and the architecture of the computational power that goes with it.
Join Project Transcendence.
Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1123
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 14:57:58 -
[124] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:I find it interesting that he keeps talking about "Civilized Society", and i just wonder where the hell does one exist. Or did exist. In all recorded history. And unrecorded.
Everyone gets their hands dirty. Some only outsource it.
It doesn-¦t make you any cleaner. Nor civilized.
Edgy sophistric pedantry. Yes, the definition of 'civilized society' is squishy and is up for semantical debate, but it's also largely understood as a term and as a social phenomena by most groups of humans that have survived up until this point. You can pretend the phenomena of civilized society doesn't exist, but that doesn't make it any less true that you likely conform to it to a great degree, and you likely can identify uncivilized behavior when you see it. So it's there, even if it's difficult to come to a consensus on 100% of what it constitutes.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1123
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 15:01:15 -
[125] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:and sharing opinions as if they were something important
You're not doing anything different here, you know.. the difference is that the rest of us are making direct points, something potentially productive (albeit rarely), and you're just 3rd partying on the discussion. That's far from productive. So why don't you go erect something, eh?
See how annoying that is?
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
173
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Posted - 2017.05.08 16:08:24 -
[126] - Quote
Jason Galente wrote: Edgy sophistric pedantry. Yes, the definition of 'civilized society' is squishy and is up for semantical debate, but it's also largely understood as a term and as a social phenomena by most groups of humans that have survived up until this point. You can pretend the phenomena of civilized society doesn't exist, but that doesn't make it any less true that you likely conform to it to a great degree, and you likely can identify uncivilized behavior when you see it. So it's there, even if it's difficult to come to a consensus on 100% of what it constitutes.
I would advise you to re-read what i said and compare your current conclusions to the intent of the words written.
Jason Galente wrote:Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:and sharing opinions as if they were something important You're not doing anything different here, you know.. the difference is that the rest of us are making direct points, something potentially productive (albeit rarely), and you're just 3rd partying on the discussion. That's far from productive. So why don't you go erect something, eh? See how annoying that is?
Not annoying at all my dear opinion sharing capsuleer.
In fact, you can help a great deal by pointing out experts or gathering materials while you go merry on your way to do that important thing that you are so opinionated about.
Please resume your opinion comparison with the other opinionated people.
Join Project Transcendence.
Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1123
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 17:26:50 -
[127] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote: Please resume your opinion comparison with the other opinionated people.
My opinion is that Diana is psychotic. What am I going to do? Make her not psychotic? Kill her so she can be reborn 10 seconds later? Destroy her non-existent private corporation?
There's no area in which I have any control over the person (and she's not worth the effort even if this weren't the case), and she, like the rest of us, is effectively immortal. So what am I going to do, exactly?
You seem to be existentially confused about why people bicker with one another, as if it's not natural. And as if there's always something to be 'done'. Sometimes words are indeed the appropriate response when you're at an effective impasse as to what you can do? You confuse me. What 'productive action' exactly would you take when it comes to this person, since you are so, you know, transcendent above the rest of us plebs? Anything other than "mock them" or "ignore them" doesn't seem to make much functional sense. And again, whether or not you want to admit it, 'opinion comparison' is often the first step people take prior to formulating a plan of action.
But I'm sure your orgy studies are far more productive than our repudiation of a genocidal war criminal.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3465
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 17:58:17 -
[128] - Quote
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:Previously, on "Another Drama at the IGS"
- Kim-¦s bosses say that an ideological group went above ideology and did bad stuff - Kim decides to remove all members of said group from her ship after reading about bad stuff
You missed the part where the citations of 'the CEP has reaffirmed the Dragonaurs are terrorists' are almost a decade old. They're been on the 'did bad stuff, illegal to be part of this group' list for a very, very long time now. Which makes hiring them in the last few years a slightly different flavor than you one you're presenting.
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Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
160
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Posted - 2017.05.08 18:01:00 -
[129] - Quote
Ummm correct me if I am wrong but the hiring of Terrorists for a State Run Militia or State Nationalist Militia is like a bad thing right?
When thou enterest into the Sani Sabik, the Sani Sabik entereth into thee.
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Jason Galente
Tempest Legion
1124
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Posted - 2017.05.08 18:03:03 -
[130] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:Ummm correct me if I am wrong but the hiring of Terrorists for a State Run Militia or State Nationalist Militia is like a bad thing right?
Yeah, it's just a 'bad thing'. Like when a child steals a cookie from a jar. Just, you know, bad. Nothing more egregious than that.
Only the liberty of the individual assures the prosperity of the whole.
And this foundation must be defended.
At any cost
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3465
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 18:03:18 -
[131] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: That is not true , that is fake news. Someone infected by kyonoke and who became ill , which resulted in him crashing his ship on the planet, caused the outbreak, was not a terrorist attack.
They were placed on a terrorist list , yet they had not committed any such acts. It was political move by their opponents. Politics is dirty game.
