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Zabo Achasse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.05.06 09:43:11 -
[1] - Quote
My proposal is that Capsuleers are given the ability to use technology which is so obviously already available to them such as basic circuitry. It would be very simple to integrate a basic circuit simulator. I am not here to preach about how much potential there is with electronics, I am sure most of you are aware by now. If we assume Capsuleers were able to put together a circuit and use it in or with something else, like a satellite, I would expect marvellous things of people here.
Thank you for listening!
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5485
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Posted - 2017.05.06 11:29:51 -
[2] - Quote
What are you actually proposing here? What would we be able to do with this basic circuit simulator, and why would it be worth dev time? |
Zabo Achasse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.05.06 21:56:21 -
[3] - Quote
I am proposing that out of simple component parts, a player would be able to make his own unique circuits. They could even build a small computer if they wanted. I'm saying it's simple because compared to implementing all the things players could make using this, giving players the opportunity to use the tools is much easier. I'm actually proposing a way in which players can build their own satellites, but in fact the possibilities are huge. It gives eve the scope for engineers and computer scientists to work on projects within eve, and lets corporations have another product they could possibly produce.
I'm not a designer and there are only a few electrical 'parts' in the game at the moment but a few uses come to mind :
let the player design and 'code' their own drones/satellites, giving the potential to fine tune and tweak and optimise various circuits if the player wanted to spend the time doing that. This could apply to anything- for any module in eve you could tweak the way various circuits interlock and make them more efficient or whatever. this makes modules unique and personal. to sell them they would have to meet certain criteria for the market
a player could wire in a tracking device or eves dropping device into a innocent module, this would lead to much fun. and the market would have to adapt.
there could be generic devices which players would have to look up the diagrams to build, obviously much simplified in the case of large objects. these could be sold for money, giving players another source of income. it could be a part of the industry pane |
Matthias Ancaladron
Wrath of Angels Solitaire.
288
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Posted - 2017.05.06 22:28:32 -
[4] - Quote
You mean let us mod station interiors and show CCP how incarna was supposed to be with sleek sexy sci-fi mall/bar interiors full of cool **** to do with poker and hookers.
Actually forget the stations and the poker. |
Zabo Achasse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.05.06 22:33:34 -
[5] - Quote
Uh... |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5486
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Posted - 2017.05.06 23:36:15 -
[6] - Quote
...At no point have you actually bothered to explain what any of these circuits and satellites will actually DO in the game. Would you care to try again? |
Zabo Achasse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.05.06 23:49:59 -
[7] - Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite
I can't believe you never got taught what a satellite can do. |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1161
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Posted - 2017.05.06 23:52:57 -
[8] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:...At no point have you actually bothered to explain what any of these circuits and satellites will actually DO in the game. Would you care to try again?
not empty quoting. I've yet to see a feature or idea proposed... |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5486
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Posted - 2017.05.06 23:53:40 -
[9] - Quote
Zabo Achasse wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite
I can't believe you never got taught what a satellite can do.
I know what a satellite is in real life.
What are you actually proposing these things do IN THE GAME. |
Zabo Achasse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.05.07 00:02:17 -
[10] - Quote
I don't understand what you guys mean.
A satellite is simply an example of the sort of thing that can be done. Perhaps there is a way to implement satellites in a fun and interesting way which might involve setting up orbits and all sorts of stuff but my idea is not the satellite.
My idea is that players are given the ability to make electrical circuits and to modify electrical items that have electrical circuits, possibly simplifying more complex modules. You seem to have taken my suggestions for what players could do with it, and made it into it's own proposal. |
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5486
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Posted - 2017.05.07 00:04:20 -
[11] - Quote
Nobody knows what you are suggesting here.
Why would I make one of these circuits or satellites? What could I do with it? Why would anyone buy it? What does it DO? |
Zabo Achasse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.05.07 00:14:11 -
[12] - Quote
If we assume that you are able to build circuits in the same manner as you can in real life, it means that you can make any circuit that exists in real life.
That is a big thing. It will mean that eve is turing-complete.
It depends how far ccp would be willing to implement it, but you could have whole ships wired up and modified to go-faster by players, with their own custom configurations of circuitboards, power supplies and processors.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3972
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Posted - 2017.05.07 00:26:35 -
[13] - Quote
So basically you want Space Engineers. May I suggest you play space engineers rather than EVE?