Really? So violating the containment on the Pit in order to secure the bioweapon in the first place, that wasn't a terrorist act? Pretty sure the State would say it is. And having knowingly done that, even approaching a population center is pretty much a statement of intent. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3465
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 18:04:18 -
[132] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:Arrendis wrote: Not true. If any of those individuals gave money to the organization, and any money from the organization was used in the execution of terrorist acts, then they're legally co-conspirators.
That would be an action.
Since membership in the group that's been labelled as terrorists for years is voluntary, Deitra, affiliation is an action. You don't see me telling Miz 'oh, I'm a Goon, but I'm not responsible for the things Goons do', do you? No. I'm an enabler, I cop to it. My affiliation is voluntary, so being a part of this group is an active decision. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
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Posted - 2017.05.08 19:43:04 -
[133] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:TomHorn wrote: That is not true , that is fake news. Someone infected by kyonoke and who became ill , which resulted in him crashing his ship on the planet, caused the outbreak, was not a terrorist attack.
They were placed on a terrorist list , yet they had not committed any such acts. It was political move by their opponents. Politics is dirty game.
Really? So violating the containment on the Pit in order to secure the bioweapon in the first place, that wasn't a terrorist act? Pretty sure the State would say it is. And having knowingly done that, even approaching a population center is pretty much a statement of intent.
No it is not. More fake news.
All we know is there was a breach of the pit. Those involved became infected and died,so whatever their intentions were for getting sample of kyonoke are unknown, were not carried out.
What you are publishing are the same assumptions and conspiracy theories of many others , mostly pushed by Gallente nationalists , and the Caldari liberal extremists , who both have their own agendas. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
9767
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 19:50:10 -
[134] - Quote
The intent of the terrorists is known. They were planning a biological weapons attack on the Federation.
Given the nature of the Kyonoke pathogen as we knew it at that time, this would best be described as a conspiracy to commit a genocidal attack.
Either way, the breach of a State-mandated and -operated security cordon constitutes a breach of State law.
This conspiracy then resulted in nearly 15 million State citizens dying of the Kyonoke outbreak in Myrskaa.
While the intent was not to infect Myrskaa, I think it's fair to say that the Dragonaur are not exactly blameless of mass murder insofar as Myrskaa is concerned.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3471
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 20:47:53 -
[135] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: No it is not. More fake news.
No, Mr. I-Was-A-Dragonaur-Until-It-Got-Dangerous-To-Admit-It, just the opposite.
Note that I never claimed the initial intent was to attack that city. So let me walk you through this:
1) They breached the Pit in order to secure a sample. Not in dispute. 2) One pilot became infected and crashed on a populated Caldari planet. Not in dispute. 3) By the time he became incapacitated, this pilot, who knew he'd breached the Pit, would also have known he was infected. 4) At the time, there was no cure available. 5) There are no indications he attempted to alter course, warp to an empty location in space, self-destruct, or otherwise take action that would have lessened the risk to bystanders. 6) He went to a planet. It's not like he didn't know the planet would be there.
Relevant points: He chose to breach the Pit. He knew he was infected. He made no attempt to avoid population centers, and in fact, went to a populated planetary body. Knowing there was no cure.
That's more than enough for the criminal case to be made.
And none of that is in dispute, unless you'd like to offer evidence that he attempted to dodge the giant rock that he knew about a number of AU ahead of time, and somehow failed. Or, you know, that he attempted to warn the local civilian population as he was initiating warp that he presented a biohazard risk and should be placed in immediate quarantine by HAZMAT-equipped emergency responders.
Quote:who both have their own agendas.
Yes, and you certainly don't have an agenda as a "former" member of the organization yourself, do you? |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 22:08:26 -
[136] - Quote
I don't know where those logs have come from, taking it they are genuine and not forged, it looks like it wasn't more fake news after all.
We agree on points one and two. After that i believe he became sick , what happened was unintentional. If he could of done something i believe he would of.
Yes criminal case could be brought against him, no doubt.
Quote:Quote: who both have their own agendas.
Yes, and you certainly don't have an agenda as a "former" member of the organization yourself, do you?
hehe your funny. |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 22:17:09 -
[137] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:The intent of the terrorists is known. They were planning a biological weapons attack on the Federation. Given the nature of the Kyonoke pathogen as we knew it at that time, this would best be described as a conspiracy to commit a genocidal attack. Either way, the breach of a State-mandated and -operated security cordon constitutes a breach of State law. This conspiracy then resulted in nearly 15 million State citizens dying of the Kyonoke outbreak in Myrskaa. While the intent was not to infect Myrskaa, I think it's fair to say that the Dragonaur are not exactly blameless of mass murder insofar as Myrskaa is concerned.
TomHorn smiles , you love it don't you Priano-Haani , you love it that 15 million State citizens are dead , you can show a link to the far right in the State.
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Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
2384
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 22:25:17 -
[138] - Quote
Wow. It might have been better for you to do this quietly, Kimmy....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
9771
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 22:34:28 -
[139] - Quote
Horn, you're a bloody idiot.