Disclaimer, I have Space Engineers, I like it, but it is not EVE and EVE should not try and become it. |
Zabo Achasse
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2017.05.07 00:29:35 -
[14] - Quote
Space engineers is good, but there aren't enough solar systems for me. |
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
507
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Posted - 2017.05.07 00:34:44 -
[15] - Quote
Zabo Achasse wrote:If we assume that you are able to build circuits in the same manner as you can in real life, it means that you can make any circuit that exists in real life.
That is a big thing. It will mean that eve is turing-complete.
It depends how far ccp would be willing to implement it, but you could have whole ships wired up and modified to go-faster by players, with their own custom configurations of circuitboards, power supplies and processors.
This sounds needlessly complicated, even for EvE.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
85
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Posted - 2017.05.07 00:56:43 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah, and you need to learn quantum field theory and build your own warp drive in real life to pass the tutorial. |
grgjegb gergerg
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2017.05.07 03:42:43 -
[17] - Quote
Zabo Achasse wrote:If we assume that you are able to build circuits in the same manner as you can in real life, it means that you can make any circuit that exists in real life.
That is a big thing. It will mean that eve is turing-complete.
It depends how far ccp would be willing to implement it, but you could have whole ships wired up and modified to go-faster by players, with their own custom configurations of circuitboards, power supplies and processors.
Ok, so "circuits" is a VERY vague thing that somehow makes ships better.
Topics you have failed to even touch upon:
- What game systems could this affect?
- What would be used to make this stuff?
- How would this tie in to game balance?
- What personal expertise would EVE players use, and why would this be worth it?
- How could this possibly make the game better?
- Why is this worth the additional computational power that the server and clients would have to dedicate to it?
This is like... suggesting that CCP add cooking. And then not providing a source, process, or result. Just "add cooking" and expect everyone else to fill in the blanks.
Heck, I've taken electrical engineering courses. Didn't do badly. I do not want to do it in EVE and do not see ANY way it could possibly improve the game.
In closing: your idea is terribly constructed and you should feel bad. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5491
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Posted - 2017.05.07 12:21:35 -
[18] - Quote
Zabo Achasse wrote:If we assume that you are able to build circuits in the same manner as you can in real life, it means that you can make any circuit that exists in real life.
That is a big thing. It will mean that eve is turing-complete.
It depends how far ccp would be willing to implement it, but you could have whole ships wired up and modified to go-faster by players, with their own custom configurations of circuitboards, power supplies and processors.
So it's basically rigs, but much more of a nightmare to balance?
And can you please explain how a circuit you or I could make in real life is going to affect an antimatter reactor, plasma thrusters or a 200mm machine gun that fires miniature nuclear bombs? |
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
1162
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Posted - 2017.05.07 22:33:55 -
[19] - Quote
Zabo Achasse wrote:I don't understand what you guys mean.
A satellite is simply an example of the sort of thing that can be done. Perhaps there is a way to implement satellites in a fun and interesting way which might involve setting up orbits and all sorts of stuff but my idea is not the satellite.
My idea is that players are given the ability to make electrical circuits and to modify electrical items that have electrical circuits, possibly simplifying more complex modules. You seem to have taken my suggestions for what players could do with it, and made it into it's own proposal.
And circuits have no meaning without knowing what you want them to do. What do you want them to do?
Or do you want something like redstone in minecraft, but for EVE? That's what it sounds like, and that really has nothing to do with how EVE was built. |
Cade Windstalker
1528
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Posted - 2017.05.08 01:26:12 -
[20] - Quote
Oh man, so many reasons this is a *terrible* idea.
First off, it's not simple by any means. There are entire companies built around programs for accurately simulating circuits of any complexity. This would be a *huge* development effort.
Beyond that, this would massively enable automation and, essentially, botting. There's literally no scenario I can think of where this is in any way gameplay related or useful where it's not just enabling botting.
Even beyond that, assuming somehow it's not botting, something that open ended would be almost impossible to balance in any meaningful way. The entire reason things like ship fitting are so tightly constrained by rules and restrictions is because without those the game balance goes off the rails *very* quickly.
I could probably come up with more, but "botting" and "impossible to balance" are some mountain sized issues so what more do you need in a "no"? |
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6459
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Posted - 2017.05.08 04:59:47 -
[21] - Quote
Zabo Achasse wrote:I don't understand what you guys mean.
A satellite is simply an example of the sort of thing that can be done. Perhaps there is a way to implement satellites in a fun and interesting way which might involve setting up orbits and all sorts of stuff but my idea is not the satellite.
My idea is that players are given the ability to make electrical circuits and to modify electrical items that have electrical circuits, possibly simplifying more complex modules. You seem to have taken my suggestions for what players could do with it, and made it into it's own proposal.
What you appear to be suggesting is, I think, impossible. The number of possible permutations would rise very rapidly even a small number of electronic devices. CCP would need to code in for all of these permutations even the ones not used or rarely used. Thus, it would place heavy demands on Dev time. And I'm not sure about all the programming and its effects on the game itself.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6459
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Posted - 2017.05.08 05:13:28 -
[22] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Zabo Achasse wrote:If we assume that you are able to build circuits in the same manner as you can in real life, it means that you can make any circuit that exists in real life.
That is a big thing. It will mean that eve is turing-complete.
It depends how far ccp would be willing to implement it, but you could have whole ships wired up and modified to go-faster by players, with their own custom configurations of circuitboards, power supplies and processors.
So it's basically rigs, but much more of a nightmare to balance? And can you please explain how a circuit you or I could make in real life is going to affect an antimatter reactor, plasma thrusters or a 200mm machine gun that fires miniature nuclear bombs?
Not just that, but with many possible permutations (if the order of the "circuits" matters) or combinations (if order of the circuits do not). With rigs my guess is CCP said, lets create some rigs. So they sat down and worked on a list and the inputs (some of which I'm assuming are these "circuits"). But what is being proposed is far, far more open ended. Players could take the "circuits" portion of the rigs "recipe" and start creating their own "recipes" creating de novo rigs that previously have not existed. And it could be even more broad than rigs. It could be modules too. After all, here is the list of things needed to build a hammerhead.
Particle Accelerator Unit, Guidance System, Robotics, R.A.M. - Robotics Morphite.
If by "curcuits" we are talking about the first four, what happens if we swap out parts, what do we get then? Or we open up guidance systems?
The thing is it becomes very complicated, very demanding and could have all sorts of implications we simply cannot foresee--i.e. it could be very unbalancing. For example, new circuits for things like having drones return to the drone bay when they take x% or more shield damage? How about a warning indicator that you are out of ammo. Or a new circuit so the guns automatically resume firing once reloaded. Or a satellite that sits there and warns me when there is gate fire. Now I can rat and watch Netflix with all the benefits of staring at local.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6459
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Posted - 2017.05.08 05:23:25 -
[23] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Oh man, so many reasons this is a *terrible* idea.
First off, it's not simple by any means. There are entire companies built around programs for accurately simulating circuits of any complexity. This would be a *huge* development effort.
Beyond that, this would massively enable automation and, essentially, botting. There's literally no scenario I can think of where this is in any way gameplay related or useful where it's not just enabling botting.
Even beyond that, assuming somehow it's not botting, something that open ended would be almost impossible to balance in any meaningful way. The entire reason things like ship fitting are so tightly constrained by rules and restrictions is because without those the game balance goes off the rails *very* quickly.
I could probably come up with more, but "botting" and "impossible to balance" are some mountain sized issues so what more do you need in a "no"?
What the op is trying to describe, IMO, is adding innovation to the game. Letting players drive the innovation. This kind of thing is awesome in economies. This is why an economy can grow exponentially. Innovation lets you get the same amount of stuff with fewer inputs. Those freed up inputs can then be put to use making even more stuff. IRL it is awesome. In a game it could be a nightmare because it can lead to imbalances, and even if you fix one, players will be out there beavering away to find a new innovation that gives them an edge. And again, you could end up with an imbalance.
The Devs, at least IMO, are trying to create a compex version of rock-paper-scissors with a nice dash of politics and an entire economy build around it. This proposal will give the innovative the edge and everyone will be chasing that and trying to copy it. The system would have to quite open so that when an innovate player or player(s) came up with something then other players would try to copy it and/or find their own alternative solution. In theory, it sounds great and in it's own way is rather EVE-like. But I just can't see how this could be made operational in a video game...but maybe I am wrong.
And yes, it could very well lead to more bot like playing. I design "circuits" that make it so I am even less engaged with the game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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