Edit; Ms. Osyn, honestly, I believe the point was as much for Kim to stick out her tongue and make raspberries at the rest of the cluster, flaunting how edgy and dangerous one lone militia pilot is.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3472
|
Posted - 2017.05.08 23:08:13 -
[140] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: We agree on points one and two. After that i believe he became sick , what happened was unintentional. If he could of done something i believe he would of.
So you believe that his first symptoms presented, and progressed all the way to complete incapacitation, within the time one warp? I mean, you've breached the Kyonoke Pit. You start getting sick. Gee, I wonder what it might be!
Just the possibility should be enough to alert local medical authorities and get yourself moving away from every celestial in the system, just on principle. |
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TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
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Posted - 2017.05.09 00:09:31 -
[141] - Quote
All i'm saying , is i believe what happened was unintentional. He was in his ship , became sick incapacitated and crashed , if he could of averted it , he would of.
If we lived in a perfect world , maybe things would work like you suggest should happen.
There is no proof to say it was this or that , people will believe what they want about the incident.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3473
|
Posted - 2017.05.09 01:12:23 -
[142] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:All i'm saying , is i believe what happened was unintentional. He was in his ship , became sick incapacitated and crashed , if he could of averted it , he would of.
Yes. You said that. What you haven't said is why you think he warped to a planet when he knew he was sick. Or if you believe he went from 'I feel ok' to 'I'm completely unconscious' in a matter of minutes. Especially since ships exit warp and stop. So he needed to actively drive toward the planet.
That's all I'm asking for: given the behavior we know ships exhibit, what makes you believe that his ship behaved in a way vessels are known not to behave? |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
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Posted - 2017.05.09 01:36:03 -
[143] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:TomHorn wrote:All i'm saying , is i believe what happened was unintentional. He was in his ship , became sick incapacitated and crashed , if he could of averted it , he would of.
Yes. You said that. What you haven't said is why you think he warped to a planet when he knew he was sick. Or if you believe he went from 'I feel ok' to 'I'm completely unconscious' in a matter of minutes. Especially since ships exit warp and stop. So he needed to actively drive toward the planet. That's all I'm asking for: given the behavior we know ships exhibit, what makes you believe that his ship behaved in a way vessels are known not to behave?
What do you think ? that's what i want to know. Whats the point you are trying to make. Do you believe it was intentional ? |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3473
|
Posted - 2017.05.09 01:39:41 -
[144] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: What do you think ? that's what i want to know. Whats the point you are trying to make. Do you believe it was intentional ?
I think it's impossible for his ship to have warped from the stargate to the planet on its own. I think it's impossible for his ship to have driven itself into the atmosphere of a planet on its own. I think those two things mean it's impossible for him to have gotten where he was without making the decision to go there.
And that's intent.
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
3768
|
Posted - 2017.05.09 02:10:53 -
[145] - Quote
Uh ... not to defend TomHorn (about much of anything), but Kyonoke does affect the brain, so.... |
TomHorn
Kresh Leaves
306
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Posted - 2017.05.09 02:17:09 -
[146] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:TomHorn wrote: What do you think ? that's what i want to know. Whats the point you are trying to make. Do you believe it was intentional ?
I think it's impossible for his ship to have warped from the stargate to the planet on its own. I think it's impossible for his ship to have driven itself into the atmosphere of a planet on its own. I think those two things mean it's impossible for him to have gotten where he was without making the decision to go there. And that's intent.
That's what i thought you were getting at.
You your saying a lot of stuff , you don't know that is how it was or not, i don't.
All i can do is repeat myself , say i don't believe he would intentionally crash his ship into the planet.
Your trying to say , because he flew his ship close to the planet that's intent to crash it into the planet. Sounds like some god dam lawyer bull to me.
No motive for doing it.
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
3180
|
Posted - 2017.05.09 02:29:38 -
[147] - Quote
Casserina Leshrac wrote:Ummm correct me if I am wrong but the hiring of Terrorists for a State Run Militia or State Nationalist Militia is like a bad thing right? Well, that's now an interesting question.
I am pretty sure than in TLF that's pretty much a norm, especially taking into account what was said by Republic loyalist above.
Here in the State? We believe in Professionalism. We don't murder just people who belong to enemy, but who don't grab weapons to fight us. We don't waste resources just to instil fear in enemy. We aren't gallente to torture and genocide.
Yes, I believe what you have said is a bad thing, because terrorists are in majority of their numbers are amateurs and incompetent fools who embezzle war fund without real progress to the war effort.
I would never hire a person as a terrorist, nor hold these people on my ship for any reasonable or unreasonable purpose.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3477
|
Posted - 2017.05.09 02:48:36 -
[148] - Quote
TomHorn wrote: Your trying to say , because he flew his ship close to the planet that's intent to crash it into the planet. Sounds like some god dam lawyer bull to me.
I'm saying thatGÇöspecific motive unknownGÇöthere's no way the ship gets to the planet without the specific intention of putting it there. And that given that he'd have to at least strongly suspect he was sick with Kyonoke, that means he was knowingly and intentionally putting the civilian population at risk.
You don't have to know someone's motive for setting up a ticking bomb to know that you don't set one up without the intention of setting up a ticking bomb. |
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